The Philipino Over Seas Worker

[z_k_g]

Filipinos are well trained in medicine, engineering, and nursing and are among the BEST in the world at what they do. 

They have a strong work ethic and are among the best employees that give their all to do quality work.
 
As far as the OSW being underpaid and not being able to save any significant amount of money.  This may be true for domestics but this is NOT the case for skilled professionals like nurses, doctors and ones with technical training.

 My sweeties sister's husband is a master electrician in Saudi Arabia.  He has saved his money to start his own business when he returns and he has bought property and is currently building a house.
 
 My sweeties uncle worked and studied in Israel for 4 years in agriculture.  He saved his money, started a farmers co-op and assistance organization and also uses his expertise to help farmers with increasing their yields.
 
 My sweeites 1st cousin worked for 3 to 4 years in HK.  She saved some of her money, sent most back home, but didn't make a significant amount to start a business but she was able to find a job in her field because of her significant experience in hospitality.
 
 I'm not a fan of the OSW program, its a significant "brain drain" but the Philippines is the poorest of the poor in SEA and the program allows the Filipino to get out and experience the rest of the world and sometimes make a little money in the process.

If they stayed in the Philippines all they could look forward to is working at the mall, farming or a job with very low wages.
 
 Zulu
 
 
 

[Bob_S]

Filipinos are well trained in medicine, engineering, and nursing and are among the BEST in the world at what they do. 

Fact?  Or opinion?

My sweeties sister is a master electrician in Saudi Arabia.  He has saved his money to start his own business when he returns and he has bought property and is currently building a house.

Do you want to go back and fix that one more time?  Sister or brother?

[z_k_g]

Fact?  Or opinion?
Do you want to go back and fix that one more time?  Sister or brother?

Bob,

I made that correction, her sister's husband.

Thanks

Zulu

[z_k_g]

Fact?  Or opinion?

Bob,

Good point, I think we need to ask that of every poster henceforward in the Asian forum, don't cha think?

I would answer that by saying the opinion of the employers who spend their cash to hire the millions of Filipino OSW and employ the top engineers, nurses and technicians is explicit.

The Filipino OSW program is one of the largest and most utilized in the world and there is no shortage of work for technically trained highly qualified graduates.

Also, in the technical fields, typically only the best of the best are hired to work overseas.  These OSW have passed significant western level exams, testing and certifications and some even have completed industry internships with multinational corps headquartered in the Philippines. 

We have chronicled Piglets wife's struggle with the national nursing exam on P-L.  Other technical fields have similar rigorous testing standards that most Filipinos do not pass.

The national engineering in training exam is the same exam that graduating engineers take in the US and Canada, the pass rate is over 50% (ours is around 70%)

Here are the various areas that require certification and some of the test results.

http://www.boardexamresultsph.com/

Although not OSW, the Filipino call centers are routinely ranked among the best quality in customer service and professionalism.

The Filipino engineers that I have worked with, 1 mechanical and 1 electrical were highly competent, and you will find pinay nurses at every level in American and other major hospital systems all over the world.

Of course you have the Filipino laborers, deckhands and domestics that make up the majority of the OSW employed.

I think the success of the program, the continued recruitment and hiring of OSW, specifically the technically trained OSW, speaks for itself.

In my opinion.   

Zulu

[thekfc]

I'm not a fan of the OSW program, its a significant "brain drain" but the Philippines is the poorest of the poor in SEA and the program allows the Filipino to get out and experience the rest of the world and sometimes make a little money in the process.

Isn't Laos, Burma, Cambodia, Vietnam & East Timor considered poorer than the Philippines? They are also in SEA.

When it comes to overall GDP per year - the Philippines is ranked in the top 50 in the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annual_average_GDP_growth

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29

http://siteresources.worldbank.org/DATASTATISTICS/Resources/GDP.pdf

[z_k_g]

Isn't Laos, Burma, Cambodia, Vietnam & East Timor considered poorer than the Philippines? They are also in SEA.

When it comes to overall GDP per year - the Philippines is ranked in the top 50 in the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annual_average_GDP_growth

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29

http://siteresources.worldbank.org/DATASTATISTICS/Resources/GDP.pdf

 
 Kfc,
 
 Here is my source.
 
 According to the Asia Development Bank's 2010 "ASEAN Report for High and Inclusive growth in the Philippines" the Philippine Republic is dead last in all of Asia in:
 
 1. Per capita income
 2. GDP growth
 
 The Philippines does have a lower poverty rate than some of its ASEAN neighbors, however, it has a LOWER GDP growth of even the poorest nations with HIGHER poverty levels.
 
 What does this mean?
 
 Well, according the ADB the country has moved from one of the highest levels of GDP growth to the lowest and that means that overall, Filipinos are getting poorer every year.
 
 There is an extreme crisis in the Philippines and things are simply getting worse.
 
 Zulu
 

[thekfc]

 
 Kfc,
 
 Here is my source.
 
 According to the Asia Development Bank's 2010 "ASEAN Report for High and Inclusive growth in the Philippines" the Philippine Republic is dead last in all of Asia in:
 
 1. Per capita income
 2. GDP growth
 
 The Philippines does have a lower poverty rate than some of its ASEAN neighbors, however, it has a LOWER GDP growth of even the poorest nations with HIGHER poverty levels.
 
 What does this mean?
 
 Well, according the ADB the country has moved from one of the highest levels of GDP growth to the lowest and that means that overall, Filipinos are getting poorer every year.
 
 There is an extreme crisis in the Philippines and things are simply getting worse.
 
 Zulu

You need to re-read that link you provided.

Key word ASEAN-5, they are only talking about 5 countries - Indonesia, Malaysia, The Philippines, Singapore & Thailand - and the Philippines is last among the 5.

This is not for all of Asian & nor is it for all of South East Asia.

[z_k_g]

KFC,

Read the report (Executive Summary and Introduction) and look at the statistics charts and you will see what Asian countries that are compared to the Phils, I think you will find China, Vietnam, India, etc.

Its an ASEAN-5 report but not limited to only 5 countries.

The entire report is over 70 pages and very detailed and comprehensive, I posted only the executive summary and introduction.

Zulu

[thekfc]

KFC,

Read the report and look at the statistics charts and you will see what Asian countries that are compared to the Phils.

Its an ASEAN-5 report but not limited to only 5 countries.

Zulu

You are correct about it being an ASEAN-5 report and not limited to only 5 countries. BUT it excludes some of SEA and over two-third of Asia.

But you said & I quote:

You said that the Philippines is dead last in all of Asia in........

  According to the Asia Development Bank's 2010 "ASEAN Report for High and Inclusive growth in the Philippines" the Philippine Republic is dead last in all of Asia in:
 
  1. Per capita income
  2. GDP growth
 

There are 48 countries in Asia and as per you the Philippines is ranked#48. At the most, only 15 of the 48 are on the charts BUT the PI is not dead last (with the exception of ASEAN-5).

 The Philippines is the poorest of the poor in SEA.

... the Philippines is the poorest of the poor in SEA...

There are 11 countries (& 4 territories) in SEA and as per you the PI is the poorest of all. Only 7 of the SEA countries are on these charts and the PI is not even last (with the exception of ASEAN-5).

[Ray]

Filipinos are well trained in medicine, engineering, and nursing and are among the BEST in the world at what they do.

They have a strong work ethic and are among the best employees that give their all to do quality work.

As far as the OSW being underpaid and not being able to save any significant amount of money. This may be true for domestics but this is NOT the case for skilled professionals like nurses, doctors and ones with technical training.

My sweeties sister's husband is a master electrician in Saudi Arabia. He has saved his money to start his own business when he returns and he has bought property and is currently building a house.

My sweeties uncle worked and studied in Israel for 4 years in agriculture. He saved his money, started a farmers co-op and assistance organization and also uses his expertise to help farmers with increasing their yields.

My sweeites 1st cousin worked for 3 to 4 years in HK. She saved some of her money, sent most back home, but didn't make a significant amount to start a business but she was able to find a job in her field because of her significant experience in hospitality.

I'm not a fan of the OSW program, its a significant "brain drain" but the Philippines is the poorest of the poor in SEA and the program allows the Filipino to get out and experience the rest of the world and sometimes make a little money in the process.

If they stayed in the Philippines all they could look forward to is working at the mall, farming or a job with very low wages.

Zulu

　
You're not a fan? Just a little while earlier you were touting this as an "excellent strategy".
　

There is no work in the Phils and there is a lot of work in other places. I don't see a problem here and I think its an excellent strategy for the government to find work for these poor people.

　
So what made you change your mind so quickly zulu??
　
Just a friendly tip: If you want to have folks take your views on this topic seriously, I would at least use the correct terminology… OCW (Overseas Contract Worker) or OFW (Overseas Filipino Worker)…not OSW(?).
　
I don’t worry about spelling errors, but if you are going to marry a Filipina, or attempt to speak with any authority on Philippine topics, I would strongly recommend that you never use the common misspelling "Philipino". Instead, use only "Filipino", or when referring to the language, you can also use "Pilipino". It will give you a little more credibility.   
　
　
Ray
　

[thekfc]

KFC,

Read the report (Executive Summary and Introduction) and look at the statistics charts and you will see what Asian countries that are compared to the Phils, I think you will find China, Vietnam, India, etc.

Its an ASEAN-5 report but not limited to only 5 countries.

The entire report is over 70 pages and very detailed and comprehensive, I posted only the executive summary and introduction.

Zulu

I see that you went back and edited your post after I posted
 
 You posted only the executive summary and introduction.
 
 Well, I will post the entire 76 page report but the charts still do not support your saying that the Philippines is the poorest of the poor in SEA & dead last in all of Asia.
 
 http://www.adb.org/documents/reports/agenda-high-inclusive-growth/agenda-high-inclusive-growth.pdf

[z_k_g]

Kfc,

I did not upload the entire report because of the 1mb limit.

Ray,

I consider the OSW program an excellent strategy for the government, of course, they need to get these people working and anything is better than nothing, but I'm not a fan of that strategy, its a brain drain, just as I posted, I don't see the issue there.

Analogously, I consider the new TSA security measures an excellent strategy to catch would be bombers, but I'm not a fan of the erosion and elimination of certain freedoms guaranteed in the Constitution to ensure our "collective" national security.

In both cases, something is better than nothing at all, and they both work, but I wouldn't take either approach because there are other solutions that I would implement if I were the decision maker.

Does that make things a bit clearer?

Zulu

[thekfc]

I did not upload the entire report because of the 1mb limit.

Now I provided a link to it & the entire 76 page report can be read.
But I still do not see where it support your claim that "the Philippines is the poorest of the poor in SEA & dead last in all of Asia".

[z_k_g]

I see that you went back and edited your post after I posted
 
 You posted only the executive summary and introduction.
 
 Well, I will post the entire 76 page report but the charts still do not support your saying that the Philippines is the poorest of the poor in SEA & dead last in all of Asia.
 
 http://www.adb.org/documents/reports/agenda-high-inclusive-growth/agenda-high-inclusive-growth.pdf

Kfc,

I stand by my statement.

The Philippines is "dead last" in GDP Growth in Asia, with almost half the GDP growth of Bangladesh (Table 2) !!!!

The Philippines is the poorest of the poor  2nd only to Bangladesh(Table 2) with the highest Urban (54) and Rural (40) Poverty rate of ALL other SEAsian Countries included in the study.  Not exactly last as I opined but sharing a close 2nd with Bangladesh is not exactly stellar.

Perhaps the most disturbing and striking statistic in the study is that the Philippines went from one of the highest in GDP in Asia to now one of the lowest, things have gotten progressively worse in the Philippines.

And finally, the Philippines, according to the study, has seen an increase in poverty (HPI) from 2000 to 2005, no statistics were provided for any later dates.

Zulu.

[z_k_g]

Kfc,

I think you should read the entire report, I did, when it came out in 2010.

I'm not sure what your continued using "fine tooth comb" on my post serves.

What REAL difference does it make if the Philippines is 1st or 2nd in poverty and poorest of the poor in Asia?  Do you feel it necessary urge to correct that my statements the compelling? 

If I shoot you or cut your throat, which method makes your more dead?

Come on kfc.

The thing is, your questions show a certain basic lack of understand about probability, statistics and metrics which are the foundation of this and most studies like it.

With an understanding of prob & stats and metrics, it would be clear that either the bottom positions on the Tables , considering errors, lack of data, standard deviation, etc, can be argued statistically to be the same.

And, in that context, after reading the study, your questions would just not make any sense to ask.

I didn't write this very detailed and exhaustive study but its conclusions are very clear, the Philippines is getting poorer every year and is on par with Bangladesh in poverty.

Anyone who has a cursary knowlege of the world, or just from watching the news, understands the extreme poverty level in Bangladesh.  The Philippines is 2nd to that country and getting worse, as poignantly noted in the study.

So why don't you spend your time on something more constructive than splitting very very fine hairs with me?

The facts are clear, just read the conclusions of the study.

Zulu

[thekfc]

I stand by my statement.

which is

but the Philippines is the poorest of the poor in SEA

So according to you (your statement) the Philippines is poorer than  ALL of the following SEA countries:
Brunei
Burma
Cambodia
East Timor
Indonesia
Laos
Malaysia
Singapore
Thailand
Vietnam

And the following 4 territories:
Christmas Island
Cocos Island
Andaman & Nicobar Islands
Hainan

 
 According to the Asia Development Bank's 2010 "ASEAN Report for High and Inclusive growth in the Philippines" the Philippine Republic is dead last in all of Asia in:
 
 1. Per capita income
 2. GDP growth
 

The Philippines is "dead last" in GDP Growth in Asia, with almost half the GDP growth of Bangladesh (Table 2) !!!!

The Philippines is the poorest of the poor  2nd only to Bangladesh(Table 2) with the highest Urban (54) and Rural (40) Poverty rate of ALL other SEAsian Countries included in the study.  Not exactly last as I opined but sharing a close 2nd with Bangladesh is not exactly stellar.

There are only 10 countries on table 2 - what about the other 38 countries?

Only 4 out of the 11 SEA countries are on table 2 - what about the others?-

Furthermore table 2 is from 1990 to 1996 - that was from 22 to 16 years ago.

Yes The Philippines is last in ASEAN-5 but NOT in all of Asia or all of SEA.

[z_k_g]

I don’t worry about spelling errors, but if you are going to marry a Filipina, or attempt to speak with any authority on Philippine topics, I would strongly recommend that you never use the common misspelling "Philipino". Instead, use only "Filipino", or when referring to the language, you can also use "Pilipino". It will give you a little more credibility.   
　

Ray,

Good advice.

Zulu

[z_k_g]

which is So according to you (your statement) the Philippines is poorer than  ALL of the following SEA countries:
Brunei
Burma
Cambodia
East Timor
Indonesia
Laos
Malaysia
Singapore
Thailand
Vietnam

And the following 4 territories:
Christmas Island
Cocos Island
Andaman & Nicobar Islands
Hainan


There are only 10 countries on table 2 - what about the other 38 countries?

Only 4 out of the 11 SEA countries are on table 2 - what about the others?-

Furthermore table 2 is from 1990 to 1996 - that was from 22 to 16 years ago.

Yes The Philippines is last in ASEAN-5 but NOT in all of Asia or all of SEA.

Kfc,

Read the study.

Zulu

[thekfc]

Kfc,

I think you should read the entire report, I did, when it came out in 2010.

I'm not sure what your continued using "fine tooth comb" on my post serves.

What REAL difference does it make if the Philippines is 1st or 2nd in poverty and poorest of the poor in Asia?  Do you feel it necessary urge to correct that my statements the compelling? 

If I shoot you or cut your throat, which method makes your more dead?

Come on kfc.

The thing is, your questions show a certain basic lack of understand about probability, statistics and metrics which are the foundation of this and most studies like it.

With an understanding of prob & stats and metrics, it would be clear that either the bottom positions on the Tables , considering errors, lack of data, standard deviation, etc, can be argued statistically to be the same.

And, in that context, after reading the study, your questions would just not make any sense to ask.

I didn't write this very detailed and exhaustive study but its conclusions are very clear, the Philippines is getting poorer every year and is on par with Bangladesh in poverty.

Anyone who has a cursary knowlege of the world, or just from watching the news, understands the extreme poverty level in Bangladesh.  The Philippines is 2nd to that country and getting worse, as poignantly noted in the study.

So why don't you spend your time on something more constructive than splitting very very fine hairs with me?

The facts are clear, just read the conclusions of the study.

Zulu

You made a statement & it was questioned.

Then you made another statement and posted a report to support your statement. And that too was questioned.

You said that it was only a partial report - so I posted the full report for everyone to see and nowhere in that report was your statement supported.

If you made an error why don't you just admit that you made an error and move on. We all make errors - we learn from it and we move on. If someone can point out that I made an error & where - I would look at it and if I did then I will admit that I made an error.   

I, myself have made a few error myself on this forum, I have even apologize to people (you were one of them).

As to reading the report - you are not the only one who have read it.    

[thekfc]

Kfc,

Read the study.

Zulu

Just like you - I already have. 

[z_k_g]

Kfc,

The study was published in 2010.

The source is authoritative, the conclusions are clear.

My statements were all factual and correct, I answered all of your posts clearly.

Is there anything else?

Zulu

[robert angel]

ASEAN six majors refer to the six largest economies in the area with economies many times larger than the remaining four ASEAN countries. The six majors are: GDP nominal 2010 based on IMF data. The figures in parentheses are GDP PPP.

• Indonesia: 822.631 billions (1,027 billions)
• Thailand: 318.85 billions (584 billions)
• Malaysia: 247.781 billions (412 billions)
• Singapore: 222.7 billions (291 billions)
• Philippines: 216.96 billions (373 billions)
• Vietnam: 119.0 billions (275 billions)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_Southeast_Asian_Nations

[robert angel]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ASEAN_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)
 
List of ASEAN countries GDP (nominal), International Monetary Fund 2016 estimates.

Rank	Country	GDP (millions of USD)
—	United States	18,250,647
—	People's Republic of China	11,779,979
—	Japan	6,782,937
—	South Korea	1,585,799
—	ASEAN	3,340,023
1	Indonesia	1,336,570
2	Thailand	498,495
3	Philippines	479,923
4	Malaysia	362,398
5	Singapore	318,915
6	Vietnam	230,341
7	Burma	63,689
8	Cambodia	21,081
9	Brunei	18,120
10	Laos	10,491

[thekfc]

Kfc,

The study was published in 2010.

The source is authoritative, the conclusions are clear.

My statements were all factual and correct, I answered all of your posts clearly.

Is there anything else?

Zulu

Yes, the source may be authoritative but your statements are not all factual and correct and NO you did not answer all my post clearly.

I too gave an authoritative source (The World Bank) and they show numbers for 2010 showing the PI as being ranked #44 in the world when it comes to GDP - there are a few SEA countries ranked below it.

Oh, wait, the table #2 you keep referring to is for 1996.

Now matter what I post/link or anyone else - you will stand/continue to stand by your statement because according to you and I quote:

My statements were all factual and correct

[thekfc]

Here are more reading materials (sources):

Philippines is among leading economies in South East Asian region.
http://www.economywatch.com/gdp/world-gdp/philippines.html

The top 50 GDP in the world ( plus Growth, per capita & estimates) - the Philippines is on the list, other SEA & Asian countries are not.
http://www.indexq.org/economy/gdp.php