Disappearing Posts

[JimD]

This morning I read an amusing and I thought inoffensive post by new memeber Viking about a Colombian in Canada. Checking again later in the day the post seems to have disappeared. Why? If it´ shere somewhere and I've just misplaced the thread my apologies.

[Dan]

This morning I read an amusing and I thought inoffensive post by new memeber Viking about a Colombian in Canada. Checking again later in the day the post seems to have disappeared. Why?

That post was a 'post by proxy.' If the author of the material wishes to post here at PL, by all means invite them here to register their own account.

- Dan

[JimD]

That post was a 'post by proxy.' If the author of the material wishes to post here at PL, by all means invite them here to register their own account.

- Dan

Dan I don't get it are you saying somebody other than Viking used his account here to post the story? Is that what a "post by proxy" is? I'm a "low tech" guy and there's probobly a couple of others here too so please clarify for us. Also so what happened to the post, did you delete it?  If so too bad because it really was innocently amusing.

[Dan]

Dan I don't get it are you saying somebody other than Viking used his account here to post the story? Is that what a "post by proxy" is? I'm a "low tech" guy and there's probobly a couple of others here too so please help us understand. Also so what happened to the post, did you delete it?

Jim,

There is not much to "get" - even for the "low tech" folks.

If someone wants to post here - they can register an account. If one of our members finds something that someone authored elsewhere and would like to see it posted here - they are free to invite the author to register an account to post it. Not too difficult - is it?

- Dan

[Woody]

Dan,
I'm guessing it is more of a copyright thing than anything else. Would I be correct?


P.S. Might want to up the teaser page count to 10 pages. I didn't realize I wasnt logged in (iPhone) and I only got two threads open before the wall hit me. I think it counts index views as page views. Might want to check into that.




Jim, it was pretty hilarious.

[JimD]

Not to beleager the point but I'm still not clear. Do you mean Viking posted a story here that he came accross written by someone else ( the Colombian in Canada one supposes or some one who made up the tale) and he shouldn't have because he didn't place quotation marks around it and post a link to the author (like I do when I post something ie a news article)? Or do you mean that the author of the joke/story (Colombian in Canada or other) has to register here in order for the story to appear here? As I said I´m not trying to beleager the point but if it's required here that quotations and links to original material quoted are included in posts folks should know.   

[Bob_S]

Dan,
I'm guessing it is more of a copyright thing than anything else. Would I be correct?

Mostly.  This isn't like referencing a public news article, for example quoting from a Bloomberg Financial News article about the impact of the Free Trade Agreement to back up an argument.  A private individual writes a post for another blog site, that creates 2 possible legal issues to contend with.  Either the original author or the blog host could come here and cause problems for Dan, demanding that the post and all references be taken down or else because they don't like their pearls cast before our swine, or what have you.  Remember that everything we write here becomes value added content to boost the site reputation and traffic.  Taking someone else's value added content from their site to add to your own without permission or compensation can lead to all kinds of trouble.  It's a kind of intellectual theft.  So as a general rule, don't copy whole sale someone else's stuff from another site to post here.  Either the original author can come here and re-post it their self or you can post a link to the content within the context of a relevant post topic.  In this particular case, the topic of assimilation issues of tropical South Americans adapting to the Great White North would be a value added topic, so the original author would be very welcome to post his personal experiences in person.  But not by proxy.

Mod Bob

[JimD]

Bob thank you for taking the time to answer the question clearly. You seem to have a level head about you.

[vikingo]

My apologies, Dan and Bob_S, I had no idea this post would cause problems for you, I was more concerned about some of the vulgarity. This material was sent to me by a friend from Cali who sends me funny stuff all the time.
I did some research on Google with the same title and there it was, the first article: http://vidaydiario.blogspot.com/2005/04/diario-de-un-colombiano-en-canada.html
there is also a video of it by youtube and something about it in Facebook.
Here is the Google search site:
http://www.google.com.co/#sclient=psy-ab&hl=es&source=hp&q=un+colombiano+en+canada&pbx=1&oq=un+colombiano+en+canada&aq=f&aqi=&aql=1&gs_sm=s&gs_upl=37203l49328l3l52657l32l24l1l0l0l0l0l0ll1l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=b925ef97b84a5446&biw=1266&bih=836
 
Would it be legal then to copy and paste articles we find on Google or refer to a website only?
Still not sure. Can I post the google article article again under a proper subject?
Sure would love to share it with fellow members if I'm allowed.

[JimD]

I hope you're allowed. It was very funny and it would be nice to have it back.

[Bob_S]

My apologies, Dan and Bob_S, I had no idea this post would cause problems for you, I was more concerned about some of the vulgarity.

No problem.  You meant well, and your efforts are certainly appreciated.  And do keep an eye on the vulgarity.  The site's auto-filters catch English vulgarity, but not so many offensive words from other languages.

Would it be legal then to copy and paste articles we find on Google or refer to a website only?
Still not sure. Can I post the google article article again under a proper subject?
Sure would love to share it with fellow members if I'm allowed.

As a lowly Mod, I can't speak to the detailed specifics of what is legal.  As a business owner, Dan would have lawyers to advise him on that.  But as a general rule, to avoid stepping on the intellectual property rights of others, it is ill-advised to be copying the entire post of somebody else from another web site.  But posting a small teaser excerpt along with a link is generally allowed in the general forum sections.

For example, say I found an interesting article by Robert J. Samuelson about a trade war with China.  This topic would be of interest to several of our members that have wives or sweeties from China.  But if I were to cut and paste the whole article, even if I referenced the author, it would be copyright infringement.  Samuelson gets paid by periodicals and web sites for his work.  But what I could do is write "R.J. Samuelson wrote an interesting piece in which he said '-blah blah blah' (<-- quoting a sentence or two), and here is the link." (<-- note the embedded hyperlink)  For those interested in the subject, that drives traffic to the site that does compensate the author, so all is good.  And posting links to YouTube is generally allowed (as long as you're not posting a link to PornTube or something like that).

So for the diary post you are referring to, if there is an excerpt you thought was particularly poignant, you should be able to quote just a sentence or two, but then link back to the original article if anyone wants to read it in its entirety.  The subject matter is very relevant to this site's interest, namely adaptation of a spouse to a new country.  My wife has her own blog where she writes about that in Japanese, and she has blog friends who are Japanese wives married to foreigners who also have Nihongo blogs about adjusting to life in the U.S., Germany, and the UK.

The Joke Page is another matter entirely.  We all get e-mail jokes where we have no idea who wrote the joke or story initially, so we sort of look the other way when you re-post a joke in that forum.

[thekfc]

The post was remove because as stated by Dan it was a 'post by proxy'.  I think we are talking about different things here.

[Ray]

For example, say I found an interesting article by Robert J. Samuelson about a trade war with China. This topic would be of interest to several of our members that have wives or sweeties from China. But if I were to cut and paste the whole article, even if I referenced the author, it would be copyright infringement. Samuelson gets paid by periodicals and web sites for his work. But what I could do is write "R.J. Samuelson wrote an interesting piece in which he said '-blah blah blah' (<-- quoting a sentence or two), and here is the link." (<-- note the embedded hyperlink) For those interested in the subject, that drives traffic to the site that does compensate the author, so all is good.

Copyright infringement? Are you sure about that Bob?
　
I think what you are stating here is a completely new policy for Planet-Love. I have been cutting and pasting entire published news articles here for as long as I have been on the forum.
　
If someone posts a link to an article that they read on-line, I often won’t bother to open the link and read it. I often find that the link is dead or you have to register with the publication to read the article, etc., etc… It is so much easier to just read the entire article right here on the forum.
　
When I do copy a news article or commentary, I always try to clearly identify the source and the author, while providing a link to the original source wherever possible. This has NEVER been a problem here on the forum.
　
Sometimes, there are copies of copies of copies of popular stories or news articles that have been floating around the Net for a while so that it becomes virtually impossible to identify the original source or the true author.
　
I think the management should take a long, hard look at this before making any new policies that may have long lasting negative consequences.
　
As far as Dan’s policy of not copying and pasting posts from other forums or private blogs, I can fully understand that. I just see on-line publications and news sources as an entirely different matter.
　
Ray
　
　

[Bob_S]

Copyright infringement? Are you sure about that Bob?
　
I think what you are stating here is a completely new policy for Planet-Love. I have been cutting and pasting entire published news articles here for as long as I have been on the forum.
　
If someone posts a link to an article that they read on-line, I often won’t bother to open the link and read it. I often find that the link is dead or you have to register with the publication to read the article, etc., etc… It is so much easier to just read the entire article right here on the forum.
　
When I do copy a news article or commentary, I always try to clearly identify the source and the author, while providing a link to the original source wherever possible. This has NEVER been a problem here on the forum.
　
Sometimes, there are copies of copies of copies of popular stories or news articles that have been floating around the Net for a while so that it becomes virtually impossible to identify the original source or the true author.
　
I think the management should take a long, hard look at this before making any new policies that may have long lasting negative consequences.
　
As far as Dan’s policy of not copying and pasting posts from other forums or private blogs, I can fully understand that. I just see on-line publications and news sources as an entirely different matter.

Technically, it is not a new policy.  Back in the original rules, it is written...

P-L Terms of Service

Ownership and Rights

If you believe that your work has been copied and is accessible on this site in a way that constitutes copyright infringement, you may notify International Relations at its offices at the following address:

8200 South Quebec St., # A3-182
Englewood, CO 80112

...

Rules of Conduct

You are solely responsible for ensuring that any material or information you post anywhere on or through the site -- including but not limited to text, photographs, and sound -- does not violate the copyright, trademark, trade secret, or any other personal or proprietary rights of any third party or is posted with the permission of the owner(s) of such rights.

Now, when you're quoting a news source or publication, that should be okay since it would fall under the Fair Use doctrine.  Though in the above example, you'll find on R.J. Samuelson's article page a copyright mark, which can legally make things sticky.  But it really depends on how tough and annoying the news source's copyright lawyers want to be.  In the grand scheme of the Internet, this site should cruise under the radar of most big news organizations.  So if you're quoting fair use news sources, I'm certainly not going to stop you if Dan has no objections.  The main concern, as you said, has to do with cut and pastes from other 3rd party private blogs and forums that are on the same competitive level as this site and could raise a stink.

[JimD]

The post was remove because as stated by Dan it was a 'post by proxy'.  I think we are talking about different things here.

Yes thekfc there was certainly no reference to "copy write issues" in Dan's terse response. So if we are talking about diferent things here what's the other thing we're talking about?

[thekfc]

Yes thekfc there was certainly no reference to "copy write issues" in Dan's terse response. So if we are talking about diferent things here what's the other thing we're talking about?

I never said Dan made any references to "copy write issues". Dan said "post by proxy" while other posters were talking about copyright.

My post said that "post by proxy" and copyright are "different things".

[JimD]

I see. Well thank you for that clarification.