Are you sure you want to bring her home?

[vikingo]

z_k_g, taking the risk to become unpopular with those who are involved with Filipinos, I must disagree. I clearly said you are expected to, not have to support the entire family. To be fair, I will withdraw the word 'entire' and replace it instead with the words 'certain members' of the family. You said so yourself, it is customary to help aging parents or help with education of young people. Now if poor members of the family ship in, what would be expected of someone from a First World country who usually has an income which exeeds that of all the family members combined? Can you say with a clear concience you are not going to help at all?
 
Ray mentioned Social Security in the Philippines. If it does exist, one would have to pay into the system for many years and would have to have had a steady job usually for decades, to qualify, just like anywhere else. SS excludes all part time workers and usually those working in agriculture or the lifestock industry and whatever else type of work they find in their desperation to feed their family, including those that get paid under the table by unscrupulous employers.
 
I would like to ask anyone who married a Filipina, are you not helping certain family members on a monthly basis?

[vikingo]

I would like to add something important to my opening statement on this thread. If it is the case that your beloved colombiana has a child or two and you wish to bring em all home with you, you have an other serious obstacle to content with. Guess what, under most circumstances the little darling is very much attached to dear dad and Colombian fathers are usualy in the lifes of their children even if he is a deadbeat or hasn't worked a day in his life and is living with his mom, and he isn't going to let his child out of the country and lose all contact with it. And you do need his permission. I have heard of a case where a gringo in his desperation bought dad a brand new car, just to get him to sign the paperwork.

[robert angel]

Kingly!

Maybe we should go a little easier on P-L's very own Royal Highney.....
 

[z_k_g]

Ray,

In the Russia, North Korea and Iran there is also democracy.

The SSS in the Philippines is working well just as democracy is in these countries.

Oh yes, and Social Security care for the Filipino children is working "exceptionally" well.

Zulu

[z_k_g]

Maybe we should go a little easier on P-L's very own Royal Highney.....
 

Spot on!!

Zulu

[robert angel]

In my experience I see women arriving in the US quickly discover they can get younger and at times wealthier men than what they have and met in their home country.
 
Well, I suppose it depends on the type of woman you choose to marry. In all endeavors, there's some risk, but again, with time and wisdom, risk can usually be lessened.
 
Also men that are much more subservient and accepting of being told what to do.

 
If a guy's a subservient wimp, well--that's what he is, regardless of where he lives and to whom he's married.


 If you cannot make a living overseas than I guess i understand why you would bring her home.

 
Might work for you, but it's most not certainly for everyone, regardless of whether they're able to (and wanting to) live and make a living financially (if necessary) abroad.I have never really understood the logic of dislodging a womwn from her culture and family.
 

I guess you feel physically dislodging yourself from your own culture and family to be with hers is better for you, (or for your marriage--assuming you're even or ever have been married) although in today's modern world, staying in daily communication with family worldwide is often possible.
 

In my experience if they have a good family it keeps them in balance.
 

 
In my experience, if a woman has been raised in a good family, she will have good roots from that upbringing,  roots that hopefully have grown into good, long lasting character. They will hopefully follow them wherever life may take them, be it the four winds and seven seas. Depending on the strength of these roots, and yes, living abroad changes everyone to differing extents in my opinion, your situation may vary. We see a lot of absolute statements and gross generalizations here on P-L and they rarely transfer well into real life situations.

 

But if you are "marrying" a women 20 years younger or so, than to me that means blending families. So you have to ask what is her family going to think of her marrying someone much older.
 

You marry somebody, you are blending families to some extent, period. If you have to come straight out and ask her or your own family if age is an issue, there might well be an issue. Personally, I was slow and cautious about considering possible age difference issues and over time, it became obvious on its own, in a quite natural way, that it wasn't an issue to our families. Truth be told, the person who was most worried about it was myself and those worries concerned what our families would think, which, as explained (in our case)  proved to be a non issue. They were more concerned about our character and maturity level than about any age difference.
 

 
If the family is strong and educated they may see the wisdom of this because people have been marrying for status, wealth and position much longer than for intuitive love.
 

The same can be said for a lower class/educated family, however you will have to deal with the opinions of the uneducated.
 

I am much more cautious than you in making generalizations about the strength, wisdom, status and position of people, based on their economic status, but that's just how my wife and I were taught to regard people by our own families.
 

Soit get back to the family and thier expectations because you are "marrying" which to me means most likley kids in the picture (not always). That means long term bonds. Now if you are creating children why have their grandparents so far away. I would not want my grandkids living far from me. Would you?
 

Do you have chidren, Sensai? Where do they live?  Having Grandparents, Aunts and Uncles nearby is optimum, no doubt, (provided they are good influences) but the reality is that when you are living in her, or your own country, you can usually only afford close proximity to one side of the family or the other. Make your own choice--if there's kids involved, I would consider the availability of multi cultural exposure, a first world education and  excellent medical facility availibilty rather important.

 
This goes back to disolving communities to produce wealth through real estate speculation. We in the US see no problem uprooting and moving to another community to take a profit.

 I think this was true in the USA up until about 2007--2008, when the housing 'bubble' crashed and people stopped buying and flipping houses every few years for a quick profit, as if they were trading baseball cards. Sounds like you've been out of the loop in the USA for quite a while. I've never been there, but last time I heard, real estate in Costa Rica has gotten a bit pricey in recent years--the gringo effect, or whatever. I've also heard that gringos are quite as welcome there as they once were.  If you plan on buying a home and living there in whatever country you please, until you die in bed in that home, power to you---it's worked well for most of mankind for thousands of years.


In Costa Rica you rarley see this happen.
 
Familes live in close proximity to one another. They see it as an advantage,
 
So here is an important cultural diference: proximity of family and importance of money.
 
This is all relative to the the lifestyle one chooses for one's self, namely priorities,  regardless of location.
 
Do you really want to take her away from her rock (family). Well if she is educated and experienced and has defined goals - maybe.

 
Do you want to remove yourself from your nation, family and culture and minimize her exposure (for whatever reason) from your own 'rock'--your family, so she can stay with hers? I would think it's a mutual decison to be made very cautiously. If she is educated and experienced in her own country, why would you seem to be even more inclined to move her from what would seemingly be more her 'comfort zone' in her own country?
 
If she has no life or way of thinking other than her family and community - I would say don't do it. (but what do I know). Just my excriment you know.

 
If she has  (quote) " no life or way of thinking other than her life and community", you may have a real simpleton on your hands and a host of issues to deal with, besides your own....
 
Now if she is "preggars" (hahahaha) well that is different story again now is it not???

 

Being with woman who is bearing a child, ESPECIALLY your child, changes everything, if you're a real man.

[robert angel]

“But if she loves you she will do so in a way that will be respectful and try to nudge you in the right direction without disrespecting you, if she doesn't care about you then you will be just her personal ATM.”Wow is that “spot-on” or what?
 
Well, you pick your woman yourself--what you get is what you picked. Overall, your happiness, the smile, or the egg on your face, or the 'spot on' your pants is entirely your doing....
 
“I think it's a matter of personality on both parts and I feel what we are talking about here is about dominating the other, which might work good in an arrangement of sorts but not in a marriage, since without respect there can't be love, without love there is no point in marriage if you ask me.”
 
 
 "Dominating"? Typically works well for a while, but inevitably back fires. Personally, I want no caged bird.
 
“Yowser” Inovix…. Quite right mate.However remember that are at least four loves according to C.S. Lewis:Erotic loveNeed loveGift loveFriendship loveTo have all four is rare.
 
CS Lewis was a gifted writer no doubt, one of many great, Irish 'tortured souls' who left Ireland to achieve literary greatness than would otherwise probably have never been realized. As for love, his best friends and family members have acknowledged that he also had long, fifth sort of "love", namely a sexual relationship with his adopted Mother. Yowser indeed. (although you seemed soo offended by such word) I find the sources of your 'knowledge' and quotes most interesting.

 Without respectful love, there is no marriage. This is the point as what we all long for is to be heard and respected. Carefulness is the basis of respectful love. To care enough to consider the other’s feeling about what you say before you say it anchors a solid relationship.
 
EXCELLENT points! If only we, including myself, could practice this more, engaging mind before putting mouth in gear....

Communication is important. However, women try to deluge a relationship with words and think they are communicating. Many times, they are merely confusing rather than communicating.
 
I think this is a problem that is not exclusive to either gender by any means...A nagging wife's words falling on a husband's deaf ears, or a ranting husband's words falling on desensitized woman's ears, come to mind. Balance......

 Quantity of word is no substitution for quality.
 
Yes.
 
Long winded or short winded does not matter as long as there is meat to the conversation, which progresses the topic or makes the other consider a different angle.

Too much 'meat' leads to heart disease. Too little leads to malnutrition--even death. In dietary, ie  in food, as well as in verbal communication, 'balance' is best, although great 'communication' entails far, far more than 'talk'--can you 'hear' me....?

[fathertime]

All this talk about power struggles and who is the 'boss' is a little silly in my opinion. 


I DO believe that having a sometimes hostile attitude at times or 'you're not going to crap on me' attitude is useful to have in the toolbag AT TIMES.  Overall being helpful and putting the wife's needs right at the top of the list goes a long way to making a good marriage.  If a man doesn't feel that he can do this or he doesn't want to, well then he may be better off being as Researcher says a 'sport dater'.   


I sometimes get the feeling guys want absolutely everything on their checklist: 


Here are a few items.


1.  15-20 years younger than you
2.  Very attractive
3.  Willing to bear your children
4. Devoted to her husband
5  Very attentive to prior children that at not hers.
6.  Always able to communicate her problems, without displacement of irritation.
7.  Able to adapt quickly to new country.
8 Willing to cook meals, and clean house and diaper children at all times.


I started out with the first 4 and have slowly attempted to build some of the other traits.   My feeling is we got to be realistic here!  Gadzooks, I enjoy cooking some of the meals, and my prior children are my responsibility anyway!


Fathertime! 

[robert angel]

This is totally UNTRUE!

The fact is most Filipino families have many children that help the mother and father in their twilight years.  This is mainly because there is no social security in the Philippines and taking care of the older parents and sometimes the younger children who may need funds to attend college falls on the older siblings.

However all of the children (and the husbands and wives of the children) share in the care and support of the parents.

You are not obligated to spend one piso on the "entire family".  In fact you are not even obligated to help support the parents, but its the Filipino way and part of the tradition, and you not only married a beautiful pinay but you have also adopted some of her culture.

If you marry a scammer she will encourage you to assist relatives, friends family and with all type of emergencies and special requests for cash, ie the "sick buffalo", etc, but this is not normal and not exclusive to the Philippines and can happen in LA, Russia, or anywhere else.

"You have support a pinays entire family" is a lie that is told over and over again and should be stopped.

Zulu

 
Zulu, Zulu, Zulu.....
I think you still have a lot more to learn about Filipino culture. Support of the family from a Filipina who moves abroad to live with a foreign husband will of course vary from situation to situation. I try to caution against absolutes and generalizations. But something important you don't mention is age order, male and female gender differences and earning ability.
 
Often, a female with the same amount of money she can afford to send home as her brother who a little older or next in line younger may have to give,  the female will send more than the brother/s. Females will also be more likely to take sick parents into their homes than males sometimes.
 
That can vary too--I have a brother in law who will literally leave himself broke after providing things--some of which aren't even 'necessities', to his parents. We all know people, here and perhaps abroad, who are 'generous to a fault'. My late uncle and my younger sister are like that and they were born and raised right here and my brother in law would give you the 'shirt off his back', along with his shoes.....
 
There's sometimes a tendency for the eldest siblings to provide more than the younger siblings who follow, even though the younger ones actually could give more. The type of 'giving back' to the family seems in many instances, to be decreasing within the younger age groups of siblings within individual families in the Philippines. Things are really changing there faster than ever. Old ways are breaking down.
 
I think if you just 'go along' with the old saying "You marry a Filipina, you also marry her family" and your life will be much easier if you marry a Filipina. I am not saying you will HAVE to send a single dollar, or insinuating that you wouldn't. moral support --showing love and respect, is at least important as monetary support and that (again)  falls well within the saying: "You marry a Filipina, you also marry her family" .
 
If a guy marries a scammer and she expects--or wants him fund friends in businesses or other ways, then he got taken in as a sucker. I've loaned thousands of dollars to family in the Philippines (I DON'T recommend doing that) and have always gotten every cent back, although it sometimes takes a while and I've never kept reminding them or demanded written, notarized loan papers.
 
They have a sort of social security there, but if ours is a bad joke, there's is even worse. They do have (in my opinion anyway) a decent, affordable govt. health insurance system you have to pay a bit into, one that covers some basic things. No, it doesn't cover enough to greatly lessen deaths from heart disease, cancer or diabetes, to name a few terrible ailments common there, but it's suprising that they have anything at all to me.
 
Furthermore, the obligation to help support one another among the Filipino community goes beyond family. When someone in the Filipino community here has as a family member abroad die and is not with much in savings, it is not uncommon for Filipinos who aren't even related, to give a $100 or more each to help fund airfare to fly him/her home and provide a decent funeral. We have a close Filipina friend who's Mom is dying and my wife would not mind for a second if I wrote a $35.000 check in the hope that a bone marrow transplant would save or at least prolong her life.
 
It's just the way many of them think---they view money and life in somewhat different ways than many Americans do. My wife spends cautiously, but when it comes to serious medical issues, money is just paper useful to alieve others horrible physical pain and prevent premature death.
 
So, I give you creds when you stated:
 
>>>You are not obligated to spend one piso on the "entire family".  In fact you are not even obligated to help support the parents, but its the Filipino way and part of the tradition, and you not only married a beautiful pinay but you have also adopted some of her culture<<<

 
But there's a lot more to it than that--a lot of grey area and it varies from one person/family to another, but the 'Filipino Situation' is hard to fathom sometimes. In over 20 years, being married to two different Filipinas, I'm still learning!

[z_k_g]

Robert,

My post was pretty self explanatory and was in response to what I think is a false and very negative generalization.

You are NOT required to support an pinay's "entire" family and I said as much, that was the ONLY POINT I wanted to make in my post.

I think you will agree?

Thanks for the followup and further clarifications, but I think I made my point quite clearly.

I didn't mention age order, etc thanks for that addition.

Zulu

[z_k_g]

All this talk about power struggles and who is the 'boss' is a little silly in my opinion. 

FT, boss and leader are two different roles in a relationship that can be mutually exclusive.  You can lead and not necessarily be the "boss" on a day to day basis. You can boss the family as most women do and not be the leader of the family as most men (unfortunately not in America) are.

I DO believe that having a sometimes hostile attitude at times or 'you're not going to crap on me' attitude is useful to have in the toolbag AT TIMES.  Overall being helpful and putting the wife's needs right at the top of the list goes a long way to making a good marriage.  If a man doesn't feel that he can do this or he doesn't want to, well then he may be better off being as Researcher says a 'sport dater'. 

sport dater?

punter or monger

I sometimes get the feeling guys want absolutely everything on their checklist: 

Here are a few items.

1.  15-20 years younger than you
2.  Very attractive
3.  Willing to bear your children
4. Devoted to her husband
5  Very attentive to prior children that at not hers.
6.  Always able to communicate her problems, without displacement of irritation.
7.  Able to adapt quickly to new country.
8 Willing to cook meals, and clean house and diaper children at all times.

I started out with the first 4 and have slowly attempted to build some of the other traits.   My feeling is we got to be realistic here!  Gadzooks, I enjoy cooking some of the meals, and my prior children are my responsibility anyway!
 

1 thru 4, I concur.

I would add...

9. Reasonably intelligent

Zulu

[thekfc]

I would like to ask anyone who married a Filipina, are you not helping certain family members on a monthly basis?

My wife have the freedom to send money back as she pleases. She have a separate bank account which I open for her & deposited money into plus she also have one of those "evil" credit card (it have only been use once in about 6 months).
 
She (we) is (are) not sending money on a monthly basis - the only person she do send money to is her mother but not on a monthly basis. On special ocassions we do send money or gifts - her nieces birthdays, graduations, etc,. We send the money on these ocassion because it is cheaper to buy the gifts, cake & food there in person  than if we were to buy them online & have it delivered. We do send Balikbayan Boxes fill with clothing, shoes, can goods, electronics, movies, music, etc,.
 
Most guys end up marrying the oldest sibling who sometimes is the bread earner in the family & the wife usually support the family back home, help send to school, etc, etc,.
My situation is a little different (opposite) as my wife is in her early 30's and is the youngest of 7 siblings. All of her siblings went to college & she was the last. Just about all her siblings & their spouses are working as well as a few of the older nieces/nephews. They all have their own house (some more than one) & well as two family farms. She do not have that "added pressure" that some do have.
 
But as always ymmv as every situation is a bit different.

[OrlandoGringo]

I'm going to speculate that a 25 year-old may have more difficulty adjusting than one that is 35.  Why?  The older woman is more likely to be more experienced, less idealistic and much more APPRECIATIVE.  My 34 year-old fiance is very pleased that I am willing to both love and care for her as well as her four year-old daughter.  Experience brings wisdom and wisdom brings appreciation.  Young women with no real-world experience lack perspective and, accordingly, "wisdom" and the ability to recognize and appreciate a good thing (like a quality gringo).  This is why I avoided the twenty-something "princesses" running rampant on Cupid, etc.     

[V_Man]

@OG - Finally someone stating the fundamental truth. Guys pick girls under 30 and then spend all their time fretting about the risks. Some guys need to get out more and get the big head into gear.

[OrlandoGringo]

Thanks V.  I'm flying high right now so I have all the answers.  But if she gets here and it all turns to muck then I'm just another dumbass.      I guess the adage about "nothing ventured nothing gained" is true.  There is risk in everything in life.  I hope my great venture works out because if it doesn't I will be extremely depressed.  I have given all I can give into our relationship.  With that said, I am most confident that we will be happy together through the bad times as well as the good. 

[z_k_g]

@OG - Finally someone stating the fundamental truth. Guys pick girls under 30 and then spend all their time fretting about the risks. Some guys need to get out more and get the big head into gear.

Vman,

What fundamental truth are you referring?

I've dated women from 20 to 49 and all women end up being individuals.  They are not just "groups". 

I know many 35 year-olds that I would never marry and there are many women in their 20's who would make excellent wives.

Further, picking a suitable partner is not all about banging the youngest hottest foreign babe you can find.

I think you are projecting your views and motivations concerning why a man would pursue a young woman (in her 20's).

I consider your statement false and NOT a fundamental truth.

Zulu

[OrlandoGringo]

Zulu, I think you are correct to say that women are individuals.  There are definitley young women out there with their heads screwed on straight and who are solid human beings.  There are also experienced women who have not, apparently, learned anything at all.  Generally speaking I think a 45 year-old dude has a better chance of a successful relationship with a 35 year-old than one that is 25.  But I trust there are exceptions.   

[V_Man]

Further, picking a suitable partner is not all about banging the youngest hottest foreign babe you can find.

This is the fundamental truth I was refering to.

However getting back to age.
1. If a women is past the mid tweenties than yes she can be excellent marriage material.
2. Not withstanding point 1 above, if she is younger than (approximately) 30 your risks are much higher.
3.

I know many 35 year-olds that I would never marry and there are many women in their 20's who would make excellent wives.

Well duh!
(a) if you are so stupid that you married a 35 year old woman that you have already figured out you should not marry then I have an excellent investment opportunity I'd like to tell you about.
(b) obviously most guys here are looking to marry a foriegn woman with considerably more communication hurdles than they would otherwise have. People that facilitate the notion that a 20 something woman in this situation carries the same risk as a woman with more life experience is simply being misleading.

I think you are projecting your views and motivations concerning why a man would pursue a young woman (in her 20's).

Don't like the message so we're attacking the messager are we?
 Mate if one wants to chase the 20 something girls in Latin America then please go flat out. Excellent! I just ask that one prefaces one's posts with this significant fact so we can see things in that perspective.

[Ray]

Ray,

In the Russia, North Korea and Iran there is also democracy.

The SSS in the Philippines is working well just as democracy is in these countries.

Oh yes, and Social Security care for the Filipino children is working "exceptionally" well.

Zulu

 
HUH? Russia? North Korea? Iran?
 
 
Hello! Planet Earth to zulu...
 
 
 
 
 

[vikingo]

OG, are you planning on taking your bride to the States with you and if yes, have you checked into it if the father of the four year old will give permission for the child to leave Colombia and is he in her life?
I agree, a woman with child is definetely less problematic and more appreciative than one without.

[OrlandoGringo]

Vickingo, the father sees his daughter infrequently and his financial support is on and off.  He has given his consent and will soon be signing some legal documents in the presence of a notary (or their version of one) that will alllow my fiance to leave the country with her daughter.  She will also present said documentation to the embassy for her interview, that is, if they ask about it which I would think they would.  Thanks for asking. 

[z_k_g]

 
HUH? Russia? North Korea? Iran?
 
 
Hello! Planet Earth to zulu...
 
 
 

Ray,

That's called sarcasm......................

Zulu

[z_k_g]

Don't like the message so we're attacking the messager are we?
 Mate if one wants to chase the 20 something girls in Latin America then please go flat out. Excellent! I just ask that one prefaces one's posts with this significant fact so we can see things in that perspective.

Vman,

No attack intended.

I just don't agree with this "group" thing that you are espousing in your post. 

On a few occasions members (primarily thekfc) have "corrected" Zulu for using the word "all" and "never" and I've had to back up and correct myself.

You are doing the same with your age groups.

I can agree that in most cases you may be right about women in the "under 30 group" but not in "all" cases.

You cannot date or marry a group. Statistics are just numbers and can never represent an individual.  You ultimately deal with an individual not a "group" (that is represented by averages or probabilities).

Zulu

[V_Man]

Zulu of course you are correct. All people are individuals. Also if you are living in country and speak the lingo then you can take all the time in the world to work out if that hot latin 22 year old is going to remain stable through the ups and downs of life.

However I think a lot of guys starting out need a reality check. 

I can agree that in most cases you may be right about women in the "under 30 group" but not in "all" cases.

So in fact we are in agreement. Note that I did not use the word "all".
I have no problem with anyone chasing 20 year olds. If you are in your thirties, you probably should.  Just be aware that the risks are significantly higher.

[fathertime]

@OG - Finally someone stating the fundamental truth. Guys pick girls under 30 and then spend all their time fretting about the risks.

V-Man,


This is quite a general statement here and it isn't even correct.  Who is it that is fretting about the risks? Granted there are always risks, but I think most men that choose a woman 15-20 years younger are not the worrier types to begin with, if  I/they were, I/they probably wouldn't pick a spouse that is so much younger. 
It sounds to me that you would like a woman a little older, which is fine. I believe there are a different set of risks involved with spouses in their mid 30's and up and those are risks I wasn't interested in.  For examp: 1.  Biological time clocks are real at that age. 2.  I'd be concerned that I might lose interest.  That is just me though, and I'm clear on where I would like to take my risks!


Fathertime!