budgeting...

[chameleon]

I'm working on my finances for next year. Things I want, replenishing and boosting the emergency fund, vacations, engagement ring and wedding bands, wedding, immigration fees etc.


There's no guarantee I'll marry my novia but it's more likely than not, I think. We're planning on  taking a trip to Argentina soon. It was my suggestion because a) i thought she might like to see something different bc she's never been out of the country (or much outside baq) and b) I don't feel any particular draw to colombia, and in particular i don't feel much draw to BAQ. It's boring, there's nothing to do, and the food sucks (Peru and Argentina are both far superior in the culinary dept). If all goes well i'd probably propose to her at the end of the trip and then plan a marriage a short while later so that we can get the immigration process started asap.


I don't know what to do for an engagement ring. A part of me hates the whole industry and a part of me would want to get her something really nice because it will make her happy (let's face it, all girls love diamonds), but there's no way i'm leaving an expensive ring with her in colombia. I've seen mention of going the cheaper route and buying a platinum ring with a small stone (maybe .5ct) for a couple K and letting her keep that. Don't really like the idea of upgrading. It just seems tacky to replace the original ring/sentiment solely for the sake of more bling. Is even what I'm proposing too much of a lure in poor area? Thoughts?


Also, what are your thoughts on weddings down there? I know she wants about 20 people and a beach wedding. My preference would have been a wedding on san andreas, but i'm not going to fly everyone there and i'm doubting they can afford it on their own. Santa Marta was better than BAQ, but not exactly stunning.


Can weddings be done way out in the isolation of Tayrona? At least Tayrona is interesting and they'd be able to do a jungle tour or something. I'm thinking about my family too... Don't think they'll really like the idea of travelling to colombia, and will probably like it less when they are there, with the exception of my brother. None of them speak a word of spanish and they'd all stick out as complete tourists, which does cause some concern. At least I'd been to south america before.... It will also be a weird dynamic with both sides unable to speak to each other. And frankly, I worry about people in my family (mostly my mother) acting offensively. What sort of money would i be looking at for 25 people in SM/Tayrona on the beach? Anyone know? I'm not looking to plan specifics now but want to start getting a general idea...

[braziliangirl]

I'm working on my finances for next year. Things I want, replenishing and boosting the emergency fund, vacations, engagement ring and wedding bands, wedding, immigration fees etc.

(...)
We're planning on  taking a trip to Argentina soon.
(...)

I don't know what to do for an engagement ring. A part of me hates the whole industry and a part of me would want to get her something really nice because it will make her happy (let's face it, all girls love diamonds), but there's no way i'm leaving an expensive ring with her in colombia. I've seen mention of going the cheaper route and buying a platinum ring with a small stone (maybe .5ct) for a couple K and letting her keep that. Don't really like the idea of upgrading. It just seems tacky to replace the original ring/sentiment solely for the sake of more bling. Is even what I'm proposing too much of a lure in poor area? Thoughts?

First of all, congrats on the choice! Argentina is a very romantic place.
Second... Check if giving/receiving a diamond engagement ring is something people do in Colombia. In Brazil, it's not part of the culture. When people get engaged, they just use bands on the right hand, and use the same ones (or upgrade) and change to the left hand.
I understand why you don't want to leave her with an expensive ring in Colombia. And of course Colombian guys don't give expensive diamond rings when they get engaged. So just find out how they do there... I'm sure she will be happy the same way, and if she was not raised expecting for a big diamond, she would be as happy with a plain band.

[JimD]

You don't want to take the whole crowd to Parque Tayrona. It's a long ways from Barranquilla and when you get off the bus it's a fourty five minute hike to get to the beach, less if you rent horses but there won't be enough for everyone (maybe ten). So instead do it at the hotel Pradomar. It's right on the beach a short way out of the city and I'm sure they've done plenty of weddings and receptions.

[whitey]

It's true a lot of Colombian guys can't afford rings.  But, it's also true that all the malls in Colombia have jewelery stores with wedding/engagement rings, just like here in gringolandia.

While I can't stand the whole De Beers fueled diamond ring expectations, you also have to consider that while you could get away with a cheap ring in Colombia, she's going to be living in your country soon.  So ... if you don't want all the hens clucking about what a cheap gringo she is married to, you may want to consider something appropriate for here.

I bought my wife's engagement and wedding ring at a nice jewelery shop in BuenaVista.  I was happy with the price, and my wife was very happy too.  She wore her rings in Colombia, but not all the time, and not everywhere she went.

Re a wedding location ...

My recommendation would be to have the ceremony and party in Barranquilla.  Much easier for her friends and family to attend.  There are some very nice Salones de Eventos you can rent for the evening in North Barranquilla.

Then if you like, you can't invite some family to join you later in Santa Marta or IMO better, in Cartagena for a couple days.  Not sure if getting married in Parque Tayrona is possible, maybe, but it would DEFINITELY be very impractical.  Access is by small boat, horse, or two hour hike through the forest.

[chameleon]

^^ I AM conscious of that and the problem is, something appropriate for here starts at 10k and I really don't want her walking around with a ring like that in Colombia and i'd even have difficulty with her keeping it in her house bc i know how women are. She'd want to show it to friends, someone would blab, and the wrong person might hear about it. Loss of the ring is actually the least worry there. I also hate the idea of buying a 2k ring (or whatever) and throwing it away for a 10k+ ring because of what that represents, but what can you do?


If i did go that route though, I guess it could fly? Get some form of placeholder for colombia, maybe juts the wedding band, and give her the "real" ring when she lands here so that she (and I through her) doesn't have to listen to superficial AWs talking about how cheap I am? And then maybe then she could have more input into the ring too...


As for a potential future wedding, i'm of half a mind to only invite my brother (because he speaks some spanish and would be the only one that would like colombia). Don't think my dad cares (he's not the sentimental type), my mother is a nutjob and has no money, and my sister is super-paranoid about colombia and lives in an inaccessible part of the country and has probably taken her vacation already. Plus my parents hate each other, my brother fights with sister's bf. Mother fights with sister's bf. Mother fights with brother. Sister and father don't talk. Our family is FUBAR...

[whitey]

Well, I'm no expert on rings, nor do I ever want to be ... but ...

It seems to me the difference between a $10,000 ring and one less than $2,000 that LOOKS just as nice is the quality and size of the diamond.

You can buy her the ring with zirconia, then replace it (or not) with a diamond later.  The gold is 18 karat in Colombia which is usually better quality than up here I think ...

[Micky]

Cham -

This is a response to both of your recent posts,  Budgeting and Helping out - the money issue.

I don't know about anyone else,  but you are freaking me out (of course that is not important,  happens all the time).  I know you are a very analytical type and a smart guy to boot,  but damn,  you better start incorporating a Colombian point of reference.  Take your foot off the gas and tap the break.

One -  Forward planning may be good for you,  but to a average Colombian if today is Friday and they are thinking about something on Monday,  they are planning way ahead.

Second -  Any wedding/engagement ring purchasing in Colombia,  keep it low digit and simple.  If you want to upgrade later in the States,  so be it.  Again you are talking about a YEAR or TWO wages (Colombian)  for a %#$@ ring!    What kind of message do you think that sends?

Three -  Wedding plans,  the entire entourage to SM,  Tayrona,  a beach wedding?  As Whitey said,  a normal move here is a banquet hall with everything covered.  I think,  but do not know,  is that castle at Salgar may be place to do that.  Any beach close to Baq,  not exactly the Bahamas.

Four -  A vacation together to Argentina.  I understand you want to go someplace nice,  romantic and all of that.  Has she ever been out of Atlantico,  Bolivar or Magdalena?  Maybe to a nice hotel in Bogota, Medellin or even Providencia.  She should be very happy to go anywhere and spend time with her man.
 
It is like there is someone who has never driven a car in their life and you hand them the keys to a Ferrari. You want to take her straight from chorizo to caviar.  She is a working class Colombian and you are thinking in terms of upper middle class America.  I may be completely off here,  I am old,  cold and bold. Since I live here I may not really relate all that well with the reality of the "wife hunter."  At least believe me when I say I am not trying to throw water on your campfie,  just sharing thoughts that I have reading your posts,  you may have it all right.

Micky                                                                     

[whitey]

Very good advice, Micky.

[maritime04]

you going K-3 route? why not K-1 ? or does the wedding have to be in colombia?

[chameleon]

Cham -

This is a response to both of your recent posts,  Budgeting and Helping out - the money issue.

I don't know about anyone else,  but you are freaking me out (of course that is not important,  happens all the time).  I know you are a very analytical type and a smart guy to boot,  but damn,  you better start incorporating a Colombian point of reference.  Take your foot off the gas and tap the break.

One -  Forward planning may be good for you,  but to a average Colombian if today is Friday and they are thinking about something on Monday,  they are planning way ahead.

Second -  Any wedding/engagement ring purchasing in Colombia,  keep it low digit and simple.  If you want to upgrade later in the States,  so be it.  Again you are talking about a YEAR or TWO wages (Colombian)  for a %#$@ ring!    What kind of message do you think that sends?

Three -  Wedding plans,  the entire entourage to SM,  Tayrona,  a beach wedding?  As Whitey said,  a normal move here is a banquet hall with everything covered.  I think,  but do not know,  is that castle at Salgar may be place to do that.  Any beach close to Baq,  not exactly the Bahamas.

Four -  A vacation together to Argentina.  I understand you want to go someplace nice,  romantic and all of that.  Has she ever been out of Atlantico,  Bolivar or Magdalena?  Maybe to a nice hotel in Bogota, Medellin or even Providencia.  She should be very happy to go anywhere and spend time with her man.
 
It is like there is someone who has never driven a car in their life and you hand them the keys to a Ferrari. You want to take her straight from chorizo to caviar.  She is a working class Colombian and you are thinking in terms of upper middle class America.  I may be completely off here,  I am old,  cold and bold. Since I live here I may not really relate all that well with the reality of the "wife hunter."  At least believe me when I say I am not trying to throw water on your campfie,  just sharing thoughts that I have reading your posts,  you may have it all right.

Micky                                                                   

1- point taken
2-ditto (so how much are we talking here lol? what's typical for colombia? blame debeers and years of AW brainwashing)
3-there's my family to consider too.... i disliked my cousin's wedding at some banquet hall and at that wedding both families could actually talk to each other. If i'm making people travel thousands of miles, shouldn't it be to some place they won't hate at least? (even if i can barely stand a good chunk of the family). Nobody except my brother has an open mind regarding colombia. Pretty sure they won't find much to like about baq.
4-Argentina is completely about me. I was originally just gonna go back to colombia, but then i started wondering why not go somewhere else and just bring her along? You're right that she probably would be happy travelling within the country. I would just VASTLY prefer going to Argentina because I DO want to go some place nice. I want good food/wine and to be able to enjoy myself in nice surroundings w/o worrying so much about [snip] happening. I know medellin is nice but neither medellin nor bogota can compete with BA. Been to CTG and SM and so has she. You're worried it'll be sending the wrong message about my lifestyle or give too much info about how much money i have? Or is there some other reason? Don't we all basically accept that these girls are  going to think we're rich no matter what we do? Do you really think taking her to argentina vs san andreas or providencia, or even medellin or bogota would really make a difference to her outlook towards me and the money i may or may not have? Honest question.


The way i'm playing it is if things/money become an issue again after i've clearly told her what i am and am not willing to do in that regard, i will most likely end it, but she hasn't shown any signs of going back there. I've got about 2 months before we take our trip and things could change but no point worrying too much about it before it happens. Nothing is booked yet so i could easily change the plans, but i'm not sure i want to bc i haven't been to argentina and really want to go.

[chameleon]

you going K-3 route? why not K-1 ? or does the wedding have to be in colombia?

has to be there. where i'm from there are no fiance visas.

[maritime04]

ooh it says your country is US? my mistake.

[JWR]

$10,000 on a ring.....seriously?  Why go all the way to Colombia to keep playing these bullsh## games of
 $ value devotion.
 
Doesn't matter what is on her finger, the hens are going to go crazy over this.  People love to talk, and none of it will be good.  Get over that right now.  The size of her diamond will be the least of what they will be talking about.  I agree, get a big zirconia, or a moizonite.  By the time you are done with this, you will have way over 10 grand in travel, and all sorts of expenses.  Don't waste the money on the ring.  Anyone says anything, tell them that you couldn't afford an expensive ring after purchasing your expensive wife online.  Take the 10,000 that you would have spent on the ring, and put it in an offshore account in hiding.  If you get divorced, you may be glad you saved it.  If all is happy, spend it on some great vacation at your 10 year anniversary.
 
You will save yourself alot of stress if you keep your new marriage to yourself, and fly under the radar for as long as possible.  Give her a chance to adjust slowly without announcing to the world what you've been up to.  The ridicule will come soon enough, and it's better if it comes in smaller doses.  Keep your business private.
 
Expect the worse from American culture accepting your new relationship, and just maybe you will be surprised.  You are about to become "one of those guys" that marries a young 3rd world poor girl.  Her circumstances don't matter because that's what people will believe.  You will never live this reputation down no matter what happens.  Sorry to be negative, but it's better if you get a thick skin right now.
 
I saw a beautiful wedding reception at the Castillo de Salgar there in BAQ last year.  That is where I would have mine if I were to get married there.
 
Best of luck.
 
 

[dennislevy]

Chameleon et al
I don t claim to have closed a colombiana for engagement, jejejeje.....nor have I wanted to for quite a while-but I  ve seen a fair amount of behind the scenes stuff and translated and shopped for prices with three gringo grooms....

Its COLOMBIA, not the US.....Diamonds? cmon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 As has been said, diamond engagement rings are the ultimate marketing hustle perpetrated by de Beers, etc.   
But, if you feel that you MUST buy a nice ring, think EMERALDS. that s what Colombia produces! You can spend a few hours in the jewelry district in Bogota  and pick up a nice emerald channel ring for about $300-400, or YOU SURE CAN SPEND MORE......Or you can buy a showy aquamarine semi precious stone or a very nice silver ring for between $85 and $250..OR YOU SURE CAN SPEND MORE.....}
 
but diamonds?
 
If she s the right girl for you, she ll be happy with whatever you put on her finger..
 
If her family is from Baranquilla, it woud seem to make sense to get married there, unless you feel like springing for a bunch of hotel rooms!!!!!! !  I ve stayed at the Prado del Mar in Puerto Colombia, 30 minutes by cab down the coast from Baranquilla, as Jim D says...its right on the beach, AND terrific chow, very nice place for a recpetion and a honeymoon night(s) Or you can have the wedding and reception in Baranquilla at any number of hotels including two other Hotel Prados in Baranquilla.
 
25 people? Does that include her list? ?? ?
 
But if you are going to to get married in Colombia, have your paperwork in at least 9 weeks BEFORE the wedding date...
 
If the Buenos Aires trip is all about you, then why do it? There a lot of nice places in Colombia that she might want to see....

Dennis
   
   

[Researcher]

     A word on the ring.I bought my wife a nice engagement/wedding ring set.She wouldn't wear it out in Bogota because she would clearly have gotten robbed.We both wear gold bands and haven't removed them since we were married but she still doesn't wear the diamonds I gave her except on special occasions.I don't know if your lady will be the same but my wife doesn't seem comfortable wearing them.


      Researcher

[Gato4Astrid]

Cham


I bought my ex-novia an engagement ring for slightly less than $500 US.  I bought it from a mall in Modela, Bogota.   She was very happy with the engagement ring.   Now, we aren't together anymore, but thankfully for only less than $500 US for it rather than $thousands!!


My current novia - not yet engaged.

[InnocentVixen]

chameleon, I think it's great that you plan ahead this much, you are obviously serious about your search and it's always good to be prepared... it's also great you've found yourself a nice novia and possible bride, but just make sure that you look around how things are done there, which you are already doing by asking on this board... but ask her as well, they might do things over there certain ways but she might have looked outside her country because she expects something else, I think I said it before but will say it again, if you don't know what kind of ring she would like, odds are you don't know her well enough to give her one, then again if you already talked about what kind of wedding she would like there is no reason why you should be shy asking about what kind of ring she would like.


I would also like to suggest you give some thought to that trip to Venezuela, it is great that is something you want to do and you want to include your novia in your plans, it will certainly be romantic and exciting experience... just be careful that when the time comes, the wedding is not all about you like the trip and that your novia is not just following your lead for the same reasons she went with you on that trip, not saying she is not being honest but people can get carried away.


From what I've heard foreign brides tend to be a lot more simple when it comes to weddings compared to AW, most of us will not care about having a huge fancy ring but it is still nice if we get something we like (it IS supposed to stay on our finger the rest of our lives after all) and we still enjoy doing the planning and all that, if you want to be involved in that, bonus points for you, but it wouldn't be a good idea to leave the bride out of the planning, if she wants a beach wedding and you are not against the idea, that is what you guys should get, it sounds like it might be a bit hard to pull off so talk with your novia about other options if that is not possible, I bet if she has to choose between having a fancy beach wedding without her family or something else with her family, she will take the second option and it will still turn out to be great because at the end all it matters is that you marry the right person.

[chameleon]

Dennis, she wants to go too, but she'd be just as happy to spend the time colombia. Since i have a strong desire to see Argentina, that's where we're going.  Anyway, i figure i'll spend enough time in colombia if things go forward. I'm set on Argentina for this trip and we'll take it from there.


And ya, early on while we were still within the agency process I asked what her ideal wedding would be. Her answer was 20 people from her side and a wedding on the beach (actually we were at hotel pradomar at the time lol). The 20 include her immediate family (they are 6 siblings) and nieces/nephews, and her best friend. This was before i dropped any hints about wanting a small beach wedding. If i had a choice it would be in bora bora with just a witness because it's absolutely gorgeous and my family irritates me, but i know it's more about her. I don't give much of a damn about the actual wedding ceremony so i'd try to give her what she wants to the degree I can. I care a lot more about the ensuing marriage. Anyway, it may go up to 30 max depending on who comes from my side. Anyone know what a wedding at hotel pradomar (i assume this is the place on the beach with the thatched umbrellas) costs?


JWR,
My best friend (a woman) has actually been very non-judgmental and supportive about this whole thing. She wants me to be careful but doesn't hold it against me. We're very open though and she knows much more sensitive secrets. My male friends just think she's hot and pat me on the back. None of them are married yet so i don't have to deal with [snip] from their wives. I don't talk to people at work about my personal life and never have, nor will i ever beyond telling them i'm married.


Anyway, we're not there yet. We've spoken about this stuff casually but she knows i haven't made any decision yet.


edit: IV, I did ask, rightly or wrongly, what she expects (so used to dealing with women here it didn't even cross my mind that she wouldn't be expecting that sort of question). She doesn't care about the ring. She said to pick something i liked.

[dennislevy]

chameleon et al.
 
If you ve  got a potenial fiancee that said pick a ring that YOU like.......... and she only wants to invite 20-and can hold firm to 20 from her  side....I d say you ve got the makings of a winner! jejejejeje
 
And spending less then more on an engagement ring reduces the risk.... because IF the engagement doesnt progress to marriage, almost for sure you WON T get the ring back...which was the point of Gato s post. In Colombia a gift is for keeps, jejejeje..
 
Yes, the Prado del Mar is the hotel with the thatched umbrellas over the tables on the beach. . YOU talked about a marriage on the beach.. 
 
Are you  Catholics? I DOUBT if a Catholic priest will do a wedding on the beach!!!!!!  If you are Catholics, possibly you can get married in  the Catholic church in Puerto Colombia, rent the church. etc.  but it is a  10 to 15 minute drive to the hotel  And if you have a church wedding, you will have townspeople wandering in and out, plopping themselves down and watching the show!!!!! I went  to a wedding in THAT church!
 
So a beach wedding is hiring a minister from another religion to do a ceremony. And paying the hotel to use the beach....
 
Or a civil ceremony.. If its a civil ceremony in Baranquilla at a notaria, you can pay for taxis to and from the Prado del mar in Puerto Colombia.  Shoud cost you about 15,000 a cab trip and you can get 4 people into a cab..
 
That is if you re not going to spring for rooms for her relatives.
 
And if depends on what you want for a reception...Do you want a sit down meal on the terrace or inside? For a fixed menu for 30, you should pay about 600,000 to 750,000 COP, and possbly incluing a glass of wine or champagne. Don t be afraid to negotiate.....
 
The nicest room in the hotel with a view overlooking the water, as I recall was  190,000 COP and this goes back to March, 2011 when I was last there with a woman.  We had a very nice room with a rack rate of 136,000 a night but not a view of the water and I paid 330,000 for three nights.
 
As for a dress, to RENT a traditonal white wedding dress for a day (even in Baranquilla) will cost several hundred dollars FOR a DAY. And you CAN give her money for material and her and the women relatives in her family will knock themslves out MAKING a dress! Something that will be hers to keep....
 
OK, that s my initial take on a beach wedding outside of Baranquilla
   

[Alabamaboy!]

I think most Colombianas would be super happy with a $2-4K ring. Tops. If you pay more than that, you may just be making yourself look like a sucker and could attract trouble.

I looked into San Andres as a place to get married because it used to be very simple process to do it there. But they changed the laws and I don't think you can even marry there at all unless your wife is from there.

I think the notary wedding, with a big party afterward in a rented hall, with a nice honeymoon to Rodadero is a good, solid, inexpensive plan which most Barranquilleras would be super happy with. Just don't skimp on the rum and whiskey budget. 

[chameleon]

Hmm... Who usually does beach weddings at prado del mar and what do they say if not the usual stuff a catholic priest says? I hadn't even thought about the issue of a priest not being willing to do it. She believes in god but isn't catholic, and i don't believe in anything, so I was thinking we'd do the notary thing (if/when we get there), but I thought that was just a quick visit to sign some documents and make it official. It hadn't occurred to me about the actual ceremony.... Wonder if it occurred to her?


For the dress, I don't mind paying to have something nice made for her, after all, I'll most likely be having my tailor make mine after i figure out the beach/notary thing and what will be appropriate attire.


alabamaboy, i read that about San Andreas too. It's really too bad. You can still do a ceremony there but it's not a legal marriage so you still have to do the notary thing.

[whitey]

I think most Colombianas would be super happy with a $2-4K ring. Tops. If you pay more than that, you may just be making yourself look like a sucker and could attract trouble.

Yikes!  I hope so ... the two rings I bought her didn't cost that much!

[whitey]

For the dress, I don't mind paying to have something nice made for her, after all, I'll most likely be having my tailor make mine after i figure out the beach/notary thing and what will be appropriate attire.

She should be able to have a really nice dress made for under $150.  I think my wife paid $80 ... not sure if that included the material.

[Gato4Astrid]

I think most Colombianas would be super happy with a $2-4K ring.

My grandmother would say that it is the thought that count. 

[Gato4Astrid]

Cham


What is so special about Argentina?  For sure, you won't find Lionel Messi there