The Philipino Over Seas Worker

[Bob_S]

There are only 10 countries on table 2 - what about the other 38 countries?
Only 4 out of the 11 SEA countries are on table 2 - what about the others?-
Furthermore table 2 is from 1990 to 1996 - that was from 22 to 16 years ago.
Yes The Philippines is last in ASEAN-5 but NOT in all of Asia or all of SEA.

The data presented in the study was probably limited in order to favor a particular agenda, but appears accurate enough to demonstrate some clear facts.
While the Phil's may not be the poorest of the poor, their economy has been clearly stagnant.  The true poorest of the poor are still largely poor with higher percentages of their populations living in poverty as shown in tables 3 & 4, their numbers have been declining over the past decade and should eventually drop below that of the Phil's if trends continue.  But the percentage in poverty in the RP has been virtually flat.


Zulu's hyperbole aside, he is largely correct about the RP being if not the worst at least among the worst economic performers in SEA, or FEA, or any regional grouping you'd care to lump then in with.


What I found particularly humorous was the report's recommendation that the way to improve the economy was to reduce governmental corruption.  Yeah, and monkeys might fly out of my butt.   

[thekfc]

The data presented in the study was probably limited in order to favor a particular agenda, but appears accurate enough to demonstrate some clear facts.
While the Phil's may not be the poorest of the poor, their economy has been clearly stagnant.  The true poorest of the poor are still largely poor with higher percentages of their populations living in poverty as shown in tables 3 & 4, their numbers have been declining over the past decade and should eventually drop below that of the Phil's if trends continue.  But the percentage in poverty in the RP has been virtually flat.


Zulu's hyperbole aside, he is largely correct about the RP being if not the worst at least among the worst economic performers in SEA, or FEA, or any regional grouping you'd care to lump then in with.


What I found particularly humorous was the report's recommendation that the way to improve the economy was to reduce governmental corruption.  Yeah, and monkeys might fly out of my butt.   

If you are to make a report/study about economic growth & poverty in a region but excludes the other poor nations in the region then your report world be an 'incomplete' - wouldn't it?  And it sure looks that way. Why did he excludes the other countries? 

Zulu said that the source is authoritative - ha ha. This report is just one man's view aka one man's opinion. Yes, the author is an economist and professor but he is also a columnist. And what do columnist offer; commentary and opinions - their personal point of view.

That report was not that of ADB nor was it commissioned by them - they just published it.  Why publish a an 'incomplete' study? Well people would publish anything to make a few $$$ as long as they put in a disclaimer, which they did.

Have anyone read the following on page 3?
The views expressed in this publication are those of the author and do not necessarily reflects the views and policies of the Asian Development Bank (ADB) or its Board of Governors or the governments they represent.
 
ADB does not guarantee the accuracy of the data included in this publication and accepts no responsibility for any consequence of their use.
 
By making any designation of or reference to a particular territory or geographic area, or by using the term “country” in this document, ADB does not intend to make any judgments as to the legal  or status of any territory or area.
 
It further goes to say:
This study was prepared by Cielito Habito………There are, no doubt, various shortcomings that remain in both substance and form, for which the author takes exclusive responsibility. The analyses, views, and opinions represented herein are those of the author and should not be represented as those of ADB or the institution he represents.

[z_k_g]

Kfc,

The 2010 study is comprehensive and not a simple statement of GDP values, population numbers, etc.

If you have a problem or question about their choice of data sets from whatever year, why don't you simply write them an email to question their findings and methodologies.

But, for whatever reason THEY chose these (1996) data sets, I didn't.  In fact, they mixed data sets from various years and from various trusted sourcesthe most recent being 2000-2005.

Their CONCLUSIONS were drawn in 2010 so that's whats relevant.

As far as the individual numbers that you and Robert have quoted, they are NOT relevant to the Conclusions of the study.

That's the value of a study, Raw data and values are crunched to produce METRICS, INDEXS, etc, supported with underlying STATISTICS.

When these numbers are crunched, only then will the real picture emerge and can you draw logical conclusions.

I directly answered all of the questions you asked in my previous post:

Kfc,

I stand by my statement.

The Philippines is "dead last" in GDP Growth in Asia, with almost half the GDP growth of Bangladesh (Table 2) !!!!

The Philippines is the poorest of the poor  2nd only to Bangladesh(Table 2) with the highest Urban (54) and Rural (40) Poverty rate of ALL other SEAsian Countries included in the study.  Not exactly last as I opined but sharing a close 2nd with Bangladesh is not exactly stellar.

Perhaps the most disturbing and striking statistic in the study is that the Philippines went from one of the highest in GDP in Asia to now one of the lowest, things have gotten progressively worse in the Philippines.

And finally, the Philippines, according to the study, has seen an increase in poverty (HPI) from 2000 to 2005, no statistics were provided for any later dates.

Further:

If you had read the report as you claimed, GDP growth (Table 4) in 2006, 5 years ago, was 4.9% second to last to Nepal at 3.8% among 15 of the Asian nations in the this particular table.

10 years after the 1996 study, that you have decried and explicity labeled as "too old", the 2006 numbers show clearly that the Philippines is still a bottom feeder and for all intents and purposes, statistically speaking, last in GDP growth in Asia.

I stand by my statements as written.

If you find an equally or more comprehensive STUDY, then why don't you quote that study with whatever "up to date" statistics you feel are more significant to the findings.

Kfc, Robert, Posting individual numbers and statistics prove or disprove nothing.

Zulu

[thekfc]

Kfc,

The 2010 study is comprehensive and not a simple statement of GDP values.

Thats the value of a study, all of the raw values are crunched to produce metrics supported with underlying statistics.

I directly answered all of the questions you asked.

I stand by my statements as written.

Zulu

You stand by your statement - good for you. You have your study and it source - great.

As for me, I go by (in my personal views) more reliable sources - The World Development Indicator, Global Development Finance, The World Bank, IMF, Trading Economics and such. And, to me, their data, research and summary indicate otherwise.

Their unemployment rate is lower than a lot of 1st & 3rd world countries.
As for GDP growth - they have a better GDP growth rate than a lot of 1st & 3rd world countries.
The Government Debt to GDP is better than a lot of 1st world as well as 3rd world countries.
They are not the poorest of the poor.
They are not dead last (or near the bottom) in Asia in terms of GDP growth & per capita.

Oh wait, I am suppose to give supporting links, so here you go:

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/gdp-growth-rates-list-by-country

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/world-bank-by-indicator-list-by-country?i=gdp+%28us+dollar%29

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/philippines/indicators

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/unemployment-rates-list-by-country

http://www.worldbank.org/

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.CD

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.KD.ZG

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.KD.ZG

The Philippines is not as poor as some people make it look.

[thekfc]

10 years after the 1996 study, that you have decried and explicity labeled as "too old", the 2006 numbers show clearly that the Philippines is still a bottom feeder and for all intents and purposes, statistically speaking, last in GDP growth in Asia.

This is the most recent GDP growth data (2010).

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.KD.ZG

They had a better GDP growth than Hong Kong, Malaysia, Vietnam, Nepal and many other 1st world countries.

I do not consider that as being last in GDP growth nor a bottom feeder.

[thekfc]

As far as the individual numbers that you and Robert have quoted, they are NOT relevant to the Conclusions of the study.

You are correct they are NOT relevant to the Conclusions of the study.They were not meant to - they indicated otherwise.

Like I said before that study is one man's personal view NOT the view of ADB. The study was NOT done by ADB - they just published it.

In case you missed it before, here it is again - read the last sentence again.

The views expressed in this publication are those of the author and do not necessarily reflects the views and policies of the Asian Development Bank (ADB) or its Board of Governors or the governments they represent. ADB does not guarantee the accuracy of the data included in this publication and accepts no responsibility for any consequence of their use.

By making any designation of or reference to a particular territory or geographic area, or by using the term “country” in this document, ADB does not intend to make any judgments as to the legal  or status of any territory or area.

This study was prepared by Cielito Habito………There are, no doubt, various shortcomings that remain in both substance and form, for which the author takes exclusive responsibility. The analyses, views, and opinions represented herein are those of the author and should not be represented as those of ADB or the institution he represents.

[z_k_g]

ASEAN six majors refer to the six largest economies in the area with economies many times larger than the remaining four ASEAN countries. The six majors are: GDP nominal 2010 based on IMF data. The figures in parentheses are GDP PPP.

• Indonesia: 822.631 billions (1,027 billions)
• Thailand: 318.85 billions (584 billions)
• Malaysia: 247.781 billions (412 billions)
• Singapore: 222.7 billions (291 billions)
• Philippines: 216.96 billions (373 billions)
• Vietnam: 119.0 billions (275 billions)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_Southeast_Asian_Nations

Robert,

GDP........

Nice SINGLE data point, but totally irrelevant to poverty rate as determined by Asian Development Bank.

First, GDP is not the same as GDP growth.

Second, GDP growth is clearly the indicator used in the ADP report, not GDP. (Read the first paragraph of the Summary for the Report)

Finally, In terms of GDP growth, in 1996 (Table 1) and 2006 (Table 4) the Philippines was, as I stated earlier, statistically last, and close second in the same company with Bangladesh and Nepal respectively.

Also, as the report summary and conclusions clearly state, the poor in the Philippines are getting poorer every year.

Taking a very objective look at the 1996 and 2006 charts you should be convinced.

Notice that, Bangladesh, a perennial bottom feeder, actually increased its GDP growth in that same 10 year period (albeit not by much) while the Philippines remained stagnant.

Zulu

[z_k_g]

You are correct they are NOT relevant to the Conclusions of the study.They were not meant to - they indicated otherwise.

Like I said before that study is one man's personal view NOT the view of ADB. The study was NOT done by ADB - they just published it.

In case you missed it before, here it is again - read the last sentence again.

The views expressed in this publication are those of the author and do not necessarily reflects the views and policies of the Asian Development Bank (ADB) or its Board of Governors or the governments they represent. ADB does not guarantee the accuracy of the data included in this publication and accepts no responsibility for any consequence of their use.

By making any designation of or reference to a particular territory or geographic area, or by using the term “country” in this document, ADB does not intend to make any judgments as to the legal  or status of any territory or area.

This study was prepared by Cielito Habito………There are, no doubt, various shortcomings that remain in both substance and form, for which the author takes exclusive responsibility. The analyses, views, and opinions represented herein are those of the author and should not be represented as those of ADB or the institution he represents.

Kfc,

The report was published in 2010, so of course the GDP growth numbers for 2011 would not be included.

I really don't see your point in rebutting the authority, of the ADB or the validity of the data, and posting the standard disclaimer, they are highly respected and a member of the World Bank group of member banks.

Zulu
 

[euforia51]

Timeout ... facts, figures, tables, dates, and data points aside for a moment ... I'm curious and just have to ask why are you arguing such extremes, Zulu? i.e. the Philippines has the best babes (in another thread) ... yet it is ... and I quote ... ... a bottom feeder ... and ... dead last in GDP growth in Asia ... and getting poorer every year? Why all of the dramatic terms as if you are making an argument that it is the worst of the worst ... but oh by the way ... it's redeeming quality is that it produces the best babes?

[thekfc]

Kfc,

The report was published in 2010, so of course the GDP growth numbers for 2011 would not be included.

I really don't see your point in rebutting the authority, of the ADB or the validity of the data, and posting the standard disclaimer, they are highly respected and a member of the World Bank group of member banks.

Zulu

Can you kindly show me where I am rebutting the authority of the ADB?

I said that ADB didn't do the study - they just published it.

[thekfc]

Timeout ... facts, figures, tables, dates, and data points aside for a moment ... I'm curious and just have to ask why are you arguing such extremes, Zulu? i.e. the Philippines has the best babes (in another thread) ... yet it is ... and I quote ... ... a bottom feeder ... and ... dead last in GDP growth in Asia ... and getting poorer every year? Why all of the dramatic terms as if you are making an argument that it is the worst of the worst ... but oh by the way ... it's redeeming quality is that it produces the best babes?

[z_k_g]

Can you kindly show me where I am rebutting the authority of the ADB?

I said that ADB didn't do the study - they just published it.

Kfc,

You are questioning the author's authority, implying directly that the ABD simply "published" this document and had nothing to do with the content.

The study is an ADB study, published by the ADB using a hired and commissioned consultant, Cielto Hibito, to prepare the study under their "guidance and supervision", read page 3 very carefully.

If you need further clarification, why don't you just send them an email.

I got the report from the ADB website and if you look at any of the thousands of studies by the ADB and similar organizations you will find the standard disclaimer, its pretty common bro.

You are reaching for straws here Kfc.

Zulu

[z_k_g]

Timeout ... facts, figures, tables, dates, and data points aside for a moment ... I'm curious and just have to ask why are you arguing such extremes, Zulu? i.e. the Philippines has the best babes (in another thread) ... yet it is ... and I quote ... ... a bottom feeder ... and ... dead last in GDP growth in Asia ... and getting poorer every year? Why all of the dramatic terms as if you are making an argument that it is the worst of the worst ... but oh by the way ... it's redeeming quality is that it produces the best babes?

Euforia,

First of all, this is a necessary exercise.  Kfc wants to prove a point here and it has nothing to do with the Philippines.

Second, any and every statement I make will be handled in this fashion, I'm used to that, so be it, lets roll.

Thirdly, I love the Philippines, the women and the people there.  Stating known facts has no bearing on those sentiments.

So.....Read all of my posts and don't cherry pick, ok?

To respond to your query, I think the Phils has the best babes, my opinion...but what has that has to do with the price of eggs in Brooklyn?  or the economic strength of the Philippines economy, I'm not making that connection and haven't tried in any of my posts.

Men seek to date women in Colombia and we post extensively about the many dangers and risks and the real possibility of death.....but the women are still beautiful, right?  No connection between the two, same here euforia.

I have not seen you ask this same question on the Latin side when those negative posts abound daily...kidnappings, druggings, murder, prepagos....why do it on the Asian side? 

"Bottom feeder" was a bit harsh but....they are on the bottom, should I refrain from slang on my posts?  Nah....

Fact:

The Philippines is getting poorer every year based on the real world numbers and also is dead last in GDP growth for the years stated among ASEAN-5 countries and second to last among the Asian countries in the report for 1996 and 2006.

Those are the facts.

This is entire exercise is educational and fun.

Lets continue with Kfc's fact finding, I'm enjoying the fray.

Zulu

[thekfc]

Kfc,

You are questioning the author's authority, implying directly that the ABD simply "published" this document and had nothing to do with the content.

The study is an ADB study, published by the ADB using a hired and commissioned consultant, Cielto Hibito, to prepare the study under their "guidance and supervision", read page 3 very carefully.

If you need further clarification, why don't you just send them an email.

I got the report from the ADB website and if you look at any of the thousands of studies by the ADB and similar organizations you will find the standard disclaimer, its pretty common bro.

You are reaching for straws here Kfc.

Zulu

Zulu, read my previous posts carefully, I NEVER questioned the authority of the author or that of ADB.

I said that the report was  "Ciel"'s  - his personal view.

 I said that the study/report was incomplete as it excludes the other SEA & Asian countries.

I also said that the author is an economist, a professor & a columnist. 

There is no place where I questioned his authority or credentials. And since you say that I questioned the author's authority why don't you show the post where I questioned his authority.

[euforia51]

So.....Read all of my posts and don't cherry pick, ok?

Public forum here, Zulu ... I will read, pick, and ask as I please, ok? Thanks!

To respond to your query, I think the Phils has the best babes, my opinion...but what has that has to do with the price of eggs in Brooklyn?

I don't know, you're the one starting the who has the best babes threads? (shrug) Hence my query.
 

Men seek to date women in Colombia and we post extensively about the many dangers and risks and the real possibility of death.....but the women are still beautiful, right?  No connection between the two, same here euforia.

I wasn't attempting to make a connection between the beauty of the women in a given country and the amount of poverty in that country. Go back and re-read my question ... and don't cherry pick! 
 

I have not seen you ask this same question on the Latin side when those negative posts abound daily...kidnappings, druggings, murder, prepagos....why do it on the Asian side?

Because I can. 

"Bottom feeder" was a bit harsh but....they are on the bottom, should I refrain from slang on my posts?  Nah....

Of course, you are free to call it what you'd like ... but since you are consistently telling us all how we should post and make positive comments and observations on the forum, I thought it fitting to point out that calling a country a bottom feeder because it is, in your view, the poorest of the poor, somehow doesn't ring out very positive to me.
It's your thread, Zulu. So forgive me for budding in I was just curious about the method to the madness as I see it.

[z_k_g]

Zulu, read my previous posts carefully, I NEVER questioned the authority of the author or that of ADB.

I said that the report was  "Ciel"'s  - his personal view.

 I said that the study/report was incomplete as it excludes the other SEA & Asian countries.

I also said that the author is an economist, a professor & a columnist. 

There is no place where I questioned his authority or credentials. And since you say that I questioned the author's authority why don't you show the post where I questioned his authority.

Kfc,

The report is NOT his personal views.

His findings are his Professional views written under the guidance and supervision of the ADB.  Further, as noted before, he was hired and directed by the ADB and the report is published under the auspices of the ADB. 

If you go to their website, www.adb.org, look under the Publications tab, you will find this report, and many many others published by the ADB with including the exact same disclaimers and legal language, I might add.

I would suggest that if you have these extreme reservations about the validity of this report as an official ADB document then send them an email to reconfirm what is patently OBVIOUS.

I really think your point is MOOT, sir.

Zulu

[thekfc]

Kfc,

The report is NOT his personal views.

His findings are his Professional views written under the guidance and supervision of the ADB.  Further, as noted before, he was hired and directed by the ADB and the report is published under the auspices of the ADB. 

If you go to their website, www.adb.org, look under the Publications tab, you will find this report, and many many others published by the ADB with including the exact same disclaimers and legal language, I might add.

I would suggest that if you have these extreme reservations about the validity of this report as an official ADB document then send them an email to reconfirm what is patently OBVIOUS.

I really think your point is MOOT, sir.

Zulu

Zulu, you said that I questioned the author's authority.
Show me the post where I questioned the author's authority  or credential.

[z_k_g]

Euforia,

You can "cherry pick" any statements you like, we both own a computer.

But "cutting and pasting" my statements about my view of the beauty women and relating that to this UNRELATED discussion of poverty in the Philippines is what I'm calling your attention.

My admiration of pinays has "nothing to do with nothing" in this thread, there is not connection between the two.

Kidnapping, murder and robbery are daily realities in Colombia, and we discuss them.  But those discussions of FACT has nothing to do with the admiration, love and appreciation we have for the Colombian people and other discussions we have about acclimating your novia to life in the states or Canada.

So if anyone on the Latin side discusses murder, kidnapping or robbery do you question him in the same fashion?

No, of course not and the same common sense applies here.

Stating FACTS about the Philippines that were asked by KFC has nothing to do with anything other than his queries on this post.

In this case we are discussing poverty, which is an in your face reality in the Philippines that you will see once you get off the plane.

To discuss that fact is a GOOD thing because it indicates that we are having REAL discourse about real issues.

Kfc is a benefit to P-L.

I compliment him and look forward to this positive and educational discourse.

This is a great discussion of the facts.

I love it.

Zulu

[euforia51]

So if anyone on the Latin side discusses murder, kidnapping or robbery do you question him in the same fashion?

No, of course not and the same common sense applies here.

Chill out ... I apologized once already for budding into this thread. And yes, I knew better but did it anyway. And I won't do it in this thread again.
 
As for discussing the point above ... you're incorrect ... you bet I will question sources and intent (and have before) if I see someone is posting BS simply to be a fear monger.

[z_k_g]

Zulu, you said that I questioned the author's authority.
Show me the post where I questioned the author's authority  or credential.

Ok.

1st you implied that the ADB was "merely" just a publisher then you quoted the disclaimer to back up your position

Fact: The ADB hired this man and directed his work and then published this document under their auspices.

3rd then you stated that this was his "personal opinion"

Fact: This is not his personal opinion but his "hired" consulting professional opinion reviewed and approved and ultimately published under the auspicies of the ADB.

In each instance your logic is flawed and conclusions incorrect.

As far as the study being incomplete, that may be true.

But..This is a very very complete specific report with clear conclusions supported by the authority of ADB in Manila.
 
 Also, there is no report that has ever been promulgated (by anyone) that is 100% complete, 100% timely or 100% without flaws.
 
 Why don't you just email the ADB and ask your questions about their data sets and the statistics used they can answer those questions much much better than I.

 Zulu

[z_k_g]

Chill out ... I apologized once already for budding into this thread. And yes, I knew better but did it anyway. And I won't do it in this thread again.
 
As for discussing the point above ... you're incorrect ... you bet I will question sources and intent (and have before) if I see someone is posting BS simply to be a fear monger.

Euforia,

I appreciate you keeping me on my toes. 

I'll try my best to stay away from the extreme statements......and slang (which has gotten me in hot water before.....)

So.....I got your point.

Thanks

Zulu

[z_k_g]

Kfc,

A very complete list.

But....Question?

I mean.....Do you really have time to sort through and read all of these links and to figure out what it all means?

Sort through the stats, the metrics, the tables and figure out all the acronyms and technical mumbo jumbo?

And then reach some conclusions?

Well....I don't and most CEO's, economists, journalists and regular folk with limited time don't have that type of time or expertise.

This is the purpose of the ADB study: so we can see the big picture with all of the data crunched by experts.

The ADB document is concise and promulgated by a respected domestic and international banking authority.

Its a good document with clear conclusions and show's a real picture of whats happening in the Philippines.

Zulu

You stand by your statement - good for you. You have your study and it source - great.

As for me, I go by (in my personal views) more reliable sources - The World Development Indicator, Global Development Finance, The World Bank, IMF, Trading Economics and such. And, to me, their data, research and summary indicate otherwise.

Their unemployment rate is lower than a lot of 1st & 3rd world countries.
As for GDP growth - they have a better GDP growth rate than a lot of 1st & 3rd world countries.
The Government Debt to GDP is better than a lot of 1st world as well as 3rd world countries.
They are not the poorest of the poor.
They are not dead last (or near the bottom) in Asia in terms of GDP growth & per capita.

Oh wait, I am suppose to give supporting links, so here you go:

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/gdp-growth-rates-list-by-country

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/world-bank-by-indicator-list-by-country?i=gdp+%28us+dollar%29

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/philippines/indicators

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/unemployment-rates-list-by-country

http://www.worldbank.org/

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.CD

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.KD.ZG

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.KD.ZG

The Philippines is not as poor as some people make it look.

[thekfc]

Ok.

1st you implied that the ADB was "merely" just a publisher then you quoted the disclaimer to back up your position

Fact: The ADB hired this man and directed his work and then published this document under their auspices.

3rd then you stated that this was his "personal opinion"

Fact: This is not his personal opinion but his "hired" consulting professional opinion reviewed and approved and ultimately published under the auspicies of the ADB.

In each instance your logic is flawed and conclusions incorrect.

As far as the study being incomplete, that may be true.

But..This is a very very complete specific report with clear conclusions supported by the authority of ADB in Manila.
 
 Also, there is no report that has ever been promulgated (by anyone) that is 100% complete, 100% timely or 100% without flaws.
 
 Why don't you just email the ADB and ask your questions about their data sets and the statistics used they can answer those questions much much better than I.

 Zulu

Before I even reply to anything in the above.
I asked where did I questioned the author's authority? You said that I questions his authority.

[thekfc]

Kfc,

A very complete list.

But....Question?

I mean.....Do you really have time to sort through and read all of these links and to figure out what it all means?

Sort through the stats, the metrics, the tables and figure out all the acronyms and technical mumbo jumbo?

And then reach some conclusions?

Well....I don't and most CEO's, economists, journalists and regular folk with limited time don't have that type of time or expertise.

This is the purpose of the ADB study: so we can see the big picture with all of the data crunched by experts.

The ADB document is concise and promulgated by a respected domestic and international banking authority.

Its a good document with clear conclusions and show's a real picture of whats happening in the Philippines.

Zulu

Yes, it is a more complete & "up-to-date" statistical data.
 
Have you looked at it yet? If not, then take a few moments to do so. You previously told me to read the 76 page report but I am only asking you to read just a few pages. And after you finish reading the stats then you can comment on it.

Tell us what are your thoughts, tell us where the Philippines stand compare to other SEA & Asian countries.
Are they still as per you " the poorest of the poor" and "last in all of Asia"?

Oh wait, you don't have the time to sort through it. You will just stand by you previous statements.

Oh well, I think I will go watch "Red Cliff" with the wife - she want to see it again. Crap, that is 280 minutes of movies watching, well at least it Blu-ray & not SD and an entertaining movie. 

[robert angel]

The comparisons and disagreements on whether or not the Philippines are dead last in leading economic indicators among ASEA nations or in Asia as a whole, might make one think about statistics, how easily they are manipulated by writers and interpreted by readers, the validity of their sources and date of quoted statistics from those sources.




While the general consensus is that the Philippines, (not all agree of course) is not at the bottom, few would doubt that it's on the low end.




If you dig around enough on line, you can almost always find sources to support your opinion with what do feel are 'facts'.




I think it goes without question that the Philippine's economy is a mess. Too many children in big, poor families and not enough jobs does not overcome a very high literacy rate and it being the nation with the third highest number of English speaking citizens.  in the world and many who adapt to learning Spanish quite well.





In all fairness, I think a very valid measure of a nation's economic well being and how that translates in quality of life for those citizens, should largely be measured in per capita income and what percentage of the citizens, as well as persons from abroad, hold the vast majority of wealth.





I also think if you are comparing GDP between nations, you should look at the population of the countries relative to each other first, although there are other significant factors. You'd think availability of natural domestic resources would be a key to --but Japan and Korea don't have a lot and look at them.





I think all things being looked at, the two most fairly comparable countries are the Philippines and Vietnam. Both have similar population sizes, along with incredibly high rates of govt. corruption. The Philippines is by and large a Catholic nation, the church wields enormous political influence and seems to almost encourage large families, but by most estimates, Vietnam's population is about 50% Catholic.





The Philippine's geography is considerably different from Vietnam's and Vietnam is the world's second largest exporter of coffee, second only to Brazil and is currently producing about 30% more coffee than Colombia. Vietnam also is a major exporter of rice, whereas the Philippines can't grow enough rice to feed its own population. In the USA, I see more and more products from Vietnam lately than I do from the Philippines.





My son bought an expensive Marshall guitar amplifier (a grand old British name and product) and he was so looking forward to it--telling me "Dad--they're handmade in London!!" My--we were surprised when it arrived to find it was made in Vietnam! And it was made very well, from the overall construction, to sound quality, soldering of the electronics, down to the perfect stitching on the grill.






Unlike the USA, countries like Korea and Vietnam are manufacturing more sophisticated products for export, as they move away from an agricultural based economy.





I would have thought that Vietnam would be ahead of the Philippines in most leading economic indicators, but according to most figures and reports as I understand them from my admittedly limited research, it still lags significantly behind the Philippines--at least currently.




That's what I gather--some of which surprised me. You may see things differently.