Can You Afford To Retire In Colombia?

[JimD]

 Here we go again, it's that time of year when the unions and labor representatives duke it out with the business sector over the salario minimo increase(what four million Colombians earn).  This year labor wants an 8% increase and business is offering 4.75%  so it will end up at six plus percent. Last year (a year when there was no Social Security increase in the US) it was first scheduled to go up 3.4 percent but later raised to 4% because of the severe flooding that had affected the country. When the salario minimo goes up so does most everything else by the same or similar percent. This includes increases of interest to an expat like rent, health insurance and employment of a maid or gardener. So this year Social Security will provide a three point something percent increase compared with Colombia's six point something. This has been a steady pattern over recent years. Add to that the stagnant dollar which hasn't been able to get to two thousand pesos in ages except for a brief spike now and then, and the long term out look for retirement in Colombia isn't very promising.

[Alabamaboy!]

During the last couple trips I made to Colombia, it seemed like the prices on most things were rising very fast and the quality of life deteriorating a bit. Add to that the higher prices of flying compared to a couple years ago, it makes it not so appealing to me anymore. Most of the condos and homes in my price range seemed to be pretty low quality compared to what you can get here in the States. And alot of things that cost very little here such as: riding bikes at the beach, playing with the kids at a big lush, grassy park, renting a few redbox dvd's, going to a good gym, finding great international restaurants, etc. is not so easy or inexpensive in Colombia.

To get the "whole package" in Colombia you would have to travel quite a bit to different parts of the country. And if you have a big family, it makes it kind of tough.

My new retirement plans are AZ + Southern California, with maybe a month trip to Colombia. Or even Mexico or Nicaragua. The cities of Merida in Mex, and Granada in Nicaragua look pretty nice to me and the prices seemed much, much more reasonable than most parts of Colombia.

The only wild card for me is if the healthcare insurance prices jump much higher because I have a long way to go before Medicare kicks in and to pay privately is killing me.

For example I am paying cash for my wife's pregnancy and delivery. The cost of the hospital is approx. $4,600. The prenatal labwork was $1,166. The OB doc $2,600. And all that is for a normal, uncomplicated pregnancy. If you add in an epidural here, a few aspirin, I am sure the final tally is going to be over $10K. And that is absolutely insane. I doubt any country in the world has such ridiculously priced medical services.

And after that I will have another child to add to the health insurance roll.

[Zon]

The cities of Merida in Mex, and Granada in Nicaragua look pretty nice to me and the prices seemed much, much more reasonable than most parts of Colombia

REALLY? I am surprised. I have heard that Merida has a good gene pool - tell me more

I understand things are not as good as they used to be, BUT COME ON ... outside Bogota life is very affordable. I got a price for a 2 story Penthouse in Periera earlier this week - 4 bedrooms, wraparound balcony, jacuzzi - about 1100 dollars a month.  Same kind of place in Miami or Tampa?  4,000.   In my view, luxury is about 30% less in Colombia.  If you wanted to just get by? It could be done on 1500 bucks a month

[Alabamaboy!]

Well for my lifestyle it would be pretty expensive in Colombia. If you like going to the beach and riding on the boardwalk, where would you do it in Colombia? If you like taking long walks in nice fresh, cool air, sure you could do that outside of Medellin or other places, but then to hit the beach you need to fly. If you want the beach you need to go to the Coast where the weather is horrible and does not really promote much active exercise. If you want the nice skyscraper life, you can go to Medellin, but there are not many wide open grassy parks like we have here in Southern California and AZ. If you want to eat 15 different cuisines in 15 nights, you would be hard pressed to do so in in Colombia, but here most major cities in the States not so difficult. To be able to take your dog for a walk on a nice cool SoCal evening and grab a couple burritos and redbox movies for less than $10....that is pretty convenient for me and the family.

Real estate in Bogota is really expensive. So is Cartagena. And even Barranquilla if you are going to have AC on 24/7 to prevent you from sweating to death. And most of the cities I have been to in Colombia have a lot of pollution.

If I were to do it, maybe Bucaramanga would fit the bill. Or live in a much smaller city outside of Medellin, save a lot of money on real estate, then take off on the weekends to other parts of Colombia to enjoy whatever you are lacking in the pueblo lifestyle.

[mudd]

i would think Ecuador or Chile would be a better place to retire, even parts of mexico would be better and cheaper than Colombia. if wacko chavez would ever get out of Venezuela, that would be a desirable place also.

[aconcepts]

Bamaboy I think you are trying to talk yourself out of Colombia. And you probally should.
 
Do you speak Spanish?
 
Is your wife Colombian?
 
Do you like Colombian food, futball, dance, liquor, etc?
 
If not stay home.
 
Costa Rica is not cheap but number one is the women here. Number 2 is the beauty of the land. Number 3 is the people. Hey, I can go out with both sides of 25 anytime I want. What guy almost twice that number can do that in the states? If you have a US wife, why would you want to live in Colombia? To make her envious?



The beauty of CR is awesome. Blows AZ away! Volcanoes, two coasts less than 30 minutes way by plane at less than $100 RT for residents.



The people here like to have fun and most outside of San Jose are so kind and hospitable, and real!



Not like the pretentious people I see in Southern California where you will never make friends with anyone younger than you. If you can make friends at all because everybody is working.

                                                                         

My advice is if you are an American use to living like an American with all the lame social mores than stay there.



CR. Col, are not for everyone. You have to speak Spanish number one, you have to junk the bias for US culture number 2, and then you have be able to appreciate the way things are done outside the box.



If you are looking for a place to live to try to replicate you lifestyle for less money, and that is your only or primary motivation, don't do it.

You have to love the culture and the country first.



Stay in the US if you don't. Little American football, no gringos to hang around and bitch with about US politics, and few kitty whipped guys to commiserate with about the overbearing old lady and the honey do list! ha!



I love what one poster wrote,



:You gringos come to Colombia and marry women a Colombian gardener would not marry!"



yeah, and why? Because the US cultural mores are so screwed up. Men are lost, pobrecitos.

If you love Colombia retire there for Colombia. Don't go retire some place you do not like because it is cheaper.



I see gringos do that in CR, They come here live in gated communities, don't learn Spanish, eventually feel isolated and frustrated because they cannot navigate the differences (without Spanish, imagine that!), they are miserable and sit around with other non Spanish speakers and bitch about how different things are here and why the Ticos don’t do things like gringos... Duh, maybe it’s because they are Ticos? Maybe? I mean really.

Love the culture or stay home.

That is golden advise, and all considering retiring outside the US should take that advice!
 

[Calipro]

Here we go again, it's that time of year when the unions and labor representatives duke it out with the business sector over the salario minimo increase(what four million Colombians earn).  This year labor wants an 8% increase and business is offering 4.75%  so it will end up at six plus percent. Last year (a year when there was no Social Security increase in the US) it was first scheduled to go up 3.4 percent but later raised to 4% because of the severe flooding that had affected the country. When the salario minimo goes up so does most everything else by the same or similar percent. This includes increases of interest to an expat like rent, health insurance and employment of a maid or gardener. So this year Social Security will provide a three point something percent increase compared with Colombia's six point something. This has been a steady pattern over recent years. Add to that the stagnant dollar which hasn't been able to get to two thousand pesos in ages except for a brief spike now and then, and the long term out look for retirement in Colombia isn't very promising.

I'm a slumlord in the states....I bought some apartments that I rent for $500 a month and I can honestly tell you that I would prefer to live in what I could get in Cali for $500 compared to here in the states. After I retire...my Blue Cross and Blue Shield insurance will cost me $187 a month....if I had the balls to drop it and just go with Colombian health insurance I think I might be able to save $100 a month.

Relatively speaking I think food is more expensive in Colombia.....Carrefour seems to be the most expensive so I shop at Exito most of the time.....but when I eat out at some of those places that sell the executive lunch specials...I'm surprised at how cheap it is for what you get....take that place in Chipichape where all the mall employees line up to eat....I think it's called Casa Lily or something like that....for 9000 cop you get a decent portion of chicken, beef, pork or fish plus rice beans, salad, juice and a bowl of sanchoco or soup.

I'm thinking to myself I couldn't have made this lunch any cheaper no matter where I bought the food so there has to be some place that sells food really cheap that I just don't know about.

Do you know of any places where you can buy food in bulk and save?

[Alabamaboy!]

I speak Spanish. My wife is Colombiana. Colombian food is unimpressive for the most part, but I do like the quality of their fruits, steaks/chicken are plentiful and cheap. I like the music, dancing, rum (but it is kind of expensive). I don't like soccer. I would rather watch the grass grow. So all in all, it seems like it would be pretty good for me in some regards, and not in others. If I had a US wife I would not be posting here.
 
 I don't know what part of Southern California you hang out with, but I spend my time in San Diego. And I don't think there is a much more laid back, unpretentious place than that...unless you are hanging out in Fashion Valley Mall or La Jolla. I find Medellin and Bogota and the Estrato 5 and 6 places in Colombia to be a lot less laid back than SoCal.
 
 AZ? I don't really like it here. But that is where I make my cash. And my kids are here. So not a big deal. The weather this time of year is equal to San Diego or better (on most days). I have never been to CR but I have researched it a lot and do not see too many great reports about it. It seems like people describe it as being an extension of South Florida. And I have lived there and it was not my cup of tea. The one area that looked a little interesting to me was the Caribbean Coast which seems to be underdeveloped but has some potential and some flavor. You think the US has a bad culture? I have been to Colombia about 22 times so far and have spent a lot of time there. And have seen some of the most immoral things imaginable taking place. And have seen a big proportion of the people I met there with little or no morals, lots of dishonest people. Not saying the US is much better. But come on. it seems like you are trying to make Colombia out to be some kind of paradise. It is a paradise if you are a single guy with some good cash in your pocket and you like to date various women. And if you have no children or life in the US whatsoever.   

Bamaboy I think you are trying to talk yourself out of Colombia. And you probally should.
 
Do you speak Spanish?
 
Is your wife Colombian?
 
Do you like Colombian food, futball, dance, liquor, etc?
 
If not stay home.
 
Costa Rica is not cheap but number one is the women here. Number 2 is the beauty of the land. Number 3 is the people. Hey, I can go out with both sides of 25 anytime I want. What guy almost twice that number can do that in the states? If you have a US wife, why would you want to live in Colombia? To make her envious?



The beauty of CR is awesome. Blows AZ away! Volcanoes, two coasts less than 30 minutes way by plane at less than $100 RT for residents.



The people here like to have fun and most outside of San Jose are so kind and hospitable, and real!



Not like the pretentious people I see in Southern California where you will never make friends with anyone younger than you. If you can make friends at all because everybody is working.

                                                                         

My advice is if you are an American use to living like an American with all the lame social mores than stay there.



CR. Col, are not for everyone. You have to speak Spanish number one, you have to junk the bias for US culture number 2, and then you have be able to appreciate the way things are done outside the box.



If you are looking for a place to live to try to replicate you lifestyle for less money, and that is your only or primary motivation, don't do it.

You have to love the culture and the country first.



Stay in the US if you don't. Little American football, no gringos to hang around and bitch with about US politics, and few kitty whipped guys to commiserate with about the overbearing old lady and the honey do list! ha!



I love what one poster wrote,



:You gringos come to Colombia and marry women a Colombian gardener would not marry!"



yeah, and why? Because the US cultural mores are so screwed up. Men are lost, pobrecitos.

If you love Colombia retire there for Colombia. Don't go retire some place you do not like because it is cheaper.



I see gringos do that in CR, They come here live in gated communities, don't learn Spanish, eventually feel isolated and frustrated because they cannot navigate the differences (without Spanish, imagine that!), they are miserable and sit around with other non Spanish speakers and bitch about how different things are here and why the Ticos don’t do things like gringos... Duh, maybe it’s because they are Ticos? Maybe? I mean really.

Love the culture or stay home.

That is golden advise, and all considering retiring outside the US should take that advice!

[Zon]

Costa Rica is not cheap but number one is the women here. Number 2 is the beauty of the land. Number 3 is the people. Hey, I can go out with both sides of 25 anytime I want. What guy almost twice that number can do that in the states?

I, for one appreciarte your honest, level headed, comments.

Chile would be a better place to retire, even parts of mexico would be better and cheaper than Colombia

Chile ... cheaper?   HMMMM.  Chile has white girls, so it is worth a look.

[Calipro]

I speak Spanish. My wife is Colombiana. Colombian food is unimpressive for the most part, but I do like the quality of their fruits, steaks/chicken are plentiful and cheap. I like the music, dancing, rum (but it is kind of expensive). I don't like soccer. I would rather watch the grass grow. So all in all, it seems like it would be pretty good for me in some regards, and not in others. If I had a US wife I would not be posting here.
 
 I don't know what part of Southern California you hang out with, but I spend my time in San Diego. And I don't think there is a much more laid back, unpretentious place than that...unless you are hanging out in Fashion Valley Mall or La Jolla. I find Medellin and Bogota and the Estrato 5 and 6 places in Colombia to be a lot less laid back than SoCal.
 
 AZ? I don't really like it here. But that is where I make my cash. And my kids are here. So not a big deal. The weather this time of year is equal to San Diego or better (on most days). I have never been to CR but I have researched it a lot and do not see too many great reports about it. It seems like people describe it as being an extension of South Florida. And I have lived there and it was not my cup of tea. The one area that looked a little interesting to me was the Caribbean Coast which seems to be underdeveloped but has some potential and some flavor. You think the US has a bad culture? I have been to Colombia about 22 times so far and have spent a lot of time there. And have seen some of the most immoral things imaginable taking place. And have seen a big proportion of the people I met there with little or no morals, lots of dishonest people. Not saying the US is much better. But come on. it seems like you are trying to make Colombia out to be some kind of paradise. It is a paradise if you are a single guy with some good cash in your pocket and you like to date various women. And if you have no children or life in the US whatsoever.   

Colombia is pretty much paradise for me but I'm single and my children in the US are grown.


I'm going to live in Cali full time once I get my mother and grandmother squared away here in the states. I'm mostly just counting the days until I go back on the 26th of January....but I have to say that my situation with women in AZ has been looking up quite a bit lately....I don't know if it is the bad economy here or women are just wanting to hook up in the hope of getting a Christmas gift or what....but if you can stomach cougars..... Scottsdale is a gold mine.


When you talk about dishonesty in Colombia that is one thing that probably took me the longest to get a grip on here.  The average colombiano's propensity to lie still amazes me sometimes...and I'm convinced that they themselves really believe their own lies at times. 


The only way I have found to deal with it really is to lie like hell while I'm here.
The upside to the lying culture here is that colombianos will buy almost any line of bull[snip] you give them....and even if they have doubts will not normally openly question you about them....which helps to explain why they get so upset when you put them on the spot for their bull[snip].


Only in Colombia can you have three girlfriends that don't know about each other....I could never pull something like that off in the states.

[benjio]

I think the primary issue with most of the gringos that consider retiring in Colombia is where they want to live. When you're looking at any major city along the coast, Bogota, Cali or Medellin, HELL YEAH you're going to realize your dollar isn't going far enough to justify retiring abroad. But don't forget Colombia is a huge country with so many different regions. So the big cities are too expensive and you don't want to live in a pueblo of 1500 people and be the richest guy there. There are dozens of places in between that offer what we all have come to love about Colombia without the high price tag.
 
The argument around food is kinda funny to me. Sure, Colombian Food is generally [snip]e, but what's wrong with cooking...or even better yet, teaching your wife to cook what you like. Throw her in a couple of culinary classes in the states before you make the move. Most likely if you married her, she's the kinda gal that likes to put a smile on your face with a delicious meal anyway. I'm Texan. I love barbecue. Colombians cook meat like it's infected or something...on the edge of becoming a charcoal briquette after they get finished. So what did I do during my longest stint there. Bought myself a grill, everything you need to marinate, bought some carbon they sell there that's actually better than charcoal here, and qued myself up some chicken. Don't accept Colombia as it is. You can easily build your own little world there without isolating yourself from the people and the culture with a little sacrifice and adaptation.
 
Bama and Zon have the right idea. Forget those big cities and explore the other places Colombia has to offer. I've met American guys living in Colombia in places so far off the beaten gringo path the U.S. Marshalls couldn't find them...and these are usually the happiest SOB's on the planet. There they are, laying in a hammock on the balcony of a four bedroom villa they bought from a desperate Colombian when the exchange rate choked, smoking a Cuban Cigar, sipping Ron Medellin straight, gorgeous 25 year old Colombiana in the kitchen cooking homemade arepas. That's the life!!
 
I'm not going to make a plan for my retirement lifestyle based on what I think my financial limits will be when the time comes. Life is too short for that [snip]. I have my dream retirement plans in mind already, and I'm making the necessary adjustments now to make sure that dream is fulfilled, no matter what the cost may be.
 

[Alabamaboy!]

CaliPro, you make a lot of sense. If you are going to be living in Colombia for a long period of time you really should try to adapt to they way they operate there or you will probably be eaten alive. Or at the minimum will stick out like a sore thumb. But if you go with the flow, then there are definitely lots of benefits to be reaped. You just have to approach things more like they do and less how a US raised guy would. Look at the bright side. If you get busted with another woman or with any kind of immoral issue there, nobody will even care. It is almost to be expected. And they will definitely not be asking too many questions about it.

If I did not have kids, then I too would be looking at Colombia as more of a paradise.

Are there any guys on this forum who do not have kids in the States and who do not want to have kids with their Colombiana, who actually want to get married and live in Colombia? If so, why? It seems to me if you can live in Colombia even 6 months of the year and have no children and don't want any, then it is crazy to get married. I see very few advantages to it and see a lot of downside to it.

[Gato4Astrid]

To be honest, I would rather retire in South Africa

[fathertime]

Stay in the US if you don't. Little American football, no gringos to hang around and bitch with about US politics, and few kitty whipped guys to commiserate with about the overbearing old lady and the honey do list! ha!



I love what one poster wrote,



:You gringos come to Colombia and marry women a Colombian gardener would not marry!"


 

I was enjoying some of your thoughts but you seem to be getting awful critical and unfairly representing  how people choose to live in the states,  and the ladies they choose to marry. 


Fathertime! 

[JimD]

After I retire...my Blue Cross and Blue Shield insurance will cost me $187 a month....if I had the balls to drop it and just go with Colombian health insurance I think I might be able to save $100 a month.

Relatively speaking I think food is more expensive in Colombia.....Carrefour seems to be the most expensive so I shop at Exito most of the time.....but when I eat out at some of those places that sell the executive lunch specials...I'm surprised at how cheap it is for what you get....take that place in Chipichape where all the mall employees line up to eat....I think it's called Casa Lily or something like that....for 9000 cop you get a decent portion of chicken, beef, pork or fish plus rice beans, salad, juice and a bowl of sanchoco or soup.

I'm thinking to myself I couldn't have made this lunch any cheaper no matter where I bought the food so there has to be some place that sells food really cheap that I just don't know about.

Do you know of any places where you can buy food in bulk and save?

As to health insurence if you just get a higher priced EPS, perfectly adequate if ou have no health issues, you'll pay $50 US a month. Drawback is very long lines, first round refusals (you often have to file a tutela to get the procedure approved on the second request) and long waits for an appointment. The higher priced EPS though reduce those issues. A private plan like the Coomeva plan Oro mentioned earlier skips those issues completely and you go to the head of the line. Approval for almost any procdure is granted in five dias habilas. Price however is only maybe $30 less than your quote for the US...but it's here not there.
 
As to food: there is a restaurante on the second floor of the new section of Chipichape called San Blas. It used to be the panaderia Ricas y Locuras that was over in the northeast corner of the mall that is now occupied by I think Banco Avivillas. Back then it offered the cheapest lunches in Chipichape and now in thier new location they are carrying on the tradition. Until last week the lunch with everything was $6.500. Anticipating the new year they've just raised it five hundred pesos to $7.000. I never order sancocho as it all just makes me too full. Ordering the bandeja (w/o sancocho) is $6.500 now. There is a place right befre you get to San Blas called Arepas y Todo  that offers una arepa con todo (very filling) for $4.600...if you're not watching cholestorol.
The very very cheapest food sold in Cali is found at the Galaria Santa Elena. I have been there numerous times with a companera who was feeding many mouths cheaply but it is also a very very bad place that a lot of Colombians wont go to and not for gringos.
 
For bulk food there is Makro. It's about half a kilometer north on the Sur Oriental from Jardin Plaza. There are some very good bulk deals on things like rice and cooking oil (wine too) but their prices on TVs and such are no better than Exito.   
 
 
 
 

[JimD]

....but if you can stomach cougars.....

Go wash your mouth out with soap!

[JimD]

The beauty of CR is awesome. Blows AZ away!                                          

I wouldn't agree with that. I think the beauty of the Sonoran Desert in South Western Arizona is just as stunning as any Costa Rican landscape. It even has it's own volcanos...or almost, the Mar Volcanos in the Pinacate Reserve just a ways into Mexico. Granted I only spent a couple of weeks there on sort of an eco tour thing so didn't get to know all the nooks and crannies. Maybe there are some interesting ones.

[Researcher]

   If I could afford to retire somewhere Colombia would be low on the list for me. I have a woman in my life and even if I was single I believe I could do better sans the "quid pro quo" method of keeping a woman. There are better place to retire than Colombia.

[Calipro]

   If I could afford to retire somewhere Colombia would be low on the list for me. I have a woman in my life and even if I was single I believe I could do better sans the "quid pro quo" method of keeping a woman. There are better place to retire than Colombia.

I think living in Colombia as a married man might become torturous at some point....I wouldn't recommend it.....however as a single guy I think you could probably do better than a "quid pro quo" relationship....if you think you might have a problem with it ......just stay out of Medellin and half the battle will be solved.  The "amigos con derechos" thing is alive and well in Cali for those that like to have their cake and eat it to. 

[Researcher]

    I would probably take the Philippines over Colombia for retirement. No matter where I would go though I think I could have my cake without having to pay for it.

        Researcher

[Calipro]

    I would probably take the Philippines over Colombia for retirement. No matter where I would go though I think I could have my cake without having to pay for it.

        Researcher

    So they have amigas con derechas in the Philippines also....I don;t think I could ever go to the Phillippines.....I have a phobia for space aliens.

[Researcher]

 Space aliens?....errr umm...ok.... I don't think pay for play is as much a way of life in the Phils but then I think the situation in Colombia is also exaggerated by many on this forum so there ya go.

       Researcher

[Deseo]

This has been an EXCELLENT thread reading all the different perspectives.
 

  The "amigos con derechos" thing is alive and well in Cali for those that like to have their cake and eat it to.

Quotes like this (as well as Bama's comments earlier in the thread) have me thinking I should really find a way to LIVE in Colombia for a least a little while (6 months, 1 yr, 2 yrs??).
 
I am single, no kids, never married. The only major obstacle for me is finding steady work in COLOMBIA. And that is NOT easy.  Seems like Colombia is still not on the radar of many international firms, not like Brazil, Chile, or even Mexico seem to be. 
 
I did a one week marriage agency trip to Colombia in early 2011. Met a Colombiana but broke off the romantic relationship with her one month after the trip, as she was not the one.
 
And I see nothing wrong with trying that again BUT to LIVE in Colombia there would seem to be so many opportunties.  I'd be in way less of a rush that is for sure.
 
 
 

[Researcher]

    I agree Deseo. If you can swing it that would definitely be to your advantage.

[John W]

Well I don't know if I should tell this story...but...I was in the Navy and we had a port call in the Philippines. I had just enlisted and it was the first foreign country that I had ever been to.

I'll never forget my first night on the town with my friends in the Philippines. We went out on the town one night and got totally [snip] faced drunk. Well at least I did.

And then they took me to a Filipina whore house. I guess I passed out and my friends just went to take care of business. Because when I started to come to, I was laying on a bed with a much of naked Filipinas standing around my bed just looking down on me.

My vision must have been blurred because they all seemed like featureless child like figures. Then it dawned on my that they were probably space aliens and I was about to be abducted. My heart started racing a mile a minute. I jumped out of bed knocking a few of creatures to the floor and ran out screaming.

I finally realized what happened after I was outside for a while but I still have a phobia of filipinas. I get a shiver down my spine every time I see one.

Was looking at some of Calipro's old posts and came across this.  Explains his post above.