helping out... the money issue

[opusone]

 
How True
 
  LMFAO !!!!!!!!!
 
KB

I will always maintain that a Colombian woman, or any other woman , is no different from an American woman , IF YOU GET THE WRONG ONE!

[Researcher]

Recently a girl I was chatting with asked me to buy a coffin for her dead sister that just happened to die while we were chatting.....nice try.

  Out of all the scammer stories I have ever heard this one ranks in the top 5 of the "Taking the Cake" category!!!

 

      Researcher

[opusone]

  Out of all the scammer stories I have ever heard this one ranks in the top 5 of the "Taking the Cake" category!!!

 

      Researcher

It reminds me of an employee that wanted off of work and forgot about the excuse he gave you just yesterday.

[Gato4Astrid]

1st her phone got damaged by the little girl and she couldn't text me anymore.

Even if it is true, so why should you buy her a new phone when it wasn't your fault.  She had very poor discipline towards her daughter and she didn't even look after her phone! 

[Gato4Astrid]

Recently a girl I was chatting with asked me to buy a coffin for her dead sister that just happened to die while we were chatting.....nice try.

Well, these days all vampires need new coffins 

[fathertime]

   

The key is to (and I know this is opposite in AM and as we are raised to be "gentleman") HAVE STRINGS ATTACHED TO EVERY ACT of generosity until real trust can be verified or created - and that takes years, not weeks.

That is a load of horsecrap!   


  I don’t know many self-respecting women that would accept a strict quid pro quo for a period of years, while a man is supposed to be evaluating ‘trust’.  There is nothing romantic or charming about this sort of relationship, and I'm still convinced that is a PART of this whole equation.  There are levels of trust gained over time, but that does not mean attaching strings to acts of generosity is the universal path to relationship nirvana.   It just makes a man the stereotypical ‘suspicious gringo’ who is using his wallet to wield control and it raises the odds of dooming a relationship that could have been good.


A little suspicion is perhaps warranted when things are getting started, but who the hell wants to live that way for years?  Looking at things from the angle of 'is she trying to take advantage of me', for years just seems like a screwed up way to look at things! At least this is how I see it. 


Fathertime!

[opusone]

That is a load of horsecrap!   


  I don’t know many self-respecting women that would accept a strict quid pro quo for a period of years, while a man is supposed to be evaluating ‘trust’.  There is nothing romantic or charming about this sort of relationship, and I'm still convinced that is a PART of this whole equation.  There are levels of trust gained over time, but that does not mean attaching strings to acts of generosity is the universal path to relationship nirvana.   It just makes a man the stereotypical ‘suspicious gringo’ who is using his wallet to wield control and it raises the odds of dooming a relationship that could have been good.


A little suspicion is perhaps warranted when things are getting started, but who the hell wants to live that way for years?  Looking at things from the angle of 'is she trying to take advantage of me', for years just seems like a screwed up way to look at things! At least this is how I see it. 


Fathertime!

Imagine that, years. Only a dummy would wait years to  figure out if she is the "one". This is not a "small business" solution,with graphs, charts, and projections, this is real life. What you see is what you get, and it won't change, years ,after the fact.

[fathertime]

Imagine that, years. Only a dummy would wait years to  figure out if she is the "one". This is not a "small business" solution,with graphs, charts, and projections, this is real life. What you see is what you get, and it won't change, years ,after the fact.

I hear ya OP, and I think it is each man’s decision to take years/months/weeks/decades if that is what a man feels he really needs.  For me, I didn’t want to take years in part because I felt the law of diminishing returns was at play, it would cost me more and more (in time) and the new information to be gleaned was going to be less and less. A willingness to say ‘what the fook’ is sometimes necessary in life! jajaja   


My issue was more with zon’s statement about ‘having strings attached to every act of generosity’ over a period of years.  I have a hard time relating to this type of thinking. 


Fathertime! 

[Zon]

At least now we can exchange views on an issue!  Bueno

I should not have said YEARS, as if it would take everybody years.  That is inaccurate.  But it does take longer than a holiday weekend, which is about the timeframe most men have before they begin to manage these situations. 

It could be said, that I don't know of any self respecting woman who would:
- asks for a financial favor of ANY kind within the first days, weeks of a relationship
- be one of 200 women to attend a social with 10 - 20 gringos for the purpose of marriage.
yet, we know that there are good women that do both, and they do so often ... some have for years.

I tend to be rather generous and a soft grader with women and friends, financially.   I have noticed that the more i allow myself to be taken advantage of, the more taken advantage of I become.   Not by bad people in unethical ways, incidentally.  It is a soft presumption that begins to occur.  I am the one who picks up the check when everybody else magically went to the bathroom at the same time.  Or, I loan somebody a couple hundred bucks (they have the best INTENTIONS - but, follow through is a bitch in Colombia)

I have LEARNED to highlight what I am doing and draw boundaries, and be rather direct about my expectations in return.   This is the strings attached I was referring to.  I am always a gentlemen (by my standards    So, do not get the idea that these words require rudeness.  Rather firmness.

I had a little white dog 8 years ago, and I loved him dearly.  If I had eggs in the morning, he had eggs in the morning.  If I ate a steak, he ate a steak.  I LOVED HIM.  Then, one day I was taking a walk with my little dog, he looked up and pissed on my shoe.  I should have been more firm, and drawn better boundaries.   I know this sounds terrible, but I have come to learn that the same characteristics of being a good dog owner qualify one to best manage a romantic relationship with a Latina.

NOW BEFORE you guys hit the roof.  I am not saying that women are dogs!  I am saying one has to be responsible, firm, consistent, and pay attention to the small details of behavior for best control. There HAS TO BE constant measurement, instruction (communication) and correction until the desired roles are established.

Maybe it is time for me to write and sell an E-book?  ( estoy bromiando )

[Big_Al]

I guess if a latina ever pisses on my shoe I should hit her on the nose with a rolled up newspaper.

 

[benjio]

These days when I run across the gold diggers, I tell them I'm going to send the money immediately after the first time they ask for something. I've gone as far as sending a fake Western Union MTCN. I want them to waste more money going to pick up the wire transfer. I'll even say I sent a little extra so they can take a taxi. That way they're always in a worse position than they were before they asked me.

[Gato4Astrid]

These days when I run across the gold diggers, I tell them I'm going to send the money immediately after the first time they ask for something. I've gone as far as sending a fake Western Union MTCN. I want them to waste more money going to pick up the wire transfer. I'll even say I sent a little extra so they can take a taxi. That way they're always in a worse position than they were before they asked me.

I did it on many occasions lol

[fathertime]

 

At least now we can exchange views on an issue!  Bueno

I should not have said YEARS, as if it would take everybody years.  That is inaccurate.  But it does take longer than a holiday weekend, which is about the timeframe most men have before they begin to manage these situations. 

 

Yes when you said years that was inaccurate.  It is also inaccurate to say for MOST guys it is a holiday weekend (3 days).  Most guys take a little longer than that.  Most guys fall somewhere in the middle with some on both ends of the extremes. 

I have LEARNED to highlight what I am doing and draw boundaries, and be rather direct about my expectations in return.   This is the strings attached I was referring to.  I am always a gentlemen (by my standards    So, do not get the idea that these words require rudeness.  Rather firmness.

Hey Zon!


Your posts continue to make me think:  What the hell is he thinking? Jajaj
Allow me to  challenge a few of your thoughts/assertions:




You highlight when you do something?  Really, is that necessary? How do you do this?  I’m imagining a conversation going something like this:


Zon:  I want to remind you that I’ve graciously loaned you 75 dollars and now I expect you to come by and buff my toenails 2 twice a week until the debt is paid.
Marisol:  Yes Sir!
Zon:  I expect the money to be repaid in full one month from now, by November 9th.   
Marisol:  Yes Sir!


So if this conversation is inaccurate what is accurate?  How do you highlight and draw boundaries? 
I’m also confused why these types of loans are occurring in the first place.  How about a blanket policy of “I don’t make loans, I’m not a bank” all requests are rebuffed with that statement and then only women who are less interested in your cash will hang around.  Why encourage ladies that are already trying to get in your pocketbook?  If it were me, I think I would be more interested in finding 1 good woman rather than a bunch of beggars and hangers on?

I had a little white dog 8 years ago, and I loved him dearly.  If I had eggs in the morning, he had eggs in the morning.  If I ate a steak, he ate a steak.  I LOVED HIM.  Then, one day I was taking a walk with my little dog, he looked up and pissed on my shoe.  I should have been more firm, and drawn better boundaries.   I know this sounds terrible, but I have come to learn that the same characteristics of being a good dog owner qualify one to best manage a romantic relationship with a Latina.

NOW BEFORE you guys hit the roof.  I am not saying that women are dogs!  I am saying one has to be responsible, firm, consistent, and pay attention to the small details of behavior for best control. There HAS TO BE constant measurement, instruction (communication) and correction until the desired roles are established.
 

It is entertaining that the little white dog made Peepee on your loafers.  I have a blue tongued Chow dog here, he follows me around like a puppy dog and sometimes licks my feet, and seems to like me well enough.  I can't get inside his head, but based on what I've seen he wouldn't EVEN THINK of pissing on my boots.  You must be doing something wrong for your dog to feel entitled to make peepee on you like this.  Ditto for your encounters with the Latinas if you feel they are figuratively pissing on your Birkenstocks.   






I'm just giving you sheet Zon!
Fathertime!

[opusone]

These days when I run across the gold diggers, I tell them I'm going to send the money immediately after the first time they ask for something. I've gone as far as sending a fake Western Union MTCN. I want them to waste more money going to pick up the wire transfer. I'll even say I sent a little extra so they can take a taxi. That way they're always in a worse position than they were before they asked me.

That's hilarious. I can imagine her getting all dolled up, then telling her friends , the taxi driver , family, about extra cash she will be receiving, then heading off to W.U. to find out she has to eat crow.  Poor thing .I bet you are a wanted man in these parts.lol

[Zon]

First off, I do not wear birks - I think they are gay:)

FT #1 = "It is also inaccurate to say for MOST guys it is a holiday weekend (3 days).  Most guys take a little longer than that"

Well, I don't know.  The point I was making is that it TAKES longer than most guys think.  Hell, I know a handful of guys who say they had a "novia" before even meeting the girl in person.  What is the average time a man spends with a women BEFORE he proposes marriage using agencies?  20 - 30 full, real, one on one physical days? 

FT#2 = "So if this conversation is inaccurate what is accurate?  How do you highlight and draw boundaries? "

Emphasizing that you are paying for something for a specific outcome, or reason .... and if that specific outcome or reason is not satisfied, calling a person out on the issue.  Stating your disapproval (as you would do in business).  Is what I was talking about.  There are many ways in the course of human communication a person can tell another "I paid for this, for this reason ... do not take advantage.  Do not allow your family or friends to take advantage."  Being a tough grader is what I am talking about.

FT #3 = "I’m also confused why these types of loans are occurring in the first place.  How about a blanket policy of “I don’t make loans, I’m not a bank” all requests are rebuffed with that statement and then only women who are less interested in your cash will hang around."  Well that would be using a bomb when only a knife is necessary.

The fact of the matter is that when you visit or live in Colombia, you are likely to meet many people who are NOT in the same economic situation as you.  So, you either have to talk to them only in the halls/ public venues ... and not allow them, or their friends/family to follow you in the store, cine, restaurant, or bar.   OR, go to THEIR clubs, billiard halls, restaurants, and operate in coinage looking for everyone to split - Even Stephen. 

One of the reasons I go to Colombia is to ENJOY life.  Admission to an expensive club is 20 mill - 10 bucks (big deal).  A bottle of Ron in a club is 85 - 125 mil  - again, I would not want those things to hold up a night.   So, living life I do naturally become the bank to those that really cant afford it.   If that was left to run wild, I would be a big, stupid pinata.

And, importantly, my comments apply to not only ladies, but men too - and their friends and family.  ( My perspective is from living there 50% of the time, not going for the express reason of finding a wife.  If that were the case, my entire orientation would be different)

====

Opusone "That's hilarious. I can imagine her getting all dolled up, then telling her friends , the taxi driver , family, about extra cash she will be receiving, then heading off to W.U. to find out she has to eat crow. Poor thing .I bet you are a wanted man in these parts.lol"

Actually, I do not find this funny.  Often times women do things for a reason, not sport (and I am fully aware that there are exceptions, of course).  But, I also think of likely real world situations ... no food in the refrigerator and a baby or two that needs milk.  It is not TOO difficult to understand how the lens of life changes under these circumstances.

[AndyLee]

oh crap, here's another thread with FT and Zon picking each other apart nuance by nuance. Wake me when there's something worth reading here.

[opusone]

====

Opusone "That's hilarious. I can imagine her getting all dolled up, then telling her friends , the taxi driver , family, about extra cash she will be receiving, then heading off to W.U. to find out she has to eat crow. Poor thing .I bet you are a wanted man in these parts.lol"

Actually, I do not find this funny.  Often times women do things for a reason, not sport (and I am fully aware that there are exceptions, of course).  But, I also think of likely real world situations ... no food in the refrigerator and a baby or two that needs milk.  It is not TOO difficult to understand how the lens of life changes under these circumstances.

Get a grip , Zon.  Benjio said gold digger, not some hardworking , loving  woman who is sincerely trying to bette her life, without self gratification being the motive. You should read the post prior to posting something.

[fathertime]

oh crap, here's another thread with FT and Zon picking each other apart nuance by nuance. Wake me when there's something worth reading here.

 Hold Steady andylee!


 In case you didn’t notice it there was a lot of good info that came out!  Zon has clarified his original outrageous statement and his follow-up esoteric ones into something more sensible and we both agree about Birks.




Fathertime!

[Zon]

yeah, Andy ... there is a new atmosphere of love here.  Sorta like Woodstock.

OPU - "Benjio said gold digger, not some hardworking , loving  woman who is sincerely trying to bette her life, without self gratification being the motive. You should read the post prior to posting something."

HAHAHA   Do you think this is a game of "shirts and skins" - you can't tell people apart that easily! Especially in the time frames and through the communication venues most often used here ...  One person's gold digger is another person's sincere loving woman hoping to better herself, without self gratification."

[opusone]

yeah, Andy ... there is a new atmosphere of love here.  Sorta like Woodstock.

OPU - "Benjio said gold digger, not some hardworking , loving  woman who is sincerely trying to bette her life, without self gratification being the motive. You should read the post prior to posting something."

HAHAHA   Do you think this is a game of "shirts and skins" - you can't tell people apart that easily! Especially in the time frames and through the communication venues most often used here ...  One person's gold digger is another person's sincere loving woman hoping to better herself, without self gratification."

K. You can ask him to explain it. I can't argue another person's point. I understood what he meant though.

[benjio]

Send a girl a message on Colombian Cupid, she responds, communicate with her for about a week or two, she lays the sick grandma story on me....girls like that are getting a ticket to the "Useless Trip to Wesrern Union" Show. I think I have enough experience dealing with Latinas SOTB to know when one's trying to scam me. If there's any collateral damage in the mean time...[snip] 'em. They shouldn't be asking gringos they hardly know for financial favors. The most insulting thing is these requests are ALWAYS presented as temporary loans, which is within itself deceitful.

[Zon]

Benijo - AGREED!  "Send a girl a message on Colombian Cupid, she responds, communicate with her for about a week or two, she lays the sick grandma story on me....girls like that are getting a ticket to the "Useless Trip to Wesrern Union" Show.  AGREED ABSOLUTELY

Personally, I think CC is 85% a waste of time because of this type of thing - ESPECIALLY IN MEDELLIN.  When I lived in Medellin, I met a ton of girls via CC, I agreed to pay for taxi, we went out to diner or for some drinks ... a little funl; NEXT.   One time, a girl showed up at Dominos on Calle 10 (my apartment was across the street 3 rd floor, so I was able to get a visual on the situation before walking into WHATEVER) she had a different name and the photo on CC was not even hers! 

Often times a girl would bring a friend ... Bla Bla Bla

Yes, there are a ton of gamers in Medellin TONS.  BTW - just got an email of mine that was drugged and robbed in Parque Llares on Friday night, he just woke up this morning.  It happens ALL the time.   

The gamesmanship drops of big time when you get out of Medellin - in my opinion.

[Gato4Astrid]

Benijo - AGREED!  "Send a girl a message on Colombian Cupid, she responds, communicate with her for about a week or two, she lays the sick grandma story on me....girls like that are getting a ticket to the "Useless Trip to Wesrern Union" Show.  AGREED ABSOLUTELY

Personally, I think CC is 85% a waste of time because of this type of thing - ESPECIALLY IN MEDELLIN.  When I lived in Medellin, I met a ton of girls via CC, I agreed to pay for taxi, we went out to diner or for some drinks ... a little funl; NEXT.   One time, a girl showed up at Dominos on Calle 10 (my apartment was across the street 3 rd floor, so I was able to get a visual on the situation before walking into WHATEVER) she had a different name and the photo on CC was not even hers! 

Often times a girl would bring a friend ... Bla Bla Bla

Yes, there are a ton of gamers in Medellin TONS.  BTW - just got an email of mine that was drugged and robbed in Parque Llares on Friday night, he just woke up this morning.  It happens ALL the time.   

The gamesmanship drops of big time when you get out of Medellin - in my opinion.

What do you expect?  All these guys were looking for hottest chicas!!!

[Micky]

Nice to know PL has turned into a love fest.
 
This is what I know.  NO self respecting,  decent Latina would ask for money from any man that was not family,  esposa,  novio,  period.  At the very begining,  BEFORE the relationship really starts to develope, a women asking a man for money is a women asking to be dumped like a load of bad asphalt.
 
Micky

[chameleon]

At least now we can exchange views on an issue!  Bueno

I should not have said YEARS, as if it would take everybody years.  That is inaccurate.  But it does take longer than a holiday weekend, which is about the timeframe most men have before they begin to manage these situations. 

It could be said, that I don't know of any self respecting woman who would:
- asks for a financial favor of ANY kind within the first days, weeks of a relationship
- be one of 200 women to attend a social with 10 - 20 gringos for the purpose of marriage.
yet, we know that there are good women that do both, and they do so often ... some have for years.

I tend to be rather generous and a soft grader with women and friends, financially.   I have noticed that the more i allow myself to be taken advantage of, the more taken advantage of I become.   Not by bad people in unethical ways, incidentally.  It is a soft presumption that begins to occur.  I am the one who picks up the check when everybody else magically went to the bathroom at the same time.  Or, I loan somebody a couple hundred bucks (they have the best INTENTIONS - but, follow through is a bitch in Colombia)

I have LEARNED to highlight what I am doing and draw boundaries, and be rather direct about my expectations in return.   This is the strings attached I was referring to.  I am always a gentlemen (by my standards    So, do not get the idea that these words require rudeness.  Rather firmness.

I had a little white dog 8 years ago, and I loved him dearly.  If I had eggs in the morning, he had eggs in the morning.  If I ate a steak, he ate a steak.  I LOVED HIM.  Then, one day I was taking a walk with my little dog, he looked up and pissed on my shoe.  I should have been more firm, and drawn better boundaries.   I know this sounds terrible, but I have come to learn that the same characteristics of being a good dog owner qualify one to best manage a romantic relationship with a Latina.

NOW BEFORE you guys hit the roof.  I am not saying that women are dogs!  I am saying one has to be responsible, firm, consistent, and pay attention to the small details of behavior for best control. There HAS TO BE constant measurement, instruction (communication) and correction until the desired roles are established.

Maybe it is time for me to write and sell an E-book?  ( estoy bromiando )

I think we're of the same mind on this. I have no interest in being super stingy but nobody wants to be a sucker. Some of these women come from very meager economic circumstances and depending on their circumstances that can influence their behavior. Making large generalizations about what's acceptable behavior regarding money when I'm guessing a good number of us have had much more opportunity available to us and are making six figures and leading very comfortable lives is a bit disingenuous. Go watch Trading Places for a hilarious take on this subject (It's got Eddie Murphy in his prime and Dan Akroyd is fantastic in it).


I make in a day what she makes (or made) in a month and as I develop stronger feelings for the girl i want to help her more, but I limit my help because I think you're dead on that there's a certain amount of conditioning that takes place early in a relationship and that's why i'm so apprehensive about helping financially. I don't want to marry someone that's always going to be spending money or is completely careless with or feels entitled to my hard-earned money and I certainly don't want money to be the basis of the relationship.


For anyone that's curious how this all turned out, I feel a lot better about things now. What bothered me initially was a perception on my part that she seemed too interested in material things. Like all women, she likes shoes, clothes and purses and i think in some cases I was being hyper-sensitive to this and over-analyzing her behavior. In other cases she seemed to be stopping short of outright asking for something but I put a stop to it regardless. This had happened 3 times since I met her. The first time i ignored it and on the 2nd and 3rd time i told her no. I'm not counting the university that i paid for because that was something i insisted on. She'd just lost her job and wouldn't have finished in time for my next trip if i didn't pay it. We were officially bf/gf by then. 


The last thing she asked for was a blackberry because she broke her phone. I told her no and that although it may seem to her that i had lots of money that i was pretty average (a lie) by north america standards and that there had to be limits on my spending. I told her that I didn't mind helping with school, or internet (works out a lot cheaper for me than calling), but only because those things served a positive purpose. The first was her education and the second was so that we could talk and i could keep my phone bills down. She apologized over and over again to me and told me that she felt terrible. Now that she seems to have gotten the point now and as she hasn't asked for anything since then, a big impediment has been removed from my ability to develop feelings for her.


At the time I had left colombia, I felt very good about her in a cerebral kind of way. This is normal for me as I never fall for a woman right away because I'm often too analytic for my own good. I tend to notice every flaw at the beginning but if they are minor they will recede into the background over time allowing feelings to develop. By the time I left I felt that our personalities were very compatible, we wanted similar things out of life, same number of children and how to raise them, she doesn't mind moving for my career, etc. She exhibited some very positive traits (beyond the physical), that i didn't find in too many women down there, in that she's a woman that's worked hard since she was left on her own as a teen. She didn't' have anything handed to her and went to school largely on her own dime (she borrowed some). She'll be done school next month and hasn't made any majorly bad decisions in her life (never gotten pregnant and not too many BFs, doesn't  party/drink/do drugs). Again, while the degree is useless here I view it as a sign of maturity and dedication to finishing something. I've seen her with kids and she seems very patient. She was patient with me last saturday when skype got interrupted by work and i left her hanging for 30-45minutes. She stays up talking to me until she falls asleep every night she can, including fridays and weekends.


Obviously, she could do something that would cause my previous concerns to resurface, but so far, she seems happier, talks to me as often as she can, and she laughs/smiles a lot more now that some of her troubles are gone. A big part of that is also that her grandmother finally died so it's not a constant preoccupation on her energy/mood. And no, I didn't get hit up for anything prior to her death or after it, which a cynical person may have assumed some of the grandmother tales were leading up to.