The perfect, the good and the totally wrong

[braziliangirl]

Being a woman in a machista culture, I think I sometimes lose the sense of what is good and what is just common regarding a romantic relationship. Maybe I got so used to being mistreated, that is hard to know what is healthy. Plus, I have listened so many times that I am too picky, that I may have ended up believing.

I have been talking to this man since November 2010 (11 months now). He came to visit me in the end of August. Everything has been great except for some things I would like to share with you. Perhaps for you to help me know if this is really right, but more likely because I already know the answer and just need some strength to put an end to it.

It all started in the very beginning. We had very nice conversations about music, feelings, dreams, politics, but I had a hard time getting any detail about him. His name, his work, a picture… Any detail about his real life was a touchy issue. When I asked him why, he said it was because of all those horror stories he heard about people meeting online.

I talked to someone I know from this forum, and he said “He’s got a woman.” I didn’t take it seriously by that time. But, I am curious girl, and while he was hold information from he, I was researching.  And I found out he was in a forum too. And reading his posts, I found out he was ready to break up with someone. I thought it was with me. Silly me…

It was February… I confronted him and he told me the “real” story. He had a girlfriend who had just lost her mother and was threatening to suicide. To me it was not a good excuse to not break up. He asked me to not end what we had. I said he needed to solve that, not because of me, but because of himself.

Two weeks later he writes me telling he had broken up with her. I was missing him terribly, so I decided to talk to him. To cut it short, he said he was sorry and I decided to forgive. We went on talking daily and we had a lot of fun. But he was still super secretive. By then, I had some pictures. But no last time, no phone, nothing more.

One day I get a phone call to my work place. “There is a gringo on the line for you.” I work on an international organization, so I was not so surprised it was a gringo. I just got surprised when I answered and learned that it was he. I was mostly happy, but a little creeped and a little upset because I did not know anything about him and he had my work phone. But, I had spied on him before, so…

Things went on nicely, just with little discussions here and there because of his secretiveness. In my urge to see what was really behind that, I started hinting that I could visit him. I regretted it later, because I realized it was important to me that he made the first visit.

He made the visit. It was just four days, which was really weird to me. He said he had just a few days of vacations, Brazil was expensive, and the last time he travelled internationally was a long time ago, so he wanted to take it slow. Still, he left on a Friday, so he could have stayed at least one more day, but… The visit went great. I especially liked the way he appreciated my city, the food, the culture, the places.

After that, some problems have risen. Like… He applied for grad school and I was happy about that, but I already thought he had a lot of things going on in his life. A demanding job, church work, playing in a band… And now grad school. All great things to be involved. But can you really keep a long distance relationship with all this going on? Can you really search for a wife with all this going on? Better, is finding a wife really a priority with all this going on?

I tried to talk to him about it, but I felt like I was being bratty, demanding, wanting to be number one in his life, while what I really wanted to know was if there was room for me. This guy talks to me every day, but he never said I am his girlfriend. Not even after visiting. He doesn’t even refers to what we have as a relationship. If I question him about it, he talks about the amount of time he spends talking to me every night. I guess it’s fair.

When we have discussions, he just ignores me. Today we had a misunderstanding because of cultural issues and I apologized. He was mad and said he would talk to me later. It was 5h ago. We had a movie date and we were going to discuss the details about the visit I am planning to make in November tonight. He vanished.

It is weird because the thing I liked about him in the beginning was that he said good communication was key to him. I agree and I try my best to communicate well with everyone that surrounds me. Work, family, friends…



Maybe what I want is from you guys is to help me believe there is someone out there that will treat me right. Not in condescending way, but in a loving way. Because deep inside, the question that every man asks himself and that most people say there is no answer to (what a woman wants?) has a very easy answer (every woman wants to be loved).

[fathertime]

He made the visit. It was just four days, which was really weird to me. He said he had just a few days of vacations, Brazil was expensive, and the last time he travelled internationally was a long time ago, so he wanted to take it slow.

Not a good sign AT ALL!

.

When we have discussions, he just ignores me. Today we had a misunderstanding because of cultural issues and I apologized. He was mad and said he would talk to me later. It was 5h ago. We had a movie date and we were going to discuss the details about the visit I am planning to make in November tonight. He vanished.
 

Another bad sign.




You have been talking to him for all these months and he visits you for 4 days?   Does he think you are going to be happy with a 4 day visit after 10 months of talking?  That is outrageous.


You talk and he ignores you and vanishes?  A sign of big time disrespect.  You deserve to be respected by whomever you choose for a husband. 


He had a girlfriend for several months while you were webcamming regularly.  So he was LYING and toying with somebodies feelings there.  I don't think that is a good person to seriously consider for marriage.  Next time you will be the girlfriend and he will be webcamming with some lady from Colombia, or Argentina, or Peru. 


Without a doubt this guy should be dumped pronto.  Don't waste another day on this fool! 


Fathertime! 

[Tanuki]

BG;
 
Based on your posts, you have a good head on your shoulders.  There is someone out there for you, don't loose hope in that.  If your gut is telling you something is wrong, go with that and get out.  It is better to be safe than sorry.  I believe for woman, they have to deal with a lot more crap then men do when using the internet in search of a realtionship.
 
 

[Kiltboy1]

BG
 
He is a player and most likely has another woman in his country or other country. too many red flags. I would cut ties completely if it were me
 
KB

[AndyLee]

BG, I can understand your concerns and I can feel you frustration and sadness. It's very similar in many ways to what our friend IV went through last month. There are a lot of good men in the world and you will find one who is right for you and you are right for him. Just keep on keeping on.
Take care,
AL

[InSanDiego]

BG, of course there are men out there who will treat you right. However, would you be interested in them? You maintained a relationship with this guy after finding out he was still with another woman. The "she might commit suicide" excuse was a horrible excuse and should have been a huge red flag for you. Even if that is true, what does that say about him and his ability to have a healthy relationship if his girlfriend was going to kill herself if he left.... If you're decent looking, which I imagine you are if the guy traveled all that way to see you, I'm sure you have plenty of suitors, some of whom would actually treat you well...I respect for sharing on this forum, but it's hard for me to sympathize with people who lament being treated poorly when they maintain relationships with somebody despite obvious red flags, and despite having other options....

[JWR]

Sorry you are going through this.
I think after we invest time in a person, and get attached, it's sometimes not easy to do what we know we need to do.  Attraction is a mysterious thing, and hanging around in a bad situation defies logic but time just goes by.
I have a chat friend in the Philippines that had a 6 year relationship with an American guy that would go and see her about 2 weeks out of the year.  She waited and waited and waited.  She never chatted with him late at night and he didn't like to go on cam because he was "cam shy"  Well of course he was already married, and was just enjoying his filipina gf on "business trips"  Well she was in love and even made excuses for him when I pointed these things out.  She broke it off with him, and was angry with him of course.  I told her that she needed to focus less on what he had done, and focus more on the person in the mirror, and why she would invest 25% of her total life to date waiting around for a guy for years making promises.
You know what you need to do.....
 

[dennislevy]

Hi
First of all, I m sorry about what happened. Your judgement is cocrrect, ths guy for any number of reasons isn t a prospect for you.

If i can, let me give you some perspectives of how i think as a gringo ...and i think they should be realistic expectations for a latina talking to any foreign man.

if the communication is good, then trust is EARNED, step by step. Both should give their names and their ages, their marital status,where they live and with whom, how many kids they have (if any) and ages of their kids, what they do and what the  kids are doing. That s what I look for by the end of the no more then second on line chat. and I m happy to give that informaiton in the first chat. 

if a woman immediately gives me her phone number, I say thank you....but I would like us to talk a bit more before I call . if she doesnt like that answer, OK. I undertand that women wnat to hear a man s voice to see if he is sincere...but I won t necessarily do it. I will NEVER make the first call to a woman unless I told her, that I wull call her, at a sp  ¿ecirfic time on a specific day. or it might be int he middle of a chat, as in I ll call you in a minute...but nenver wthout warning.

I decided about thre and ahalf years ago that long distance international romance didnt work for me.....so I moved to Colombia and I traveled in country. But I understand that a lot of men don t have the options....They have careers or families in their country and their time is limited. But IF a man WON T visit a woman in 90 days, at the most 6 months from the first contact, for whatever reason he s not that serious about finding a foreign wife. There are nice men with good values who love to chat, but if they cant show up, they aren tmotivated. This process involves willingess and ability ot travel and perssitence.

A woman shoud never offer to viist a man and expect the man to pay for a trip, especially an international trip.  PERIOD. Either the man makes the first visit or he doesnt...and as a woman, you shoul be talking  to as many men as you can....

I don t know where you live, but if a man can t schedule a week to be in your city and spend time with you......forget it. 4 days is isn t enough .I don t know where he was coming from, but even if it was Florida and you live in some big wasy to get to city...4 days isnt enough. he may well have been meetiing oher women on  the trip that he made to see you.

That would be my first suspicion. if you didn t meet him at the airport and say goodbye him at the airport, I would be even more suspicious

You re thinking correctly, if I were you, I would immediely cut off contact with this man.

[InnocentVixen]

I'm sorry things are not going well my dear friend, I know it hurts but you have have to ask yourself how much longer are you willing to waste your time for this guy, if it's officially over then allow yourself a bit to heal but don't mourn him too long, he is not worth it. It's already been almost a year and even after he visited you are still right were you started, alone and very much single.


Don't feel bad for waiting this long, what is done is done and the good thing is you opened up your eyes, like you sometimes I am a bit too nice to men I am interested in, mostly because of the way I was raised I would guess, you know the machismo and all that, but lucky for me I am very blunt and I am done with being patient, this is not necessarily a good thing since many men are looking exactly that... "a forgiving woman" they usually say... but would you really like a man that needs that? it is one thing to forgive something once in a while but a man in constant need of forgiveness?



The drama is always a huge red flag, even if it was true, why would you want to be with someone like that? you have a good life going on, find yourself a good man, I know it doesn't feel like there are many right now, that he was special and in a way he probably was since he had your attention, but believe me there are plenty out there... unlike many latinas we have the luxury of being able to marry for love and even make things easy for the guy being able to speak the language and visit them in return instead of sitting around and waiting to be rescued, don't let that go to waste.


You are an amazing woman and whoever you end up with will be blessed to have you in his life, that some loser didn't have it in him to appreciate you just shows he was not worthy of you, it's ok to pity him, he will probably end up with an annoying drama queen like himself and they will be miserable together 


Perhaps try dating someone with friendship in mind so you can distract and get to know someone with no pressure, someone that already has plans to visit your country or has to go there (or close to there) for biz and that doesn't mind a little detour or at the very least someone who is willing and able to travel to meet someday soon and this you should put on your profile and discuss BEFORE you start to get too involved with him, don't be afraid to scare them off, if a guy thinks you are desperate he was probably not ready for anything serious anyways and was hoping to stall and have a platonic penpal for a long time.


abrazos hermosa~

[Brazilophile]

BG,
 
 As a man, I apologize for the poor treatment you are receiving from a fellow male.
 
 I am not going to speculate as to why he is treating you badly or what is going on in his life.  It is clear to me from your post that this man is not making room for you in his life and therefore you are not a high priority for him.  Certainly, he is a higher priority in YOUR life than YOU are in HIS!  You need to fix that immediately by lowering his priority in your life to the SAME level as you are in his.  Meaning you guys are pals.
 
 I am not sure that it is simple that a woman wants to be loved.  At least it is not simple to me.  All women do not feel loved in the same way.  One woman may feel adored by what one man does and another woman may feel disrespected by that very same man doing the very same things.  Each woman must look inside herself and determine what she NEEDS from a man for her to feel loved by him.   If a man is meeting those needs, then keep the relationship progressing.  If he is not, then let the relationship stagnate or end completely.   (I will be criticized for being too analytical about that, but so be it.)
 
 I think InSD was somewhat harsh on you, but he is nonetheless correct.  If you were not forced to keep communicating with this man, then you bear some of the responsibility for his continued poor treatment of you.  Were you hoping that the red flags you saw would be explained away, and the two of you could live happily ever after?  That happens to everyone, men and women.   That is why, in the words of Hoda, a former poster, we need to do a "Check-up from the neck up."
 
 

[fathertime]

  you have a good life going on, find yourself a good man, I know it doesn't feel like there are many right now, that he was special and in a way he probably was since he had your attention, but believe me there are plenty out there..

I was at a little reunion last night.  I was talking to a woman that I've known for about 21 years or so.  She expressed this 'no good men' comment out there as well.  Usually I dismiss these statements as being silly and/or untrue.  She was recounting her experiences with men over the past 20 or so years and it appeared she had legit. concerns.  She is now in her late 40's and never married.  She mentioned that she still had no problem finding men, but through the years none of them were REALLY sincere about marriage/family.     She may be exaggerating a little, but I have come to realize that for women there needs to be a certain sense of urgency, because time does slip away and the possibilities trend in a direction that will require more and more compromise from a woman.  I know there are some exceptions to this.


 If I were you, I would consider putting yourself out there on the dating sites.  You will get a lot of action, and among the dozens of responses you get, you have a good chance of finding 1 or 2 real possibilities, maybe more!  After getting to know a man a little bit, one thing I would insist upon is that he get his ass over to see you QUICKLY.  No cyber-relationships for months and months on end.  These are months/years of your life and you don't have time for men who aren't going to respect your time.  You need to know that they are serious and able to see you regularly so you can make a judgement about his viability in terms of husband/marriage.


One more thing. If you have any questions in terms of how a man is treating you, or what his thinking might be, you should voice them sooner!  This recent 'novio' should have been cut off months ago.  I bet nearly every man here would have told you that, and you would have saved a lot of time!




Now go get that booty! 


Fathertime! 
 

[pablito]

Hi BG, sorry for your experience, but I agree with the many folks here that there are several red flags in what you've related.  They've gone over the details the negatives of your situation in some detail, so maybe I can give you some examples of my current virtual relationship (we're not meeting till January) which has gone very, very well, as some things that I think are positives to look for.


Now, first of all, lots of folks will warn against cultivating an in-depth relationship before you meet, and they're generally right, so I'm not suggesting anyone follow my example.  I hadn't planned on it, and it's not something you can make happen, but things just seem to go from good to better, so far it's really a case of the right person at the right time for the both of us.


Here's some examples of how we each built up trust.  When I knew I would be going to her country (Costa Rica), I asked her what she wanted to know about me to decide if she wanted to meet me, and then I did the same.  When we both decided we wanted to meet, it just happened that January was the best time for her because she's a teacher and they have that month off, and that's when I was planning on going anyway.  By the following week I had received approval for my vacation, bought the tickets, and told her when I'd get there.  The only commitment that I asked of her was to meet, and I was clear that there was no further obligation on either of us if it wasn't going so well.


On her end, after we chatted regularly for a week or so I asked about Skyping each other, she said she'd get on that.  A couple of days later I asked how it was going, she said it will be ready tomorrow, and it was.  She makes sure she looks nice for the chat, as if we were actually going out somewhere together, and so I do the same.  We talk ever night for hours, about all kinds of stuff.  We always ask each other how the day went, and if anything interesting happens we share it.  We pretty much have a good understanding of each others' schedules, and sometimes take pictures of things we talk about and post them to our Facebook pages for each other to see.


If this keeps up till January, and we get on as well in person as in Skype, it might be a one and done, who knows?

[braziliangirl]

 Thank you all the supporters for the advice and kind words. I knew I could count on you to find strength to do what needs to be done. I’ll get back to this topic when I feel better.

To the judgmental jerk, InSanDiego:
You need to learn a lot about latin culture. You may even need to learn how to read. Note that I started my post telling how a machista culture like mine makes it hard to know what is good.
There was a point in my life where I believed a good guy is one that cheats, but not in front of everyone. One that doesn't get drunk everyday and beat you or steal your money. And that was pretty much what I could expect, because what I saw around was just horrible.
You don't know me, I never talked to you and, more important, what I really don't need right now is the lack of respect you showed towards me.

[InSanDiego]

BG, I 'm sorry you chose to take my post the way you did. I actually was trying NOT to be judgemental. Other posters have been more gentle than I was, but all seem to be in agreement about your situation, and another even mentioned you might want to "'look in the mirror.'" You can call me names if you want,  but I wasn't the one who led you on. I wasn't the one who was cultivating a relationship with you while still involved with another woman. As long as you are unwilling to hear feedback, which, based on the information you gave, was ACCURATE, you will continue to choose losers and then feel sorry for yourself...

[braziliangirl]

InSanDiego,

Once again. You should really go back to school and learn to read. I thought functional illiteracy was a 3rd world thing.

[V_Man]

BG allow me to justify my view point on this.
I know exactly what you mean about the need to not be obsesively picky while balancing the need for certain qualities in a life mate.

Perhaps my situation can give you a little prespective on what a to expect from a western man.
 I am in Australia. The time zones to talk to a girl in South America are all wrong. It makes it impossible to CAM every day for me. In addition the time and costs for me to travel mean that a trip for me does take several months to arrange no matter how crazy I am about someone. So all this talk about CAMing each night and travelling within 90 days, if applied to me would rule me out.

However:
Not only do I ask questions of someone I am interested in, I also ask her if she has any questions for me. During the whole process trust is being built up on both sides. In addition I have lived through some experiences that were life changing for me. Hence as things develop I feel an obligation to tell her about those events even if she never asks. Somethings people have a right to know if you are serious about each other. So eventually those things come out of me as well. Probably the only thing I don't tell some girl in South America that I have never meet is my home or work addresses (purely for security reasons). But I have never been asked that anyway.

Once a girl became very suspicious of me. It wasn't very logical - just the usual Latin jealousy thing. So I got my female Spanish speaking friend to call her on her mobile and set the record straight about what sort of man I am. Powerful stuff. Of course not every guy is in a position to do that but when you care about someone and she has some concerns, a stand up guy will find ways to get the message across loud and clear no matter what the hurdles.

I also take notice of anything she does to go the extra mile in order to contact me or to reassure me. It's a 2 way thing.

Now in this international endevour I feel that one also must give people the benefit of the doubt to some extent. I try not to focus on the issue that may arise but rather on how we resolve it. There will be issues in any relationship. Hence the way that an issue is dealt with is absolutely vital in my view. If she and I can not resolve issues well then there simply is no future for us. It really is as simple and stark as that. There simply is no future in such a relationship.

Now let's suppose that some of what you are talking about could be explained away. Here are some things that are just not acceptable in what you are describing.
1. Obviously the other girl friend thing is a deal breaker on it's own.
2. The lame excuses are a big red flag
3. The going back on a Friday strongly points to a requirement to return to a woman in his home country. It makes no sense at all any other way. He would need to have a compelling reason that he could explain to you to plan a trip that involved returning on a Friday. BG I have to fly back to Australia which takes me 3 days - that is a reason to leave on a Friday but even I am leaving on a Saturday and arriving back on  Monday just so I'd have another Friday night with my girl. Compare that with your guy's lame excuses.
4. The general lack of answers to your questions is a giant red flag - but to continue like that after he has meet you in person is a deal breaker.
5. The inability to resolve a disagreement in an adult manner is a deal breaker if it is a pattern. You appologised and it was only a misunderstanding. If he can't deal with that then there simply is no future with this guy. He could be mister perfect from heaven and this is still a deal breaker all on it's own.
6. Frankly this guy simply isn't ready to marry anyone any where.

BG you are never going to have a long happy life with this guy. You did your absolute best but he simply is not marriage material. There are thousands of us guys that are good marriage material. Don't waste more time with this one. Look on the bright side. You learnt some things. Stay positive and start again. You are clearly very intelligent and serious about a relationship. You must be reasonably attractive with several other positive qualities or this guy would not have vistied you at all. Hence someone much better will as well.

Bounce back soon.

P.S. (off topic) If I could speak some Portugese I would absolutely love to visit your country. I think it's awesome!

[AndyLee]

BG, I 'm sorry you chose to take my post the way you did. I actually was trying NOT to be judgemental. Other posters have been more gentle than I was, but all seem to be in agreement about your situation, and another even mentioned you might want to "'look in the mirror.'" You can call me names if you want,  but I wasn't the one who led you on. I wasn't the one who was cultivating a relationship with you while still involved with another woman. As long as you are unwilling to hear feedback, which, based on the information you gave, was ACCURATE, you will continue to choose losers and then feel sorry for yourself...

InSanDiego your remarks to BG are insensitive, unnecessary, self serving and totally uncalled for.  BG is a valuable member of this forum and has contributed unselfishly and doesn't deserve to be attacked. Go spew your misguided philosophy somewhere else.

[InSanDiego]

AndyLee, get over yourself,  you are not the PL Moderator. I'll post whatever I want when I want to. 

[Samuel]

Oi BG,


Thank you for feeling comfortable enough to tell us your heartfelt experience.  My impression of you is that you are a special woman and without doubt you'll find a man that truly loves you.  This guy obviously wasn't the right man for you.  You deserve better.


My advice would be to take your time and not get too emotionally involved with a man you've met through the internet until you have had an opportunity to spend time together.  This man was less than honest with you and manipulative.


I'm curious, how you both met initially.  Was it on an introduction site similar to BrazilCupid?


Take care, your heart will mend.


Sam

[Bob_S]

Who hasn't been through this before, in one form or another?

I remember what you told me before you went out on your own:
'sometimes to keep it together, we got to leave it alone.'
So you can get on with your search, baby, and I can
Get on with mine
And maybe someday we will find ,
that it wasn't really wasted time.

[Dan]

AndyLee, get over yourself,  you are not the PL Moderator. I'll post whatever I want when I want to.

No, actually you won't.

AndyLee provided you useful feedback. The gracious thing to do would have been to accept it and contribute more productively - as nearly all our members have done in this topic.

- Dan

[InSanDiego]

actually I will. Ban me.

[Dan]

actually I will. Ban me.

Suit Yourself.

- Dan

[fathertime]

Who hasn't been through this before, in one form or another?

I remember what you told me before you went out on your own:
'sometimes to keep it together, we got to leave it alone.'
So you can get on with your search, baby, and I can
Get on with mine
And maybe someday we will find ,
that it wasn't really wasted time.

On my list of the all time best songs!  On the same album loved final song 'The Last Resort' was great too!


Fathertime!

[Zon]

Thanks for re-possessing the board, DAN.   Quality discussion is the focus, and a vibrant exhange of perspectives and experiences.

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