Is economic security the main reason?

[Researcher]

aconcepts - you have made this place a bigger tent.  No small undertaking

      I don't know zon I think the improvement has been from you posting less and reading more.
Keep up the good work.

       Researcher

[opusone]

If Colombian women had the same economic security and education system as American women,  marrying a foreigner would be the last thing on their mind.

[OrlandoGringo]

If Colombian women had the same economic security and education system as American women,  marrying a foreigner would be the last thing on their mind.

I don't know about the educational thing.  I've seen what appear to be solid schools in Colombia and I also know of schools here in the Orlando area that are frequently rated "F" by the state.  Have you seen what American schools produce of late?  We're not exactly the world leader in educational standards...at least not anymore.  This isn't to say that your point is invalid.  I'm just saying that any disparity, whether real or perceived, may not be as great as you believe.

[Researcher]

If Colombian women had the same economic security and education system as American women,  marrying a foreigner would be the last thing on their mind.

If Colombian women had the same attitude as American women, marrying one would have been the last thing on my mind.......just sayin'

           Researcher

[V_Man]

If Colombian women had the same economic security and education system as American women,  marrying a foreigner would be the last thing on their mind.

I think that is an over statement.

Anyway as someone foreign to both countries, it certainly is not clear that the education system in the USA is so superior to Colombia. Not based on the graduates I have met.

[Brazilophile]

Anyway as someone foreign to both countries, it certainly is not clear that the education system in the USA is so superior to Colombia. Not based on the graduates I have met.

Are you talking about primary and secondary education, or college/undergraduate university education?

In both countries, primary and secondary education could use dramatic improvement.  I have met many Colombians who can't learn English mostly because they haven't learned Spanish very well.  All the technical grammar stuff like gerunds, past participles, agreement of adjectives/adverbs, use of punctuation, and sentence structure, that is needed to understand a second language, seems not well understood.  Likewise, I have met many Americans who can't learn Spanish for the very same reason.   

The top tier undergraduate universities in the US blow away ANY Colombian university.  I don't think there is any comparison.  The graduates of Colombian universities I met seemed as knowledgeable as graduates of University of Phoenix.  The Colombians who have academic chops were educated in the US.

I think the countries of western Europe have the world's best primary and secondary education systems.  I expect their universities will soon surpass the those of the US because of our weaker feeder system.  The US will soon suffer from "garbage in, garbage out" while Europe will benefit from "good stuff in, great stuff out".

[opusone]

All things being equal here, we are not talking about someone who understands subject-verb conjugation. Obviously, if one had access to  higher education and increased earning potential, as in the industrialized nations, you wouldn't be choosing a foreigner as your first choice to date. It's not like a bunch of European women who are educated and paid well, are clogging up the cloud looking for American men to marry. Conversely, you are not seeing a lot of American women , begging European men to marry. How often do you see women in foreign countries that have  the equivalent of their American counterparts (in terms of higher education and serious earnings), posting pictures  on a website for marriage, or going on 10 dates a month with different Americans/Europeans? Do you see this in Colombia? I think not.These women really have no need to buck the norm. If you see it, something is terribly off, or it is being done in secret. The reality is, most of these women in places like Latin America, and Asia, who are marrying foreigners ,are doing so  primarily because they are less educated and have little earning potential in their country.  There is no secret as to why the divorce rate in China is up , and why women are holding out longer for  mates. The level of education and earning potential in China, has increased dramatically. Men in China, are feeling the same effects . I will bet any person here that as women around the world become more and more independent from men, not only will it be harder to find a mate, but your level of compromise will be more to her benefit than yours , once the same laws you have here, are put into effect , there. Does that mean you should keep her barefoot and pregnant? Thats up to you . 

[V_Man]

opusone, I think that I have not understood you.

Obviously, if one had access to  higher education and increased earning potential, as in the industrialized nations, you wouldn't be choosing a foreigner as your first choice to date.

I am.
Did I misunderstand?

It's not like a bunch of European women who are educated and paid well, are clogging up the cloud looking for American men to marry.

I think that has less to do with money than it has to do with the quality and availablity of men in Europe.

Conversely, you are not seeing a lot of American women , begging European men to marry.

How many men in any developed country would want to marry an American woman? I think that American women still have plenty of prey locally because American men are still going back for more.

In both cases these women are feminsed and they know they will have a lot of problems trying to hold down a relationship with a man from a non-western country.

I don't know if I have misunderstood you or I just don't agree that the examples illistrate your point.

The reality is, most of these women in places like Latin America, and Asia, who are marrying foreigners ,are doing so  primarily because they are less educated and have little earning potential in their country.

This part is clear and I understand it.
I don't know if it is most or not but it certainly is a percentage.

However western women always wanted to marry up as well. They have always tended to go for someone better educated and with more earning potential than themselves.

In the next generation a problem is brewing. There will be more women with a higher education than men. The percentage of higher earning males is decreasing. Men also excercise other options.

Even now the dynamics are changing. Men are starting to look for women that have as many assests to loose as they do. These women suddenly feel what it is like to take the risks most men take. They don't like it at all.

[z_k_g]

I will bet any person here that as women around the world become more and more independent from men, not only will it be harder to find a mate, but your level of compromise will be more to her benefit than yours , once the same laws you have here, are put into effect , there. Does that mean you should keep her barefoot and pregnant? Thats up to you .

Opusone,

I don't think that your premise will ever happen.

Women in Asia and Africa and other nations will never become independent of men.  Thats not to say that they will be not become more educated and earn a bit more, I think that has already happened and China and Latin America and even certain parts of Africa are good examples of that phenomenon. 

But, that Feminists driven so called "independence" as realized by most American and European women?  I think that will never happen worldwide.

Why?

I think the major reason it won't happen is because of how societies work. 

Around the world the majority of western societies have been built around pluralism and inclusion.  Europe and the Americas, with their democratic societies breeded this idea of equality and one person one vote. 

Religion, nationalism and ethnicisn although very significant and powerful, took a back seat.  Elitism and Wealth were always undercurrents that controlled everything but hide behind the politics, governments and monarchies.

The United States is the shining example of pluralism in the world and its also the home of Feminism, and I think the coincidence is not by chance.  Because this is the only place Feminism had any type of chance of success.

But everywhere else in the world, pluralism just hasn't worked.  Democracy is a joke.  Wealth, nationalism, Ethnicism and religion set the tone of every single decision and law.

Feminism cannot and will never take a full hold in such an atmosphere.  Feminism is fundamentally seeded in law, not logic.  When laws are based solely on religion, tradition and money, Feminism won't even make sense to the very women its trying to to influence.

Part of the Feminists agenda is to take the "movement" worldwide.

This agenda uses human trafficking, prostitution, female genitalia mutilation, child brides, domestic violence, suffrage, family mercy killings and equal pay for equal work as its driving force to reach all women of the world.

These are very good moral battles to fight and I support them all.  (I just don't support the hidden agenda of the Fems who pimp these issues)

The Fems of the west use these "women issues" to unify all the women of the world with the goal of ultimately create a worldwide Feminist movement to create the ubiquitous "independent woman" who will lead and dominate men.

It ain't gonna happen for the reasons I laid out.

When this worldwide movement started, before Bin Laden, men of the world were characterized as "vicious", unfair and unwilling to do the right thing.  The atmosphere was seemingly right for women to "take over". 

This was the exact same tactic the Fems used in the US to get anti-men laws through the legislatures and Congress- Child Molestation, Domestic Violence, Deadbeat dads, Date Rape, remember all that?   Fems really know how to pimp legitimate social issues to further their hidden agendas.

I mean those galvanizing international "women issues" would seemingly have women of the world up in arms and in full revolt and ready to take over from these "awful" and unfair men of the world who had "proven" that they were not leaders!

They had achieved a "win" in the US were ready to take the "agenda" worldwide!

But a funny thing happened when the Fems tried to impose and indoctrinate the women of the world with their real purpose- "to subjugate men and take the power in the relationships and convert marriages to partnerships", they were completely rejected.

Why? Well, the women of the world wanted the "women's issues" resolved but they wanted to resolve them without the controlling Western Fems setting the agenda, without ostracizing their men and at the end of the day maintaining the status quo with men still fully in charge and in leadership positions in the family and the government.

Why?

Because the women of Asia, Africa and Latin America want and Love MEN, not bitchboys and metrosexuals.  They want husbands and not partners and they want to a MAN, their leader (king) to come home every nite and grab them by the hair and "take care of business" not some wimp who washes dishes, knits socks, wears panties and plays with dolls.

The ethnic, cultural and religious traditions were ingrained, thank God!

Men were the leaders and protectors.  Women were the nuturers, care givers and took care the home and children and they didn't want that to change.  Femimism in its present form with its hidden agenda never had a chance of success of creating the worldwide "independent" woman.

I mentioned, Ben Laden and his jehad.  What was his significance?  Well he was a vicious and killer of innocents but he also galvanized the resolve of a large number of Middle eastern, African and Asian muslim women against the hidden agenda of Western Feminism even further.

Why?

Because his message was not just pure terrorism and jehad, but also the complete rejection all things Western, specifically Feminism.

In my opinion, the women of the world have no desire to be this twisted unnatural and self destructive "independent" woman, "super bitch" man dominator as created by the western Feminist.

That's the primary reason I looked for a wife  outside of the US.

Zulu

[vikingo]

Punctuation seems to be completely foreign to any Colombian or most Latin Americans. I shudder to see a long letter or message without hardly any punctuation at all and that applies to professional people as well. An other weak subject is geography; when a Colombian highschool graduate asked me if Germany is part of the United States, I thought to myself, is it any wonder this is a Third World country? But on the other hand I have had some hair raising experiences in the States as well concerning geography.
The first thing I do when I get involved with a Latina, I buy a globe for the children of her family and usually have to build a fire under their little asses to even look at it.

[OrlandoGringo]

Opusone,

I don't think that your premise will ever happen.

Women in Asia and Africa and other nations will never become independent of men.  Thats not to say that they will be not become more educated and earn a bit more, I think that has already happened and China and Latin America and even certain parts of Africa are good examples of that phenomenon. 

But, that Feminists driven so called "independence" as realized by most American and European women?  I think that will never happen worldwide.

Why?

I think the major reason it won't happen is because of how societies work. 

Around the world the majority of western societies have been built around pluralism and inclusion.  Europe and the Americas, with their democratic societies breeded this idea of equality and one person one vote. 

Religion, nationalism and ethnicisn although very significant and powerful, took a back seat.  Elitism and Wealth were always undercurrents that controlled everything but hide behind the politics, governments and monarchies.

The United States is the shining example of pluralism in the world and its also the home of Feminism, and I think the coincidence is not by chance.  Because this is the only place Feminism had any type of chance of success.

But everywhere else in the world, pluralism just hasn't worked.  Democracy is a joke.  Wealth, nationalism, Ethnicism and religion set the tone of every single decision and law.

Feminism cannot and will never take a full hold in such an atmosphere.  Feminism is fundamentally seeded in law, not logic.  When laws are based solely on religion, tradition and money, Feminism won't even make sense to the very women its trying to to influence.

Part of the Feminists agenda is to take the "movement" worldwide.

This agenda uses human trafficking, prostitution, female genitalia mutilation, child brides, domestic violence, suffrage, family mercy killings and equal pay for equal work as its driving force to reach all women of the world.

These are very good moral battles to fight and I support them all.  (I just don't support the hidden agenda of the Fems who pimp these issues)

The Fems of the west use these "women issues" to unify all the women of the world with the goal of ultimately create a worldwide Feminist movement to create the ubiquitous "independent woman" who will lead and dominate men.

It ain't gonna happen for the reasons I laid out.

When this worldwide movement started, before Bin Laden, men of the world were characterized as "vicious", unfair and unwilling to do the right thing.  The atmosphere was seemingly right for women to "take over". 

This was the exact same tactic the Fems used in the US to get anti-men laws through the legislatures and Congress- Child Molestation, Domestic Violence, Deadbeat dads, Date Rape, remember all that?   Fems really know how to pimp legitimate social issues to further their hidden agendas.

I mean those galvanizing international "women issues" would seemingly have women of the world up in arms and in full revolt and ready to take over from these "awful" and unfair men of the world who had "proven" that they were not leaders!

They had achieved a "win" in the US were ready to take the "agenda" worldwide!

But a funny thing happened when the Fems tried to impose and indoctrinate the women of the world with their real purpose- "to subjugate men and take the power in the relationships and convert marriages to partnerships", they were completely rejected.

Why? Well, the women of the world wanted the "women's issues" resolved but they wanted to resolve them without the controlling Western Fems setting the agenda, without ostracizing their men and at the end of the day maintaining the status quo with men still fully in charge and in leadership positions in the family and the government.

Why?

Because the women of Asia, Africa and Latin America want and Love MEN, not bitchboys and metrosexuals.  They want husbands and not partners and they want to a MAN, their leader (king) to come home every nite and grab them by the hair and "take care of business" not some wimp who washes dishes, knits socks, wears panties and plays with dolls.

The ethnic, cultural and religious traditions were ingrained, thank God!

Men were the leaders and protectors.  Women were the nuturers, care givers and took care the home and children and they didn't want that to change.  Femimism in its present form with its hidden agenda never had a chance of success of creating the worldwide "independent" woman.

I mentioned, Ben Laden and his jehad.  What was his significance?  Well he was a vicious and killer of innocents but he also galvanized the resolve of a large number of Middle eastern, African and Asian muslim women against the hidden agenda of Western Feminism even further.

Why?

Because his message was not just pure terrorism and jehad, but also the complete rejection all things Western, specifically Feminism.

In my opinion, the women of the world have no desire to be this twisted unnatural and self destructive "independent" woman, "super bitch" man dominator as created by the western Feminist.

That's the primary reason I looked for a wife  outside of the US.

Zulu

Good post Zulu but I will offer that referencing Bin Laden's teachings is sort of like referencing Mein Kampf.       

[OrlandoGringo]

Anyway as someone foreign to both countries, it certainly is not clear that the education system in the USA is so superior to Colombia. Not based on the graduates I have met.

What er yuu talken aboute?  The unitedd Statess has the beast edication seestem in the woorld.  Its the rest of yuu whose are stoopid! 
 
 

[Zon]

ZKG - thoughtful post upthread.  I do not, necessarily, see the feminist movement as 100% calculating to the detriment of the males - that has just been a consequence of reversing 10000 years of social evolution in one generation.  I do not think that the females, or males, are happy with the result - GENDER CONFUSION.

Conversely, you are not seeing a lot of American women , begging European men to marry. How often do you see women in foreign countries that have  the equivalent of their American counterparts (in terms of higher education and serious earnings), posting pictures  on a website for marriage, or going on 10 dates a month with different Americans/Europeans? Do you see this in Colombia?

I can't agree with this 100%.  The GRADUATE SCHOOL => RESEARCH UNIVERSITIES in the USA are special.  But the garden variety of state school; communications department?  Not exclusively the place for Einsteins  HAHAHA   In fact, on this comparison, I am rather impressed with the university courses in Colombia.  While it is true that the universities lack the rigor of Ivy League, they are not easy!  Colombia has some brains to work with.  But you almost NEVER find them on Colombian Cupid

[CeeTeeEnn]

ZKG, although you put forward a robust explanation as to why feminism will not spread throughout the third world, I would just like to mention the power of the media. Once women in the third world start to taste the fruits of "emancipation" that comes with contraception and employment, you can bet sooner or later the local mass media will start to put before them images of dweeby and pathetic guys just to humour them and entice them to consume. Concerned media watchers would therefore do well to start looking out for this now and thus be in a position to counter it out before it begins to cause real social damage.
 
 Regarding the quote "How often do you see women in foreign countries that have  the equivalent of their American counterparts (in terms of higher education and serious earnings), posting pictures  on a website for marriage, or going on 10 dates a month with different Americans/Europeans?"..i would reply often enough. In many Western cities there are droves of women in their 30s and older going out on speed dating socials and posting on the dating sites, far more so than teens and 20somethings. Ironically, the mainstream salsa club scene here is dominated by hordes of such women learning the steps and looking to meet guys who dance and are up for a coffee afterwards. They outnumber the local latinas 50 to one!
 
 That reminds me... about 20 years ago I recall seeing an ad in the LA times when I was last in Brentwood, SoCal. It was from one of the big Colombian agencies active at the time (run by Ed Beckwith IIRC) and declared something like "photos of gorgeous unspoilt Colombian women." My, how times have changed!
 

[z_k_g]

ZKG, although you put forward a robust explanation as to why feminism will not spread throughout the third world, I would just like to mention the power of the media. Once women in the third world start to taste the fruits of "emancipation" that comes with contraception and employment, you can bet sooner or later the local mass media will start to put before them images of dweeby and pathetic guys just to humour them and entice them to consume. Concerned media watchers would therefore do well to start looking out for this now and thus be in a position to counter it out before it begins to cause real social damage.

CT,

Ain't gonna happen....why?

Censorship.

Its used often and aggressively in every country in the world.  And most significantly, Fems DO NOT control any type of mass media in Asia, Africa or South America.

Besides, unlike America, In other parts of the world, when you insult a real man in those countries you wind up dead.

Zulu

[braziliangirl]

And most significantly, Fems DO NOT control any type of mass media in Asia, Africa or South America.

Nah... Just now they're airing an ad for kids, where the girl is portrayed of being able to do many things, while the boy needs his mother help for everything. I feel sick every time I see it.
I don’t think it has much to do with feminists controlling mass media, but with advertisers knowing that women make most of the purchase decisions.

[thekfc]

I don’t think it has much to do with feminists controlling mass media, but with advertisers knowing that women make most of the purchase decisions.

Correctamundo.

[Researcher]

Colombia has some brains to work with.  But you almost NEVER find them on Colombian Cupid

    Yeah, what few college students that are on CC are probably marketing students. You know the ones that ride the short bus. hahaha!


      Researcher

[opusone]

Nah... Just now they're airing an ad for kids, where the girl is portrayed of being able to do many things, while the boy needs his mother help for everything. I feel sick every time I see it.
I don’t think it has much to do with feminists controlling mass media, but with advertisers knowing that women make most of the purchase decisions.

We don't create ads because women make most of the decisions, we create ads primarily with a focus on permission marketing. Those are aggregated concepts....as in" target-market". Antiquated as such, and the bell curve for that, is quite low. Neuro -marketing 101

[aconcepts]

“These are very good moral battles to fight and I support them all.  (I just don't support the hidden agenda of the Fems who pimp these issues)”

The bottom line is – I could not agree with you more Zeke.

Can you blame Muslims for hating the visual and mental porn the US export worldwide as entertainment?

Try watching Horrible Bosses or Bad Teacher. Your will hear some of the most perverted thought and language. Women exemplify slutty behavior and men are inept metro males clinging to their “relationship.”

It’s the utter disgraceful acceptance of this crap as entertainment that funds anti US sentiment. It funds my anti US culture sentiment. I love my country. I hate the cultural degradation. I don’t see homosexually as mainstream. I don’t see women as superior, I don’t see consumerisms as the answer.

What I see is those in power trying to maintain the status quo or further assaulting traditional family values to make even more money.

I have made the point that you make several times.

US women are in a bad position because they have been indoctrinated by the fems to want a wussy man to control and then cry that they cannot fins a real man when they have a use for him.

Hahahahahaha.

Belive me I know. I have literally built the character and confidence of many men through ancient authentic Chinese kung fu and what happens to their relationships? Either they dump their woman or their relationship goes to a higher more natural level.

It rocks the status quo every time I teach a man how to get in touch with the Wild man that they did not know even existed.

The primal fire in a natural man is close to the surface. In a metromale it so far buried or maybe even extinguished that they have a hard time wrapping their heads around inate masculinity.

When I see a man focused on survival and protection there is no mistaking the look in his eyes. You give that look to a woman in the bedroom and she will be satisfied that you are her superior. And she want to feel that she is under your guidance. A metromale has no clue where to derive such intensity. They move mechanically without passion on the floor as if they were doing aerobics. There is no connection to the primordial that women live for.

In my experience on the planet if you want to get a woman in the mood take her into nature. Take her to a mountainside or deserted beach. When it's you and her truly alone… well you fill in the blanks…

[robert angel]

We don't create ads because women make most of the decisions, we create ads primarily with a focus on permission marketing. Those are aggregated concepts....as in" target-market". Antiquated as such, and the bell curve for that, is quite low. Neuro -marketing 101

Opusone,

I've taken some economics courses, and what you posted may make sense to some, but it's sort of 'neuro gobbledygook' to me. I tend to agree with Brazillian girl that most advertising is directed towards the persons most likely to make the purchase.

 
Maybe that's why we've seen some car dealerships offering an expensive new shotgun with every new truck purchase in my area--guys, especially 'good ole boys' where I live, love trucks and shotguns. Not to be outdone, the dealerships do offer cash back if you don't want a shotgun and you find that  getting cash for a washing machine, a new food processor or whatever, is more appealing.

I used to be in on some advertising production operations, where they had me sit for hours on end, trying to decide based on my and other person's opinions, what elements of commercials in production seemed most appealing.

Today, psychologists are very involved in creating more the expensive advertisements. They, along with systems analysts, (they're usually psychologists too) do that sort of thing. I almost pursued a Master's Degree in the field of 'Behavioral Psychology--System Analysis', but system's analysts also do labor studies in factories to ostensibly make them more efficient, and I remember working bloody hard labor and despising those people, as they tried to squeeze ever more work out of us, using less people in less time, while increasing production.
 
Besides industrial applications, they also do the store layouts so that things like impulse buying are maximized. Things they put on the endcaps of store isles often are far from being bargains, but a lot of people are fooled into thinking they are.

I remember being in a Sam's Wholesale (Wal-Mart) in the south and then going into a Costco Wholesale in Michigan and was absolutely amazed at how all the different products where placed in the same places. It was like if I closed my eyes and didn't know the brand of the store and opened them, I couldn't tell the difference. Even the cellular telephone kiosks and the optical dept--departments that could be easily moved about the store, were in the same place.

What's funny is that some commercials, especially TV telemarketers, tend to go in the the other direction--making TV commercials that are so awful, crude and obnoxiously loud, that you can't help but remember them. Ironically, people who hate those ads often make purchases from those advertisers! Whether it's a subliminal, subconscious sort of thing, I really don't know...

[opusone]

Maybe you should take a few courses in advanced  neuro -marketing  in the year 2011 A.D., as opposed to "some" courses in economics in whatever year that was.  I'm sure it won't be, as you so eloquently state," globbledygook", after you grasp the concept of neuro -science, and how it correlates to marketing. They are seeking impulse response, which are no longer defined by sex, race, etc. Perfect example... anti aging/skin care/ cosmetic surgery/ was a term synonymous with women, and was widely believed to be something only women would want to see, or hear about. Even more so, it was thought that it was women who were over the age of 55, or straddling the lines of menopause. That would be considered antiquated in any advanced boiler room operation cranking out ads for creams, procedures, pills.  However, upon closer examination, today , men ,are just as obsessed with skin care and youth, and have just as many procedures as women, to stave off the inevitable.  Products today are not generally marketed in mass, simply because you have defined the "target" . The old axiom of supply and demand", has more to do with what is permitted by the standards in a given society, and a segment of society, no longer dictates how one would create "triggers" to buy . Hence, men today wear more feminine clothing than ever...(metro sexual), women drive more muscle cars and trucks,(there's your hybrid suv). That was permission marketing at work within the bounds of what society accepts as standard. I could go on and on, but it's probably too much "gobbledygook". Some call it science.

[Brazilophile]

That was permission marketing at work within the bounds of what society accepts as standard. I could go on and on, but it's probably too much "gobbledygook". Some call it science.

I have taken some economics courses AND some marketing courses.  What you describe sounds EXACTLY like 'target marketing' as I was taught it 35 years ago.  The only difference is that the constructs with which a target market is defined are much narrower and more refined leading to a multitude of target markets that did not exist (rather, were not identified) decades ago.  Same stuff, different decade.

[opusone]

I have taken some economics courses AND some marketing courses.  What you describe sounds EXACTLY like 'target marketing' as I was taught it 35 years ago.  The only difference is that the constructs with which a target market is defined are much narrower and more refined leading to a multitude of target markets that did not exist (rather, were not identified) decades ago.  Same stuff, different decade.

 To the untrained eye, it may appear as the two are in fact the same , but upon further examination the two, are in fact very different kinds of marketing. Example: What do you think the "target market" for Victoria Secrets is? The branding  upon inception, is totally different, from that which is permissible. It appears to be an easy question once you analyze what the ads look like, the color schemes, the packaging,  types of mannequins,, many would assume. All of this may appear to you to be target marketing. I can assure they do not have a target market. Go in there ,  sit and observe, and you will understand what I am trying to convey to you .

[Brazilophile]

The branding  upon inception, is totally different, from that which is permissible.

What you are selling IS gobbledygook!

This notion of society permitting a consumer to buy a product is nonsense, unless it refers to repealing laws such as the repeal of Prohibition to permit adults to buy alcohol.  If it refers to social norms, it is utter nonsense.

It is nonsense because the first stage of a product's life-cycle is that of the initial adopters or innovators.  BY DEFINITION, these consumers are doing something contrary to social norms by consuming a good that no one else ever has before.   All products start out without social permission or acceptance.

These last few posts reminded me of why I disliked the marketing courses I had to take.  This is my last on this topic.