Needle in a Haystack

[Zon]

I have been in the USA now for 3 months, and I have to say - somewhat surprisingly - I could be "happy" living and dating women only here.   (notice I did not say VERY HAPPY


But the truth is I have meet some spectacular women in 30's.  I picked up a fashion model in her late 20's, and that was a surprise.  It was the first time I have been with a woman and thought to myself: "This person is too young for me." I fell in love with a Russian girl (again), but fortunately that only lasted for a night.   In all these cases, there was baggage and the situation was imperfect.

BUT, as I reflect on my dating life in South America ... that was imperfect too!    It was easier.  In Colombia most men have a jump on the situation - a positive handicap.   The biggest thing that makes men's brains turn to poop is feminine youth and beauty.  These things are more rare in the USA (and more valued).   In Colombia, it is not a big deal to find an 8 or 9.   To find a 9 or 10 with brains, and a good character, and no baggage, and coming from a good family - THAT IS A NEEDLE IN A HAYSTACK.


An Interesting point - I met my former wife last week (medical emergency).  I remain very fond of her.  It was interesting for me to notice that we maintain a unique close connection.  I wonder if this is the product of a "young love".  The type of thing that is only created with two people, of the same age, travel through life in formative times.   It is different than the relationships I have had in the past 4 years.   


Nowadays, I date women that a 13 - 25 years younger than me.   In these relationships, in some ways, I am more of a "tour guide" ... I have traveled down these roads before, and am with women who are experiencing many things for the first time.   Of course, there are times where a woman has been my tour guide too - but the dynamic is largely different.  For me, there is a resulting detachment, or at least a slight distance, as a result of this. Perhaps this is only a natural side affect? 


In any case, my point is ...  the IDEAL RELATIONSHIP that most of us seek only exists in our heads.

[Brazilophile]

In any case, my point is ...  the IDEAL RELATIONSHIP that most of us seek only exists in our heads.

Strongly agreed!  The goal is to find a partner as close to the ideal we imagine as is practically feasible.  We compare the potential increase in happiness, from finding a partner closer to our ideal than our current partner, to the decrease in happiness we will feel when we dump the current partner and search for that more ideal one.  It is not always easy to make that calculation.

[fathertime]

I have been in the USA now for 3 months, and I have to say - somewhat surprisingly - I could be "happy" living and dating women only here.   (notice I did not say VERY HAPPY

you could probably be 'very happy'....i saw a spectacular looking american woman this evening around 35 years old and she was with a complete dork whom she dwarfed....and he must have been at least 45 years old...

An Interesting point - I met my former wife last week (medical emergency).  I remain very fond of her.  It was interesting for me to notice that we maintain a unique close connection.  I wonder if this is the product of a "young love".  The type of thing that is only created with two people, of the same age, travel through life in formative times.   It is different than the relationships I have had in the past 4 years.   

 

well i've found that you have to vary your love style a bit....what worked when you had a woman of the same age and background isn't always what a much younger woman from another culture would be interested in.   i'm sure you have figured it out by now.  you are decades past a young love so time to get real and be happy you have some good options left! 


fathertime!

[htown]

BUT, as I reflect on my dating life in South America ... that was imperfect too!    It was easier.  In Colombia most men have a jump on the situation - a positive handicap.   The biggest thing that makes men's brains turn to poop is feminine youth and beauty.  These things are more rare in the USA (and more valued).   In Colombia, it is not a big deal to find an 8 or 9.   To find a 9 or 10 with brains, and a good character, and no baggage, and coming from a good family - THAT IS A NEEDLE IN A HAYSTACK.

I don't see why this would be like finding a "needle in a haystack".  I'd say try to associate with and make friends with the more educated, monied class of people in Colombia and there should be plenty of beautiful, smart, good-natured, coming from a good family women in that type of category.  Here in the US it might be more difficult for an older guy to get the attention of these younger, sophisticated beauties.  That's why Colombia is so attractive for gringos, it's easier to break into these social circles in latin countries because of the "gringo handicap".  Make friends with university students and then make friends with their friends and their friends' friends.  Expand your network.  Spend money.  Sponsor parties.  As your network grows you'll begin to meet young professionals with college degrees and the high-class hotties you're seeking will find you.  At least that's what I think anyway.


Oh yea, and I'd definitely not mention anything about being inolved in porn or sex-tourism.  Lol!

[maritime04]

Htown
 
That would require a level of committment No? like actually living there for more then a few months. Whats the gringo handicap?
 
and why all the number this or that you looking for a wife not a pair of shoes!!

[htown]

Maritime, I had read some of Zon's previous posts and he stated that he'd lived in Colombia for quite a few months, to the point where he said he actually had started speaking like a paisa, if I'm not mistaken.  I think he also said he partied at the trendy clubs like the rooftop charlee, so I'd think he was very close to some very top-notch Colombianas, meaning wealthy family, college educated, good morals, young, and gorgeous.


Gringo handicap?  I'd say the gringo handicap is that people in latin america are automatically attracted to gringos simply because they think we're all rich and they like our white european genes.  (I know we're not all rich, tall, white guys, I'm just speaking in general.)


The gringo handicap is the entire reason guys like me, you, and Zon go to places like Colombia in the first place.  The gringo handicap allows us to accomplish more in Colombia than we can in our own country.  It's the only reason this website exists.

"and why all the number this or that you looking for a wife not a pair of shoes!!"

Do you mean to ask why be so calculating in the search for a foreign companion from a third world country?  The whole thing is a numbers game.  If it wasn't we wouldn't be going from the richest country to the poorest countries in search of women.  It's all simple math, nothing more nothing less.[/size][/font]

[maritime04]

Well first you’re one of the few people who have actually admitted that money is one of the major factors in visiting and place like Colombia, where the majority are poor, and you are correct that there are many benefits to earning more money than the majority.
I do think that we tend to overestimate the effects of our purchasing power, there are allot of negative associations attached with being a gringo especially in Medellin, which is what Zon was trying to pass across before
Lately everyone is obsessed with wealthy top-notch young gorgeous educated girls, I hate to break your bubble but you have better chance of hooking up with Lindsey loahan then any of those truly elite Colombian women, do you honestly think those women want to be seen with a gringo? Especially considering that every gringo in Colombia is seen mostly as
1.       Sex tourist
2.       Drug tourist
Most gringo’s confuse wealthy Colombians with Colombians just getting buy, or barely surviving, as the middle class in Colombia is slowly growing, and let’s face it it’s a country of have allots and have not’s. The jealousy and envy I saw in illears is so out of control you can dress up and street girl from 53 degriffe in studio F clothes and say she is from envigado and studies in EAFIT and TADA top-notch colombiana, most gringos I am sorry to say lack Spanish and could not tell the difference from a barrio accent Spanish or the French language.
I like math and I really like simple math, so let’s use some simple math, Why would any young women who studies at EAFIT, is a member of the top 10% of Colombia’s whom are gorgeous from good families date a gringo? What exactly would they have to gain from that? Interesting conversation? Social acceptance? Great dancing? Common culture? Seems to me there are all negatives issues here when you look at it, unless the gringo spoke excellent Spanish, looked like a local, was in her age group, and was very wealthy himself. Is that what we are talking about.
No what we are talking about are guys like Zon who have a fantasy, and are trying desperately to live it any way they can even if they have to lie to themselves. Jealousy and envy will make people do just about anything.
Bottom line is the really successful and wealthy Colombian women like laura Acuna, Jessica cediel, Katherine escobar, Angelica Blandon(ç= SHAWING!!!) Will never go out with Zon or any gringo you can find at the Charlie roof top bar, because these women live in a world of their own, and would never date a gringo!Lets be honest too they only want women who look like those gals, and can pretend to be upper socialites so they can feel better about themselves for flying all the way to Colombia to get girls
!!!!!!
And…
What I meant by “the numbers” is 10 or 8 or 7 the way we categorize women in general, seems silly especially when looking for a life partner and wife. That type of thinking is limiting, and leads to bad judgment.

[htown]

Very insightful post maritime04.  You're probably right, an aging gringo probably doesn't have much chance at getting a 25-30 year old hottie who's family is in the top 10% income bracket, even with his gringo handicap.  Especially in Medellin.  BUT, a guy like Zon might have a good chance at a 25-30 year old hottie who's family in the top 20% income bracket in a Colombian city that isn't flooded with gringos searching for women and drugs.  Say maybe Bucaramanga, Pereira, Cucuta, or even Cali.  Hell, Colombia isn't the only latin country with beautiful debutantes.  One could probably do pretty good in Argentina, Mexico, Chile, etc.

[Zon]

M4 = "Why would any young women who studies at EAFIT, is a member of the top 10% of Colombia’s whom are gorgeous from good families date a gringo? What exactly would they have to gain from that? Interesting conversation? Social acceptance? Great dancing? Common culture? Seems to me there are all negatives issues here when you look at it, unless the gringo spoke excellent Spanish, looked like a local, was in her age group, and was very wealthy himself. Is that what we are talking about.   No what we are talking about are guys like Zon who have a fantasy, and are trying desperately to live it any way they can even if they have to lie to themselves. Jealousy and envy will make people do just about anything.
Bottom line is the really successful and wealthy Colombian women like laura Acuna, Jessica cediel, Katherine escobar, Angelica Blandon(ç= SHAWING!!!) Will never go out with Zon or any gringo you can find at the Charlie roof top bar, because these women live in a world of their own, and would never date a gringo!Lets be honest too they only want women who look like those gals, and can pretend to be upper socialites so they can feel better about themselves for flying all the way to Colombia to get girls."

A little normalcy please ...

Movie stars and beauty queens are a gigantic pain in the ass in every country - IMO.   I try to stay away from perfect 10's - 9's too, for what it's worth.    I am completely happy with a real human being that is an 8 - or 7 ... on the physical scale.   That is still a very very beautiful woman, and without the pressure, envy, and constant problems extreme beauty almost always causes.

Wealthy - truly wealthy - families in Central and South America are just like the Hamptons and Palm Beach.  Albiet, with different inclinations and favorite topics.    This is not my target group, and never has been.

When I have stated that I would like to find a woman from a nice family, not poor or desperate ... that is what I have meant.  There are plenty more of these than movie stars an beauty queens. 

[maritime04]

HTown, again props for being honest and knowing what it’s about and why we go to Colombia. I would tell anybody that going after this fantasy of top-notch Colombians is a waste of time, especially if you’re a 40-50 year old guy regardless of income and style you’re fooling yourself If you think you can score with 20 year olds with money.  25-30, these guys want 22 year old coeds still in school!!
Like you said its best to aim little lower in the money category and be more realistic in the age group, and find a women who is attractive and a good match as well as good person. Regardless of city this can be done, it’s just that in Medellin has become a joke, filled with 1000 wise guys chasing a nickel down the street!
Again zon your buddy says that most Colombians are dirt poor losers, I guess he only means males, because being female means you are given a stipend and allowance from the state, free education and a high paying job too. When you say that there are ample women whom are not poor but not rich, what exactly are talking about? You want to meet a women from a good family who is not desperate, where do you think you have better odds of meeting a women like this, Colombia or Florida?

[fathertime]

..

Movie stars and beauty queens are a gigantic pain in the ass in every country - IMO.   I try to stay away from perfect 10's - 9's too, for what it's worth.     

Ha that is a good one Zon...you 'try' to stay away from the movie stars because they are all pounding on your door begging to spend time with you right?   Come on man, get real!  You having difficulty finding any suitable woman in colombia, but you are rejecting 10's and 9's in all the other countries!   That sounds very believable.    [size=78%]  [/size]


Fathertime! 


Fathertime! 

[Fuzzyone]

Ha that is a good one Zon...you 'try' to stay away from the movie stars because they are all pounding on your door begging to spend time with you right?   Come on man, get real!  You having difficulty finding any suitable woman in colombia, but you are rejecting 10's and 9's in all the other countries!   That sounds very believable.    [size=78%]  [/size]


Fathertime! 


Fathertime!

  Maybe he has that bar sitting too high or maybe its who he hangs out with.

[maritime04]

He does not know what he wants, but he defiantly knows what he does not want is a wife.
We are supposed to believe that you aimlessly walk around through life with ZERO agenda or motive especially in regards to finding a girlfriend, Life partner or wife. I call B.S.
You like meeting and dating younger women, WHO DOESNT, but your motivation is simple To enjoy the opposite sex either physically or intellectually, I think you being in Colombia means its more physical then you care to admit. By the nature of the environment there, there culture you can do those things which you cannot in your home country or any country where the quality of life is more equal to the US and let’s admit it Colombia’s social standards of behavior which also helps, as Calipor or “super player-stud, leaves the bed wet with women juice” says Colombia is the only country where you can have 3 girlfriends whom do not know about each other; what he neglects to say is those 3 girlfriends could give a rats ass about each other because they are also busying juggling 4-5 other boyfriends. Only in Colombia!! 

[whitey]

HTown, again props for being honest and knowing what it’s about and why we go to Colombia. I would tell anybody that going after this fantasy of top-notch Colombians is a waste of time, especially if you’re a 40-50 year old guy regardless of income and style you’re fooling yourself If you think you can score with 20 year olds with money.  25-30, these guys want 22 year old coeds still in school!!

Maritime, I think you've set yourself up a straw man argument here.  Maybe I missed it, but I don't recall anyone saying that wealthy estrato 6 women in there 20's are a desirable or attainable target for your average gringo in his 40's.

When you say that there are ample women whom are not poor but not rich, what exactly are talking about? You want to meet a women from a good family who is not desperate, where do you think you have better odds of meeting a women like this, Colombia or Florida?

This sounds exactly like my wife, her sister, and most of her friends to me.  Middle class (by Colombian standards), with parents that may be either lower or upper middle class, depending on the situation.  These are often women who have worked their way through university.

Bump it up a notch, and you have my buddy's dating pool of upper middle class professional women who are from upper middle class families.  My buddy is in his late forties, pretty good looking guy, good income and flexible career, and good Spanish ... so it is not hard for him.

I think there are many (certainly more than enough) women in these classes available for guys who are interested and put in some time and effort.

[maritime04]

Whitey
 
I do not think you can comment much, as i recall your wife is the only Colombian women you have dated? Your experience with Colombian women is limited to only 1, your wife who was introduced to you by a friend if i am not mistaken. How exactly does this give you a valid opinion on looking for or finding a wife or girlfriend when you never had to do it?
 
I do not mean to be rude, just making a point. your wife seems a good match for you 47 with 34, these guys are talking about women in their 20's from wealthy families and being older then yourself. Does that make any sense? Many of them never bothered to take Spanish classes or study anything before coming down as you did.
 
I think you are giving a wrong impression of Colombia, when you say it’s easy to find middle class Colombian women to date, as the country is poor and many people live in poverty, it would be a bit rude to visit Colombia demanding only to interact with its minority wealthy do you not think so.
 
I could not imagine telling some women I met in a park, or local concert there; sorry I cannot date you I assumed that because you were well dressed and went to college that you lived in estrato 3-4 or above, I do not date women from barrio popular or low estratos like where your family comes from. I would never start off a conversation or a date, asking where she worked, how much she made, where her family lives, if she owns a car or a home, or has to support her family. If a Colombian women started off in the first two dates with questions like these what would we say about her, what judgments would you form?
I think you guys often forget the basics of life in Colombia, the minimum wage there is about 500,000 COP per month, and we are talking about wages in 20,000 to 30,000 per day. MANY people work for less then that, Colombia has about 45 million people with 50% living in poverty. It seems to me to be extremely arrogant to enter this country with expectations of getting involved with only people of means and some form of wealth, it’s like going to red lobster not only looking for Mexican food, but demanding it be the best quality Mexican food around. If money a good paying job, and college education is so important why would you choose Colombia in the first place? Sometimes these guys here sound like small spoiled children demanding not only younger, hotter wives but college educated and self supporting ones too.
Listen life is not going to hand you everything you want; you have to pick and choose what is really important to you, and for me money, job, wealthy family did not matter as much as other qualities. There are too many guys running around Colombia day dreaming….Colombians have allot more going for them then jobs, and money or their looks you need only take the time and find it.

[Micky]

I wanted to stay away from this topic,  the MAIN reason - The "I want to find a women that is - from a wealthy family,  educated,  gorgeous,  young,  top 10% of Colombians -  theme.
 

First -  Unless you yourself are more/less of the same composition,  I think that is some very foolish thinking,  or expectations.  Off the chart foolish.
 

Second - All of these are,  in themselves,  are absolute indicators of not much.  Point being,  I know a few people from very wealthy families,  that made their money from killing people.  We probably all know people that have a classic education and they are dumber than bricks.  Beauty,  whether man or women,  if they are self absorbed with the depth of cardboard,  nobody wants to be around them,  physical beauty will only carry anyone a short distance if they do not have character to go along with it.
 

I think that when these things were said they were not meant to be a "stand alone"  criterion,  just the way some of it came out "looked" pretty foolish,  to me anyway.
 

M4 has a young mans way of jumping on people and a short fuse,  age will soften that.  That being said,  I think that he has pointed out many things here that are worth some deep thought.  He is the OPPOSSITE of the agency rhetoric.  Although I do believe he is a tad hard,  I also understand that he has seen way too many "gringo jackasses"  up on the hill and it turns his stomach,  I do NOT blame him for that.
 

Zon gets a ton of heat,  some rightfully so,  some of it is just B.S..  I think that Zon has come a very long way.  He has taken Spanish classes,  dancing classes and I think that he has truly tried to be a "better" gringo over the time he has been coming here.  EVERYBODY likes,  and needs,  a little encouragement now and then,  I give him props for trying to become a better man.
 

Whitey -  Easy to say "well he got lucky".  There is not such thing as luck.  He met a women and they both did the things that were necessary for their relationship to develop.  He is a positive person and does not get down on many at all.  You can bet that there were times that were hard,  maybe some doubts,  but he went forward and MADE it happen.  OK,  so he did not "date" twenty Colombian as before he met his wife,  so what?  He still knows something of the culture and sure knows plenty of guys who have been down the "Colombian Highway".  Why would one NOT want the opinion of a guy that has been there, knows a few things and is positive by nature?
 

I have said more than a few times,  too much bashing here.  We give our thoughts and opinions,  someone has a different view and states it.  That is ALL good and healthy,  but damn,  the endless slinging of the crap,  back and forth,  back and forth,  back and forth,  serves no good purpose to the many.  Like it will ever stop.
 

Micky
 

[Jedimaster]

Gringo handicap?  I'd say the gringo handicap is that people in latin america are automatically attracted to gringos simply because they think we're all rich and they like our white european genes.  (I know we're not all rich, tall, white guys, I'm just speaking in general.)


The gringo handicap is the entire reason guys like me, you, and Zon go to places like Colombia in the first place.  The gringo handicap allows us to accomplish more in Colombia than we can in our own country.  It's the only reason this website exists.

"and why all the number this or that you looking for a wife not a pair of shoes!!"

Do you mean to ask why be so calculating in the search for a foreign companion from a third world country?  The whole thing is a numbers game.  .

Htown,
 
So women in Latin America are automatically attracted to gringos no matter what they look like?.

[Jedimaster]

This sounds exactly like my wife, her sister, and most of her friends to me.  Middle class (by Colombian standards), with parents that may be either lower or upper middle class, depending on the situation.  These are often women who have worked their way through university.

Bump it up a notch, and you have my buddy's dating pool of upper middle class professional women who are from upper middle class families.  My buddy is in his late forties, pretty good looking guy, good income and flexible career, and good Spanish ... so it is not hard for him.

I think there are many (certainly more than enough) women in these classes available for guys who are interested and put in some time and effort.

Whitey,
 
I disagree with that last sentence based on my experience in Colombia.  I met over 20 women there and I'd say almost all were poor.  Most of the women that I met were flaky and insincere and many were interesadas.  So I've got to disagree with you when you say that there are "more than enough women in these classes available" for guys going down to Colombia.
 
Now if you know tons of single, middle class, educated and attractive women in Colombia then perhaps you need to start a dating/ marriage agency there!

[V_Man]

What Micky said. + 1!

[beginthebeguin]

I have been on this board long enough now to know that Micky is well within his bounds to 'clear the air' once and a while. Well stated Micky. Look most of us here, 'ceptin' for the thread trolls are STILL learning. The Latin American culture has a 5 or 6 generational jump on the Anglo culture here in the West. That takes a lot of understanding to grasp before we start making judgement calls. Ever stop and think what the west's Anglo culture will be like in 5 or 6 generations?

[Jeff S]

The Latin American culture has a 5 or 6 generational jump on the Anglo culture here in the West. That takes a lot of understanding to grasp before we start making judgement calls. Ever stop and think what the west's Anglo culture will be like in 5 or 6 generations?

5 or 6 generational jump on what? No comprendo.

[Dan]

I wanted to stay away from this topic,  the MAIN reason - The "I want to find a women that is - from a wealthy family,  educated,  gorgeous,  young,  top 10% of Colombians -  theme.
 

First -  Unless you yourself are more/less of the same composition,  I think that is some very foolish thinking,  or expectations.  Off the chart foolish.
 

Second - All of these are,  in themselves,  are absolute indicators of not much.  Point being,  I know a few people from very wealthy families,  that made their money from killing people.  We probably all know people that have a classic education and they are dumber than bricks.  Beauty,  whether man or women,  if they are self absorbed with the depth of cardboard,  nobody wants to be around them,  physical beauty will only carry anyone a short distance if they do not have character to go along with it.
 

I think that when these things were said they were not meant to be a "stand alone"  criterion,  just the way some of it came out "looked" pretty foolish,  to me anyway.
 

M4 has a young mans way of jumping on people and a short fuse,  age will soften that.  That being said,  I think that he has pointed out many things here that are worth some deep thought.  He is the OPPOSSITE of the agency rhetoric.  Although I do believe he is a tad hard,  I also understand that he has seen way too many "gringo jackasses"  up on the hill and it turns his stomach,  I do NOT blame him for that.
 

Zon gets a ton of heat,  some rightfully so,  some of it is just B.S..  I think that Zon has come a very long way.  He has taken Spanish classes,  dancing classes and I think that he has truly tried to be a "better" gringo over the time he has been coming here.  EVERYBODY likes,  and needs,  a little encouragement now and then,  I give him props for trying to become a better man.
 

Whitey -  Easy to say "well he got lucky".  There is not such thing as luck.  He met a women and they both did the things that were necessary for their relationship to develop.  He is a positive person and does not get down on many at all.  You can bet that there were times that were hard,  maybe some doubts,  but he went forward and MADE it happen.  OK,  so he did not "date" twenty Colombian as before he met his wife,  so what?  He still knows something of the culture and sure knows plenty of guys who have been down the "Colombian Highway".  Why would one NOT want the opinion of a guy that has been there, knows a few things and is positive by nature?
 

I have said more than a few times,  too much bashing here.  We give our thoughts and opinions,  someone has a different view and states it.  That is ALL good and healthy,  but damn,  the endless slinging of the crap,  back and forth,  back and forth,  back and forth,  serves no good purpose to the many.  Like it will ever stop.
 

Micky

Nice post Micky. Well stated.

- Dan

[htown]

Htown,
 
So women in Latin America are automatically attracted to gringos no matter what they look like?.

No, not 100% of the time, but they are WAY more attracted to gringos than homegrown American-born latinas and American women in general.  I can only speak from my own experience backpacking and spending alot of time hanging out in Mexico.  I've never been to Colombia. 


The time I spent in Mexico was basically non-stop partying, mostly with the backpacker hostel crowd and local Mexican college students.  I saw some of the DORKIEST, MOST GOOFY LOOKING germans, canadians, and americans hook up with decent looking mexican chicks.  I'm talking about guys that wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell at pulling the same chicks in the states.  I'd heard about how mexican chicks in mexico go crazy over gringos but until I saw it with my own eyes I wouldn't have believed it.  I mean it was bizarre.  I did pretty good myself eventhough I'm latino-american and I don't have the obvious gringo features.  Actually I did just as good with the german, canadian, and australian chicks as I did with the mexicanas so I don't know what that tells you.  Go figure.




Maritime has some valid points but I still think that an older gringo who takes good care of himself, dresses stylish, HAS ALOT OF MONEY, and some charm to go along with it can  get him a college-degreed, 27 year old beauty.  That same gringo should be able to the same thing here in the states, BUT, when you figure in the GRINGO HANDICAP he is a able to attain a little bit better in a latin american country.  Does that really seem so far fetched?


Oh allow me to add...Maritime you seem to stress how dirt poor colombia is but I'd think that there's a decent size middle class there.  I know quite a few colombians here in my hometown and almost all of them are middle-class to upper-middle class.  I don't think they were dirt poor in colombia and just magically became educated and refined when they landed in the US.  Nor are any of them millionaires driving bentley and ferraris.  I could understand if we were talking about nicaragua or el salvador, but I'd think colombia has a somewhat decent economy, maybe comparable to mexico.  What do you guys think?  Again, I've never been to colombia but I've been doing ALOT of research for my trip in April.

[Micky]

These are the numbers,  which are just indicators of a countries wealth not personal income.  The numbers from the "estratos"  are Colombias ratings for income levels,  the numbers are percentage of population in each estrato.  You can probably guess that the people from the lower end are not the ones getting visas to the U.S..  The bottom half in Colombia makes up over 90% of the population.
 
GDP per capita wealth
 
# 8 - U.S. - $ 48,147
# 82 - Colombia - $ 10,155
 
Colombia Estratos -
1 - 22.3%
2 - 41.2%
3 - 27.1%
4 - 6.3 %
5 - 1.9%
6 - 1.2%
 
Micky

[maritime04]

Listen I will admit I am little on the aggressive said with my points; this does not make them any less worthy of response. I do not see what the big deal is as I really do not care if a 60 year old man goes out with a 20 year old, this is his business; what I am talking about are the national factors that allowed this to happen and it will help you in your search and understanding Colombian culture. To ignore these facts and carry on as you were simply in the United States except 10 times richer is dangerous.
Htown what you say does not sound so far-fetched when looking at it through gringo eyes, except we are talking about Colombia. Does that concept seem so strange, that culturally these people are different, see the world differently and react to the same things differently.
I was not trying to be rude to whitey (only zon and calipro super player-stud leaves the bed wet with women juice), I respect his achievement especially the long distance relationship, but my point remains he is commenting on finding an abundance of middle class college educated women with good paying jobs, as if it was a simple issue, if pointing out his lack of experience in this conversation is rude, I apologize.
I agree with mickey because we are starting to go around in circles with this, debating what middle class is, what a good income is for Colombia ect…
Mickey was smart to post some numbers so we can get a good look; GDP per capita is just GDP divided by the number of residents, it is not a measure of income, but usually an indication of quality of life or standard of living, for Colombia I disagree with it, but it’s something to look at.
Zon labled this thread needle in a haystack, as to say it is extremely difficult to find a true companion amongst all the crap in Colombia, I will agree with him. One must first sit down and think about what you want and how you want to go about and get it. I for one instead of wasting countless hours inspecting each individual piece of hey, would use a large magnet. The point I am trying to make is the best approach comes from understanding what you want and coming up with a good plan to get it.