helping out... the money issue

[benjio]

Chameleon,
 
I like you dude. You're a smart cat. Seems like you may have a found one of those rare jewels and I sincerely hope things work out for the best.
 
I've known quite a few Colombianas along the coast that have dated gringos. When a girl from a poorer backgroud that has at no point in her life been accustomed to buying things she wants starts asking you to buy them, it's usually because of the assumption that all gringos are rich. But there's also something else that happens at times. Your girlfriend is going to talk about you constantly. Her friends are going to know pretty much every single little detail about you she thinks is appropriate as public knowledge. As you learn more and more Spanish and you begin to hang around her friends and family more often, you'll discover that people you've never met know a lot about you because of what she has told them. That's not a bad thing!!! Women are like this when they're falling in love. BUT, when she's sharing her experiences with other Colombianos, I can assure you it's only a matter of time before someone starts asking about how well you're "taking care of her." "What did he buy you?" "What don't you have a better cell phone?" "You should ask your boyfriend to get it for you?" This is common along the coast. Any association with a gringo is seen by the average Costeno as an opportunity to take advantage of them. Your girlfriend is probably perfectly happy with you, but she may be under the pressure to conform to a perception the people around her have. When a Costena has a gringo boyfriend, people expect her quality of life to immediately start improving. When it doesn't, it's only a matter of time before people start asking, "...then why are you dating a gringo?"
 
I obviously don't know your girlfriend or her situation, but I was just mentioning that I've seen this happen very often just sitting around listening to Colombianas speak. Deep down, she may not want a dime from you. But the majority of women, Latina or Gringa, are significantly influenced by the expectations of others.

[whitey]

Chameleon,
 
I like you dude. You're a smart cat. Seems like you may have a found one of those rare jewels and I sincerely hope things work out for the best.
 
I've known quite a few Colombianas along the coast that have dated gringos. When a girl from a poorer backgroud that has at no point in her life been accustomed to buying things she wants starts asking you to buy them, it's usually because of the assumption that all gringos are rich. But there's also something else that happens at times. Your girlfriend is going to talk about you constantly. Her friends are going to know pretty much every single little detail about you she thinks is appropriate as public knowledge. As you learn more and more Spanish and you begin to hang around her friends and family more often, you'll discover that people you've never met know a lot about you because of what she has told them. That's not a bad thing!!! Women are like this when they're falling in love. BUT, when she's sharing her experiences with other Colombianos, I can assure you it's only a matter of time before someone starts asking about how well you're "taking care of her." "What did he buy you?" "What don't you have a better cell phone?" "You should ask your boyfriend to get it for you?" This is common along the coast. Any association with a gringo is seen by the average Costeno as an opportunity to take advantage of them. Your girlfriend is probably perfectly happy with you, but she may be under the pressure to conform to a perception the people around her have. When a Costena has a gringo boyfriend, people expect her quality of life to immediately start improving. When it doesn't, it's only a matter of time before people start asking, "...then why are you dating a gringo?"
 
I obviously don't know your girlfriend or her situation, but I was just mentioning that I've seen this happen very often just sitting around listening to Colombianas speak. Deep down, she may not want a dime from you. But the majority of women, Latina or Gringa, are significantly influenced by the expectations of others.

Good advice Benjio.

I know my wife has felt these influences on at least a few occasions, but she has never mentioned it to me.  There was only one time I can recall her asking me for something that was so out of character that I KNOW it was someone else influencing her.

[Researcher]

Deep down, she may not want a dime from you. But the majority of women, Latina or Gringa, are significantly influenced by the expectations of others.

    This is a good point to bring up.It is so true.Many negative attributes that apply to many women are somehow considered to only apply to Colombianas. The money issue is another topic that is discussed ALOT here and I would say the most important advice I can give is this: If you get serious with a woman does she expect you to send money to support her family? This is something important to find out. If you think buying her a laptop or a new cell phone is asking too much you may want to find out if she and her family have any monthly payment plans in store for you.
 
          Researcher

[chameleon]

Chameleon,
 
I like you dude. You're a smart cat. Seems like you may have a found one of those rare jewels and I sincerely hope things work out for the best.
 
I've known quite a few Colombianas along the coast that have dated gringos. When a girl from a poorer backgroud that has at no point in her life been accustomed to buying things she wants starts asking you to buy them, it's usually because of the assumption that all gringos are rich. But there's also something else that happens at times. Your girlfriend is going to talk about you constantly. Her friends are going to know pretty much every single little detail about you she thinks is appropriate as public knowledge. As you learn more and more Spanish and you begin to hang around her friends and family more often, you'll discover that people you've never met know a lot about you because of what she has told them. That's not a bad thing!!! Women are like this when they're falling in love. BUT, when she's sharing her experiences with other Colombianos, I can assure you it's only a matter of time before someone starts asking about how well you're "taking care of her." "What did he buy you?" "What don't you have a better cell phone?" "You should ask your boyfriend to get it for you?" This is common along the coast. Any association with a gringo is seen by the average Costeno as an opportunity to take advantage of them. Your girlfriend is probably perfectly happy with you, but she may be under the pressure to conform to a perception the people around her have. When a Costena has a gringo boyfriend, people expect her quality of life to immediately start improving. When it doesn't, it's only a matter of time before people start asking, "...then why are you dating a gringo?"
 
I obviously don't know your girlfriend or her situation, but I was just mentioning that I've seen this happen very often just sitting around listening to Colombianas speak. Deep down, she may not want a dime from you. But the majority of women, Latina or Gringa, are significantly influenced by the expectations of others.

Thanks. I actually hadn't thought about how external influences could affect her behavior.


Now that I think about it there's definitely an element of this because she told me her friend's bf, a gringo, pays for everything. He pays for her apartment, food, internet, phone, clothes etc. I listened and told her that that's nice but i don't know the particulars of his/their situation, couldn't comment on it further, so  wasn't going to go there that early in the relationship because after all, we're bf/gf, not husband and wife. She didn't actually ask me but i wanted to head it off. This was even before the blackberry thing came up and i shut that down. Wouldn't be surprised if her gf got a blackberry now that you've point that out.


Researcher, I actually made a point of talking to her about that shortly before I left. I asked her what her expectations were. She had some ideas in her head that i shot down pretty quickly (if i buy a second house it ain't gonna be in colombia). I made it clear that if things proceed, our future family was going to be taking priority and that I was not going to be sending a monthly stipend to colombia every month. I would obviously consider helping to the extent i could in a real emergency, but that i wasn't interested in sending money down so that everyone else could stop working.


I explained that we'd have to save for a home, kids, private schools for the kids, college fund for kids, retirement, etc. Hell, i'll have to pay for her education too, and in the first year of marriage there are all the costs of the engagement ring, wedding, honeymoon, immigration, new wardrobe, english classes, etc and that there simply won't be much left-over. On top of that I'll surely want to do tons of things with her that she's never been able to experience in colombia, and that will all cost money too. I told her that i needed to know her take on these things because if we were completely at odds there would be no point in continuing the relationship.


I wouldn't be surprised if it came up again in the future but I intend to have another talk before getting engaged just to make sure it sunk in the first time.

[z_k_g]

Chem,

I've read all of the posts here and I'd like to put in my two pisos of advice.

First off, in a long distance relationship trust is very critical, as most of the posters have pointed out.  But I'd like to add another important and sometimes missed element.

Risk.

Risk is not the same as trust.  In fact they are fundamentally different.  You manage risk, you seek trust.

Sometimes they can compliment each other times they contradict, but always, both are necessary in any type of relationship.

Risk is used more in the business world to determine if you should embark on a certain investment etc. and risk management is the systematic and repeatable process all businesses employ to make that final yes or no decision.

And we all know that "the higher the risk, the higher the return" and this is a big factor in the business decision making process.

So how does this apply to relationships?

You have to determine if your investment (money, emotions and time spent) with the associated risk (novia) will produce an acceptable return (meaningful mutually beneficial relationship).

Thing is, even when you exercise proper due diligence and employ aggressive risk management techniques, you still may lose your investment.  This holds true for business and relationship investment opportunities.

So how do you know if you are making the right decisions, and taking reasonable risks with a high (50% or better) chance of success?

My background is process improvement and risk management (capital projects engineer) so forgive me for this technical approach.

But, during my search (in Asia) I had to employ a repeatable process for selection, evaluation and courting.  The similarities with SA are obvious, both are very high risk locations for finding a bride, lots of possible scammers, green card seekers and runners, and both have very high returns- a young, beautiful, exotic female who will probably make a fantastic wife and life mate.

Maybe this process does not work in Colombia or needs some tweeks but here it goes (in brief)

Zulu Long Distance Relationship Risk Management Steps (Asia or SA, its generic)

1.  Set standards/rules and clear boundaries for yourself and your novia, write these down so you will not forget and backslide once you get hot and heavy with your hot latina (or asian) arm candy!

2.  Learn the lay of the land- Learn Spanish (or whatever language), get to know the family, friends, habits (good and bad)

3.  Develop a list of Due Diligence questions (100+) and establish an overall pass or fail percent and starting with your "must have" deal breaker questions.  Ask these questions to all of your prospects.  Ask the deal breaker questions (10+) on the first dates.  Leave your Due diligence questions for stage 2 prospects and blend them into your daily chats.  If you are in the seeking phase, keep a database or written log of each girl and her answers.  Trust me, it helps when you have multiple hot prospects.

4.  Stick by your guns- A failure is a failure, move on or if their is some strategic advantage continue the chats but maintain the "friendship" or "f*ckbuddy" boundary, by all means do this but do not BACKSLIDE.

5.  Weed out quickly, the longer you delay, the more difficulty in dumping and moving on

6.  Decide how much you are going to spend.  Honestly you will spend, NOTHING WORTH VALUE IS FREE!!  But, set your cash limits for "assistance" during the gf/bf (novia) stage.  Obviously you will spend much more later once you are engaged (and more) but in the beginning stages have distinct spending limits.

So why my long response when obviously you have made your decision? 

Well, its never too late to start making better decisions and you can employ my "risk management" process, in part or wholly, at any time during the relationship (but the earlier the better).

And, this is not a complete list by any means, I have more, but these six process steps are the most critical for new couples and really establish the foundation of your interpersonal relationship(s).

Also, my risk management process is by no means absolute or entirely new and I'm not suggesting its the best, but its has worked for me (so far).

Its really not my invention, so I can't take any credit, its just a condensed amalgamation of steps I've gleaned from my extensive research and my own personal experiences (mostly in Asia).   

The results are these steps, gleaned from the many many others who have faced the challenge of the SA or Asain long distance relationship and succeeded.

In my humble opinion, if you follow the 6 basic Zulu Risk Management Steps, you will never have to wonder if you are a walking ATM.

Open and honest discussions and clear defined boundaries remove the uneasiness of having the difficult discussion about money and financial issues.  If and when your novia needs funding above and beyond what you have previously agreed, then you already have a process in place where she can make an honest request, whatever the need. I think that's fair and reasonable.

Because you have already done the preliminary work, and used a repeatable, logical and objective "risk management" selection process, you have vetted your novia thoroughly, the possibility of her "emergency" request being a SCAM is significantly diminished (realistically this possibility is never totally eliminated, you can always be conned, and further, sometimes people just change).

Life is much more relaxed, you are in less of the "investigation/suspicion" mode and your "trust but verify" threshold is lower and your life is much less stressful. (But still you always verify!).

All the initial "Risk Management" work on the front end will pay off in big dividends on the back end as you approach engagement, marriage and immigration, and her eventual move to the states and your ensuing family life.

I think the biggest mistake made is when a guy gets off the plane and falls in love (discussed ad nauseam on P-L).  Its hard not too because suddenly you are surrounded by young women, half your age, beautiful, hot, available (and sometimes horny), and they are all there for you!

The cold hard truth is that you are the DECIDER!  Act like it!

This is not Kansas and this is not a fairy tale, and she may be a hot latina princess but you are the f*cking king!

Its up to YOU to pick the one who not only physically fulfills YOUR NEEDS but also FULFILLS YOU IN EVER OTHER WAY!

And.....Remember....you are in SA bro!

If she can't fulfill you needs COMPLETELY, Her better (hotter) replacement is just around the corner!

Zulu

[JimD]

... because she told me her friend's bf, a gringo, pays for everything. He pays for her apartment, food, internet, phone, clothes etc.

... I asked her what her expectations were. She had some ideas in her head that i shot down pretty quickly (if i buy a second house it ain't gonna be in colombia). I made it clear that if things proceed, our future family was going to be taking priority and that I was not going to be sending a monthly stipend to colombia every month. I would obviously consider helping to the extent i could in a real emergency, but that i wasn't interested in sending money down so that everyone else could stop working.


I explained that we'd have to save for a home, kids, private schools for the kids, college fund for kids, retirement, etc. Hell, i'll have to pay for her education too, and in the first year of marriage there are all the costs of the engagement ring, wedding, honeymoon, immigration, new wardrobe, english classes, etc and that there simply won't be much left-over. On top of that I'll surely want to do tons of things with her that she's never been able to experience in colombia, and that will all cost money too. I told her that i needed to know her take on these things because if we were completely at odds there would be no point in continuing the relationship.


I wouldn't be surprised if it came up again in the future but I intend to have another talk before getting engaged just to make sure it sunk in the first time.

.
 
Sooo many issues. First she does not have a girlfriend who's gringo pays for everything. Yeah right! This is an absolutely stock urban legend these girls repeat over and over again and repeating it to you is offensive. I would respond: you don't say...interesting. You know I have a buddy who's engaged to a colombiana and she performs felatio for nine hours at a stretch.  ¿que tal?¡
.
Next: asking what her expectations are is something you would do with an American girl. It doesn't apply in Colombia. Instead you simply tell her when we get married our life will be so and so, you will get to go to school to learn English, mas adelante ( a little later) you will have your own car, (imaginete!) and you will be the mother of many happy children. Keep it simple. You start to talk about a "college fund for your kids", "private school"  yada yada. Look nothing in her life has prepared her to think about such issues,those apply to the gente adinerada, rich people. You might as well ask her what she thinks about the trends on Wall Street. In sum just skip any long talks about future expectations and plans. That just doesn't compute with these girls. Talk about the near future without commitment. You can say "en estos dias podemos averiguar de los blackberrie" (we can check out Blackberrys in the next days).
.
But to sum up she has shown you her true colors which are pretty much identical amongst all Colombian girls in these strata and if you want to go ahead you'll just have to "manejarla" (manage her) like any Colombian man would.
 
 

[benjio]

.
 
Sooo many issues. First she does not have a girlfriend who's gringo pays for everything. Yeah right! This is an absolutely stock urban legend these girls repeat over and over again and repeating it to you is offensive. I would respond: you don't say...interesting. You know I have a buddy who's engaged to a colombiana and she performs felatio for nine hours at a stretch.  ¿que tal?¡
.
Next: asking what her expectations are is something you would do with an American girl. It doesn't apply in Colombia. Instead you simply tell her when we get married our life will be so and so, you will get to go to school to learn English, mas adelante ( a little later) you will have your own car, (imaginete!) and you will be the mother of many happy children. Keep it simple. You start to talk about a "college fund for your kids", "private school"  yada yada. Look nothing in her life has prepared her to think about such issues,those apply to the gente adinerada, rich people. You might as well ask her what she thinks about the trends on Wall Street. In sum just skip any long talks about future expectations and plans. That just doesn't compute with these girls. Talk about the near future without commitment. You can say "en estos dias podemos averiguar de los blackberrie" (we can check out Blackberrys in the next days).
.
But to sum up she has shown you her true colors which are pretty much identical amongst all Colombian girls in these strata and if you want to go ahead you'll just have to "manejarla" (manage her) like any Colombian man would.

Couldn't have said it better myself....

[chameleon]

Interesting reply Jim. I think i saw how pointless talking about that stuff was during the talk. It didn't seem improssible to me because i've seen these girls exchanging phone numbers at the agency since they often get to talking before, during, and after the group intro. In one case 3 girls seemed to be best friends by the end and all exchanged right in front of me and i made a joke about it. And at the same time we frequently admonish guys on here for being too free with their money. Not saying that's the case here, but if you put the two together, it's not impossible.  I guess it's not super probable, but i'm not doing what the fictional/non-fictional bf is doing either way and told her there was no way that was going to happen.


Actually, that makes me think of another story, michelle (the translator) told me a story about a guy that had been dating 2 agency girls that had become friends. When he left he continued communicating with them both, but little did he know that they knew each other from another intro. Eventually everything fell apart as the two girls found out they were talking about the same guy and they both ended it with him. Michelle told me this because i was dating one of the girls and she wanted me to know that she might not be over this guy.


I also told myself a while ago that the deal-breaker with this or any other girl would be if she seemed more interested in things/money than in me. She hasn't behaved perfectly, but since the blackberry "incident" she has been good. If, for example, she'd started pouting, acting bitchy, or trying to guilt trip me when i told her i wasn't going to buy her a blackberry and that what i spent was going to be limited to stuff like internet so we could talk, I would have ended it there. Instead she was super apologetic, hasn't gone there since, and seems to enjoy our conversations now more than ever.


If she starts to feel secure that she's got me hooked after more time has passed and she tries to go there again she will have made a serious mistake. At this time though, she's not acting like someone that's just trying to milk a gringo but time will tell.

[maritime04]

I was going to comment on this tread about agreeing with the negative vibes Latinas; especially Colombians are subject too from family and friends. It’s not just about money issues, but it will involve your relationship, infidelity, love ect…. About the stupidest thing my girl has heard is “whoever loves looses” ECT… Nobody is going to be shy about giving their opinions or advice. She will hear so much crap from so many different directions it WILL INFLUENCE HER, you can count on that. But if you have a good girl she will communicate these feels and issues with you and you can talk about them.
I will agree with the male macho vibe I am feeling about being the decider, and leading the way but to go so far as call yourself” KING”, you have another thing coming if you expect a Columbiana to take that, I agree with going into a relationship and not accepting an intresada using you as ATM, but definitely not a good game plan to act like your [snip] doesn’t stink!!! Many guys (gringos) do this, but they live in Colombia where they can maintain total control, or they think they do!!!!! These girls are out partying and screwing their local novios, or worse. It’s how things are in Colombia.
Personally I think it’s bad karma to go into a relationship with the “NEXT” attitude, sure she can easily be replaced if she does not conform to your requests, and shows you the slightest bit of wrong attitude, but many of you are hoping to relocate back to the US of A; where the balance of power will shift in her favor, would you like it if after a few years of US living she shows you the same ATTITUDE?  Because let’s face it, she CAN……………………….. Better to be a little more compassionate and understating, look to compromise and communicate, treat people how you want to be treated.
As towards the family depending on you for cash, it’s an issue, most guys want the younger more attractive wife, and let’s be honest those girls will come from more humble backgrounds and be poor, poor families depend on each other to survive, it’s how they live in Colombia. I do not know whether to call it dependency or abuse, but it’s how they make it from day to day. Some see living in the US as an opportunity to better not just their lives but send some money home, I understand and agree with most guys here that everyone should earn their own keep, but let me put it to you this way, would you rather your wife not give a rats ass about her own family? Is that the type of person you want to share your life, better hope your prospects always shine…………………… cause if someone can totally abandon their family what loyalty will they show you?

[JWR]

"This is not Kansas and this is not a fairy tale, and she may be a hot latina princess but you are the f*cking king!"
 
Dang Zulu you write some funny shi#..
 
And be sure to savor, and enjoy this very brief moment in time, unless of course you become an expat.

[z_k_g]

maritime,

I think you are taking my rant out of its proper perspective and you completely missed the point I was trying to make.

I was talking about the absolute beginning of a relationship, that initial period where you are feeling things out and making a decision between various females.

Its not about the "next" attitude.  Its about making choices and eliminating females that don't fit your specific and necessary criteria.

Apply my "risk management" technique on the front end of the relationship.

You are the boss, you make the decisions, "man up" and take care of business.

Make out your wish list and get to work, weed out the bad ones and work on finding the "one". 

At the end of the day that's all that matters.

Zulu

[z_k_g]

"This is not Kansas and this is not a fairy tale, and she may be a hot latina princess but you are the f*cking king!"
 
Dang Zulu you write some funny shi#..
 
And be sure to savor, and enjoy this very brief moment in time, unless of course you become an expat.

JWR,

The idea that somehow a woman, any woman now matter how hot or what country she happens to live in or how she was raised, controls the situation in my house, is simply ludicrous.

Never dude, not in this town.

My mom didn't raise a bitch boy, she raised a man and a leader. 

I am the king of my house, my domain and every woman I have ever dated, befriended, loved or lived with knows this fact.

We have a serious problem with feminists and their man hating agendas and their ultimate goal- destroy manhood.

But, guess what, they are not the most destructive to us.

We men have a problem claiming our right to lead, to be men, to control, to decide, to be kings.   We have even cowered to such a point that we are embarrassed to call ourselves KINGS.  We are our own worst enemy. 

We have given up our birthright, relinquished our proper place on this planet and like a bunch of nutless whimps we now "share" power with our women!   

What a f*cking shame! 

So what kind of men are we, what should we call ourselves in the brave new world of androgynous eqaulness?  Princes?  Dukes? Earls?  Hmmm, no those are too lofty titles, I say we are just plain Bitches.

When I was growing up, my friends and I had no problem calling ourselves kings when we played on the school yard.  Nowadays if a kid even hinted that he was "king of the hill" the entire faculty would gang tackle his little ass and haul him into the principals office and force feed him some mood altering drug to modify his "sick" non PC behavior.

I see the same corrections being applied to grown men, retroactively!  We no longer can brag about anything manly or even hint that we run sh*t at home.   

Such "aggressive" behavior would be instant grounds for a social workers visit to your home to "check" on the kids for signs of abuse, or some woman's advocacy nut case pulling your wife/gf/partner to the side to inquire if you have emotionally, physically or mentally damaged her!

Best to keep your mouth firmly shut because whether you know it or not our courts now have some laws on the book that allow a female to lock you up if just feels threatened! 

So much for due process.

Well, regardless of the political, social, relationship and possible legal ramifications, I think men are the kings and we should not relinquish that title no matter the real or imagined threats imposed.

So.....I will not be coerced, corrected, manipulated in to submission, I will speak my mind, speak the truth.

I will assume my god given role as the leader of my family with no reservations.  I am the final decision maker, I am the decider.  I am also fair, reasonable, caring and loving with my wife and children. 

Like a good general, my wife follows my lead and take care of the house, her domain.  I require an independent strong women who can intelligently take charge of their command under my leadership.  Arm candy-sausage head-mall shopping-baby makers need not apply here!

Most importantly, as with any great leader, I rule with compassion and understanding but embrace my role and have no problem making heads roll at the proper time.

King Solomon said "kindness and faithfulness keep a king safe, through kindness his throne is made secure."

A King is not a dictator a tyrant!  (As the feminists would have you believe)

So....like I said.....

I'm the f*cking King....what are you?

Zulu

[Ray]

 
 
The "f*cking King" on his throne...
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 
 

[JimD]

These girls are out partying and screwing their local novios, or worse. It’s how things are in Colombia. ... and let’s be honest those girls will come from more humble backgrounds and will be poor...

 
Both correct.

[whitey]

 
Both correct.

Sure, there's a lot of that going on ... with women who have nothing else happening in their lives.

If you date a woman from a decent intact family (does not have to be estrato 5 or 6), who is working 5.5 or 6 days per week, and is studying most of the rest of the time, it is VERY unlikely you will have to deal with this behavior.

These women are not mythical.  My wife was like that, her sister is the same, and many of the women in their circles of friends at work and school are the same.

[whitey]

I was going to comment on this tread about agreeing with the negative vibes Latinas; especially Colombians are subject too from family and friends. It’s not just about money issues, but it will involve your relationship, infidelity, love ect…. About the stupidest thing my girl has heard is “whoever loves looses” ECT… Nobody is going to be shy about giving their opinions or advice. She will hear so much crap from so many different directions it WILL INFLUENCE HER, you can count on that. But if you have a good girl she will communicate these feels and issues with you and you can talk about them.
I will agree with the male macho vibe I am feeling about being the decider, and leading the way but to go so far as call yourself” KING”, you have another thing coming if you expect a Columbiana to take that, I agree with going into a relationship and not accepting an intresada using you as ATM, but definitely not a good game plan to act like your [snip] doesn’t stink!!! Many guys (gringos) do this, but they live in Colombia where they can maintain total control, or they think they do!!!!! These girls are out partying and screwing their local novios, or worse. It’s how things are in Colombia.
Personally I think it’s bad karma to go into a relationship with the “NEXT” attitude, sure she can easily be replaced if she does not conform to your requests, and shows you the slightest bit of wrong attitude, but many of you are hoping to relocate back to the US of A; where the balance of power will shift in her favor, would you like it if after a few years of US living she shows you the same ATTITUDE?  Because let’s face it, she CAN……………………….. Better to be a little more compassionate and understating, look to compromise and communicate, treat people how you want to be treated.
As towards the family depending on you for cash, it’s an issue, most guys want the younger more attractive wife, and let’s be honest those girls will come from more humble backgrounds and be poor, poor families depend on each other to survive, it’s how they live in Colombia. I do not know whether to call it dependency or abuse, but it’s how they make it from day to day. Some see living in the US as an opportunity to better not just their lives but send some money home, I understand and agree with most guys here that everyone should earn their own keep, but let me put it to you this way, would you rather your wife not give a rats ass about her own family? Is that the type of person you want to share your life, better hope your prospects always shine…………………… cause if someone can totally abandon their family what loyalty will they show you?

Good advice Maritime ... I agree with everything you are saying.

Maybe it's just semantics, but I think there is a world of difference between being a KING and being a leader.   

On the subject of money for the family, it's very important to have some understanding and respect for the culture and family that produced your novia or wife.  Without that, your odds of a successful long term relationship are greatly diminished.  This is the same culture and family that produced the person you love, admire, and has the characteristics that you are looking for (and presumably cannot easily find in gringolandia).  This is not random - there is a reason she is like that and it is because of her culture and family. 

We in gringolandia value independence and we also have a society and economic system that makes independence possible.  This simply does not exist in most of the world, including Colombia.  Families live together, pool expenses, and rely on each other much more because THEY HAVE TO. 

It is a cultural norm and expectation that the children will contribute to supporting their parents if at all possible.  It can be extremely difficult to find steady work in Colombia after age 40.  There is no pension unless you pay into it.  In most cases, your wife will want to and be expected to contribute to supporting her parents.

My wife and her two sisters all contribute to her parents - in my wife's case it is about $150/month.  I currently don't have to pay anything, but I am prepared to if my wife doesn't find work here within about a year.  If you remove a breadwinner from the family, this is something that you must be prepared to do.

Her parents are not lazy freeloaders by any means.  Her mother takes care of one of the children almost full time, and sells various things through catalogues.  Her father does home reparations and sells cell phone minutes out of the house.  The work is not steady and neither have pensions, so the sisters I'm sure will likely support them the rest of their lives.

This is the culture we are marrying into, and it produced an amazing woman for me and someone impossible to find here in Canada.   

[chameleon]

That's a good attitude.

I guess i'll consider it in more detail if/when the time comes. We'll certainly have to talk about it again. $150/mo is reasonable but i wouldn't be cool with her sending a huge portion of her salary down and it's a bit fuzzy but i think that's the point i put across to her. Maybe i'm selfish but i want to continue to live in relative luxury here as well. One of the reasons i like this girl is her strong work ethic and the knowledge she won't just be a sap on my finances but will contribute.

[Gato4Astrid]

Actually, that makes me think of another story, michelle (the translator) told me a story about a guy that had been dating 2 agency girls that had become friends. When he left he continued communicating with them both, but little did he know that they knew each other from another intro. Eventually everything fell apart as the two girls found out they were talking about the same guy and they both ended it with him. Michelle told me this because i was dating one of the girls and she wanted me to know that she might not be over this guy.

Were these 2 girls from Jamie's?


I know few girls from Jamie's and had them as my facebook friends before I met my ex-novia.  And they have their Facebook friends with other girls from Jamies!!!   When I bought "Who's Interested in Me" from Jamies  (now no longer in use), I could have been like that guy you were talking about !!! 


It is one of the reasons why I don't use Jamie's.

[chameleon]

Were these 2 girls from Jamie's?


I know few girls from Jamie's and had them as my facebook friends before I met my ex-novia.  And they have their Facebook friends with other girls from Jamies!!!   When I bought "Who's Interested in Me" from Jamies  (now no longer in use), I could have been like that guy you were talking about !!! 


It is one of the reasons why I don't use Jamie's.

Don't use facebook and problem solved, or at least mitigated to a certain degree. ;p


I think this guy's problem is he led them both to believe they were the only one and got busted. I know he was saying things to one of the girls that he really shouldn't have been saying if he was continuing to see someone else. Dating a couple girls while figuring things out is fine, but leading them on during that time isn't cool imo.

[JWR]

Zulu, you make some valid points.
 
I have had many friends over the years that have American wives and girlfriends that verbally beat the crap out of them on a regualar basis.  They even humiliate the guys in front of other people.  Never understood why these guys stay with these women other then they are just too afraid of being single again.  I've always kicked those types of women to the curb before things got serious.
 
In the end it comes down to the type of role your wife wants to play in the household, and also if she will continue to agree to play this role over a long period in time.  When you bring a young girl here, she is going to go through many changes.  Of course in the beginning she is going to be more submissive, and let the guy make all the calls.  But over time, a strong women will start to appear that is increasingly independent, may earn money on her own, and may just want an equal role in decision making for the household.  A beautiful young girl in the US earning her own money will really have to be happy in this role you expect her to play, or she will be movin on without you.   
 
You can try to control alot of things in a relationship but controlling how long she stays with you won't be one of them.
 
The influence of American culture on a new young wife over the years will have an influence.  You take your best shot, treat your wife with respect, and compassion, and then hang on for the ride. 

[chameleon]

^^ or you expatriate lol.

[z_k_g]

Maybe it's just semantics, but I think there is a world of difference between being a KING and being a leader.   

Whitey,

Certain words in our American lexicon now have been given very negative connotations, "king" is one of those words.

"King" is bold, abrasive, in your face and archaic....but....its absolute and when its used everyone knows exactly what you mean. (Fems and their metrosexual cohorts absolutely hate the word and seek its complete removal)

I like it and in the context of a family I think its perfect and all MEN need to use it more frequently in that context and live up to all its implications. 

Our sons, nephews and other young men need to hear the word more, not less, in my opinion. 

And don't forget all great Kings have a Queen!

Zulu

[Ray]

　
Some thoughts on sending money home…
　
There is nothing wrong with helping her family back home IF that doesn’t bother you. This topic should be discussed fully and a mutual agreement reached before any marriage takes place.
　
From my experience, there is a dumb way to help her family and a smart way.
　
The dumb way is to promise a monthly amount to send to them. Once you start down that road, there is no turning back without causing a lot of pain and ill will. That monthly stipend essentially makes them your dependents for life. They are likely to plan their lives around that monthly deposit that you are sending.
　
So what happens if you get laid off, have unexpected major expenses in your family, or have your disposable income drastically reduced suddenly? Can her family afford to do without that monthly stipend for 6 months or a couple of years until you can get back on your feet?
　
The smart way to help out IMHO is to send what you can when you can with NO PROMISES ahead of time. Sending something at Christmas time, for birthdays, or when you just feel like it will be appreciated, but they won’t be able to spend it before it arrives because they will have no promise of a monthly amount that you will send. You can be as generous as you wish but leave yourself some options if money becomes tight later on.
　
The goal isn’t to give them an incentive to stop working and sit back waiting for that monthly check, but to help improve their lifestyle a little to make their lives a little more comfortable when you can.
　
What I have found to work well is to set up a separate joint savings account with your wife where either she or both of you can make deposits when you can afford to. You can use this account to fund random gifts to her family, help them if true emergencies arise, or fund your wife’s trips home periodically. You should agree not to make any withdrawals from this account without mutual agreement beforehand. Just don’t let her family know about this account!
　
Ray
　

[vikingo]

You guy's basically covered it, just would like to add, if a girl lost her job while being with you or if she didn't have a job when you started dating her, she is up that famous creek without a paddle.
I know several women in their thirties and fourties who have been handing out job applications for many months and are totally discouraged. Colombian universities, actually colleges by our standards are cranking out tons of licensiadas like preschool teachers, business administrators, health administrators, you name them and most are still trying to find a job. Ift they are in their mid- thirties they are no longer productive, so the saying goes. If they are very attractive and well stacked, job oportunities go up a notch. after all it's a man's world in Latin America, not only in Colombia. Now here is the case of a decent woman losing her job while she is dating a gringo. She is trying to finish her final semester, lives in the boonies, Sabanalarga and the university is half a world away, in the ritzy North of Barranquilla. 10.000 is barely covering her busfares and maybe an arepa or two and a soft drink during her lunch break. Never mind her taking a taxi. BTW, the reason taxi drivers refuse to go to out off the way places is not because they are worried about crime but they most likely will return empty, as there are few passengers in the small towns who will be  taking a taxi to Barranquilla. Her parents are giving her breakfeast und dinner, while they are struggling themselfes, I assume. I think it would be noble to help a woman in a case like this. I know the blackberry story threw a monkey wrench in the scenario, but I guarantee you it wasn't her idea. These colombianas are half woman and half girl and very easily influenced by friends and family members and if they know of someone who receives better treatment then they do, maybe by an other foreigner or a well to do colombiano, they are mighty confused. She would be a walking time bomb though carrying the most expensive cell phone and somebody will rob her off it if she uses it in the streets. might even injure her during the process. You need to be fair but firm and know when to say no. They will respect you if you are careful with your money rather than being a splurge, like ordering an expensive bottle of wine in the restaurant to impress her. Let her know, the money you are saving now will enable the two of you to have a worryfree future, rather then her Colombian peers having to hog their jewelry in a pawnshop, when they are 'mal de plata'.
As far as sending money to her family, each case is different. I the wife or gf has been helping her parents with a monthly amount, you would have to continue the process, I should think.
If not, getting them used to a monthly check is a road of no return, that is a well known fact. They will never understand why the payments stop coming in some day, no matter what your situation is at the time. Save your money to send her home instead on a regular basis, loaded with presents or some cash gifts. She can bring home up to $1500 worth of stuff duty and taxfree, hope that hasn't changed amd your money will be spent wisely. She'll make sure of that.

[maritime04]

We found out just how much Americans liked the word king is 1776……………………………….
Every man is entitled to run his own family how he chooses, with his own best judgment. Whether you are a “benevolent king” or a dictator, or team player your relationship is in your hands.  It’s your life to live, failure or success.
Zulu, I didn’t take your rant out of contents I hear what you are trying to say, I disagree with it and have a different opinion about success in a relationship especially with a Colombian girl, but opinions are like [snip]s, everybody has one and the usually stink. There is no recipe for success, no magic word or trait that can insure happiness.
There’s a great book called “fooled by randomness” , no matter how hard you try there are things you just cannot control or foresee! The book goes more into stock traders but I see allot people here taking random issues and trying to explain them as non-random and controllable.
Quote from: maritime04 on Today at 12:23:09 AM
These girls are out partying and screwing their local novios, or worse. It’s how things are in Colombia. ... and let’s be honest those girls will come from more humble backgrounds and will be poor...

This is a HUGE ERROR!!!!!! Don’t be fooled that type of behavior is seen IN ANY ESTRATO, anybody who has spent some time in Colombia and lived the “player lifestyle” can tell you this!
There are good women everywhere, use your own judgment. I was using this to explain that even the guys who live full time in Colombia with all the money in the world will have to deal with cheaters and women playing them……………………………………………especially if they go after younger women who obliviously have no interest in them. These guys often PLAY THE KING, but more often they are simply the FOOL!!! That’s one of the things I like about Colombia, its random and uncontrollable.