Why did your relationship succeed or fail?

[fschmidt]

You previously said that you have no American women friends, no sisters or other female relatives.

Not friends.  I have a wife, mother, and daughter.  There are also my friend's wives and ex-wives and other women I know about.  Also my wife tells me the gossip from her friends.

[fathertime]

I anticipate my fiance to be here (providing the interview goes well) in a couple of weeks.  By the way, she is going on 7 months pregnant and, yes, it (she) is mine.      Anyway, my fiance will bring her four year-old daughter to join my eight year-old son (for whom I share time/responsibility) and I.
 
We both look forward to lots of family fun, cooking together, watching movies, going places and lots of sex!          We're both Catholic and will make it a point to go to church every week.  For her this is the norm but for me this will be different as I've been a twice-a-year-Catholic for a while now (Easter & Christmas).  I would like that we pray together and say prayer at meals.  I think our sharing our relationship with God is very important and will strengthen our union.  Most importantly I want complete and total honesty with one-another in all things. 
 
For those that have already been there, what worked or didn't work for you and your new mate after the honeymoom was over and she (or he) got settled down with you in your new lives? 
 
My biggest concern is that she will be homesick.  However, although she and her daughter live with her parents, she has a strained relationship with her mother and so I don't believe she'll miss her too much.   

Hi OG!


It is hard to comment directly to your unique situation since your lady is bringing a child of her own to you.  I would think that would have a good chance to make her less lonely, in addition to her not so good relationship with her mother. 

I think it would be good to see if you get her socializing with other people and start to help her build a little friendship circle.   


Fathertime! 

[Brazilophile]

Women do not have an internal moral compass the way men do. 

 Everyone has reacted quite strongly to the above statement.  It is certainly a very broad generalization that does not apply to all women.
 
 In FSchmidt's defense, in my experience I have found that women more easily and more frequently distort 'facts', manipulate people, selectively forget/remember, and outright lie than do men.  Very few men have ever bald-faced lied to my face when it was clear to all what the facts were.  Men owned up to what was obvious.  Very few women have behaved likewise.  Women have bald-faced lied to my face denying facts right in front of us both. Women have started gossip full of lies about me and others.  Women have lied to others to manipulate them into behaving badly towards me and others.
 
 One woman made a comment to me that might explain this phenomenon.  She said "You men always have the option of fighting your way out of a confrontation."  The implication being that women lie and manipulate in order to avoid a confrontation that may become dangerous to them.  So when a woman fears such a situation, she turns off whatever internal moral compass she may have, and does whatever it takes.  Presumably, men face such situations much less than women, so men don't need to turn off their moral compasses as frequently.
 

[robert angel]

I anticipate my fiance to be here (providing the interview goes well) in a couple of weeks.  By the way, she is going on 7 months pregnant and, yes, it (she) is mine.      Anyway, my fiance will bring her four year-old daughter to join my eight year-old son (for whom I share time/responsibility) and I.


 
We both look forward to lots of family fun, cooking together, watching movies, going places and lots of sex!          We're both Catholic and will make it a point to go to church every week.  For her this is the norm but for me this will be different as I've been a twice-a-year-Catholic for a while now (Easter & Christmas).  I would like that we pray together and say prayer at meals.  I think our sharing our relationship with God is very important and will strengthen our union.  Most importantly I want complete and total honesty with one-another in all things. 


 
For those that have already been there, what worked or didn't work for you and your new mate after the honeymoom was over and she (or he) got settled down with you in your new lives? 


 
My biggest concern is that she will be homesick.  However, although she and her daughter live with her parents, she has a strained relationship with her mother and so I don't believe she'll miss her too much.   

 
OG:


Perhaps it's a tad bit early for 'congratulations', but I still feel you deserve some, as your path has typically been challenging enough for most guys who've gotten to where you're at and then you had a few curve balls thrown at you and yet you've stuck to your plans.

 

I wish you the best in all endeavors with your lovely wife and growing family. Thanks for sharing your experience with us. I am sure I'm not alone in hoping you share how things move along after she gets here, adjustment wise and that some of us can learn from your experiences yet.

 
Home sickness? We're thankful for the wonders of modern technology--Skype, Yahoo IM, not too pricey long distance ('real' telephone plans) and a decent amount of folks from my wife's country who we like (but not TOO many) and access to some familiar foods helps.

 
We don't live in a big city or in the country, but my wife's handled it better than I thought. I was ready to buy her a puppy, foreign cable TV packages, cooking classes and more, thinking that'd help--none of that was needed. But maybe the worst, insurmountable sadness is when a loved one's sick or worse and you're helplessly thousands of miles away. No amount of time seems to help in times like that, (money sent for medical care doesn't even stop the sadness really) but we've been fortunate so far.


 
As to "Why did your relationship succeed or fail?"--Wellllll---our next anniversary--still a good while off, will be our seventh, not counting the about four years I dragged my cold, cold feet before I married my own lovely and remarkable wife.


 
Still, I would be afraid to call it a 'success' quite yet, lest I jinx it. Seems that especially on the Latin board side, they count making it to the five year mark together as credible measure of success--I know nobody would ever try and correct me on that or anything else here (yea, RIGHT!) but I kind of see it that way.

 
I'll figure our marriage as a success many years from now, if and when we're buried alongside one another, or maybe if I check out first and I'm cremated, if she's made my ashes into a neat table lamp or something, to fondly remember me by.


 
I think the most important thing--perhaps 'element' that's kept us together so far, is that my wife has managed to not stay very mad at me for too long when I've really, reallly made her mad. And believe you and me, I have managed to do that on a number of occasions!    Recently, we hit a rough patch and it almost lasted two days, an unfortunate new record for us--but we put away the hand grenades and it's all squeeezes and kissy missy again--thank you Jesus, thank you Lord!


 
Honestly, when I get her angry, it's not like we're throwing plates or that sort of thing, but there's no doubt that she's unhappy. Further more, even if I could afford it, a new car or an expensive piece of jewelry--'material things;' wouldn't really fix it. It takes time and a real, true, genuine apology when that's called for. She's a got a pretty good shytometer...That and especially a little 'TLC" after the rocket's red glare of our disagreement has began to fade a bit --that helps a lot. 


 
Speaking of which-- for all you guys getting ready to set up house, in terms of "TLC" and heated arguments (and you'd be surprised how those two ingredients can make a hot dish) if there's kids or other people in the house, I strongly suggest you think about a home that incorporates the 'split bedroom plan'--it eliminates the problem that a ruckus and a rumbus in the (rumbus isn't a real word, but hey--make of it what you will)  bedroom can sometimes create. Either that or egg crates on the inside of the bedroom door to keep the sound level down!


 
I was married once before this, for fourteen years ( we went to Mississippi and got married at age seven) and this time around, the first years in this rodeo have been better. Still, tomorrows' don't come with promises--- if they do come at all, and folks can grow closer together, or irreparably apart and I don't take anything for granted. If it all fell apart tomorrow, I try and think that I'd be thankful for the good years and not dwell upon things lost, save for some lessons learned along the way I ought not forget.
 
I dunno--maybe we've stayed married this long because when she thinks of me, she secretly pretends each day is 'Be kind to animals day".....


 
It kills me when I read about people who claim to have been married 50 plus years and have never went to bed mad at each other, or even more unbelievable to me, say they've never had an argument. Malarky--or Bunk!!, as my Dad used to say to me....

 
Arguments, fights, disagreements, call them what you will, but they're gonna come, as real as rain. It's all about how you handle it while arguing, being able to apologise,  hopefully learning a lesson or two along the way and how long you let it last before you reconcile or otherwise call it quits that makes all the difference, in my opinion.
 

Sure there's other stuff that's important, like showing concern and respect for one another's culture and family, but not being too thin skinned and getting over life's problems and disagreements, without showing your ass too much, or for too long, really helps!

[z_k_g]

In the long run, a woman's behavior is determined by her environment.  Women do not have an internal moral compass the way men do. 

Wow!
 
 What type of women are you dealing with?

You mean, ALL women?

If you put the best woman in the world into mainstream American culture, she will become a vile bitch.  It may take a while, but it will happen.

hmmm....I have to agree with this one.

To keep a woman sane, encourage her to spend time in good environments.  Churches can provide this if they are conservative.  Any church where women dress decently should be fine.  Catholicism was a reasonably good religion 20 years ago, but since then it has gone down the drain and become a liberal disaster.  I suggest that Catholics switch to Eastern Orthodox Christianity which is very similar but is still conservative.  Anabaptist Christianity, Orthodox Judaism, and Islam are also fine religions.

Nah, just pick the right one and develop a strong interpersonal relationship with her.

If possible, I recommend living in immigrant neighborhoods.  Almost any other culture is superior (for women) to American culture.  I have lived in a Chinese neighborhood and a Mexican neighborhood.  Both are fine.

Neighborhoods are extremely important, but ONLY immigrant neighborhoods?

I also recommend traveling abroad once in a while.  This can be to her country or anywhere else.  Traveling reinforces the fact that America is not normal.

Traveling to her own country is good.

I have been married for 21 years, so I must be doing something right.

Yes, in YOUR own relationship you are doing something right.....but this post....not so much is right.

I think you are off the mark in quite a few areas.

Zulu

[V_Man]

AB your anology is not gay. It's good. Except that one person can tend a garden whereas that will not suffice in a marriage.

One thing that I think is extremely important is that both people actually are committed to marriage. In the western world up to 10% of men and 40% of women that get married are not really committed to the reality of marriage. More and more western women love the ceremony, the social status and the concept of marriage. They just are not actually committed to being married.
In the western world marriage has become like a television series.
A: "It lasted for 8 years."
B: "Well, that was a good run."

I think if both are determined to remain married then they work at it and seek solutions to the inevitable problems that life throws up.

Another thing that I think is important is to help the other person feel appreciated.

[OrlandoGringo]

Robert, it sounds like you've got a great thing going so congratulations to you and to your lovely lady! 
 
My ex-wife (Colombian) is the first to get offended and the last to forgive and it didn't take much to set her off.  Frankly, she was just incredibly illogical and unreasonable.  I NEVER should have married her but I was too damn stupid to see the red flags that were flying everywhere to end it before it started. 
 
My fiance, on the contrary, has an incredible temperament.  She is very fun-loving, super easy-going and very, very slow to anger.  She is quick to forgive and forget.  We've had a couple of arguments but we got past them pretty quick.  Unlike my ex, she is able to say "I'm sorry...I was wrong" as I too am able to do.  Also, unlike my ex, she is not at all complicated.  My ex was always worried about what other people would think and about class status (big in Colombia) whereas my fiance comes from a very humble background (not dirt poor) and doesn't give a darn about "status".  She's real down-to-earth, like me.  We have incredible chemistry together. 
 
One thing I will NOT do is "require" her to learn English.  It's her decision.  My son is bilingual so it won't be a problem for him.  I can speak some too.  We'll get along just fine.  If she wants to learn English I'll help her but it's her choice. 
 
One of the things I insisted on going into the relationship was that 1)I am the man of the house and 2) She must submit to me...just a little and 3)I will worhsip and adore her if she will always be very feminine for me with regard to her behavior, attitude and the way she dresses.  I believe men and women are equal but have different roles.  She agrees with this concept. 
 
I am most hopeful and confident for our future but I know there will be challenges.  Is there an unforeseen challenge that will damage us?  I think the big thing we both have going for us is our mutual maturity.  I am 45 with a son and she is 34 with a daughter.  We've both been around and have experienced the disintegrations of relationships that were supposed to be forever.  I think I'll get her best effort as I intend to give mine. 
 
I agree that, sometimes, you need to suck it up and go with the flow and get along.  If one person wants everything their way all the time then it's not going to be a harmonious union.  There must be mutual respect and consideration for the other.  We'll see how it goes and, good or bad, I'll let y'all know what happens. 
 
Thanks to all for the well wishes and your perspectives.  Keep 'em coming!   

[Ray]

Do you have any scientific evidence to support that or you say that just based on your observation?

 

...my wife tells me the gossip from her friends.

 
 
Well, it appears that he is getting much of his information from seconhand girly gossip, so why should anyone take any of his stupid nonsense seriously?
 
 
 
 
 
 

[thekfc]

Well, it appears that he is getting much of his information from seconhand girly gossip, so why should anyone take any of his stupid nonsense seriously?

Don't forget his mother & daughter.

[InnocentVixen]

While I find science entertaining to read I am more curious of what kind of woman was fschmidt's ex to make him think that way or previous novias/prometidas if the ex is american, after all if he is so certain it just means it happened to him and it's somewhere he doesn't want to go back right?


" If you put the best woman in the world into mainstream American culture, she will become a vile bitch.  It may take a while, but it will happen. "



I agree that she had a weak personality and was not the right woman for you to start with, it's like those rare good american women out there, they are somehow not affected by mainstream american culture, in fact I hate to admit it but that makes them sound even more of a gem (personality wise)than a foreign wife if you think about it, already tested and unaffected!


I also think that a man that doesn't truly love his wife/novia and wants her as arm candy might think this way (vile bitch = aging), feeling it's time to get a newer model after a while. For example if it took a while she was aging gracefully... if she wasn't then she got kicked to the curb pretty fast. It's amazing what some men are willing to put up to for a pretty face and decent curves and how fast they lose interest when that starts to fade. Not saying this is you fschmidt's, just saying that I've seen this happen and your comment reminded me of it.

[fschmidt]

While I find science entertaining to read I am more curious of what kind of woman was fschmidt's ex to make him think that way

I have no ex.  I made the right choice the first time.

I agree that she had a weak personality and was not the right woman for you to start with, it's like those rare good american women out there, they are somehow not affected by mainstream american culture

I have never met a decent American woman.  According to my theory, a decent American woman in mainstream culture cannot exist and my experience confirms this.

[thekfc]

I have never met a decent American woman.  According to my theory, a decent American woman in mainstream culture cannot exist and my experience confirms this.

[CeeTeeEnn]

Brazilophile, you are making explosive claims here. Are you suggesting a biological explanation for women's percieved mendacity? If so, might your opinions be influenced at least in part by your experiences with Brazilian women? I offer no comment but suggest this topic might warrant further analysis and discussion by other P-L members (...Vixen and BrazilGirl?)

Might the true reasons for womens incessant lying in the face of overwhelming contrary evidence or malicious gossiping have less to do with biology or genetics, and more to do with the fact that too many men in the past have excused their behaviour on "female logic", "tender emotions", "uncomplicated simple nature" or even "the wrong time of month" etc. and in turn generations of less-than-trustworthy women have learned how to play the "pussy pass" to their advantage...?

Just a suggestion.

[braziliangirl]

Are you suggesting a biological explanation for women's percieved mendacity? If so, might your opinions be influenced at least in part by your experiences with Brazilian women?

Ugh! 

[Brazilophile]

Brazilophile, you are making explosive claims here. Are you suggesting a biological explanation for women's percieved mendacity? If so, might your opinions be influenced at least in part by your experiences with Brazilian women? I offer no comment but suggest this topic might warrant further analysis and discussion by other P-L members (...Vixen and BrazilGirl?)

I am not aware that I made any claims at all, explosive or otherwise.  I gave anecdotal evidence that tends to support fschmidt's claims.  I did not specify the nationality of the women in question.  Why are you assuming the women were Brazilian?

Might the true reasons for womens incessant lying in the face of overwhelming contrary evidence or malicious gossiping have less to do with biology or genetics, and more to do with the fact that too many men in the past have excused their behaviour on "female logic", "tender emotions", "uncomplicated simple nature" or even "the wrong time of month" etc. and in turn generations of less-than-trustworthy women have learned how to play the "pussy pass" to their advantage...?

Just a suggestion.

I gave a possible reason for the behavior - one that was suggested by a woman.  Please re-read my post more carefully.  Biology and genetics were not involved.

Suggestion rejected.
 

[CeeTeeEnn]

Fair enough Brazilophile, i apologise if i got the wrong end of the stick here regarding Brazileras - I merely made a comment in light-hearted reference to your screen name.

Nevertheless, the possible reason you cite for the female behaviour you describe suggests (at least to me) that women are somehow preprogrammed to lie in order to avoid potentially dangerous confrontations, and in doing so (sic) "turn off whatever internal moral compass (they) may have, and (do) whatever it takes" in a manner that men do not.

That is IMO a contentious point of view. I am not arguing against it nor criticising its messenger. Nevertheless I feel such an idea is worthy of further exploration and discussion here, specifically with international and intercultural relationships in mind.

[Brazilophile]

Fair enough Brazilophile, i apologise if i got the wrong end of the stick here regarding Brazileras - I merely made a comment in light-hearted reference to your screen name.

Nevertheless, the possible reason you cite for the female behaviour you describe suggests (at least to me) that women are somehow preprogrammed to lie in order to avoid potentially dangerous confrontations, and in doing so (sic) "turn off whatever internal moral compass (they) may have, and (do) whatever it takes" in a manner that men do not.

That is IMO a contentious point of view. I am not arguing against it nor criticising its messenger. Nevertheless I feel such an idea is worthy of further exploration and discussion here, specifically with international and intercultural relationships in mind.

CTN,

Misrepresenting my words is NOT the way to encourage further discussion of the ideas in my post.

If you had quoted the entire italicized phrase and kept the subject in the singular, it would be clear that I stated that a woman chooses to turn off her moral compass.  There is no pre-programming involved.  And I stated that man may also choose to turn off his moral compass, just less frequently than women because of the fighting option that is more often available to us.

What may be interesting to discuss further is the level of likelihood of a confrontation and its potential for danger (or shame, or loss of face) at which a woman may decide to turn of her moral compass.  And/or any rationalizations that a woman may conjure to justify (to herself) turning off her moral compass.  That discussion can apply to men as well.

[robert angel]

Moral Compass? I thought everyone was using GPS units these days!

[Chris F]

I anticipate my fiance to be here (providing the interview goes well) in a couple of weeks.  By the way, she is going on 7 months pregnant and, yes, it (she) is mine.      Anyway, my fiance will bring her four year-old daughter to join my eight year-old son (for whom I share time/responsibility) and I.
 
We both look forward to lots of family fun, cooking together, watching movies, going places and lots of sex!          We're both Catholic and will make it a point to go to church every week.  For her this is the norm but for me this will be different as I've been a twice-a-year-Catholic for a while now (Easter & Christmas).  I would like that we pray together and say prayer at meals.  I think our sharing our relationship with God is very important and will strengthen our union.  Most importantly I want complete and total honesty with one-another in all things. 
 
For those that have already been there, what worked or didn't work for you and your new mate after the honeymoom was over and she (or he) got settled down with you in your new lives? 
 
My biggest concern is that she will be homesick.  However, although she and her daughter live with her parents, she has a strained relationship with her mother and so I don't believe she'll miss her too much.   

Hello Orlando!!

I have been married now for six years to a woman I courted in Peru. I will say it's VERY TRUE what others have said about the courting process. Romantic phone calls, internet video chat, and two week vacations in your wife's country is nice, sweet, and romantic, but not reality. Once she is here, and you are working again you are now dealing with reality.

I have to be honest with you. I think you made a mistake in getting her pregnant before she even arrived here and dealt with the real reality of being with someone full time here. If I may ask, why was it important for you to get her pregnant before she spent any real time with you here? Since you have been married before to someone from Colombia I know you understand how the real side of people will come out when your with them full time.
Everyone has a good side, a bad side, and an ugly side. You never get to see each others ugly side until that person starts living with you here full time. This is when you will really get to know if you two are right for each other.
 You would have been better off waiting to see if the dynamics of your relationship with each other would be the same once she had been here for a period of time before getting her pregnant

Just my two cents. I do wish you the best and I hope you keep us updated here.
 
 

[Ray]

I have to be honest with you. I think you made a mistake in getting her pregnant before she even arrived here and dealt with the real reality of being with someone full time here. If I may ask, why was it important for you to get her pregnant before she spent any real time with you here?

 
Probably because he is 45 and she is 34(?)
 
 
As a woman of 34, you don't have the luxury of waiting 2-3 years before you start trying to get pregnant, if you really want to have more children. Better do it while everything is still working... 
 
 
Ray
 
 
 

[JWR]

Probably because it's been too long since these guys have been to a high school sex ed class.
 
A women having to deal with adjusting to living in the US, and also being pregnant while getting to know a guy that she has most likely spent very little real time with is a pretty tough way to start.  It's risky enough without taking the stakes off the chart with a new baby involved.
 
Wrap it up until you are sure it's really going to work here guys.
 

 
Probably because he is 45 and she is 34(?)
 
 
As a woman of 34, you don't have the luxury of waiting 2-3 years before you start trying to get pregnant, if you really want to have more children. Better do it while everything is still working... 
 
 
Ray

[Ray]

Probably because it's been too long since these guys have been to a high school sex ed class.
 
A women having to deal with adjusting to living in the US, and also being pregnant while getting to know a guy that she has most likely spent very little real time with is a pretty tough way to start.  It's risky enough without taking the stakes off the chart with a new baby involved.
 
Wrap it up until you are sure it's really going to work here guys.

 
For a young woman with many child-bearing years left, that may be good advice.
 
But for a lady in her mid 30's, the chances of successfully getting pregnant are getting slimmer every year she waits.
 
And how long will it take until you are really sure that the marriage is going to work? 3 years? 5 years? Can you ever be really sure?
 
 
Ray
 
 

[Chris F]

 
Probably because he is 45 and she is 34(?)
 
 
As a woman of 34, you don't have the luxury of waiting 2-3 years before you start trying to get pregnant, if you really want to have more children. Better do it while everything is still working... 
 
 
Ray

Times have changed and there are many woman who are getting pregnant now pushing forty and into their forties.
She is 34. While I am not saying she has plenty of time left she could afford to wait a little to see how things were going to work out.
His original post was about why realtionships succeed or fail, In my opinion and I know others who have gone through this process before including Orlando, getting your woman pregnant before she arrives is probably not the best recipe for success for most international couples but I do wish him the best.
 

[Alabamaboy!]

Even though it is biologically possible for an older woman to have a child, I think it is not a very good idea because most older women do not have the energy to keep up with a young child. And the child will pay the price by either being raised by a nanny or an older woman who is not able to keep up. Of course there always exceptions to the rule. Sofia Vergara seems like she still has a lot of life in her.

[braziliangirl]

I guess that's true over 50 or something... I know many 40+ women that run marathons, so they could easily run after a kid.

Same thing applies to the father. He has to have a lot of energy raise a kid. And marrying a 20 yo woman won't bring that energy back.

Even though it is biologically possible for an older woman to have a child, I think it is not a very good idea because most older women do not have the energy to keep up with a young child. And the child will pay the price by either being raised by a nanny or an older woman who is not able to keep up. Of course there always exceptions to the rule. Sofia Vergara seems like she still has a lot of life in her.