Love Continues in Barranquilla

[z_k_g]

Dennis,

Good counterpoints and a fair and balanced look at the female's side of the situation.

In one of my earlier posts I attempted to address the relationship aspect and his lack of developing a real sense of who she really is and what type of possible relationship was possible.  I really don't think cuddling and kissing count as the foundation for a meaningful relationship, no matter how intense.

Jv's lack of spanish and her lack of english skills is the most significant issue in my opinion (beyond his open wallet).

A lot of what we are speculating about would be (probably will be) resolved when he gets proficient. 

But along with decent language skills, he also needs to understand the culture (and the women) a lot better and I hope our posts have given him more enlightenment.

But....this needs to be repeated....

I know this will sound harsh, but why deal with a babe from a f*cked up home? 

So you spend thousands to travel to another country to deal with HER issues? 

That's gotta be totally insane and I would never do it. 

I'm not perfect, but a the end of all this YOU are the one who is working the long hours of overtime and making huge monetary sacrifices to find the right woman.  Why should you even consider dealing with damaged dysfunctional goods?

That's the cold hard truth, maybe a bit to cold, but somebody's gotta stop the violins.

There is no perfect woman, but when you embark on this type of search, try to get the best!

Get a wife, a life partner and a mother for your children, one that will fit all your needs and requirements and don't settle for less.

Zulu

[Researcher]

     Good points again Zulu.No need to settle in a place like Colombia.Too many gems out there.

    The no sex issue is neither here nor there for me.If a woman thinks it is too soon in a relationship that was OK for me.I always looked beyond the physical aspects anyway.

    Too many other issues there to deal with.


      Researcher

[Gato4Astrid]

I agree with Dennis on the sex issue.  They really haven't spent that much total time together. 

That's part of reason why I prefer to get to know before meeting.  I am not a fan of going to the agency, Jamie's or ACG or Maritans

[dennislevy]

Zulu et al
 
We dont KNOW for certain,  if the girl is damaged.....but certainly the environment and the family history is NOT good.

And if he wants to communicate with latin women and really understand them, jv should learn to speak and understand decent Spanish.
 
The Spanish is the first key, another is being able to recognize the cultural indicators that show where a woman fits in Colombian society. There are a gazillion beautiful women in Colombia (but what is more important then looks (but not limited to the following) are estrato and barrio, level of education, job, and family stability, number of children and under what circumstances and with how many men.

Understanding if a woman is emotionally stable or not....it s not that easy to judge without time spent in the culture. 

jv is going to do what he is going to do..
 
but jv , let me  suggest that you start reading up on fiancee and spousal visa requirements NOW

A young woman could possibly be a very good stepmother slash older sister to 4 young girls.....but IF your finances are that tight AND IF HER TWO KID SISTERS ARE PART OF THE PACKAGE......
 
WOW!!!!!!
 
Dennis
.
 
 
 

[benjio]

Zulu et al
 
We dont KNOW for certain,  if the girl is damaged.....but certainly the environment and the family history is NOT good.

And if he wants to communicate with latin women and really understand them, jv should learn to speak and understand decent Spanish.
 
The Spanish is the first key, another is being able to recognize the cultural indicators that indicate where a woman fits in Colombian society. There are a gazillion beautiful women in Colombia (but what is more important then looks (but not limited to the following) are estrato and barrio, level of education, job, and family stability, number of children and under what circumstances and with how many men.

Understanding if a woman is emotionally stable or not....it s not that easy to judge without time spent in the culture. 

jv is going to do what he is going to do..
 
but jv , let me  suggest that you start reading up on fiancee and spousal visa requirements NOW

A young woman could possibly be a very good stepmother slash older sister to 4 young girls.....but IF your finances are that tight AND IF HER TWO KID SISTERS ARE PART OF THE PACKAGE......
 
WOW!!!!!!
 
Dennis
.
 

I've been following this thread without any additional comments because everything I would have recommended JV doing has already been written. However, I would also like to commend your candidness. I think everyone on this board knows my opinion when it comes to dating Costenas so I don't think it's necessary to go on one of my tangents. Barranquilla is full of beautiful, single women that would like to be in a committed relationship with a gringo. Are most of those women emotionally equipped to maintain a long distance relationship? Does the Costeno culture embrace the idea of the best things coming with patience and instant gratification not being the personal preference in every situation? Do most relationshihps between a gringo and a Colombiana that begin this way result in marriage? NO, HELL NO, and HELL TO THE [snip]ING NO!!!
 
No matter what you chose to do, I would like to reiterate, and reiterate once again how important it is to learn Spanish FLUENTLY as DL stated in his last post. Without an efficient vessel of communication you'll be playing the guessing game for your entire relationship and the emotional roller coaster will never stop. Here's the part that's even more difficult. When you do learn Spanish you'll also have to become a great observer of body language. JV, I'm sure you've read this dozens of times on this board before but it's not a part of the Costeno culture to be up front and completely honest, especially when it comes to non-mutual feelings that may very well hurt someone else. You have to spend some serious face to face time with your girlfriend to determine whether or not she's feeling the same butterflies in her tummy as you are.
 
I know someone mentioned running your concerns by Jamie but I can already tell you what his response will probably be...and it ain't positive. As pessemistic as some of my opinions on this board may seem when it comes to dating Costenas, my paradigm was built from the experience of my own failed two year relationship, the dozens of relationships my ex-girlfriend's friends had with gringos, the gringos I've met the dozen times I stayed at Jamie's while visiting my ex-girlfriend, and the countless stories Jamie has told me while we were just sitting around his old beach house or the office. There are those on this forum that wouldn't value all that experience at a dime. I can't blame them...as it's just my 2¢.
 
With true love and hard work, anything is possible, but in my honest opinion, from what you've written in this most recent trip report, I don't see it working out. A good majority of the previous posts on this thread can provide you with the reasons why.

[dennislevy]

Benjio
 
Perfect!
 
Dennis

[Gato4Astrid]

When you do learn Spanish you'll also have to become a great observer of body language

You don't need a language to be able to read body language!!

[z_k_g]

You have to spend some serious face to face time with your girlfriend to determine whether or not she's feeling the same butterflies in her tummy as you are.

True dat!!

With true love and hard work, anything is possible, but in my honest opinion, from what you've written in this most recent trip report, I don't see it working out. A good majority of the previous posts on this thread can provide you with the reasons why.

Good post Benjio.

Zulu

[vikingo]

Most colombianas are ready for sex on the third date, but there are exceptions, like if she is young like cinderella, has only had one bf and got cheated on and is deeply hurt, if a breakup was very recent and she hasn't got over her ex and she is very cautious about the next relationship, etc. Have you not asked her anything about her past? It would be very unusual for an atractive 23 year old not to have been in a relationship. After this serious courtship on your part, I think you have earned the right to ask some personal questions, but by e-mail, not in front of Jamie's translator. Please keep us informed. BTW, you sound like good people, she would be lucky to have you. Obviously she knows about your 4 children and at her age she will want more kids, at least one, believe me. Is she willing to deal with a bunch of kids?
The fact that she had a falling out with her mom isn't all that bad. Latin mother's in law can be a royal pain. I should be so lucky. She sounds like a keeper to me. But I would be concerned how she is feeling about taking on 4 kids, unless they are going to be living with your ex-wife. When you are going back, just tell her (don't ask): Mi corazón, quiero ser tu novio de verdad y quiero intimidades contigo, tu sabes yo soy un hombre muy serio y te amo sinceramente. If she says, todavia no, then you insist on an explanation why not. The worst you can do is not communicating with her, they normally don't have a problem talking openly about these issues and are not offended.
Most posters here are ready to kick her to the curb if she doesn't put out on the second date, have you guy's tried to communicate with the women as to why they are reluctant? I can tell you from experience, the more serious they are about you, the longer they hold off as not to give an impression that they are easy or slutty.

[fathertime]

The fact that she had a falling out with her mom isn't all that bad. Latin mother's in law can be a royal pain. I should be so lucky. She sounds like a keeper to me. But I would be concerned how she is feeling about taking on 4 kids, unless they are going to be living with your ex-wife. .

I agree with Vikingo on this one...it is a big issue potentially....4 kids, especially daughters is a regular zoo and you really have to pick a woman that can handle all the moody attitudes that come up from time to time. It is likely that both the wife and the kids are going to have to be constantly nudged in the right direction.  Obviously the nudging has to come from you, so just be ready for it and be as gentle as possible!


Fathertime! 

[CeeTeeEnn]

The "walking ATM" issue aside, there are indeed red warning signs here regarding the sex issue.

She may have perfectly valid deep-seated reasons behind not wanting sexual intimacy at this stage. A no sex before marriage (or engagement) rule is one - it's rare, but not uncommon. Some Latinas distance themselves from the sex-drenched culture and adopt such a policy out of disdain for the actions of relatives and peers (not to mention the media!) This is a subtly different from having such rules "imposed" on them by the churches. However, there could be others that are potentially more serious, such as prior experience of rape and/or harrasment/abuse/molestation.

Either way, IMO she should have mentioned these to you by now - perhaps during your moment together in the Jacuzzi. The fact that she hasn't explained her actions (or inactions) to you yet is a warning sign. The onus now *must* be on her to explain herself to you honestly and comprehensively on the next occasion you meet - it shouldn't be necessary for you to try and coax any explanations out of her (infact i'd recommend against it as it may encourage her to improvise a cock and bull story!)

Just my £0.02

[vikingo]

Those cock and bull stories ceetee mentioned are the part that scares me more than anything, that is just about a deal breaker for me when a woman has trouble with the truth, unfortunately all to common with latinas who happily tell you what you want to hear.
 
jvoorhees, here is some advise from a man more than twice your age, first of all cut down your cost of staying in Barranquilla. My gf found a very decent hotel for me when I first arrived there, its called Exito, same name as the chain of large stores but no connection with them. It is in a relatively safe part of town for $40, if she is spending the night you pay about 8 bucks more for two people, no problem. http://www.hotelexito.com/ Go out to eat in the Buena Vista shopping center, see a movie at the top floor.
You can always go back to Jamies if you want to start over again.
This time you prepare yourself so you won't need an interpreter. In English write down questions you have for her, in ms-word for example, write down how you feel about her, your dreams for the future, if she is comfortable with your kids, if she is prepared to live with you in the cold country, at times colder than Bogotá, away from friends and family, if she has any concerns, that you can't wait to be intimate with her (never use the word sex), but most of all write something very romantic which isn't always easy for as dry Northeners. Now you open this site:
http://translate.google.com/#
Your English needs to be free of errors or the misspelled word won't get translated, that is why I'm using ms-word and it's spell checker (because English is my second language).
Machine translators will give you a mediocre translation, but she will understand everything if she is halfway intelligent. Then you have her take you to an Internet Café, pull up a second chair and open 'translate.google.com' for her and you two communicate that way, just the two of you.
As far as you being 'El señor cachero' or Mr. ATM, most colombianas who have no gringo experience have no concept of an apparent endless supply of dollars every gringo is blessed with. If one pays $100 a night for a hotel, which equals a weeks wages for her, what is a colombiana and her family supposed to think? The gringo is loaded.     

[whitey]

A no sex before marriage (or engagement) rule is one - it's rare, but not uncommon. Some Latinas distance themselves from the sex-drenched culture and adopt such a policy out of disdain for the actions of relatives and peers (not to mention the media!) This is a subtly different from having such rules "imposed" on them by the churches. However, there could be others that are potentially more serious, such as prior experience of rape and/or harrasment/abuse/molestation.

CeeTeeEnn ... good to see you posting again.

The subject of no sex before marriage has come up on a couple threads recently.  While it's certainly not common in Colombia, chances are just about everyone down there has a friend or relative who is a virgin and waiting for marriage.

In my wife's circle of friends/relatives, I know of one in her early 30's ... there's probably more.

I seem to recall Fathertime's wife was not falling all over him at first either ... but she was obviously worth the wait and effort for him ...

[Gato4Astrid]

jvoorhees, here is some advise from a man more than twice your age, first of all cut down your cost of staying in Barranquilla.................

Nice advise Vikingo


You can buy a WORD MAGIC translation software and install it into Netbook/Laptop.   WORD MAGIC translation software can be used offline as well as online which is more useful than using google.  By using Google, you have to be online.


Jason can save hotel cost by buying a netbook, translation software and use the cheap hotel which you advised him

[dennislevy]

vikingo.
 
Thanks for the lead to the hotel....that is one I didn t know.
 
To all
I don t think jvorhees is comg back to P L....A couple of weeks back, I contacted him off P L, we exchanged photos and emails, He was upset and he felt that he got unjustly hammered by some of the posters...
 
I don t blame him.

[vikingo]

That sounds even better, Gato, not having to sign on to the Internet, you can use it in any hotel room or sitting on a bench in a shopping center, I suppose. I'm not up on the latest technology it seems.
So how much is the program and a notebook more or less?
I feel a woman is much more relaxed without a third person listening in, especially at personal details.
Something comes to mind. Latin women don't really like a man who is to timid. I would have kept trying to touch her breasts, I don't thing she would have been to annoyed. If you don't make any moves, she thinks sex it's the last thing on your mind and that doesn't work for her either.
I would have told her that I haven't touched a woman for a very long time and that I'm willing to give up 10 years of my life if she'll let me touch her breasts. How can she refuse.
If the Spanish is not there, those words have to be learned in advance or get out Gato's notebook.
This man didn't get to far with her because of luck of communication. Jamie's translator comes handy to discuss serious compatibility issues, but if you want to make out you need to be prepared with some very nice and convincing words, in Spanish. At least learn the most common words for lovers, like mi corazón, mi vida, mi muñeca and finish every second or third sentence with one of those, just like the Spanish do who are considered worlds best lovers, damn them. And always finish your mail with TQM or 'te quiero mucho'.
 

[Gato4Astrid]

That sounds even better, Gato, not having to sign on to the Internet, you can use it in any hotel room or sitting on a bench in a shopping center, I suppose. I'm not up on the latest technology it seems.
So how much is the program and a notebook more or less?
I feel a woman is much more relaxed without a third person listening in, especially at personal details.
Something comes to mind. Latin women don't really like a man who is to timid. I would have kept trying to touch her breasts, I don't thing she would have been to annoyed. If you don't make any moves, she thinks sex it's the last thing on your mind and that doesn't work for her either.
I would have told her that I haven't touched a woman for a very long time and that I'm willing to give up 10 years of my life if she'll let me touch her breasts. How can she refuse.
If the Spanish is not there, those words have to be learned in advance or get out Gato's notebook.
This man didn't get to far with her because of luck of communication. Jamie's translator comes handy to discuss serious compatibility issues, but if you want to make out you need to be prepared with some very nice and convincing words, in Spanish. At least learn the most common words for lovers, like mi corazón, mi vida, mi muñeca and finish every second or third sentence with one of those, just like the Spanish do who are considered worlds best lovers, damn them. And always finish your mail with TQM or 'te quiero mucho'.

I do not remember how much I bought it for, but I checked with google for link.


 It is: http://wordmagicsoft.com/index.shtml


I have never believed in using 3rd person anyway!  You cannot rely on the 3rd person all the time, because the two need to learn each other. 

[JWR]

My friend Kenneth also got disgusted with the attitude here, and also hit the road.  Lot's of BS about lady boys, etc.  This board is not for the faint hearted sometimes.......
 
 

That sounds even better, Gato, not having to sign on to the Internet, you can use it in any hotel room or sitting on a bench in a shopping center, I suppose. I'm not up on the latest technology it seems.
So how much is the program and a notebook more or less?
I feel a woman is much more relaxed without a third person listening in, especially at personal details.
Something comes to mind. Latin women don't really like a man who is to timid. I would have kept trying to touch her breasts, I don't thing she would have been to annoyed. If you don't make any moves, she thinks sex it's the last thing on your mind and that doesn't work for her either.
I would have told her that I haven't touched a woman for a very long time and that I'm willing to give up 10 years of my life if she'll let me touch her breasts. How can she refuse.
If the Spanish is not there, those words have to be learned in advance or get out Gato's notebook.
This man didn't get to far with her because of luck of communication. Jamie's translator comes handy to discuss serious compatibility issues, but if you want to make out you need to be prepared with some very nice and convincing words, in Spanish. At least learn the most common words for lovers, like mi corazón, mi vida, mi muñeca and finish every second or third sentence with one of those, just like the Spanish do who are considered worlds best lovers, damn them. And always finish your mail with TQM or 'te quiero mucho'.

[whitey]

I just re-read this thread and thought 95% of it was respectful and well intentioned.  It's not easy to hear "tough love". 

Anyway, some of the best lessons are learned the hard way, and you rarely get everything right the first time.  I personally think that I gained a lot of great information and avoided many mistakes on this board and others by listening to those who came before me.

[vikingo]

Right on, Whitey. Some day the man will realize that we meant well. I only whish I had known about this board long ago, just stumbled across it very recently. I could have saved myself some grief, not to mention serious money.
I have an opinion about posters though, some men have a somewhat callous attitude about the women most of us adore, maybe due to bad experiences which is understandable and find it amusing
when a man didn't get laid immediately.
Most latin women demand respect and don't want to be treated like a prepago if they hardly know you. Jvoorhees went a little overboard about showing her respect, he could have been just a little more forceful, because she obviously liked him, but that is the way he was raised, to be very respectfull and some day some woman will adore and love him for the way he is. To many gringos have the reputation here in Colombia to go for the crotch a few hours after the met the girl. Might work with women you meet in disco's and bar's, but there are decent women in this country as well who would be offended. Lets face it, they want it just as badly as we do, but their culture and upbringing dictates to worry about the reputation and what the man things of her afterwards; that maybe she is just a little to easy.

[ceeangelo]

wow, i enjoyed reading that story! you were very honest and gave great insight into the subtleties like your thoughts, etc. Have you ever read the book the Art of Seduction? If not, pick it up! Your woman is obviously a coquette.... I read every line, feeling your anxiety along with you, just waiting to hear how good the goods were, but Im still waiting! Hmmmm, overall, if it made you feel alive and envigorated, I say it was a bitter sweet success.... I mean, you couldve gone down there and freaked 20 girls, but to feel the little subtle feelings of contentment, loved, kinda like a junior high love when you first start kissing and making out with girls......She shoudve given you some whatchamacallit tho! Thats a serious red flag, esp on your second cross country trip to see her and spend money on her and family freely...... cool story tho

[mrlasvegas]

Jv,

My sweetie is Asian so maybe my viewpoint is completely wrong....but I'm gonna give my opinion anyways.

You are a walking ATM....

Z

I agree completely. Taking the family out once in awhile is fine. But you bought everything but the kitchen sink. And were grateful when a moment passed that you were not hit up for money. Not good. Be firm in your expectations of her or cut her loose. JMHO

[Dan]

I agree completely. Taking the family out once in awhile is fine. But you bought everything but the kitchen sink. And were grateful when a moment passed that you were not hit up for money. Not good. Be firm in your expectations of her or cut her loose. JMHO

Mr. LV,

You seem to be pretty knowledgeable - how about filling us in a bit more on your background and experience with an Introductory post?

- Dan

[mrlasvegas]

Mr. LV,

You seem to be pretty knowledgeable - how about filling us in a bit more on your background and experience with an Introductory post?

- Dan

One of these days. Working 80+ hour weeks now. Will try in a few days.

[aconcepts]

"Got hammered" funny... reminds me of the Dylan biography I was watching by Scorsassi - (preparing for the Dylan concert here in Costa Rica May5), where Peter Paul and Mary come out singing "If I had a hammer i'd hammer in the morning, i'd hammer in the evening, all over this land!" jajajajajaja. Now as far as tough love goes I have given out straight frank tough love advice without the sprinkles or icing and what - relegated to the flame room with you yong man1 No soup for you!


Soup Nazis! Hayyyaayyyaayyy