Female Character - Colombiana Style

[Zon]

Let's look under the covers and try to have a frank, unvarnished dialogue about the character of Colombian women. Many of the these characteristics are obviously generalizations, but I am hoping to hear real stories about how some have successfully managed these tendencies / inadequacies. 

The lying and two faceness kills me.   Obviously, there are small lies of all kinds, but there is big stuff too!  This behavior is hard to explain. I have a firend ( good guy, young, nice looking), who was dating an outstanding Paisa (31 with child and owns her own business). She treated him like gold for 1.5 years ... then, all of a sudden, zero!  no return calls.  no return emails.  ZERO.

My old girl friend was soooo calm and caring and loving ... but when she got pissed, I could see she was prone to argumentation like playing "chicken" mutually assured distruction.  When some things are said, they reveal inner thoughts, and that was over.

Colombians "live in the moment", and as a result seem to not have a forever view of commitment in a relationship.

Cheating - having affairs / or flings - is pretty common.   Sex is seen as a very private and passing thing - no harm, no foul.

A Colombiana's relationship with her mother is special.  If mom loves you, the daughter has not choice.

Can a pregago / web cam girl make a good novia wife?  Hell, I don't know!  sometimes I think the entire country - EVERY WOMAN is a prepago / web cam girl in some regard, to some degree.  (look at the way a young attractive girl walks by a group of policemen in a dark secluded area ... hmmm suspicious; I think compromise is a part of this life for an attractive woman from a very early age)

In the end, it seems that an AM needs to act a lot more like a latino than gringo to secure and manage a relationship with a Colombiana.  That means draw out the rules, and be a tough grader ALL the time.

[AndyLee]

I agree with your observations Zon. Here are some of my thoughts......


Over 3 years I have had 7 Colombian girlfriends, ranging from 1 week to 3 months. I have had first or second dates with another half dozen and a LOT of IMs and video chats. Now I am engaged to a Colombiana for 5 months. All of them have told lies ranging from tiny little white lies up to major deceptions.
Does this mean ALL Colombian women are liars? No, the survey sample is totally too small, but it does seem that many other men on this forum and other forums have complained about the lying problem.

Conversely, do American Women tell lies? Yes, without question.
Do American men tell lies? Yep, no doubt about it.
All we can do is keep an open mind and be aware that what they say may be true or maybe not. I've learned to go with the flow and not get too uptight about it unless it's a deal breaker, then I just go on to NEXT.


Here's an example of a deal breaker that happened to a fellow in Costa Rica. For a year he was living with a Tica and sharing expenses of the apartment and food, etc. One month she said her employer didn't meet payroll, then another month, and another. It stretched into 8 months and this man got suspicious and investigated only to find out the woman had been sending her pay to her son and daughter in law in the US, both of whom had suddenly became unemployed. When I heard this story I thought of the Tica  as an embezzler, where the first month was only a sort of big white lie but it led to a second and it kept spiraling into a major deception.

[Zon]

Here is an example.  A guy in Medellin is happily married for 3 years and has a son.  The son, at age three, just does not look like the father OR the mother.  DNA tests follow.  The husband / dad was not the REAL father.   (there are other examples of this)

AGAIN, not to be a gringo in behavior, or have an egalitarian / protestant style relationship with the woman .....

I have a 28 year old associate from Venezuela.  He is the prototypical Latino with his wife - SHE IS 100% ON LOCK DOWN AT ALL TIMES.  She seems happy.  He is in Control.  No Doubt.

I have another friend, a Colombian guy, 47 dating / married to a 25 year old Colombiana for 3 years.   For the first year, there were little fights and arguments that always ended by my friend firing his girl friend and the girl fighting for him to take her back.  She knows HE can have another girl easier than she can find a responsible man.  Thus, they are now happy and stable.

======

Also, have you noticed that the more demanding and engaged you are, the more compliant the female is?    I do not like this nail polish color change it.   I prefer for you to wear those shoes.   We are going to X, Y Z.   Why are you 5 minutes late?

[fathertime]

The lying and two faceness kills me.   Obviously, there are small lies of all kinds, but there is big stuff too!  This behavior is hard to explain. I have a firend ( good guy, young, nice looking), who was dating an outstanding Paisa (31 with child and owns her own business). She treated him like gold for 1.5 years ... then, all of a sudden, zero!  no return calls.  no return emails.  ZERO.

 

So she wanted a clean break.  I don't see this as lying or two faced.  Maybe the guy wasn't such a good guy and she didn't want the confrontation in any way.  There has to be much better examples of lying or being 2 faced. 


 

 

 

A Colombiana's relationship with her mother is special.  If mom loves you, the daughter has not choice.
 

Agree here, it is important to be liked by other family members, especially mother.




 
 

My old girl friend was soooo calm and caring and loving ... but when she got pissed, I could see she was prone to argumentation like playing "chicken" mutually assured distruction.  When some things are said, they reveal inner thoughts, and that was over.

 
So she was prone to argumentation when she was angry.  I think that describes most people!  Forgive and forget is easy for me, practice it.

Can a pregago / web cam girl make a good novia wife?  Hell, I don't know!  sometimes I think the entire country - EVERY WOMAN is a prepago / web cam girl in some regard, to some degree.  (look at the way a young attractive girl walks by a group of policemen in a dark secluded area ... hmmm suspicious; I think compromise is a part of this life for an attractive woman from a very early age)
 

I don't understand what the hell you are saying here!   So there is a group of policemen om a darl secluded alley and a young girl walks by.  How does she act?  I would think she would be a little nervous and so would I.  What do you mean by 'compromise is a part of life' in this situation.

Here is an example.  A guy in Medellin is happily married for 3 years and has a son.  The son, at age three, just does not look like the father OR the mother.  DNA tests follow.  The husband / dad was not the REAL father.   (there are other examples of this)

If there was ANY doubt, he should have done the paternity test sooner, because this is a deal breaker from my perspective.   


Fathertime!

[Zon]

sorry for the not being absolutely clear ---  Often times women are scarred of men - even police - because they commonly take advantage of them.  (have forced sex0

This goes to the point that many Colombianas have a very very difficult time trusting men.

[AndyLee]

sorry for the not being absolutely clear ---  Often times women are scarred of men - even police - because they commonly take advantage of them.  (have forced sex0

This goes to the point that many Colombianas have a very very difficult time trusting men.

Yes, it begins at an early age. I have a Latina friend who's had severe problems with her ex husband (he tried to kill her with a machete).
The woman's nine year old daughter told me she would never marry a Colombian man. She later told me that if a Colombian man swallowed a fly he would have more brains in his stomach than in his head.

[Researcher]

  Hehehe! That's a good one AndyLee!

    My experience with women in general is they don't like a guy to be a wimp, not even to her.The more secure you are with yourself the better you can do in a relationship.Since I got married I haven't had to modify my behavior  toward my wife simply because she is a Colombiana.She respects the fact that I am my own man and don't take any crap and she likes the fact that I am not abusive.

     I have found that AWs appreciated that also.

      Researcher

[Traveler]

First of all, about acting more like a Colombian male when in a relationship with a CW, yes, absolutely.  I have touched on this recently myself.  It's in fact necessary to learn the positive macho traits, and apply them in your relationship.  Not only those traits I believe are universally attractive to women, colombianas are used to them, and they are expected culturally. 
 
Well, lying, yes, it does take place.  And they are non-confrontational.  I think it's based on fear.  Unlike boys, upbringing of girls is usually a lot stricter, and people with very strict upbringing are more likely to be non-confrontational or liars in my experience.  Also, many women in Latin America have fear of men beating them or raping them, either from personal experience or experience of close friends or relatives.  These two fears combine to produce a person who is more likely to lie than someone who will be an honest Abe.  I am sure there are 100% honest women in Colombia, but they are not very common.
 
As for having a child from one guy and telling a different guy that it's his, well, I don't think this behavior is limited to colombianas.  But there is a cumbia song touching the subject, and I know of two guys to whom this has happened, so it must be a relatively frequent occurrance.  As Reagan used to say, trust but verify  .  In all honesty, given the genetics of general population, if a white guy has a kid with a Hispanic woman, the kid will usually look Hispanic.  In the reverse, the kid will usually look white.

[Researcher]

First of all, about acting more like a Colombian male when in a relationship with a CW, yes, absolutely.  I have touched on this recently myself.  It's in fact necessary to learn the positive macho traits, and apply them in your relationship.  Not only those traits I believe are universally attractive to women, colombianas are used to them, and they are expected culturally. 
 
Well, lying, yes, it does take place.  And they are non-confrontational.  I think it's based on fear.  Unlike boys, upbringing of girls is usually a lot stricter, and people with very strict upbringing are more likely to be non-confrontational or liars in my experience.  Also, many women in Latin America have fear of men beating them or raping them, either from personal experience or experience of close friends or relatives.  These two fears combine to produce a person who is more likely to lie than someone who will be an honest Abe.  I am sure there are 100% honest women in Colombia, but they are not very common.
 
As for having a child from one guy and telling a different guy that it's his, well, I don't think this behavior is limited to colombianas.  But there is a cumbia song touching the subject, and I know of two guys to whom this has happened, so it must be a relatively frequent occurrance.  As Reagan used to say, trust but verify  .  In all honesty, given the genetics of general population, if a white guy has a kid with a Hispanic woman, the kid will usually look Hispanic.  In the reverse, the kid will usually look white.

        I think I know the cumbia song you are talking about. I agree that this situation isn't limited to Colombia. It happens here in the US as well.Remember the song "Billy Jean" by Michael Jackson?
   
    Mama's baby, Daddy's maybe is nothing new.   

       Researcher

[benjio]

I obviously have no proof of this, but from my experience the high percentage of Latina women I know from Latin America that have been molested in their youth is astounding!!!
 
Off the top of my head, I'd say more than half of the girls I know in or from Latin America that are very close friends have admitted to me they were sexually abused by a family member when they were young. From what they've told me a significant number of their friends have as well and it is very common. I think this goes to Zon's point about women being forced to have sex. Because of the male dominant culture in that part of the world and the embarrassment that comes along with a girl admitting what's happen to her, this attrocity happens all to often without being reported. Luisa, the little girl from El Bosque in Barranquilla I've mentioned in other threads has been molested on numerous occasions and she isn't even a teenager yet.
 
Traumatizing experiences like this do nothing but demean a Latinas faith in men and makes them a lot more likely to have self-worth and self-esteem issues when they get older. Another side effect is them placing little or no value on relationships with men once they get older; or choosing the wrong men because of emotional issues they haven't dealt with.

[Researcher]

     It's not just Colombia but other countries like Colombia also that have these kinds of issues.I have read it is a problem in Peru as well as Thialand. This isn't a problem that is unique to Colombia.

      Researcher

[fathertime]

F    .  In all honesty, given the genetics of general population, if a white guy has a kid with a Hispanic woman, the kid will usually look Hispanic.  In the reverse, the kid will usually look white.

Hey Traveler!


Science and the laws of genetics won't agree with what you said, but I'm curious what you are basing this assertion on.


Certain traits are dominant and have a higher probability of being expressed, that is independent of whether the carrier is a male or female.
Fathertime! 

[fathertime]

Can a pregago / web cam girl make a good novia wife?  Hell, I don't know!  sometimes I think the entire country - EVERY WOMAN is a prepago / web cam girl in some regard, to some degree.  (look at the way a young attractive girl walks by a group of policemen in a dark secluded area ... hmmm suspicious; I think compromise is a part of this life for an attractive woman from a very early age)

 

Can you clarify the highlighted part of this quote of yours?


With the TO SOME DEGREE thrown in there it could mean practically anything.


  I could say that all humans are sensitive to light, TO SOME DEGREE. All women are feminine TO SOME DEGREE.  etc etc.


Fatehrtime! 

[Zon]

FT = " sometimes I think the entire country - EVERY WOMAN is a prepago / web cam girl in some regard, to some degree. "
More to the point is that there is much damage and distrust to negotiate than meets the eye.

[Fuzzyone]

FT = " sometimes I think the entire country - EVERY WOMAN is a prepago / web cam girl in some regard, to some degree. "
More to the point is that there is much damage and distrust to negotiate than meets the eye.

   Kind of a general statement?

[fathertime]

FT = " sometimes I think the entire country - EVERY WOMAN is a prepago / web cam girl in some regard, to some degree. "
More to the point is that there is much damage and distrust to negotiate than meets the eye.

I don’t disagree with your point about damage/distrust in many women. 

 

 
 
 

Can a pregago / web cam girl make a good novia wife?  Hell, I don't know!  sometimes I think the entire country - EVERY WOMAN is a prepago / web cam girl in some regard, to some degree.

I do disagree with your comment in order to get to this  point that has now come out.  I was giving you an opportunity to clarify or even admit that you were saying it strictly for effect.


 If you actually are believing what you said about all the Colombian ladies being webcam/prostitutes then…..well, I’ll wait to get your explanation for such an outlandish comment.  I wouldn’t want  Robertangel to have another anger attack    if I start making criticisms without giving you fair chance to explain it. 




Fathertime! 

[Researcher]

FT = " sometimes I think the entire country - EVERY WOMAN is a prepago / web cam girl in some regard, to some degree. "
More to the point is that there is much damage and distrust to negotiate than meets the eye.

    That is kind of a vague statement but I think what Zon means is that Colombianas are more than likely to experience trauma than AWs which AMs aren't accustomed to dealing with.Am I close?

   I am only taking a stab at clarification.I don't want to anger the Angel!   

     Researcher

[Fuzzyone]

    That is kind of a vague statement but I think what Zon means is that Colombianas are more than likely to experience trauma than AWs which AMs aren't accustomed to dealing with.Am I close?

   I am only taking a stab at clarification.I don't want to anger the Angel!   

     Researcher

   I agree I would not want Someone to come barging in from the asian board to straighten us all out again! So back to the point what is the clarification I am waiting too?

[Zon]

Researcher - "That is kind of a vague statement but I think what Zon means is that Colombianas are more than likely to experience trauma than AWs which AMs aren't accustomed to dealing with.Am I close?"

yes - thank you.   i would add ... more likely to experience trauma that results in a distrust of men, and a tendency to mislead and / or not be entirely direct. 

Almost all of this trauma is a product of women being compromised in one form, or another. (sorry, for another vague statement ... but it is a generalization)

[JimD]

What we consider "lying" is often "folklorico" to a Colombian. I posted an example of this in another thread.

[Traveler]

What Benjio said is true in my experience as well.  Astounding percentage of women were either molested or raped when they were very young.  More often than not the first sexual experiences of women in Colombia were forced.  This is a very very sad situation and explains many patterns of the women's behavior when they grow up.
 
Back to FT's question, well, it's based on genetics and personal observation.  Most of Hispanics are mestizos, specifically mostly European in the male line and mostly Amerindian in the female line.  So when a white guy has a child with a mestizo woman, this genetic trend is reinforced.  When the reverse happens, the trend is reversed.  Obviously there is no way to predict with certainty which parent's traits will end up dominant, but both based on genetics and my personal observation this pattern appears to hold.

[fathertime]

Back to FT's question, well, it's based on genetics and personal observation.  Most of Hispanics are mestizos, specifically mostly European in the male line and mostly Amerindian in the female line.  So when a white guy has a child with a mestizo woman, this genetic trend is reinforced.  When the reverse happens, the trend is reversed.  Obviously there is no way to predict with certainty which parent's traits will end up dominant, but both based on genetics and my personal observation this pattern appears to hold.

Traveler first I wouldn't question your observations in the general population.


  There are some good utube videos and other resources that break down how genetics work.  The experts would dispute your reasoning.  I appreciate you at least telling us how you arrived at the conclusion.  If nothing else it was interesting!


Fathertime!   

[fathertime]

   I agree I would not want Someone to come barging in from the asian board to straighten us all out again! So back to the point what is the clarification I am waiting too?

Well Fuzzy, Zon has had ample opportunity to clarify his statement but does not feel the need I guess.  As it stands this is the lens in which he sees the ladies of Colombia through:

Can a pregago / web cam girl make a good novia wife?  Hell, I don't know!  sometimes I think the entire country -EVERY WOMAN is a prepago / web cam girl in some regard, to some degree.   

When an attitude that has degenerated to this point, there is little chance at having a decent relationship with the ladies. Not to mention the statement is not correct.  So much for Zon's version of the "Unvarnished truth" 


Fathertime! 

[Researcher]

     If a guy reaches a point where he thinks every woman might be a prepago I'd say the guy has issues. Colombia is not much different than many third world countries so you will run across the same things in pretty much all of them.You get a mix of the good and bad.If it starts to tarnish your view of human kind it might be best to hang your hat else where.

        Researcher

[Zon]

FT and Researcher = "Well Fuzzy, Zon has had ample opportunity to clarify his statement but does not feel the need I guess.  As it stands this is the lens in which he sees the ladies of Colombia through:    ANOTHER =      If a guy reaches a point where he thinks every woman might be a prepago I'd say the guy has issues."

I am interested in real discussions and sharing observations that allow me to better understand the culture and people in Colombia.   It is a fascinating place that I have obviously fallen in love with.  But, Colombia is NOT all roses.  It is a study in contrasts.   There are enormously attractive aspects to the country that extend well beyond women, in my opinion.  Again, both of you seem to be sensitive to any fact that seems to be negative that applies to Colombian women.   I want / need to live in the real world, and not just hope for the best. 

My reference to prepagos / web cam girls was for effect, or to better illustrate the issues of "COMPROMISE" - a SUBSET of the general theme of this thread that hoped to stimulate contributions from people with experience to shine some added light on the subtleties of Colombianas characters - things that are under the covers and are difficult for an AM to understand on the surface.

Back to COMPROMISE: Some women are ill affected by compromise by a young age; some women are not affected at all.   COMPROMISE is something I see as a near universal feature in Colombian woman.  (sorry, for not being totally black and white, but I am looking for the remarks of others, and how they see these shades of grey).  COMPROMISE may be as slight as a woman not receiving the same support from the family for education and such; thus having a feeling of inadequacy, or injustice.  It could be as dramatic as a woman working as a prepago.  COMPROMISE, to me, is when a person does, or permits actions or engages in behavior as a direct remedy to short term financial or social pressures (or fear of abuse / harm) THAT IN A DIFFERENT WORLD, THEY WOULD NOT.

I have seen that many women in Colombia are willing to do something for something (not necessarily the extremes)  ... and I think it stems from a long history of compromises.

===  Of Course, I do not think ALL women in Colombia are Prepagos.  That would not be real world.   However, I know that MANY MANY women in Colombia take on lovers, sponsors, multiple novios for mixed reasons of attraction, fun, escape, and the benefits that a man provides ===