Love Continues in Barranquilla

[jvoorhees]

I recently returned from my second trip in Colombia.  After leaving Colombia, I wanted to return as soon as possible to see my novia again.  It tooks 5 weeks, but I was able to get more days with my love.  I hope everyone who followed my first post will enjoy the ups and downs of this post.  I hope newbies will learn from my mistakes, learn from my successes, and most of all become inspired to take a trip down themselves.

Pre-trip
I returned home to the States from my first trip to find a phone message from my new novia waiting for me.  She talked fast and it took me a whole day of listening to it over and over to understand what she was saying.  I was only able to understand and translate about 60% of it.  It seemed like it was good, but I wasn't sure.  This started a 5 week roller coaster of emotions.

I booked my return trip within two days.  I decided to stay at Jamie's agency again because I was so happy with the service.  And nothing made me happier than the sound of excitement in her voice when I told her that I was returning in a few weeks to hold her in my arms again.

The first couple days we exchanged a few emails.  But I quickly discovered that I made one huge mistake.  I was so focused while in Colombia on just enjoying my time with her and trying to get to know her that I didn't clarify any communication specifics while we were apart.  I had no idea how frequent she wanted to communicate or by what methods. So I followed her lead so that I didn't seem either uninterested or too eager.  But I quickly realized that I was not getting the communication from her that I needed. 

Some days I would get 2 or 3 emails from her.  Then I would go 5 days without hearing a word.  Furthmore, I would write long emails with 4 or 5 paragraphs and usually get a 3 or 4 sentence reply.  I would ask her several questions about different things in my emails and usually would only get a response to one or two of them.  This started the fear growing in the back of my mind that she really didn't have interest in me.  All the while, I had friends and family whispering in my ear about Colombian women using American men for money or green cards.  It was really hard not having much support. 

I worked very hard to stay positive in my emails and to everyone I spoke to, but inside I was a mess.  I had only spent 9 days with her but I had already fallen in love.  And I had watched quietly several important qualities for a good wife.  I had already invested so much time, money, and emotions.  So I continued despite my fears.  And did not let on to anyone that I had them.

After several days of not getting any communication from her, I broke down and finally created a facebook page.  I knew that she had one and thought maybe it would be easier to communicate through that then email.  It was a huge mistake.  I had no friends and one picture of her and I together.  After a few days, she accepted me as a friend.  I was also shocked that I was instantly getting friend requests by people I knew.  I had told no one that I created an account.  And did not plan on telling anyone.  But Facebook informed them and they friended me as well.  Within a day I had 10 friends.  My novia noticed this and sent me a very concerned private message basically stating that "She was not stupid and can tell my facebook account was new.  What is going on?"

I was terrified.  I had pissed her off and I didn't know how or why.  So I replied with the truth that I was new to facebook, didn't know how to use it, and asked her to bear with me as I learn it.  I didn't not get a response from her for another 5 days.  It ate me up inside.  I was convinced the relationship was over before it had a chance to start.  I checked my email every 10 minutes, hoping get a reply.  I sent her 1 email every two days just saying sweet things and not mentioning facebook treating it as if it was resolved.  I finally got a nice response back on facebook and replies to my emails.  It seems she had accepted my response and moved on.  I was so relieved.

The days went on and we pass more emails back and forth.  I stayed away from facebook because frankly I was now scared of it and didn't want to stir up any more issues.  But I would look at her account every one and a while to see photos of her cause I missed her so much.  After a few weeks, I noticed something.  There were no photos or mention of me anywhere on her page.  I saw several photos of her that were taken on outings with me.  But none with me in it.  This got me worrying again that she had no interest in me.

Then, I got a email from her that she had been mugged.  I had a hard time translating it but it sounded like her rent money was stolen and she was roughed up a little.  I felt really bad.  I instantly sent a couple emails back asking if she was alright and assuring her of my feelings for her.  She replied saying she was alright, just hungry.  I was happy that she did not directly ask me for money.  But there was a knot in my gut thinking that maybe she was subtly asking for money hoping that I would offer it up.  I did not.  I kept my emails talking about her safety.  That I worried about her.  And that I cared about her.

I then stopped hearing from her.  I would email her once every other day.  I stayed romantic and positive in my emails, but my insides were a mess.  In the last two weeks before I returned to Colombia, I recieved 2 emails.  Both of which were nice, but very short with about 2 sentences.

As I prepared to leave for Colombia again, I was filled with anxiety.  The big fear that I had was that she did not have interest in me.  I think this started on my first trip with the lack of physical intimacy.  We made out several times on my first trip, but I always got the impression that she did not want to go beyond kissing.  So I always kept my hands in neutral locations like her back or side.  After 9 days with her and no sex, I was really worried.  Then my fears and home and pushed and pulled with facebook, lack of emails, etc.  But I got on the plane again anyway.  I felt relief in that if she didn't like me anymore, at least I'd know it soon.

Day 1
I took the same flight back to Colombia and arrived shortly before dinner time.  I was so happy to see my previous translator pick me up at the airport.  My novia was not there as she had to work.  I did know this from her last email so I wasn't too worried.  I was able to have a good conversation with my translator about the last month and my fears.
 
One of the things I had noticed while back home was that her online profile on the agency remained on the site until just a day or two before I left.  My translator told me the story about a few days before she had to call my novie because another man had expressed interest in her.  My novia's response was "that is ridiculous.  I have my novio, take down my profile".  Apparently, it is common for girls to assume their profile is removed when they start dating someone.  And forget to ask for it to be taken down.  My heart melted in hearing her response.  I felt a lot better and could wait to see her.

She was going to come over in 4 hour after work, but that plan changed before I got to the agency.  She decided to sneak out on a break to see me for minutes.I was in my room unpacking when she arrived.  I opened my door and she was standing before me.  It was simply heaven to see her again.  She was so amazingly beautiful.  And then she called out at the top of her lungs "Mi Amor" and ran into my arms, almost knocking me down.  It was one of the greatest moments of my life.  I haven't felt so loved in many years.  We started kissing intensely.  The passion in her kissing and touch felt deeper and stronger than before.  From what my translator said, everyone in the house could feel it.

We had just a few minutes together before she had to go back to work.  She told me the plan for my trip.  We were going to Santa Marta in the morning to see her cousin and two younger sisters.  We would spend the night there.  And come back the next day.  The day after, we would go to a Spa together.  She then left for work.

When she was done with work, we went to dinner.  It was so nice to be with her again.  We had a pleasant conversation and a great restaurant.  And got to meet several of her friends working there.  When we came back, my translator left and I took her into my room to give her a present.  I gave her a heart shaped locket with a photo of her and I each as children in it.  She very happy and touched deeply.  We said sweet things for a while then begant to kiss.  As we kissed, I kept feeling the passion build within her like a fire with a wind blowing on it.  As I breathed deeper and held her closer, she did the same.  She took my hand and placed it on her chest below her neck and above her strapless shirt.  Between the plans to spend the night together tomorrow, the passion in her kissing, and her placing my hand there, I decided to take things to the next level.

I slowly moved my hands down onto her chest.  She seemed happy for a moment, but then she moved my hand away.  She said it was too soon.  We chatted for a while more, then she said she needed to go home.

That first night was very hard.  I got about 2 hours of sleep filled with worry.  I was so confused how she could seem to be so happy with me.  And her kisses filled with so much passion.  Yet she did not want to go beyond kissing with me.  Did not want to have sex with me.  And did not want to spend the night with me when we will be spending the night together the next day.  I felt utterly rejected.  I was immensely hurt.  I came to the realization that she liked me, but was not ready for this relationship.

Day 2
The next day, my translator and I left the agency early to pick up my novia and drive to Santa Marta as planned.  I had reserved a cab for the whole day so that we could get there and not have to worry about flagging a cab all day.  I was upset, and on edge.  I was still madly in love with my novia, but convinced that our relationship had two more days in its life.  The drive to Santa Marta took a long time.  It was probably a little more than an hour, but seem longer.  I discovered that you might need your Passport if you leave the city.  The police randomly stop cars.  Luckily, we didn't get stopped.

The drive we mostly pleasant.  I held my novia close and tried to enjoy every moment.  We had some deep conversations.  Mostly her asking about my ex-wife and my relationship with her.

When we arrived in Santa Marta, we went to a hotel for lunch and swimming with her cousin and sisters.  It was fun hanging out with them and chatting.  They had fun using my camera to take pictures of each other.  We had a few group photos with all of us.  And my novia tried to teach me to dance a little to some music we had playing.  The absolute best we going swimming again with my novia.  The pool was about 4 1/2 feet deep.  Since my novia didn't want to get her hair wet, I took her on my back piggy-back style.  And then just walked around the pool and talked with her.  It was totally amazing.

I soon discovered the unspoken expectations of the gringo boyfriend.  Not only was my paying for my novia and my translator, but also her sisters, her cousin, her cousins boyfriend who showed up later, and the cab driver.  I expected it so I wasn't surprised.  But was still amazed at how quickly that bill adds up.

We spent the rest of the evening at her cousins apartment.  I was tired from lack of sleep and crabby.  My novia suggested I take a nap.  Hoping she wanted to lay with me, I agreed.  Only to find myself alone.  I slept for a few hours.  They cooked dinner at home with me giving them a few bucks for groceries.  That night we went out dancing with her cousin.  The place we went to was small and we were the only ones there, which was perfect for me.  But the music was a little loud and too "cluby" for my taste.  I spent much of the night dancing with my novia.  She is a fantastic dancer and I have no idea what I am doing.  But it was a lot of fun.  And I think she really was happy that I was on the dance floor with her, despite my lack of experience or skill.  Even the bartender was laughing at me.

As we drove home I had no idea what to expect that night.  I was drunk and everyone was laughing at how cheap a drunk I was.  When we got back, I discovered that my novia and I were sleeping together in one room.  She marched me into the room and shut the door.  She took off my shirt.  And then took off my pants.  But then she took my swimsuit and put it on me over my underwear.  She sent a very clear signal that no sex was happening that night.  She then climbed into bed wearing only a t-shirt and underwear.  We did not make and out just went to sleep.  And we slept with the door to the room open.

This confused me further.  I could not understand why she would go out of her way to sleep next to me, but not even fool around a little.  It crushed me.  If it wasn't for the alcohol, I probably wouldn't have slept at all.

Day 3
I awoke is a flurry of emotions.  I felt so hurt and rejected.  Yet it was so wonderful laying next to her.  And she was so beautiful with the morning sunlight shining on her face.  We shut the door when the sun rose and spend another hour or two just holding each other.  It was so tender and wonderful.  But at the same time so confusing and frustrating.

We aunt we there and made arepas for everyone.  We louged around that morning.  It was her cousin's boyfriend's birthday.  So we walked to the shops to pick up some decorations.  I received many eyes and comments walking down the street with my novia and her sisters and cousins.  One guy even said something like "look, they are all beautiful, even the man."  I got a good laugh out of that.

At the store, they bought some decorations while I just held hands with my novia, occassionally giving each other sweet kisses.  I was happy that people hadn't asked me to buy the stuff.  But as we all got hot and thirsty, they looked at me.  They ask me to buy them all a drink, so I did.  They I was asked to buy the cake for the party, so I did.  But I was getting crabby about it and starting to feel like an atm machine.

By the time we got back, the few hours of sleep I had that night too were catching up with me.  Again my novia suggested I nap.  Again, I hoped she was planning on joining me, but I was wrong.  So I slept a few hours.  When I got up, everyone was decorating for the party.  We finished just in time for when he was to arrive, but he didn't show.  So we decided to play the board game Clue which I had brought.  It was very difficult to explain the rules for them.  And when I tried correcting a misunderstanding when we started they accused me a being a cheater.  We played with my novia and her sisters.  My novia wasn't so interested and was more interested in laying on me and snuggling and kissing me.  Her sisters were very obviously and poorly sneak a look at my cards or sheet.  The game was a lot of fun.  For me, the fun came in watching her two sisters try to be sneaky in cheating.  I am not sure if they ever fully understood the game, but we all enjoyed it.

Time marched on and her cousin's boyfriend never came.  We finally ate the cake ourselves and then we left to take the bus back to Barranquilla.  The bus ride back was magical.  My novia was tired and spent most of the time sleeping my my lap or while I held her.  The rest of the time we kissed and said sweet things to each other.  My stomach was still swirling with fear.  After the night together, I was really looking forward to her sleeping with me at the agency.

When we got to Barranquilla, she told me that she was tired and needed to go home.  So I went back to the agency alone.  My stomach my aching the whole cab ride home.  My novia had a work meeting until noon the next day.  So I gave my translator the morning off as a thank you to being so good and staying in Santa Marta with us.  I told her to arrive a little before my novia.

That night, I had a hard time falling asleep.  I awoke in the middle of the night with a terrible pain in my stomach.  I instantly knew it wasn't my nerves.  I spent the rest of the night on the toilet with exposive bowels.  I am not sure how I caught it.  I suspect maybe I got a little water in my mouth by accident in the shower.

Day 4
I finally got and going the next day.  My stomach was feeling better.  I must have had better dreams but I was feeling less anxious about my novia.  Maybe I was just focuses on the stomach bug I caught.  I got showered and ready.  I wasn't sure what time either would be there.  So I sat around waiting.  As time went on, I got hungry and thirsty.  But I hadn't been to the grocery store and had nothing to drink or eat.  By the late morning, I was feeling so bad, I laid down.  After a 20 minutes or so, I was surprised when my novia arrived.  It was wonderful to see her again.  She always brings smile to my face and makes me feel so wonderful.

I told them that my stomach hurt and I was starving and thristy.  My novia quickly gave me some crackers she had in my purse and got me some water.  I started to feel a lot better.

At this point in the trip, I had spent a lot more money that I had anticipated.  I had 40,000 pesos left.  Not even enough to get back to the airport.  So we first walked to an atm nearby.  I tried using it, but it kept giving me a strange error.

We then went to the Spa my novia had planned to take me to.  I had never been to a spa before, so I didn't know what to expect.  We got a couples massage package.  They walked us to the back to a beautiful room with two massage table, a jacuzzi, and rose pedals everywhere.  They motioned for us to undress together, but my novia clarified and went in by herself.  She came out wear a very small disposable bikini.  I then went in and changed down to a disposable underwear/shorts they gave me.  We each laid on the massage tables.  And two ladies gave us the full massage treatment with oil, scrub with rocks, and placed hot rocks on us while we rested.  My novia and I held hand when we could.  And the whole time I kept my eyes fixed on her eyes.  Her eyes are so beautiful, I could get lost in them for hours.

When we were done, they helped us to the jacuzzi where we each had an ice cream treat and a glass of champaign.  We ate our food with the occassional spoonful to the other.  When we were done, we laid down in the water facing each other.  I placed my legs around her and she placed hers over mine.  We sat up embraced.  We held each other, kissing, and rubbing each others backs.  My this time I was convinced that she was not interested in going any further.  So I worked hard to keep my hands in neutral locations.  I kept my hands abover her waistline and on her back.  And I kept our hips far enough apart so that she could not feel how excited I was.

We sat for a while, then laid down again.  Our legs stayed intertwined.  I rubbed her legs on her knees, alternating on the inside and outside.  As I moved on the inside, I felt her legs spread a little wider each time.  But I continued to not make moves.  We sat up and held each other again.  My novia then moved her hips in closer to mine so that we could feel each other through our clothes.  A rush of heat burst through my body and I didn't know what to think.  Was it an accident?  Or did she deliberately make her move on me?

Before I could figure it out, she gave me her answer.  She was very passionately kissing and rubbing against me.  We enjoyed each others touch and we both swept away in the moment of passion.  My hands her still scared and hesitant.  But when they moved too slow, she grabbed them with her hands and placed them where she wanted.  We did not have sex in the jacuzzi.  But we we quite intimate, passionate, and felt each others happiness.

When I time was up, we went into the changing room together this time.  Yet she was still nervous.  I got dressed.  But when it was her time to take off her bikini, she motioned for me to leave the room.  So I did.  I was very confused as to why she would not want me to see her naked body after we had been so intimate just moments earlier.

When we left, we search for another ATM.  We found a branch that was open and I went in to talk with them.  They said that since I had an international Bank account, only a Citibank bank would work for me.  We found one and I finally got some more cash.

My stomach began hurting again.  But they were hungry so we went to dinner.  As they looked over the menu, I rushed to the bathroom.  And went again twice more before the food arrived.  My novia was concerned about me.  So she called a pharmacy and had some stuff delivered.  She gave me a pill to make my stomach better and some medicine to drink.  I was ok until their food arrive.  It looked and smelled amazing.  But the strong oder from it hit me like a ton of bricks.  I tried to hold out through dinner, but my novia knew I could so she asked for a to-go back and we went back to the agency.

They ate while I rested.  The drugs kicked in and I felt better.  She had wanted to go to a movie that night with her sisters.  When I was feeling better, I said we should go.  They came over and we left together to the movie.  It was a great movie and a lot of fun.  As we drove home, she was going to drop me off then go home with her sisters.  But by the time we got to the agency, she changed her mind.  She was worried about me, so they all came in.  Her sisters watched tv while I laid in bed and my novia took care of me.

It was so wonderful  I haven't felt that cared for in many, many years.  I can't remember when.  She was simply amazing.  She made she I took my medicine, had plenty of fluids, and was comfortable laying in bed.  She held me and we said sweet things to each other.  They stayed for another 2 hours.  As I was getting tired, I told her that I needed to sleep and that she should go home.

I had another night with little sleep.  But I was content in feeling her love.  Just awake and on the toilet every hour or so.

Day 5
I awoke shortly before I needed to.  I got dressed and packed.  When my translator arrived, we picked up my novia and headed to the airport.  I held her in my arms the whole ride.  We whispered sweet things to each other.  I sang her a few romantic songs in her ear.  She stayed with me at the airport until I need to go through security.  I spent a long while thinking of something romantic to say to her.  I remembered it all, but burst into tears.  She responded with the most passionate and romantic thing I have ever had a woman say to me.  I have never felt more loved than in that moment.  We kissed goodbye and I left through security.
 
Conclusions
This trip was a roller coaster of emotions for me.  Part of it I think was caused by my own insecurity.  Part of it was caused by a lack of understanding of the Colombian culture.

I think I did several good things before and on this trip.  Mostly, I kept at it.  Despite all of my fears, I kept acting optimistic and kept marching forward.  I also moved very slow with my novia sexually.  I had now spent two trips and a total of 14 days with her and we have not yet had sex.  I have never done that with any other woman in my life.  And I truly believe that my respecting her desires and waiting until she is ready has allowed me to bloom the delicate flower that she is and see truly how beautiful she is.  I also work hard to learn Spanish when I am with her.  I each thing I say is another way of telling her how wonderful she is.  She really liked when I say romantic things to her.  Also, it was really good I came back to Colombia so soon.  I think it really gave this relationship the chance to grow before the distance set in.

I also made several mistakes.  First off, I should have asked her how often she is able to communicate.  It turns out that she does not have a computer or internet access.  So she sometimes only gets a computer once a week for a few minutes.  And that is why she has infrequent short emails.  Clarifying that would have saved me a lot of stress.  I also should have never created a Facebook account.  I hate Facebook.  And it only caused me trouble.  I also should have stayed for more days.  I did not get enough time with her.

I have been back a few days now.  I already have my third trip booked over Christmas.  I am continuing to use Jamie's agency because the service is just top notch.  I have signed her up for English lessons.  She is very happy and excited to learn English.  It will help us better communicate.  And it will give as a weekly phone call to talk to each other with a translator.  I think this will help keep the bond while we are apart.

I also have signed up for dancing lessons.  I am not telling her about it.  I want to surprise her by taking her dancing on my next trip and then actually know what I am doing.  I can't wait.

[z_k_g]

Jv,

My sweetie is Asian so maybe my viewpoint is completely wrong....but I'm gonna give my opinion anyways.

You are a walking ATM....

Z

[dennislevy]

Jvorhees
 
I ve read LITERALLY thosuands of posts on gringos chat boards  and havent been this moved or this impressed by a man s honesty in a very long time. I commend you for your courage in writing it as you did.
 
I hope nobody squawks that it s too personal.....or there s too much detail, because its clear that you wrote it from your heart. 
 
Your story is instructive for all of us, for the vets and for the newbies. I think in this post you pretty much touched on all of the cultural themes, that we endlessly dissect...
 
You certainly are right 5 days wasnt enough for a second trip.
 
It s clear that are entranced by the girl.  You ve said you were 34....with 4 young kids, and Im assuming that this is Cinderella from your trip report in September...How old is Cinderella?
 
A generalization that the younger a Colombian woman is....the more time you will spend with her accompanied by her family and friends.  If a gringo has to spend extra money on a young girl , he is best off  by taking her family members out, it s an expectation and definitely in costeña culture, and you mentioned that in your September trip report.   
 
But, a goal for the next trip may be that you spend more time with her alone and less time with her friends and cousin(s).
 
I ve never paid for English lessons for a woman, becase I live in COUNTRY and I speak Spanish and I can teach a woman how to speak English... But, again a lot of gringos pay for lessons, just make sure you re paying whoever (Jamie?)directly.
 
That you were not lovers....well it didn t happen and if she s young and you ve onlly spent parts of 14 days together.....that would easily make sense.
 
YOU mentioned you have met the mom and that she was reserved during your first visit. Did you not meet her again, this trip?..... I would advise you to consider it as a MUST goal to meet her on your next trip. if youre serious aobut the girl, you re going to have to connect more with the mom and make her see that you are a good man and a legitimate prospect for her daughter. 
 
And you have to decide what the nature of your committment is.
 
What are you willing to do? 
What are you willing to risk? 
Are you looking for a stepmother for the 4 kids? Again how old is Cinderella?
Would you consider a proposal and an engagement ring in December?....
And the risk that you might be rebuffed?   
 
I am not suggesting that you SHOULD do it. But, if you re willing to do that, then let me suggest that you don t spend a lot of money on a ring.  If she accepts it, she doesn t come from money and she should be appreciative of anything that you might give her.....that s probably right out of Jamie s book of advice.
 
Everyone s definition of what is a lot of money is different, but it certainly doesn t have to be a diamond..maybe just a very nice silver ring or something semi precious.
 
If the relationship doesnt work, and you may not get the ring back......you have to be able to say to yourself, OK I took a shot.....I was willing to spend the money, I knew there was a risk, Im glad I tried and
 
not....she took me for an expensive ring.
 
The other question you may want to ask myself is how much time are you willing to invest in this girl? 
 
How many trips can you afford in terms of time and money to see her?
 
I hoe that the BQ vets weigh in with some thoghtfull comments.
 
Thank you VERY much for posting this.....
 
Dennis
 
 
 
 
 
 
   
 
       

[Zon]

Hola JV - good for you.

I did not read your first post, but I enjoyed this one.  Your honesty and candor is very disarming.  Much of what you wrote and how you felt reminded me of how I felt with my first couple of relationships with foreign women.  I have good experience with meeting and flirting and generally carousing ... I am less experienced with building a meaningful relationship.   (If current trends continue, maybe you can aides me one day

A couple of points:

1, Do not FEAR loss.   There are TONS of great women that would be happy to spend time with you.  Your girl already knows this, you, evidentally, do not.
2, Do not be AFRAID to act.  Things like using Facebook, and other missteps (how do you know it was actually a misstep?).  You have to accept new rules of engagement.  Be a man, in control.  Do not appear weak, or needy.  That is a turnoff, and feeds into a stereotype that SOME gringos are easy to manipulate - stooges.
3, The word novia has implications, amiga would keep HER wanting to win your interest (others might have an opposing view).   The term "mi amor" does not carry the weight that it may suggest, so just be careful. I would not give so much, so fast.
4, Communication: I have not met a Colombian woman yet that could stir the heart with her writting.  They can chat endlessly on line about virtually nothing, however:) The telephone was even worse for me before I could understand Spanish (hell, it is still bad for me! ) text messages work best using SKYPE, but you can not receive.

Anyway ... best of luck!  I hope you get what you are looking for.

[fathertime]

Ha JVorhees!  I've had that diarrhea too and it is EXPLOSIVE!  What a nightmare when you are trying to get close to a beautiful woman!


 


It appears you are having fun between the times you are crushed by this woman!  I suppose you are kinda new to Colombia but this is a very good learning process if it winds up fizzling. 


There are some things that you are writing that I would find a bit appalling, like all these friends/sisters that you are paying for, that is really too much.   Her annoyance and disrespectful assumptions about you starting a facebook page would IRK me a bit also, watch if that becomes a pattern.   After you start getting your bearings a little better you will have to be a little more take charge, but hey I suspect you are getting your feet wet.  Now down the line DO NOT be afraid to cut bait or see other ladies...this lady sounds like a firecracker and it appears you are sexually ready to explode all over her...I've been there.   


THis trip report was really good and detailed.  DON"T worry about things too much, it is all in fun and there are always other beautiful gals if this one doesn't work out..You are learning a lot about how things can work with these babes. 


Fathertime! 

[JWR]

JV.
Thanks for a very honest post.  It was a good read.
 
The 1st thing I think you have to ask yourself is, "have you gone over the edge"??.  Going over the edge involves getting so "into her" that you lose all reason.  Trust me, I've gone over the edge before, and I think you are "over the edge" right now"
 
Once you've gone over the edge, you just can't see straight anymore, and if you truly admit this to yourself, then you will evaluate all your own decisions and behaviors with suspicion.  You are at a moment of truth right now in that what you do now will determine if your life self destructs as you go forward with this girl.
 
I don't know what has happened to you with American women, or how you got into a weakened state of mind when dealing with girls, but you need to acknowledge this.  You are not in control, and that is a very dangerous state to be in while dating in Colombia.  Recently I was in BQ for 4 months and during that time, I realized that I wasn't making good decisions, because I was also still weakened from my divorce from my Colombiana.  Once I realized this, I got the quickest ticket out of Colombia that I could book.  Looking back, this was the right call, and alot of the things I did back then were not smart at all.
 
I also had fallen in love with a pretty BQ girl from Jamie's, and had experienced some of the exact same circumstances that you were in.  The napping alone, the food poisoning, the family and friends jumping in without my approval or any discussion.  The buying of expensive flowers for a funeral of a friend.  Small pressures that were hard to resist in my weakened state.
 
I could go on and on, and in your state of mind, you most likely aren't going to hear any of this.  I understand.  I've been there in your place.
 
So I'm going to make this very simple, because you are intoxicated.
 
She's selfish, she's not that into you, she's too immature, and you are cruisin for a bruisin.
 
It's been a fun ride but:
 
Walk away now before you really get deeper into this mess.  Don't throw good money after bad.
 
This should just turn into a memory that you have in the past, as you were on your way to your perfect match.
 
You deserve better, and you can find it.

[Gato4Astrid]

Jason Voorhees


I enjoyed reading your 2 trips.  Very honest posting.  You didn't do anything wrong.  You feel for her and it is not a crime.


If I were you, I wouldn't be happy to go all the way to Santa Marta to meet her cousin, because you flew all the way to Colombia to spend time, getting to know to your girlfriend.  She should be more thoughtful to you.  If my girlfriend flies all the way to England just for 5 days, I wouldn't go to other places to meet my cousin.  I would want to spend time with her.  Cousins can wait !!


I hope things work out for you

[dennislevy]

I read both of jvorhees trip reports,


JWR respecfully you are dumping the baggage of your divorce with the colombiana in this thread....


I don t see ANYTHING to suggest that jvorhees girl is immature or selfish, or disrespectful or not that into him.

What is probably true is that she is young.

Gato  pointed out that to take him to Santa Marta from where? Baranquilla, Soledad?  to meet her cousin after he came  from the US to meet her.....was a bit off.

Look at it another way. She wanted the cousin s opinion of jvorhees.  Cinderella and  the cousin may be very close friends and confidants. If I read this right.... on  THIS trip, the mother wasn t in the picture, I would not be surprised if the mom DIDN T know that her daughter s gringo was in Colombia....and with her daughter!!!

So Cinderella arranged to have some privacy in Santa Marta., she s NOT in an agency bedroom, but they had a room to themselves, the girl can decide if she s ready for sexual intimacy and have privacy away from her mom.

That s a very plausible explanation

As for paying for everybody., That s normal. jvorhees was on the hook for himself and his girl, the translator and the cab driver....and the sisters...... What he could have done is tell his translator to tell the cousin s boyfriend that HE was on the hook for the cousin. That s the  cloest thing to a mistake that jvorhees made in that outing.


If jvorhees is in really in love with her, he s going to do what he s going to do.

And yes, he s not quite in control...


That s the whole point of falling in love!!!!!








 

[whitey]

I showed my wife (barranquillera) this thread ... as far as I know it's the first one she's read, but I leave my browser on all the time so who knows ... her comment ...
 
 "Pobrecita la papaya ..."
 
 Jvoorheeves:
 
 First of all, I want to thank you and commend you for such a detailed and intimate post ... you seem like a decent guy.  I just want to make a few points ... take them for what they are worth ...
 
 1) You have to man up a little.  In Colombia, Latin America, really most of the world except for the industrialized countries, a man is still a man.  Because of the way we have been socialized (feminized and marginalized) here in North America, many of us have to re-learn what that means.  It may take a couple trips, but you should be able by now to have a sense of your value as a man who is going to provide for his woman and family.  If you are reading this forum, you should also have some idea of how to behave as a gentleman without being taken advantage of (dando papaya). This is not the only beautiful and affectionate woman that will be interested in you ... you found her on your first trip ... you could potentially meet many more.
 
 I'm not saying to dump her (yet), but remember that in Dubya's words, you are "The Decider".  Don't let her make the decisions for you, don't let her invite whoever she wants on your dime without your prior knowledge and consent (if that's what's happening).  Was the spa your idea or hers?  I took my wife to a spa like that after we had known each other for over two years (my idea).  Cost was around $300.000 for the both of us.  This is about half the monthly wage for many people in Colombia, IF they are lucky enough to have a job.  If this was her idea, it doesn't seem very respectful to me ... my wife would never had asked me for something like that.  If that's not what happened, great ... maybe someone else reading can benefit from the advice.
 
 You can probably tell from my posts, and Dennis can tell you from meeting me in person that I'm nowhere close to a macho man ... I'm 135lbs of twisted steel and sex appeal ... haha.  But, I learned pretty quickly, within a couple trips and from reading extensively, that Colombia is upside-down world compared to North America and yes ... believe it or not ... we are valued the way we used to be 50 years ago. 
 
 I'm not suggesting you be an a-hole ... continue to be a gentleman, just tap into your instincts and forget the feminist doctrines that have been crammed down your throat all your life.
 
 Crap, this was supposed to be short and I've already written half a chapter on the first point!
 
 2) Use your time between trips to ADVANCE your relationship.  Talk to your novia on Skype or MSN for an hour or so EVERY day or almost every day.  Colombianas need attention.  Also, you need to use this time to build your relationship ... your relationship is not in a suspended state waiting for your next trip.  Use this time to find out everything you can about her (and her you), practice Spanish and English together, etc.
 
 3) It's too soon to be paying for English lessons.  Wait until you put a ring on her finger and have serious plans and a timeline for her to come to the US.
 
 4) One of the few (maybe only) exceptions I would make to sending money or spending more that $50-$100 for gifts in the early part of a COMMITTED relationship is to facilitate the communication that is necessary to maintain and advance your relationship "en la distancia".  If she can't afford a computer and internet service, buy her a $200 netbook and pay the $25/month internet service.
 
 Good luck ... I sincerely wish you the best ...

[dennislevy]

I m here to tell everyone that Whitey indeed is 135 pounds of twisted steel and sex appeal...He is mild mannered, self effacing, but behind those glasses is the eye of the tiger..a man of iron who takes crap from nobody!!!!
 
Hey, DW, how s that for giving you some publicity!!! jerjejejeje
 
.

[JWR]

Maybe this is a Costena thing...dumping all the expenses on the gringo at a time that it would be too embarrassing to say no...  At a time that it would make the guy look cheap.  I saw some of this in BQ when I was there, and I thought it stunk.
 
That is just not the way to treat a guy that has already spent alot of money travelling to Colombia to meet a girl.  I dated  nice girls in the Cali region before I met my ex-wife and they looked out for me, and wouldn't allow me to get taken advantage of.  I was a guest in their country and they watched out for me. There was none of this "pile on" the gringo mentality, and I've been around alot of Colombians for over 12 years now.  Many many parties, christmas, birthday, New Years, and the expenses were never dumped on me.  I contributed like everybody else, but not more.  Maybe I was just lucky with family and people that I associated with down there, and that is not the norm, but it just didn't happen to me before BQ.
 
I think it really depends on what class of people you are hanging with, and what you will allow.  If she's already showing a lack of care towards your finances, then this is a small window into your future in the US. 
 
If she was conservative, then she wouldn't be staying in the same room as you.  Staying in the same room and teasing you......  She's not that into you.
 
 

[fathertime]

Maybe this is a Costena thing...dumping all the expenses on the gringo at a time that it would be too embarrassing to say no...  At a time that it would make the guy look cheap.  I saw some of this in BQ when I was there, and I thought it stunk.
 
That is just not the way to treat a guy that has already spent alot of money travelling to Colombia to meet a girl.  I dated  nice girls in the Cali region before I met my ex-wife and they looked out for me, and wouldn't allow me to get taken advantage of.  I was a guest in their country and they watched out for me. There was none of this "pile on" the gringo mentality, and I've been around alot of Colombians for over 12 years now.  Many many parties, christmas, birthday, New Years, and the expenses were never dumped on me.  I contributed like everybody else, but not more.  Maybe I was just lucky with family and people that I associated with down there, and that is not the norm, but it just didn't happen to me before BQ.
 
 

I haven't been hit with an 'expense dump' yet...in over 3 years with my Barranquillian wife.  I think that is typical of when a person has actually found wife material.   

BTW: Your previous post on this thread was very well done. 


Fathertime! 

[Researcher]

   Jvoorhees, great post. You sound like a nice guy and I hope things work out for you. 

  I gotta tell you that the money issue doesn't bother me as much as the lack of attention she is giving you. For a Colombiana I'd say she isn't being sincere with her affection.You seem to be putting up with too much as well. It sounds like you are crazy about this woman and are trying to win her over by tolerating alot of stuff.

  Let me give you some advice from years of doing this. Here is the bottom line: If you aren't getting what you want out of the relationship then move on. No matter how much you care about her or no matter how much you are attracted to her: move on. There are too many fish in the sea to put up with less than what you are looking for.If she isn't giving you alot of attention and returning the feelings you have for her then you are vulnerable to be taken advantage of.When some women see you are crazy for them and willing to do what it takes to win them over they willl play that to the max.It's like a shark that smells blood. They will feed on you.


          Researcher

[dennislevy]

He hasnt mentioned how old the girl is.
 
girls and women  all have different sexualities. it sounds as if she advanced step by step.....with him.  If she s in her early 20s and she saw him for parts of 9 days and then for 5 days, maybe she wasnt ready for sex.
 
The first night they were alone, he was drunk, you cant blame her for that!
 
As much as we may want, not everything happens on a guy s timetable.....

[z_k_g]

It's been a fun ride but:
 
Walk away now before you really get deeper into this mess.  Don't throw good money after bad.
 
This should just turn into a memory that you have in the past, as you were on your way to your perfect match.
 
You deserve better, and you can find it.

JWR,

Are we the only ones that can see this?

Great advice someone needs to slap him hard and wake him up from his trip to Disneyland!

Zulu

[John W]

jvoorhees-
 
Have you discussed what has been going on with your girlfriend with Jaime and your translator?  If not, I think you should.

[Researcher]

JWR,

Are we the only ones that can see this?

Great advice someone needs to slap him hard and wake him up from his trip to Disneyland!

Zulu

     Hey Zulu, I've seen this over and over.Some guys you can reach but others are so love struck they stay hell bent on going down with the ship.All you can do is warn them and hope at some point what you have said has creeped into their subconscience and things start to dawn on them when the sh!te hits the fan.

       Researcher

[z_k_g]

  Let me give you some advice from years of doing this. Here is the bottom line: If you aren't getting what you want out of the relationship then move on. No matter how much you care about her or no matter how much you are attracted to her: move on.There are too many fish in the sea to put up with less than what you are looking for.If she isn't giving you alot of attention and returning the feelings you have for her then you are vulnerable to be taken advantage of.When some women see you are crazy for them and willing to do what it takes to win them over they willl play that to the max.It's like a shark that smells blood. They will feed on you.


          Researcher

R,

Best advice yet on this thread.

Jvorhees you are in love with love! 

Your novia (can we call her that) sounds like she is young, hot and gorgeous and if she was in the states, way way out of your league (mentally).  So, now in Colombia, you have your dream babe, the ultimate arm candy, and your perspective is completely f*cked.

She is not that into you, she is into your money.  This circumstance may change, but to what end?  Will she be more conservative with your bank account once you are committed, engaged, married with kids?

If any babe treated me like you are being treated, no matter how young, I would dump her quick.  All the money and time you have spent?  Let it go. 

On your next trip, meet more women, learn the culture, read P-L archives.

But....Dude, cut bait now!  There are a thousand pieces of "ultimate arm candy" in Colombia. 

Pick another model, maybe a snow white next time!

Zulu

[z_k_g]

     Hey Zulu, I've seen this over and over.Some guys you can reach but others are so love struck they stay hell bent on going down with the ship.All you can do is warn them and hope at some point what you have said has creeped into their subconscience and things start to dawn on them when the sh!te hits the fan.

       Researcher

Researcher,

Same here, in the states, the ultimate arm candy babes are never available to "regular" mugs, they go for for the pro athletes or the CEO's and we get to watch them in the movies or on TV.

When you get off the plane in Colombia (or Asia) you suddenly are in hot babe Disneyland and you lose your common sense.  Then when one of these babes shows you any type of interest you are hooked (and your wallet is open for withdrawals).

A thorough reading of P-L and the Archives BEFORE YOUR TRIP will help to alleviate some of this brain freeze and prepare you for the impending hot babe overload.

This mind numbing experience cannot be avoided, however and it can be managed with a regular dose of P-L.

Hopefully Jvorhees will take his all of his prescribed dosage and at the Zulu recommended daily intervals!  (Read the archives Jvorhees!!)

Common sense has been proven to cure hot babe brain freeze (stupidity) 9 times out of 10 and a full recover can be expected.

Hot Babe Brain Freeze is seldom fatal, but always very expensive (and sometimes heartbreaking)

Zulu

[dennislevy]

READ his two trip reports..
 
At this point, some of you are just piling on.
 
SHE DIDN T ask him for money, SHE PAID for her own beauty treatment, SHE was affectioante annd loving with him, but for whatever reasons, not ready to have sexual relations with him. And, HE decided to go slow with her.
 
He s inexpereinced in Colombian culture, but he doesnt speak very good Spanish and when he met her, she ddin t speak English. Whiteys point aobut being mor eof a decider is valid, setting the expectations of what he would pay for. It sounds that jvoorhees left the scheduling up to the giirl..it soes t eman that the girl manipulated him. If jvoorhees had thought the spa was too expensive, he would have probably mentioend it.....but what he wrote aobut was how he flet laying on a massage table and looking into the girls eyes adn later thye passion they felt in the pool.
 
Yes, form the two reports, it sounds as if he s in love with the girl.
 
Has anyone considered the fact that maybe SHE also cares deeply about him, but is being cautious, because she doesnt want to get hurt?
 
Matbe she wants him to come back again to see her¿
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

[z_k_g]

READ his two trip reports..
 
At this point, some of you are just piling on.
 
SHE DIDN T ask him for money, SHE PAID for her own beauty treatment, she was affectioante annd loving with him, but for whatever reasons, not ready to have sexual relations with him. And, HE decided to go slow with her.
 
He s inexpereinced in Colombian culture, but he doesnt speak very good Spanish and when he met her, she ddin t speak English.
 
Yes, form the two reports, it sounds as if he s in love with the girl.
 
Has anyone considered the fact that maybe SHE also cares deeply about him, but is being cautious, because she doesnt want to get hurt?

Dennis,

I agree with all of the above, because anything is possible.

She may very well care for him....but based on what you are saying I would also add that she should be a bit more protective of him...guard his wallet and make sure he is not bankrolling people he doesn't even know!

If a woman does not demonstrate that she cares for my wallet then that shows little or no respect for me.  I just do not subscribe to a female considering my generosity as open season for friends and family.

Based on his words....he felt like an ATM himself......this is not something anyone on the forum made up!!

If he had hints of being taken advantage of, then he should have listened to that little voice more carefully and cut bait or addressed her and expressed his concerns. 

Dennis, he is making the universal relationship mistakes that have nothing to do with language or cultural barriers. 

Listen, during initial dating, if your date (man or woman) disrespects you, regardless of the logistical situation (in this case in Colombia) then you should address the issue at that point and correct things, express how you feel about the issue. 

Tell him/her now, don't collect baggage.  It always blows up later and its far worse.

He felt disrespected, used and taken advantage of by this loving hot latina, but the fact is he doesn't want to stop drinking the disneyland kool-aid.  He is not treating her like a real woman, and as I said in my earlier posts, he has Hot Babe Brain Freeze and at this point is not thinking correctly or even logically.

So he said nothing, just let it go, because he doesn't want to lose her.  Big mistake!  He keeps putting up with this and there are many more fish in the sea!!

Bottom line, relationship is a relationship is a relationship and he will have to deal with her like any other woman eventually, warts and all.

Whatever affection and love she seems to feel for him may be genuine and possibly grow into something deeper over time.  But you never get a chance to make a first impression and based on his words she started this one out the wrong way- treating her family and friends and spending his money in a way that he felt uncomfortable.

Also, you say she is being cautious because she doesn't want to get hurt? 

With Sex right? 

Well in that case why is she so cavalier with his WALLET?

Zulu

[jvoorhees]

Thank you all for everyone that has responded to my trip report.  I wrote it to be as in depth and honest as I could to get the best advice from the veterans as I could and help the newbies in their journies as much as I could.  All feedback is greatly appreciated.

To answer some questions that came up:

1. Yes.  My novia is young.  She turned 23 years old in August.

2. My novia is not very close with her mother.  Her mother kicked her out of the house when she was 16 because my novia caught her cheating on her husband (my novia's step dad at the time).  Her mother wouldn't stop the cheating and kicked her out of the house. 

Her mother as now repeated history in late september when she took a new boyfriend on and kicked my novia's 15 year old sisters out of the house.  They are now living with my novia in her apartment.  So my novia has lived on her own since she was 16.

3. My novia is really close to her younger sisters and counsin.  Her cousin lives in Santa Marta and it was her idea of taking me there to meet her cousin.  I really liked the idea of going to Santa Marta.  I enjoy meeting her family.  And it makes me feel like she has true feelings and intensions if she is introducing me to her family.  But at the same time, on the trip I did feel a little bit like an ATM machine.  And I did not like that.

4. The Spa was her idea.  But I liked it.  I had never been to a Spa before and thought it would be a good experience to matter what.  It wasn't too outrageously priced.  And in the end, I had a wonderful time there, so worth every penny.

5. My time between trips has made me feel like I am limbo.  Mainly because my main form of communication is through email and that hasn't been as often or verbose as I would like.  Also, I have been working solid 13 hour days.  The only time that I am not either working or sleeping is when I have my children.  So I unfortunately have not any more time to learn more Spanish.  I have tried several listening to several Podcasts while at work, but I cannot concentrate on work that way.  Between now, and my next trip, I have scheduled dancing lessons.  I really don't have the time, but it is two hours 1 day a week so I am leaving work coming back that day to do it.

6. My finances are challenging.  This adventure has been more expensive than I anticipated.  Mostly because I have a hard time waiting 6 months to go back.  And will have 3 trips within 4 months.  That being said, I have had a big project at work that has allowed me to work overtime.  So I've been averaging 55 hour weeks since the summer.  This extra money has allowed me to travel to Colombia this frequently.  But my overtime will likely end when the project completes in Dec.  So I will not be able to return as quickly.  I don't mind spending extra money on trips, but do not want to go into debt to find a wife.

7. Yes.  As is obvious with my writing, I am madly in love with my novia, Cinderella.  But it is not because she is good looking.  She is very attractive, but that is not what I feel in love with.  I have fallen in love with just talking to her and being with her.  That is what made her stand out from the rest.  We felt so natural together from the moment we met.  We have never had an uncomforable lull in the conversation.  When we don't talk, we simply hold each other and smile, give little kisses.  It is a level of comfortablility that feels like we have know each other for many years.

8. The passion and affection are there, except for sex.  And this is what confuses me so much.  Why would a woman talk, hold hands, and kiss with such passion and affection, yet be relucatant for sex.  I am not used to this.  For many years, I have had the 3 date rule.  The first date, I shake hands or maybe a kiss on the hands.  The second date, I give them a kiss goodnight on the lips.  The third, I expect sex.  If I don't have sex by the third date, I never call them again.  My novia is the first women that I have ever broken this rule for.  And only because everything she says is so perfect for what I am seeking in a wife.  From her attitudes on children, to her interest in movies.  I think she is a perfect match on everything.  But we have yet to have sex.  And I do not understand that.

9. I did seriously consider breaking it off.  When I was rejected my first night on this trip, I wrote out my feelings in a nice long letter.  At that moment, I thought it was over because while she seemed to have some interest, she didn't seem ready.  And I am not willing to wait forever.  That thought changed when we went to the Spa.  The passion was so natural.  I could tell that she was trying to keep herself from being too physical.  But the moment hit us both.  It was truly magical.

10. I am acting too feminine?  I don't know.  I can only be myself.  I am working hard to be strong while I am around her.  And not letting her know any of the turmoil and roller coaster of emotions going on inside me.  I am keeping positive to give our relationship the best chance.  And hope that it continues to progress.

11. I have gotten much good advice from my translator while in Colombia.  She is the only person I have expressed all of my emotions to.  And she has given me much good advice.

12. English lessons.  I wasn't sure when the best time for them was.  I asked my translator and she said that about half the time men get English lessons before an engagement.  She seemed ready.  But mostly, I did it for two reasons.  1. We would be able to communicate better on my next trip.  2. I would have a regular phone call with her that was translated.  It think this will help us connect better between trips.  And at the very least, it will help me not be so neurotic and filled with fear before I get on the plane to return.

Where will this journey take me?  I don't know.  I think she has enough good qualities that she is still worth pursuing.  And I believe that there is genuine deep feelings between us.  That being said, I am ready to cut bait if I need to.  And I will not wait forever.

She gave me enough of what I needed at the end of this last trip to make me want to continue and go back.  But I expect more on this next trip.  I will be there for 8 days.  If she is still not ready to sleep with me in my room.  And still not ready for sex.  I will likely end the relationship.  But I still have hope.  I can only see where the next trip takes us.

 

[Researcher]

   Bottom line: Too many fish in the sea to put up with any crap.

   Just because you are in love with someone doesn't always mean you should be with them.

    Researcher

[Zon]

I am madly in love with my novia, Cinderella.  But it is not because she is good looking.  She is very attractive, but that is not what I feel in love with.  I have fallen in love with just talking to her and being with her.  That is what made her stand out from the rest.  We felt so natural together from the moment we met.  We have never had an uncomforable lull in the conversation.  When we don't talk, we simply hold each other and smile, give little kisses.  It is a level of comfortablility that feels like we have know each other for many years.

8. The passion and affection are there, except for sex.  And this is what confuses me so much

with all due respect ...

I don't want to be disrepectuf to you personally.  I want to talk to you like a football coach.  DUDE!  GET A CLUE.  Reading this reminded me of when Alfalfa was in love with Darla on the Little Rascals!   Go in to the bathroom and repeat your words quoted above. Then, Grab your nut sack and pull as hard as you can.   Then, read it again. Feel the difference? 

There is NO passion or affection without sex - ESPECIALLY FOR A COSTENA (these people are very atune to the biological rythmys of life)  I doubt this delicate flower is making a quilt in the evenings.  And, she is NOT your novia!  She is your amiga, and you better have a handful of em... .

Sorry, it is all intended to be supportive.   

[Gato4Astrid]

For many years, I have had the 3 date rule.  The first date, I shake hands or maybe a kiss on the hands.  The second date, I give them a kiss goodnight on the lips.  The third, I expect sex.  If I don't have sex by the third date, I never call them again.

It is your rules, but it doesn't mean it is also her rules.   Perhaps her rules is to have sex after marriage!