Prepago al Maximo

[dennislevy]

Maritime04 er al. ,
 
Your point about gringos and the zero to limited impact they make is spot on.

The only thing of the Western lifestyle that you described (that I do)  is some of the diet and eating out and I liked going to the movies either by myself or taking a woman. . I ve bought ONE jar of peanut butter in three years here and I never bought a box of American cereal.    I like good pasta dishes, and I ll eat beef from time to time and I drink orange juice from time to time, BUT I prefer papaya and mora juices.
 
I eat out constantly, but ALMOST NEVER in zona rosas unless I am dating.
 
Wherever I lived and traveled, I try to find casual restaurants in the neighborhood I am, and always a good bakery...and I ALMOST NEVER see other foreigners in those places.  I m perfectly happy to sit in a chicken resautant in the middle of the locals and eat a cuarto pollo, papas y enselada..... I ve had lots of meals in mall food courts all over Colombia either by myself or with dates and they are packed with............ Colombians!
 
I ve been in about 60 to 70 homes all over Colombia  because I ve dated women in all social classes, that includes the women, their families and their friends.  I vr been a guest in both elegant strato 6 high rise apartments and houses in Bogota, Medllin and Cali......and houses on dirt streets with corrugatged tin roofs, concrete slabs, no doors on rooms and exposed electrical wiring in places like Riohacha and Macaio in la Guajira and Soledad near Baranqilla....
 
And i ve seen just about everything in between  ....
 
I ve never been in homes of abject, desperate squalor, thats true.....Even if they were estrato 2, the women I v known had pride in themselves and how they lived.
 
I know A LOT more about Colombia then any 1 week wonder, any occasional tourist and the Parque Lleras crowd.
 
I ve talked to many Colombian women in and out of bed about their lives their families, their sense of loss, their hidden resentments, etc.   I ve had heart to hearts with two suegras  when I was dating their daughters, just the moms and me.

In many posts on P L I try to give a woman s point of view.. Everything I ve contrrbuted to the board about how Colombian women think and feel is based on talking with them...and understanding the hidden subtext.

I always start off with the POV...what has happened to her before she and I met?   Most gringos don t understand how important it is  to get SOME version of the back story...and go from there. 
 
Admittedly, my experience with the Colombian aristocracy is very limited, I had two intimate relationships with estrato 6 women, both in Bogota but they were not at the very pinacle of the social heirarchy.
 
But I m still a gringo...I understand that.

And yes, part of the reason I came to South  America was for the women...I ve never denied THAT!     

[Zon]

Do I feel more appreciated, No not really I mean for what? What exactly am I giving? I do from time to time feel good when I give to the poor, for buy a present for little ones in my family. My girl appreciates me, but I also appreciate her, so it cancels out.
Respected? Seriously Why because I make more money than most? by that logic I should show respect to say someone like “Snooki Polizzi” (cast member jersey shore) simply because they earn more? I have a personal belief system set-up that determines what and who I respect and trust me it’s not ANY of the cast of “Jersy shore”. Do people kiss ass in Colombia sure, but only a fool would confuse that for respect.
Do I have a greater social value in Colombia than the USA? That depends on you the level of impact you provide to your community as a private person I make little to ZERO impact, I donate to the poor, assist family when I can, respect the law and try not to litter. Do Gringos get more attention living over there, sure but WHY? Sometimes for general curiosity from the locals, other times to obtain different perspectives, or practice English skills.  Does this give me a greater sense of value; NO it does not.
The last one gave me a chuckle; you act like walking around Oviedo gringos are visually raped by numerous women as they pass by. Does not happen there, or in Bello or in El hueco. Yes women are available, and many are open and friendly but I think as others have reported getting a phone number and smile is easy, actually get them to date number 3 or to even pick up the phone is not usually so easy. Colombian women would rather lie and make up an excuse or not show up at all then tell you they are not interested. That is a FACT.

There are different levels of evaluation and discussion on these and other largely personal and philosophical concepts.  Again, a discussion board is not the greatest place for a good, deep, exchange of views ... but, it is a start.

There is many ways a person COULD define "social value" (perhaps I should have said "social valuation" - valuations do not require the consent of that being valued, BTW).   The primary theme of this site is courtship and marriage, so I guess the best and slim (and superficial) definition here is the ability to be attractive to the opposite sex.  These are largely social creations, of course, and it should be clear that these vary from place to place and from time to time.   For example, a 45 year old single women seeking much younger men and calling themselves "cougars" is a somewhat new, uniquely American, creation.  So, if one is a sexually active 45 year old woman, it is good to live in the USA right now.   50 years ago? not so much.  50 years from now? who knows.

So, when I asked Mari04 about how his experiences with his social value, USA versus Colombia - that is what I meant. 

Look, I know there is no land of milk and honey.  I know Colombia has warts.   I know that MUCH of the interest and attraction a gringo enjoys in Colombia is false, or comes from interasadas.   But, it is still 100 times better for most single men to seek a woman in Colombia than the USA - all things being equal.   And to be precise the reason is that the man is more likely to find a woman with characteristics that most view as positive, be they youthful, beautiful, trustworthy, caring ... whatever.  Why?  Because most American men have a higher "valuation" with women in Colombia compared to the USA.

BUT, it is not easy, or automatic!  Sure, some people get "lucky".  There are members here who were successful on line and in agencies.   Is that impossible? No.  Is it likely?  It depends who you speak with.   I think the information pages of Jamies site are very balanced and true.   

Social value in the context I was using it also has to do with gender and age.   I did noticed - it is hard not to - that younger Colombian men 25 - 30 where more or less viewed more as adolescents.   Men in their 40's and 50's are not expected to give way to  the younger generation - quite to the contrary.  Again, here is a difference between the USA and Colomba, generally speaking.

Put all this together ... is it hype to suggest a man can get a new lease on life in one trip?  Sure, a little.   But, if one is open to exploring all opportunities a greater field of desireable choices emerge.

Does not happen there, or in Bello or in El hueco. Yes women are available, and many are open and friendly but I think as others have reported getting a phone number and smile is easy, actually get them to date number 3 or to even pick up the phone is not usually so easy.

I found Medellin to be an aberration in many ways, BTW.  The women are very very attractive, of course.   But, there is also a lack of sincerity and an incompleteness in Paisas in Medellin - in my opinion.  Is it possible to find a good one? yes - but rare and difficult.





 

[dennislevy]

Zon

I ve been at this three years. I ve been from one end of Colombia to another and I can tell you respectfully but directly......... if you re still frustrated by interesadas and insincere women. you are still in the dark.
 
VERY FEW women are going to be drect and open.  Colombianas don t say what they actually think,  When you ve got a better grasp on the culture, you ll understand the reasons why they don t.  And if they can t communciate with YOU because your Spanish isnt there...or you dont follow the subtext....there is even LESS reason to be honest with YOU.
 
If you re to going try and pick up girls in public places, you re going to get phoney phone numbers....thats all there is to it.
 
To a young woman who you hit on.... what you ARE is a complete STRANGER, a gringo who speaks poor Spanish and she knows you want to get in her pants.  Young women in Colombia are subjected to sexual pressure from their early teens on..... from schoolmates, sometimes men within her family, from men in her barrio....ther bosses, teachers etc., etc., etc.
 
You really think you have a rap that s going to make all of that go away?  
 
To want to get in the pants of a Colombian woman that a man finds sexually desirable...that s normal.  But when a gringo dates out of his league, there are going to be more obstacles then usual.
 
A lot of men THINK they resolve these obstacles with money, gifts trips..etc   Money buys the time of woman  it buys proximity, it buys sex with some women,
 
What it NEVER buys is sincerity or completeness or openess.
 
 
 
 
 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

[maritime04]

Denis
I agree with you, that’s why i left the issue alone. There is no doubt you have a great deal of experience in dating Latin women. I never questioned your experience, or your motivations and i will admit that you are not the typical ex-pats, or wife-hunter, or tourist. Ok

Zon
Things very from place to place and time to time…………………………………….. Yes Zon I know

Conversation, different points of view either philosophical or theoretical are a great way to pass the time, and yes this conversation can be limited in this way, but none the less important. You seem to be trying to make the same argument over and over again. So here let me enlighten you

Here you say

Because most American men have a higher "valuation" with women in Colombia compared to the USA.

No Zon, I think it’s quite the contrary; Most American men cannot speak Spanish, and therefore have trouble communicating with Latin women, Most American men will have a hard time despite the communication issues of understanding a Latin women, most American men do not live in Colombia, Most American men do not share the same ideas, culture or faith that Colombians do; All of this is a LIABILITY in my view, which should bring me to my main point which you brought up.

Social valuation

Absolute value with asset and liability? Sure zon we can go there that’s actually a good way to look at it. An attractive investment can often yield high returns, it is common perception that if you are ready to take high risks, then you will have more probabilities of receiving high rewards. The value of anything always takes in what you have with what you owe, so if you really wanted to discuss a person’s social valuation you would need to take a closer look at his assets and liabilities.

In your statement above, you seem to think American males have a value to Colombian women, this is easily understood if your perspective is limited, IE you do not speak the language, know and understand the culture, or have much experience with long term relationships in country like Colombia. I could assume something, but I will just come off an ask it; what are the assets that you deem so valuable that we Americans have in Colombia?

But, it is still 100 times better for most single men to seek a woman in Colombia than the USA - all things being equal.   And to be precise the reason is that the man is more likely to find a woman with characteristics that most view as positive, be they youthful, beautiful, trustworthy, caring ... whatever.  Why?  Because most American men have a higher "valuation" with women in Colombia compared to the USA.

Zon
I think you are confusing probability with expectation, often a mistake with disastrous outcomes. One hundred times better………..Really, quite a bold expectation Zon.
Croesus, king of Lydia, was once considered the richest man of his time. To this day Romance Languages use the expression “rich as Croesus” to describe a person of excessive wealth. He was said to be visited by Solon, a Greek legislator known for his dignity, reserve, upright morals, humility, wisdom and intelligence. Solon did not display the smallest surprise at the wealth and splendor surrounding his host, nor the tiniest admiration for their owner. King Croesus was so irked by the lack of impression on the part of this Greek he attempted to extract some form of acknowledgment. So the king asked solon if he had known a happier man then him? Solon citied the life of a man who led a noble existence and died while in battle. Prodded for more he gave similar examples of heroic but terminated lives, until Croesus, irate asked him point blank if he was not to be considered the happiest man of all. Solon answered:
“The observations of the numerous misfortunes that attend all conditions forbids us to grow insolent upon our present enjoyments or to admire a man’s happiness that may yet, in the course of time suffer change. For the uncertain future has yet to come, with all the variety of future; and him only to who, the divinity has guaranteed continued happiness until the end we may call happy.”
Zon Why is it 100 times better for a single male to seek women in Colombia? I agree its better NOT 100 times over, Also It’s not for everybody.
Of course zon Colombia has many good opportunities for an American guy or any guy with a western paycheck, this does not mean it will grantee happiness, or that the path will be clear of obstacles in whatever you are searching for. You assume because you see older Colombian males in their 40s and 50s with arms draped over much younger physically attractive women that they are in fact happy, living in mutual harmony. This is an assumption made through observation and little understanding of Colombian culture; you obviously have zero clues as to what’s going on behind the scenes, but you’re just star struck at the possibilities.
American men DO NOT HAVE any greater value or valuation in Colombia or any other place, this is a fantasy dream whipped up by guys selling condos to attention starved guys, who want be a rock star.
Older men are not coveted or held in special regard by younger Colombian women, Things NOT being equal, there can develop with time a relationship based of trust and love, but most likely it’s an intersada, remember the word existed long before gringos were frequent visitors. Colombian women do enjoy romance and they will always be attracted to men their own age, regardless of what you hear at the bars.
You tell me what is most probable?
That Colombia is a magical fantasy country where the basic social interaction between women and men is so distorted that every women is only interested in marrying a wealthy foreigner,  and enjoy being treated like a piece of meat, for sexual pleasure by much older men. The ultimate fantasy land where every man can have his wishes…………………………………………………………………………..
Or that Colombia is just like any other place dealing with extreme poverty and degradation of social standards, such age underage sex, prostitution, violence, drug abuse, drug trafficking, and work ethic. Which creates a money and buy anything atmosphere…………………………………….
Guys like you visit the Zona Rosa, meet a few promiscuous females have some laughs NEXT your laying down 200 grand for a condo and calling the place paradise!

[Zon]

Guys like you visit the Zona Rosa, meet a few promiscuous females have some laughs NEXT your laying down 200 grand for a condo and calling the place paradise!

I liked your response and the story of King Croesus very much.  Actually, I agree with most of what you say.  As to your personal advise to me as stated above ... I think you got me wrong.  But, that is an understandable consequence of this medium.

Here you say
Quote<blockquote>
Because most American men have a higher "valuation" with women in Colombia compared to the USA.
</blockquote>
No Zon, I think it’s quite the contrary; Most American men cannot speak Spanish, and therefore have trouble communicating with Latin women, Most American men will have a hard time despite the communication issues of understanding a Latin women, most American men do not live in Colombia, Most American men do not share the same ideas, culture or faith that Colombians do; All of this is a LIABILITY in my view, which should bring me to my main point which you brought up.

Language, time, and cultural understanding are challenges, but these can be overcome IF one meets a good, willing woman, that is able to meet half way.  Or, a man gets lucky:)  I would prefer to align myself with your side, since I often state that wife hunting is not easy, and things are not as they appear.  But, in the end, it is good to remind oneself that if American men were poorer than Colombian men, and if Colombian women were less attractive, and less accommodating than American women, we would not be having this conversation.  The social valuation question is already answered, in fact, because of the existence of this discussion and all the collateral infrastructure (agencies, dating sites, etc..)   The question then becomes: What is the correct balance to all this?

I ve been at this three years. I ve been from one end of Colombia to another and I can tell you respectfully but directly......... if you re still frustrated by interesadas and insincere women. you are still in the dark.

I appreciate your post and points, they are all well taken.   But, I have lived in Colombia without a hungry heart.   I have been just as flaky to women (not returning phone calls, and disappearing) as some women have been to me ... and I have cared very little each time.  PRECISELY because I was primarily observing and simply living my life - not trying to score.   (Personally, I dislike having sex with a stranger especially after only meeting in a club, or party.)

I have noticed all that you have said and more.  Colombian women, especially from lower stratas are what Tony Soprano would call "damaged goods," almost entirely.  Most other women in Colombia have a very hard time trusting for the reasons Mari04 has noted. 

So, as much as i like Colombia, it is not the ultimate sexual bonanza to me.  It is a nice combination of different and new experiences.  And, perhaps most important, it is convenient to my business and family life (I live in Florida). 

[Kiltboy1]

I remember dating this super hot Paisa I met at CSH in 2005. I went out with her and Papi(formally of the board here) to a disco. She had every guy there in tears with her dance moves in the trunk . I got only a kiss after spending maybe 100 bucks on her. I just said to myself she was a prepaigo type. I did not call her and 3 days later she called me, we had lunch, bought her daughter like 25 dollars of clothes and we went back to my room and you know . Pepago or just thanks for the kids clothes ?Could be both so just go date them no matter what is what  I say and see what happens. Hey, prepagos need luvin too
 
KB

[fathertime]

.   (Personally, I dislike having sex with a stranger especially after only meeting in a club, or party.)

 

Cut the crap!  Then why do you continue to visit night clubs?


 I am imagining you telling some beautiful woman, "NO, I don't enjoy sex with a beautiful woman, because we just met".   I don't think you really get that many opportunities to begin with.   I mean to say given your age, the way you have conducted yourself,  and complete lack of spanish, genuine  ladies are not just going to walk up to you and ask you for sex...You would be the one making all the moves and trying your damndest to get some interest from the ladies, but for some odd reason you want everybody here to believe that you are faking orgasms with these babes so you can observe the culture.   Horsecrap! 

I have noticed all that you have said and more.  Colombian women, especially from lower stratas are what Tony Soprano would call "damaged goods," almost entirely.  Most other women in Colombia have a very hard time trusting for the reasons Mari04 has noted. 
   

You have noticed nothing of the sort.  You have not had any real time with any lady because you have not been able to get past your own personal issues, so lets not put anything negative on the ladies until you can square up about yourself. 


Fathertime! 

[Calipro]

I remember dating this super hot Paisa I met at CSH in 2005. I went out with her and Papi(formally of the board here) to a disco. She had every guy there in tears with her dance moves in the trunk . I got only a kiss after spending maybe 100 bucks on her. I just said to myself she was a prepaigo type. I did not call her and 3 days later she called me, we had lunch, bought her daughter like 25 dollars of clothes and we went back to my room and you know . Pepago or just thanks for the kids clothes ?Could be both so just go date them no matter what is what  I say and see what happens. Hey, prepagos need luvin too
 
KB

Your advice flies in the face of the collective wisdom here.....supposedly if one of those hot prepagos would by chance actually bed one of the wife hunters....they would  lose all sense of reason...believe everything she says and ultimately give her all their money. jejeje


Or at the very least waste one or two days on her.... that could have been better spent looking for the ONE!!!

[fathertime]

Zon

I ve been at this three years. I ve been from one end of Colombia to another and I can tell you respectfully but directly......... if you re still frustrated by interesadas and insincere women. you are still in the dark.
 
VERY FEW women are going to be drect and open.  Colombianas don t say what they actually think, When you ve got a better grasp on the culture, you ll understand the reasons why they don t.  And if they can t communciate with YOU because your Spanish isnt there...or you dont follow the subtext....there is even LESS reason to be honest with YOU.
 
If you re to going try and pick up girls in public places, you re going to get phoney phone numbers....thats all there is to it.
 
To a young woman who you hit on.... what you ARE is a complete STRANGER, a gringo who speaks poor Spanish and she knows you want to get in her pants.  Young women in Colombia are subjected to sexual pressure from their early teens on..... from schoolmates, sometimes men within her family, from men in her barrio....ther bosses, teachers etc., etc., etc.
 
You really think you have a rap that s going to make all of that go away?  
 
To want to get in the pants of a Colombian woman that a man finds sexually desirable...that s normal.  But when a gringo dates out of his league, there are going to be more obstacles then usual.
 
A lot of men THINK they resolve these obstacles with money, gifts trips..etc   Money buys the time of woman  it buys proximity, it buys sex with some women,
 
What it NEVER buys is sincerity or completeness or openess.
 

For once i'm going to have to agree with the majority of what Levy said on this one, although once in a relationship/marriage i don't know about the ladies not saying what they want to say...that has not been my experience.


Fathertime! 

[z_k_g]

Older men are not coveted or held in special regard by younger Colombian women, Things NOT being equal, there can develop with time a relationship based of trust and love, but most likely it’s an intersada, remember the word existed long before gringos were frequent visitors. Colombian women do enjoy romance and they will always be attracted to men their own age, regardless of what you hear at the bars.
You tell me what is most probable?
That Colombia is a magical fantasy country where the basic social interaction between women and men is so distorted that every women is only interested in marrying a wealthy foreigner,  and enjoy being treated like a piece of meat, for sexual pleasure by much older men. The ultimate fantasy land where every man can have his wishes…………………………………………………………………………..
Or that Colombia is just like any other place dealing with extreme poverty and degradation of social standards, such age underage sex, prostitution, violence, drug abuse, drug trafficking, and work ethic. Which creates a money and buy anything atmosphere…………………………………….
Guys like you visit the Zona Rosa, meet a few promiscuous females have some laughs NEXT your laying down 200 grand for a condo and calling the place paradise!

Cali,
 
I agree with a lot of your latest rants, pretty good stuff.
 
In my experience most young hot women want a young hot stud to rut with all nite and be seen with during the day. 
 
That fairy tale of super hot babes longing for old retired 50+ old divorced Americans is also told in Asia.
 
It just ain't so but it really boosts the (sex) tourist industry and it brings the droves of men looking for that fantasy sexy latina wifey.
 
I really didn't get into much detail criticizing Zon's fantasy posts, I mean what can you say to a guy who considers time spent with a stripper a real "date" and a serious relationship? Not much.
 
You've done a good job of shedding some true light on his other whimsical and idealistic views about why a young hot colombiana would have interest in him.
 
You make it plain.
 
Zulu

[Zon]

Cut the crap!  Then why do you continue to visit night clubs?    I am imagining you telling some beautiful woman, "NO, I don't enjoy sex with a beautiful woman, because we just met".   I don't think you really get that many opportunities to begin with.   I mean to say given your age, the way you have conducted yourself,  and complete lack of Spanish, genuine  ladies are not just going to walk up to you and ask you for sex...You would be the one making all the moves and trying your damndest to get some interest from the ladies, but for some odd reason you want everybody here to believe that you are faking orgasms with these babes so you can observe the culture.   Horsecrap!

HAHAHA!  So, Come on dude!   Why is it that you presume to be inside my head. DAMN- BOY!    I take it you do not like music, dance, and any time you did this you had to hold your nose for the sake of getting some "poon."  Fine. I can accept that.  And, now, you single ME OUT - after spending considerable effort to illustrate the various activities which gave me exposure to many women - as having little experience and opportunity - HAHAHA   Make up your mind, man!  Accordingly to you I am a "porn king"; or "pimp"; or some introverted geek that can not carry a conversation; or all at the same time?  HAHAHA

ALL I SAID, is that the time I have spent in Colombia, I have NOT been a Hungry Heart.   I do not look at my clock.  I do not say to myself - oh poop, I only have 5 days left, so I better make hay.  My time in Colombia has been nothing like that at all. And, there has been MANY times where I was with a woman, and the fit was not right, and I got her a taxi.  And, there have been many times, where I was too busy enjoying myself to give a [snip] to complete a conversation, or whatever.  If that is impossible for you to understand, or accept, so be it.  BUT, now that you are insulting my Spanish!  You are going too far:)

genuine  ladies are not just going to walk up to you and ask you for sex...You would be the one making all the moves and trying your damndest to get some interest from the ladies,

   

I care, of course, and try to present myself correctly.  WHY NOT? But I think too many guys take the term "getting lucky"  way too literally.  It ain't that big of deal - IS IT?

And, this goes beyond being opinionated ...

You have not had any real time with any lady because you have not been able to get past your own personal issues, so lets not put anything negative on the ladies until you can square up about yourself. 

PSST - you do not know me.  If you spent only 1 hour in real life to draw some kind of real conclusion, I would take this more seriously ... you are boxing with windmills.

[Zon]

I really didn't get into much detail criticizing Zon's fantasy posts, I mean what can you say to a guy who considers time spent with a stripper a real "date" and a serious relationship? Not much.
 
You've done a good job of shedding some true light on his other whimsical and idealistic views about why a young hot colombiana would have interest in him.

It's cool if others have opposing views.  But, where are you guys getting off re-writting reality?!?!?!?  This very site exists because some of these "fantasy posts" are true.  Or, has all of a sudden, Colombia become the USA?

Of course you are correct, that IF you find an educated, beautiful, well travelled, EMPLOYED 28 year old in Bogota ... she is going to be more like an American women.  But, there are many examples where a 60 man finds a 32 - 35 year old Colomibana and they both seem happy.   In Colombia, if a unweatlhy, uneducated woman is not married by the time she is 26 - SHE'S GOT A PROBLEM.   

And .... I'm tired.  Believe what you want.

[Calipro]

Cali,
 
I agree with a lot of your latest rants, pretty good stuff.
 
In my experience most young hot women want a young hot stud to rut with all nite and be seen with during the day. 
 
That fairy tale of super hot babes longing for old retired 50+ old divorced Americans is also told in Asia.
 
It just ain't so but it really boosts the (sex) tourist industry and it brings the droves of men looking for that fantasy sexy latina wifey.
 
I really didn't get into much detail criticizing Zon's fantasy posts, I mean what can you say to a guy who considers time spent with a stripper a real "date" and a serious relationship? Not much.
 
You've done a good job of shedding some true light on his other whimsical and idealistic views about why a young hot colombiana would have interest in him.
 
You make it plain.
 
Zulu

So I see you haven't been to Cali yet.....I'm 50.... good athletic shape...all my hair and the best teeth money can buy.  jejeje

And don't ask me why but there is a type of young chica here that will blow right by my friends half my age and go straight for me and it has happened in broad daylight at the malls no less with all the world to see. LOL!!!

Had an american friend of mine that is 32 and I think a bit better looking that me.... chat some chick up in Chipichape and the whole time he is talking to her she is looking at me.

He told me later that he thinks it's a drawback to be young in Cali.....I told him that is bull[snip]...most chicks will go for a younger guy all things being equal....but there are 100 times more chicks in there early twenties here that will gladly take on a good looking 50 year old than there are in the states.....and I'm not even talking about the agency women nor am I holding out the carrot of marriage to attract them.

[maritime04]

You’re correct I got a little personal there, I do not know you, and I can only make an educated guess from the material I see here. You could me a UNICF member helping to feed the poor in your off time, WHO KNOWS

Language, time, and cultural understanding are challenges, but these can be overcome IF one meets a good, willing woman, that is able to meet half way.  Or, a man gets lucky:)  I would prefer to align myself with your side, since I often state that wife hunting is not easy, and things are not as they appear.  But, in the end, it is good to remind oneself that if American men were poorer than Colombian men, and if Colombian women were less attractive, and less accommodating than American women, we would not be having this conversation.  The social valuation question is already answered, in fact, because of the existence of this discussion and all the collateral infrastructure (agencies, dating sites, etc..)   The question then becomes: Whatis the correct balance to all this?

Weather this or that is true DEPENDS upon the observer
“So far as any single observer is concerned, his own best observed values are themselves the external world: he cannot properly go behind the conditions surrounding his observations and speak of a real external world beyond these observations. Any world which he may think of as so existing is purely a conceptual world, one which for some reason he infers to exist behind the deceptive observations. Provided to speculate about this concealed world, to bestow upon it any characteristics that he pleases, but it can have no real existence for him until he becomes able to observe it, therefore the only reality he knows is the one he can directly observe.”
Thank you Mr. Einstein, because what we are talking about is metaphysical. There is no absolute value.

I care, of course, and try to present myself correctly.  WHY NOT? But I think too many guys take the term "getting lucky"  way too literally.  It ain't that big of deal - IS IT?

Then why would you say this

But, it is still 100 times better for most single men to seek a woman in Colombia than the USA - all things being equal.

I guess it’s 100 times better because of the hand holding…………………………………..

This very site exists because some of these "fantasy posts" are true.  Or, has all of a sudden, Colombia become the USA?

I would beg to differ, ask around how easily one finds combatable women, it’s a difficult task made so by all the liabilities and life obstacles, NONE of that is fantasy. Ok sure one has access to younger more attractive women, but that does not make the task of building a relationship any easier.

Of course you are correct, that IF you find an educated, beautiful, well travelled, EMPLOYED 28 year old in Bogota ... she is going to be more like an American women.  But, there are many examples where a 60 man finds a 32 - 35 year old Colomibana and they both seem happy.   In Colombia, if a unweatlhy, uneducated woman is not married by the time she is 26 - SHE'S GOT A PROBLEM. 

No Zon this women is still a Columbiana regardless of her economic status, she was born and raised there and she will have a Latina mentality on par with her social status in the community.
Are you kidding, most of the 26 year old women I have met were not married and that’s how they wanted it, also the KEY word there is “SEEM HAPPY”. You’re trying to justify some magical candy land through uneducated observations made within short-term visits of 3-6 months.
I am not trying to re-write reality, all I am doing is calling you on the paradise propaganda and other such non-sense. In addition to give you little bit of a hard time because of your critical views and remarks directed at wife-hunters. Such as

the time I have spent in Colombia, I have NOT been a Hungry Heart.

I wonder who you directed that at,
Everybody comes to a place like Colombia for a reason; the wife-hunters come so they can meet a younger cuter wife with a traditional view of marriage, in an attempt to be happy. As naive as that sounds I respect it, and wish them well. Colombia faces huge obstacles with little opportunity and extreme poverty, and moral degradation like prostitution, sexual abuse in the work place, and a rigid social class structure. The United States has ample opportunity and a growing economy for everyone who is willing to work. With the current change in attitude towards traditional marriage, and picky American women; I find it completely acceptable for a guy to look elsewhere in finding a wife. WHY NOT all this doesn’t make the task any easier and does not grantee success, but the smart guys are willing to take the risk and make the effort.
I would much rather a hungry heart then an empty soul, begot of love, compassion or desire.
I do not care why or what you do in Colombia. That was never the point, this was always simply a discussion and opposing views, I made my arguments you made your statements. That’s about as far as it can go. 

[fathertime]

BUT, now that you are insulting my Spanish!  You are going too far:)
   

 

     Accordingly to you I am a "porn king"; or "pimp"; or some introverted geek that can not carry a conversation; or all at the same time?  HAHAHA

you might be all those things, but i'm just convinced you are a wife-hunter in disguise...i'm trying to help you admit it and finally take off your cloak of trying to act all cool!   




Fathertime!

[Researcher]

Your advice flies in the face of the collective wisdom here.....supposedly if one of those hot prepagos would by chance actually bed one of the wife hunters....they would  lose all sense of reason...believe everything she says and ultimately give her all their money. jejeje


Or at the very least waste one or two days on her.... that could have been better spent looking for the ONE!!!

   There are guys that go for the prepagos. They are actually looking to strike a "deal". There are guys who go for fat chicks and some even like old broads. There are many guys who go looking for a foreign wife totally naive to the realities of what is out there. Those are the ones this "collective wisdom" aimed at. Guys who are looking for pay for play usually know what they want and where to get it.

  Researcher

[Zon]

I wonder who you directed that at,
Everybody comes to a place like Colombia for a reason; the wife-hunters come so they can meet a younger cuter wife with a traditional view of marriage, in an attempt to be happy. As naive as that sounds I respect it, and wish them well. Colombia faces huge obstacles with little opportunity and extreme poverty, and moral degradation like prostitution, sexual abuse in the work place, and a rigid social class structure. The United States has ample opportunity and a growing economy for everyone who is willing to work. With the current change in attitude towards traditional marriage, and picky American women; I find it completely acceptable for a guy to look elsewhere in finding a wife. WHY NOT all this doesn’t make the task any easier and does not grantee success, but the smart guys are willing to take the risk and make the effort.
I would much rather a hungry heart then an empty soul, begot of love, compassion or desire.

That statement was directed to no one inparticular; moreover, it was not intended to be insultative.  (Mari04 - you are latin aren't you?  HAHAHA)   it is simply a fact of the environment.   Some men are VERY excited and motivated to find a wife.  Should that surprise you?   When a person is VERY excited and motivated, such a person may not apply the best judgement.  Again, this should surprise no one.   

If a guy is VERY excited and motivated to buy a brand new Ford Mustang convertible, for example, he should take a friend with him to the dealership - just for some balance.  Who end's up getting a better deal, and making a more thoughtful purchase ... the guy who is VERY excited, or the person how is more reserved and thoughtful?   I have seen guys in Colombia who look and behave like they are on an Easter Egg hunt.  Again, this is not directed at any one - it is a fact.   (It should be obvious that there are other men that take a more balanced and thoughtful approach too, however, this is the minority)

And your comments over the difficulty and uncertainty of long term success are duly noted.

I would much rather a hungry heart then an empty soul, begot of love, compassion or desire.

And, to whom is this directed? 

[dennislevy]

When a man SOTB is MOTIVATED, he can also be very EXCITED.!!!!!! jejejeje. The Spanish speakers will get it.
 
The important thing is to THINK, and not to POINT....at least not until you have a good idea of who the woman is. When a man has real experience, has some keys to the culture and speaks Spanish he has a much better idea of what he is doing.
 
I appreciate the comment that maritime04 made...Im not a short time tourist, certainly not a wife hunter and not a gringo living a Western lifestyle.
 
I just live and travel in South America...and I like a wide range of women...
 

[Calipro]

When a man SOTB is MOTIVATED, he can also be very EXCITED.!!!!!! jejejeje. The Spanish speakers will get it.
 
The important thing is to THINK, and not to POINT....at least not until you have a good idea of who the woman is. When a man has real experience, has some keys to the culture and speaks Spanish he has a much better idea of what he is doing.
 
I appreciate the comment that maritime04 made...Im not a short time tourist, certainly not a wife hunter and not a gringo living a Western lifestyle.
 
I just live and travel in South America...and I like a wide range of women...

Only one question comes to mind.......Have you ever been married or are you a lifelong fornicator?

[fathertime]

Only one question comes to mind.......Have you ever been married or are you a lifelong fornicator?

Levy posted in the flame room a while back that he:


1.  was married for a long time to a wife in a loveless marriage, which produced a son.


2...he divorced her and then after a trip to colombia in 2003, after which he promptly remarried the first wife and this time it lasted less than a year.


3.  he then remarried another american lady and it lasted somewhere around a few weeks.


that is what Levy has written in the past on this site, it may have been deleted at his request though now... 


Fathertime! 

[maritime04]

I would much rather a hungry heart then an empty soul, begot of love, compassion or desire.

That was a statement, i meant to say in direct conflict with the hungry heart statement, again i do not know you enough to make assumptions of you person, but if i choose to insult you (which I should not do) i will be MUCH more direct.  Nobody here should feel the need to toss insults, I just found it odd you used hungry hart, in a negative context like wanting passion and love are bad things.

Come on dude, you have made your personal opinions of wife-hunters known, just because I call you on the crap you give, and toss it right back at you does not mean you should back down. It does mean you should be more articulate in your responses

Some men are VERY excited and motivated to find a wife.  Should that surprise you?   When a person is VERY excited and motivated, such a person may not apply the best judgment.  Again, this should surprise no one.   

Yes and the VERY existence of this website instead of propagating the imaginary fantasy of candy land that you seem to support, show the reserve many wife-hunters take, they come here looking for knowledge and information from others with experience NOT exactly the behavior of school boys with bad judgment running wild when parents are not looking.
Your ford motor car example is silly, SERIOUSLY you would love to compare wife-hunting to car shopping! Why is that? Just come out and say what you want to say, instead of beating around the bush. Nobody here to my knowledge behaves so irrationally, quite the contrary the advice I see  here is much more thought full and slow paced, again my opinion.

Your overall theme of “just-live” and go with it, I can understand, you are just poorly explaining it. Many people take different paths, none is better than the other.  You have no right to give these guys [snip], than they have to give you for the life that you lead. If your true argument is that wife-hunters are wasting their time with their obsession and end goal of getting married, instead of living their life to the fullest by taking advantage of the current economic and social degradation of Colombia, it’s a poor argument for the reasons I have continually stated. Our time here is running short because my ticket off this bucket will soon get stamped, I have to say you made the time go bye fast, thank you and happy holidays.

[Dan]

Levy posted in the flame room a while back that he:


1.  was married for a long time to a wife in a loveless marriage, which produced a son.


2...he divorced her and then after a trip to colombia in 2003, after which he promptly remarried the first wife and this time it lasted less than a year.


3.  he then remarried another american lady and it lasted somewhere around a few weeks.


that is what Levy has written in the past on this site, it may have been deleted at his request though now... 


Fathertime!

Two points:

1. Material posted in the Flame Room should remain there. No exceptions. There is a reason it is THERE and it is NOT for publication in the open forum.

2. No one need post for another member. Let each member post their own responses (or not) to questions.

- Dan

[Dan]

Only one question comes to mind.......Have you ever been married or are you a lifelong fornicator?

You should allow consideration for other possibilities than the two you listed.

- Dan

[dennislevy]

Dan...
thank you..
 
Calipro
 
Yes, I ve been married to two American women. The mother of our son and I tried a reconciliation and re marriage, it didn t work and it was anulled by a sympathetic judge. Between the two efforts, we had 22 and a half years together
 
I respect her and she is a fabulous mother. I give most of the credit to her for how well our son turned out. we stay in touch and I called her and our son  on Thanksgiivng Day
 
I was briefly married for two months to a brillant but emotionally erratic high school history teacher who ran away....
 
And I ve been a fornicator in South America (as you SO gracefully put it, jejejeje) since 2008.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   

[dennislevy]

I don t think that Zon is completley dismissive of wife hunters.
 
Many times men try to be something that threy are not back home.
Many men have NO idea of what they really WANT
Many men aren t realistic about the types of women that they can physically attract without paying for sex, but they don t  want to admit it
Many men change their thinking and their self definiition of who they are after they been at it a while.
 
Many men men simply want sex.....as often...as possible...mongers, sex tourists
 
I DO respect the SINCERE wife hunters, but sincerity doesn t guarantee success. I am inclined to think that most who start are NOT well prepared. There is a lot of self preparation that a man CAN do before he goes the first time overseas and MOST don t do it.
 
I was probably better prepared then many because I was always realistic about who I could attract and I had 150 hours of self taught Spanish...and I thought I wanted a wife...and I was clear about that....but when I think of myself back then .... I laugh at some of the stuff I thought..........
 
Men go though diferent stages,
some start off as one label, and then find someone and become exclusive and marry
Some men move here and change everything,
Some catch lightning in a bottle, they find the one
Some invest time and money getting to know ONE woman, sometimes it works, somtimes it doesn t
 
what I think is true s that we shoud all grow as men...
 
At least, hopefully speak another language and respect the culture in which we re searching