Robbed in Bogota!

[V_Man]

My girl's father is 71. He was robbed in Bogota while withdrawing his monthly pension. There was no violence but now he has no income for the month. So much for the Chistmas spirit! He is of course upset and sad about it.

They will manage but my girl can't do a great deal to help because Jan is always a slow month income wise for her.

I have not been asked to help and I know that I will not be asked to help but do you think I should offer?

I am not concerned about a scam but I am concerned that I can't be seen to be an ATM to help them out of life's problems. If we were married then yes I would offer to help. I've stayed in his house and all that but the reality is that his daughter and I are only novios. In face time terms we still have a long way to go.

[Ray]

 
Unless you are the one who robbed him, I wouldn't offer to help with money.
 
This sounds like a family problem and you aren't family.
 
 
Are you sure that you aren't being "indirectly" asked to help?
 
 
Ray
 
 

[V_Man]

Are you sure that you aren't being "indirectly" asked to help?

I've been down this path with her before. No. I am defintely not being asked indirectly to help.
I'm being asked indirectly to sympathise only.

[whitey]

That's a tough one V_Man if it's pretty early in the relationship ... I'm sure I'd feel torn.

I guess some factors going into your decision would be:

- how long you've know your novia
- how serious you are
- what your plans for the future are at this stage
- how well you know her family, how much time you spent with them, did you live in their home for awhile and contribute (or not) to expenses
- how badly will this set back their family (no food for the month ... or just having to pinch pennies for awhile)

I don't see the harm in sending $100.000 if you are serious about her, spent time with the family, and this would be a pretty severe setback for them.

We are often very strict on the board here about sending money (and for good reason - ESPECIALLY before meeting the woman).  Often it's coached as ... well, a Colombian guy would never do that ... or ... what would they do if you're not around?

In my experience, if a Colombia boyfriend had the money, chances are he would help out in some way.

[mudd]

- how long you've know your novia
- how serious you are
- what your plans
for the future are at this stage
- how well you know her family, how much
time you spent with them, did you live in their home for awhile and contribute
(or not) to expenses
- how badly will this set back their family (no food for
the month ... or just having to pinch pennies for awhile)

I don't see the
harm in sending $100.000 if you are serious about her, spent time with the
family, and this would be a pretty severe setback for them.

i agree, but depends on the above, plus, make sure this doesnt turn into a re-occuring theme, " need help/$ , ask the  gringo"
in medellin, this is the normal " family scam"  family needs $$, come up with a story for  the gringo bf  lol

[Gato4Astrid]

V-man


She hasn't asked you, but it doesn't mean she isn't expecting you to offer the help.


WORST CASE SCERNIO:  She is waiting for you to offer help by not asking you for money.




My ex-novia (ex-prometida) was robbed about 3 years ago for $130,000 when she walked on the way to pay for water rates.  She had a black eye.  I saw her in MSN 2 days after she was robbed.  She was too embarrassing for me to see her black eyes.  She explained how she was robbed.   I felt sorry for her but at the same time, I had my doubts.   I caught her in Facebook that night she was "supposedly" robbed and had her "blackberry" installed.   In the end, I sent her $130,000 for the amount she had lost.   I had the feeling that she had bought a blackberry phone when the money was supposed to pay for the water/electric/gas bills.


4 months later, a friend of her friend wrote me a letter in the Facebook, telling me about her.   She got the black eye from her "boyfriend" at night club because he found out that I am the boyfriend!  lol




Now, it is not your fault that your novia's father was robbed, but if you were a Colombiano, would you send her the money?  It is the real question!!

[whitey]

Now, it is not your fault that your novia's father was robbed, but if you were a Colombiano, would you send her the money?  It is the real question!!

Yes, but what is the answer?

My wife has a relative going out with a colombiano from an "apparently" well off family, and yet the guy leeches every cent he can from his girlfriend who is modestly employed.  Supposedly most of her salary ends up going to this guy.

Then again, my wife has a couple friends and relatives who are going out with colombianos who live in the US.  These guys are sending major money to maintain their girlfriends in Barranquilla, one of which is apparently not faithful.  I'm talking about iphones, school, vacations (without him), etc.

So ... which kind of colombiano are you talking about?  Or could you possibly mean a more normal colombiano who might help out his girlfriend's family a bit if he could and if he believed she was not a scammer?

V_man doesn't strike me as a papaya ... but you don't always know a woman as well as you think.  Either way, a learning opportunity.

[mambocowboy]

VMan, I don't know how far along you are with your lady friend (engaged/K-1?). If it were me and I were engaged I'd help out. What you have is  an opportunity to show concern for her family....  If she is scamming you are going to find out eventually. Unfortunately Gato got scammed but it looks like he's found a better woman for him...At any rate, there are Colombianos who do help their girlfriend's families when they can...

[V_Man]

We are not engaged and such a move would be at least 6 months away minimum. We both have serious intentions but we are only boyfriend & girlfriend until we have more living together time. I have known her 6 months. A little over 2 weeks in actual living together time.
I lived with her family in her fathers house almost a week in total. During that time I did not pay for any food or drinks consumed in the house. Well OK some donuts.

The father himself has bought me food and a small present. I did take the whole family out to a top restaurant. I bought them all small gifts and I took the nephew out a few times on me.

I have been very generous to my girl but only on things that are related to building a relationship between us.

I discussed Christmas presents with my girl and was told to either send myself or else send nothing.

My girl had some equipment for her work fail and I did not offer to replace it. A month later when she was going on about something she wanted (expensive) I asked her if this was her way of asking me to pay for it. Well!! She hit the roof! "When did I ever ask you for money? Blah blah blah." I am now to consider it clear that she does not want money from me. The next time she talked about something money related she explictly spelt out that she was not asking for money to re-enforce that message. Her sister has had a couple of medical emergencies. There was never any suggestion that I would help out. Likewise with Dad's robbery, I'm confident there is no expectation on me from any of them.

They all work except for the ol'man who has his pension. Nobody is going to starve or not be able to get to work.

If they ever did need money, they have their networks of 200 friends and family like every other Colombian family. Like they always had before I appeared.

If I do offer to help it is not guarnteed it will even be accepted. I might even get the "I'm insulted" response again.

I really am not concerned about being scammed. If I am ever scammed by her I'll find out eventually. As for being a papaya I guess this sort of depends on your definition. I am not concerned about being a papaya as such but yes I don't want to be seen as the rich gringo that is going to solve the problems in their lives. Life is difficult in Colombia and there is always going to be some hic up. Obviously they don't have the same capacity to deal with unplanned problems.

If and when I marry into the family it is going to be far more complex but there is a long way to go before we are there.

Having said all the above I do feel a little torn simply because I would like to help. They are good people and clearly it is going to be a difficult month for them all now.

[Researcher]

   It's simple: Don't offer to help.


   Researcher

[V_Man]

Researcher, I know you are right. It's just not natural for me to not help people that matter to me. If my mate's father needed help here I would offer to help. Hence it's sort of artifical not to help my girl friend's father.

[stnmasn]

   It's simple: Don't offer to help.


   Researcher

[whitey]

Sounds like a good woman and a good family, V_Man.

If you do decide to help out in some way, one idea might be to buy a gift card from Exito.  I think you can buy it online, but don't know about the logistics.  Anyhow, looks like the family will do fine no matter what you decide.

[V_Man]

That's a good idea Whitey. It's a bit more tactful than money.
I wonder what the logistics are.
Of course it means standing at the information desk for a least an hour so it's not perhaps as toughtful as it first seems. Still it is worth considering.

[Gato4Astrid]

Sounds like a good woman and a good family, V_Man.

If you do decide to help out in some way, one idea might be to buy a gift card from Exito.  I think you can buy it online, but don't know about the logistics.  Anyhow, looks like the family will do fine no matter what you decide.

This?
http://www.exito.com/category/34_700000000000/Tarjeta-regalo/

[JasonA]

I don't know the Colombian culture like many of you do, but here's my 2 cents (that isn't even worth that much)....
"I lived with her family in her fathers house almost a week in total. During that time I did not pay for any food or drinks consumed in the house. Well OK some donuts. "
 
By allowing you to stay in his home, her father saved you more than that in hotel fees and food expenses. That was a kind and caring act on his part. You should return that kindness and caring by offering to help.
 
*Be careful of your wording to your girl. This is one of those situations that could win you major points with her or completely blow up in your face. I think that you should point out her father's kindness toward you before you offer to help. She may turn down your offer, but you will still score points with her (believe it or not guys, women keep score. they can't help it. it's on the second X chromosome!).
 
*By sending assistance (or at least offering), you will have a clear conscience with her and her father. You won't be wondering what they think of you. To me, that is worth $130.
 
* I believe in the "fool me once..." phrase. If it's a scam, it is better to find out sooner than later. If it starts to become a habit (asking you for money), again, it's better to see this early on.
 
* If you are a caring/help others type of person, then be that person. Don't hold back. While typing this post, this thought occurred to me.  Most of the guys on this board are sick of dealing with cold/bitter/spoiled westernized women, but are we any different? Yes, we need to be careful of getting scammed, but that doesn't mean that we should be cold or calloused. If we are, then we aren't much different than the women that we are tired of dealing with...      Sorry, didn't mean to get all deep there. Just something to think about.
 
Good luck, V_Man!  Let us know how things work out.
 
 
Oh, 1 more thing...   The gift card is a great idea IMO.
 
 
   

 
 

[Researcher]

     I can tell you from experience that if you start sending "help" you are potentially setting yourself up to be depended on regularly. "Poor folks" learn how to get by. They always have a financial crisis at hand. Yes, your lady sounds like she is a good one but even the good ones can end up giving in to the temptation of hitting you up financially. Don't do it, trust me on this one.

      Researcher

[Gato4Astrid]

I don't know the Colombian culture like many of you do, but here's my 2 cents (that isn't even worth that much)....
"I lived with her family in her fathers house almost a week in total. During that time I did not pay for any food or drinks consumed in the house. Well OK some donuts. "
 
By allowing you to stay in his home, her father saved you more than that in hotel fees and food expenses. That was a kind and caring act on his part. You should return that kindness and caring by offering to help.
   

I agree with you there 100% but like Researcher wrote - once you offer the help, you are potentially offer the help again - many times - in the future.

[Micky]

VM -
 

Whitey and I have talked about this before,  when it comes to the money issue here,  it is a difficult and slippery slope.  There are two poles here - One,  Colombianos that would,  and will,  take every coin that they can get from someone - The thought process is simply,  one has money,  they will hand it out,  they will give it to me,  I'll take it.  Two,  they have made it through life without help from outsiders and they will take care of things themselves.  This view is from "Gringos think that they are the last coke in the desert". ( When I asked "why coke?",  the answer was,  "because it is more popular than water ).

There exists,  in this Gringo/Colombiana relationships,  the money issue that does not exist if a Gringo were dating locally.  There is the hyper - is she after money question -   that is not a factor if one were staying within their own culture.  I am not advocating throwing caution to the wind,  but many times Gringos will MAKE the money issue bigger,  more important than it should be.

Separate fact from fiction,  not ALL that easy.  The normal list of "events" here - someone is sick,  in the hospital,  needs medicine,  doctor,  etc.,  lost my job,  robbed,  someone in the family needs money for something or the world will come to and end.  A list of BS,  EXCEPT that ALL of those things do happen here,  for real and with regular frequency (minus the world ending).

VM - your posts have always been pretty logical and sensible.  You know,  with a feeling in the mix,  the girl,  her Dad etc..  They will NOT die without your help,  but the question is this -  You send some cash,  your being played,  your a chump.  You do not send anything,  your not a chump,  but IF there is a true need there,  what does that say about YOU?

As I said,  it is not all that easy.  I have no answer,  that will of course only come from you.  The only thing that I agree with some guys is the NEVER send anything to someone that you have never been with,  other than that it is only the choice of the people involved.  So what is worse,  being a "chump" or being a person who lives in fear of being a "chump"?

Micky 
 　

[benjio]

VM -
 

Whitey and I have talked about this before,  when it comes to the money issue here,  it is a difficult and slippery slope.  There are two poles here - One,  Colombianos that would,  and will,  take every coin that they can get from someone - The thought process is simply,  one has money,  they will hand it out,  they will give it to me,  I'll take it.  Two,  they have made it through life without help from outsiders and they will take care of things themselves.  This view is from "Gringos think that they are the last coke in the desert". ( When I asked "why coke?",  the answer was,  "because it is more popular than water ).

There exists,  in this Gringo/Colombiana relationships,  the money issue that does not exist if a Gringo were dating locally.  There is the hyper - is she after money question -   that is not a factor if one were staying within their own culture.  I am not advocating throwing caution to the wind,  but many times Gringos will MAKE the money issue bigger,  more important than it should be.

Separate fact from fiction,  not ALL that easy.  The normal list of "events" here - someone is sick,  in the hospital,  needs medicine,  doctor,  etc.,  lost my job,  robbed,  someone in the family needs money for something or the world will come to and end.  A list of BS,  EXCEPT that ALL of those things do happen here,  for real and with regular frequency (minus the world ending).

VM - your posts have always been pretty logical and sensible.  You know,  with a feeling in the mix,  the girl,  her Dad etc..  They will NOT die without your help,  but the question is this -  You send some cash,  your being played,  your a chump.  You do not send anything,  your not a chump,  but IF there is a true need there,  what does that say about YOU?

As I said,  it is not all that easy.  I have no answer,  that will of course only come from you.  The only thing that I agree with some guys is the NEVER send anything to someone that you have never been with,  other than that it is only the choice of the people involved.  So what is worse,  being a "chump" or being a person who lives in fear of being a "chump"?

Micky 
 　

Preach Reverend Micki!!!!

[whitey]

Some great points in the last few posts.

I would be very interested to hear a woman's perspective on this if IV and BG would like to weigh in ...

[V_Man]

It's great to see that some of you realise this is not so black and white once you are involved with a girl and developed a tangable relationship. 

While all this is going on I have not been able to communicate with my girl as freely and easily as usual. This is because at that same time as this problem, their internet connection at home has stopped working. The repairman has failed to show up for several days. I mention all this because it has taken me a while to work out what exactly occured.

What happened is that the ATM had a skimmer on it. A clone of the father's ATM card was created and his bank account was emptied via ATMs on the other side of the city. He has been robbed of 3 months income. On the plus side there is a suggestion that the bank may eventually accept that this is a theft and he'll get his money back. The bank is taking their time but they are compling a report to show when and where all these transactions took place. The report will show quite clearly that these transactions are most out of character for him. So perhaps he will eventually get all or most of his money refunded by the bank.

My girl also has her own income worries at present so the timing is not good for them.

After explaining all this to me, she then appologised that she will not be able to contribute to some travel that we are planning later in the year!  (FYI I never imagined she was going to contribute to that expense even before all this occured. ) I think I got myself a gem!!!!

[Researcher]

 

VM -
Whitey and I have talked about this before,  when it comes to the money issue here,  it is a difficult and slippery slope. 
 

It is only as difficult as a guy wants to make it. It is a fact that many a relationship has been ruined when money is involved. It is common for longtime friendships to end because of money and money is in many top ten lists for reasons of divorce. Rule of thumb: keep money out of any relationship for as long as you can.

 

There are two poles here - One,  Colombianos that would,  and will,  take every coin that they can get from someone - The thought process is simply,  one has money,  they will hand it out,  they will give it to me,  I'll take it.
 

I agree. While there are women out there actively looking for someone to take advantage of, there are generous guys that come along and put themselves in a position to be taken advantage of. If a woman and/or her family aren't out to take advantage there is strong temptation here for them to do so.

 

 Two,  they have made it through life without help from outsiders and they will take care of things themselves.  This view is from "Gringos think that they are the last coke in the desert". ( When I asked "why coke?",  the answer was,  "because it is more popular than water ).
 

My view was always like this: They did make it before I came along and I wasn't going to be the "white knight" to rescue them. There always was crisis and there will always be crisis in their life. If I set myself up as a crutch for them there will be a strong chance for resentment to develop.

 

There exists,  in this Gringo/Colombiana relationships,  the money issue that does not exist if a Gringo were dating locally.  There is the hyper - is she after money question -   that is not a factor if one were staying within their own culture.
 

Bullsh!t. The money issue is always there and it is universal. I can't tell you how many gringas I dated that had maxed out credit cards. If you marry someone you are marrying their debt. One way or another you will be affected by it. About the only Gringo/Colombiana difference is whether or not she is looking for a green card only.

 

  I am not advocating throwing caution to the wind,  but many times Gringos will MAKE the money issue bigger,  more important than it should be.
 

The money issue is big. Like it or not. Just like I mentioned earlier money is a main cause for divorce and ruined relationships. Handle it wrong and you've got problems. It is important and big if you are marrying a woman who expects you to help support her family. You might want to get an idea of how much support she expects to send.

 

Separate fact from fiction,  not ALL that easy.  The normal list of "events" here - someone is sick,  in the hospital,  needs medicine,  doctor,  etc.,  lost my job,  robbed,  someone in the family needs money for something or the world will come to and end.  A list of BS,  EXCEPT that ALL of those things do happen here,  for real and with regular frequency (minus the world ending).
 

I agree. Saying someone was "robbed in Bogota" is like saying the "sun came up today". It is a frequent event. All the more reason not to offer up any help.

 

VM - your posts have always been pretty logical and sensible.  You know,  with a feeling in the mix,  the girl,  her Dad etc..  They will NOT die without your help,  but the question is this -  You send some cash,  your being played,  your a chump.  You do not send anything,  your not a chump,
 

That's not it at all. The question is: do you want money to enter into this relationship this early on.

 

 but IF there is a true need there,  what does that say about YOU?
 

Please, play me a sad tune here. If a guy is going to do any amount of wife hunting he better get used to this scenario. Besides, it says you are looking for a relationship not to be a Sugar Daddy.

 

As I said,  it is not all that easy.  I have no answer,  that will of course only come from you.  The only thing that I agree with some guys is the NEVER send anything to someone that you have never been with,  other than that it is only the choice of the people involved.  So what is worse,  being a "chump" or being a person who lives in fear of being a "chump"?

Micky 
 　

What is worse, having a relationship based on love and mutual attraction? or having a relationship based on money?
 

   VMan, it may not be exactly black and white but it is close. I can tell you that to a novice at the foreign wife hunting it is quite a grey area but I can tell you from years of experience of actually doing this: sending money causes problems more often than not. It really isn't a matter of what WILL happen as it is what POSSIBLY could happen. Sure, I could muddy the waters in an attempt to look like a sage on life but what I am saying is this whole venture is a risk. You decide how big a risk it is. Like I said I have seen sending money cause more problems than not. Maybe you will do it and things will be fine. My advice: play the odds so they aren't against you. You can listen to those who sit and "philosophize" or you can listen to someone who has been there, done that and has the T-shirt.


        Researcher

[Gato4Astrid]

Another thing from my ex-prometida.   She didn't ask me for any money for the 1st 3 months.  Once she asked me for the 1st time, the rest was easy .....   Apparently,  her friends pressurized her to ask me.  I was told.   As a matter of fact it was her ex-step daughter and her friends.

[Ray]

 
IMHO, a thoughtful, caring woman who had your best interest at heart would not put a friend in an uncomfortable position by telling him about family emergencies like this, where it should be obvious that he would worry about her welfare and want to help financially.
 
Personally, I would respect a friend who kept this kind of thing to herself so as not to cause me unnecessary worry and make me feel like a heel for not helping out.
 
You said she wanted only your sympathy, but sympathy can take many forms, including financial help in an emergency. By telling you all about her family's financial problems, hasn't she unwittingly involved you to the point of causing you to feel that this is now at least partially your problem? This is the only reason that I asked if perhaps she was indirectly asking you for financial help by involving you in the first place.
 
IF your relationship with her progresses and someday you marry her, THEN you will be part of her family and you can appropriately feel an obligation to help financially in family emergencies.
 
For your part at the present, if you really think it would hurt her pride and insult her to send money to cover their loss, then why not respect her feelings and drop the whole issue? Let her family deal with this in their own way. You aren't family.
 
 
Ray