Spoiling your woman

[Traveler]

I also don't see anything wrong (and actually everything right) with DL's "coffee approach".  I myself practice it, whether in US or Colombia.  I guess the reason some people say he is cheap is not so much because of the coffee dates, but because he is very proud of pinching pennies elsewhere, like travel, living arrangements, etc.
 
Also, while it's perfectly good to meet for a coffee, once you are in a bona fide relationship and the woman has earned your generosity, and you think she is sincere, well, you should be generous within your means.  IMHO at least.

[dennislevy]

Micky nailed it.
 
The difference in attitudes between gringos who live in Colombia and guys who show up for an agency trip or to meet a girl or girls on line...is much different. Visiting gringos have the attitude...hey its a vacation, it s just money and a 50,000 peso bll  cant be much because it looks  like Monopoly money.
 
There are gringos who live or have lived in Colombia and spend a lot of money on women....and stil think its a vacation... Of course the women are out of what their honest, realistic dating pool should be, Too young.  too beautiful, etc.,party giirls, semi pros, etc. if a man s atttiude is ive got the money, i can do what I want....its true.....but those gringos are usually the object of hidden derision.   
 
The problem with agency dates is unless you ve written to them before the trip and you speak Spanish or they got good English, you can t really qualify them well. All the experience in Bogota agencies, my first two trips as a tourist  an then as a resident in Bogota  gave  me a foundation, but I wouldn t do it again.  Each month, I spent in Colombia...I had more confidence in my Spanish and my judgement, and now I don t have to talk to a woman for very long....on line....before I can decide, if there is any upside.
 
For me, time is important.....and if I can get to know enough about a woman in an hour and half and its coffee and pastry at Juan Valdez or a bakery. that s terrific. I dont expect the first cita to be different in a bakery then in a nice restaurant.
 
Heres a classic example.
 
 In Medellin in June, I met a 38 year old paisa from colombian cupid. I had written her an email on cupid, I wrote my standard letter, she sent me photos and her phone number.   I called her twice in the first three days after she sent me the photos, I left 2 specific voice messges, no answer, I sent her an email on the fourth  day...havent heard from you...etc.
 
On the sixth day, she sent me an email, sorry I ve been very busy at work but OK, lets meet tomorrow night, at 7.30 but can you call me at 6.45 PM to confirm?   I replied ....no, I wont do that....either we ll meet or we won t meet.....If you cant do it, e - mail me and I ll make other plans
 
She emailed, confirmed and she showed up....on time but looked at my face and walked right past me in the mall!  I called her by name and she turned around and quickly  put on the happy, friendly face, A kiss on the cheek, and we walked downstaris to Juan Valdez on the bototm  floor of the Oviedo Mall.  Capuccino and pastry for her , I had a black coffee and a cookue, 12,000 pesos, about 7.20.
 
She was stunning but I found out in an hour that she had too chaotic a life and too many personal l problems. so I politely said, Im sorry I am not the man for you, your life is too complicated  for me...God bless you..  thanks for your time..
 
if i had instead said,I would like to go out with you again, I am not sure what would have happened. But for me, it was a clear decision...other then a desire to hit the sheets with her...I couldn t  find a single reason to continue.     
 
And she was hurt...not because I had cut her, but I did it to her face. The next day, I wrote her a polite email, thanks...sorry if I offended you but again with respect I don t  think we will fit together.
 
She wrote back and called me tacaño gringo for not taking her to dnner and and really she prefered Colombian men...and I wasn t strong enough for her...a way to say I couldn t  sexually satisfy her......
 
I m not kidding!
 
And I  wrote back......you didnt earn a dinner.....you delayed answering me and you tried to play the silly call me 45 minutes  before to confirm control game....and how would you know what would happen in bed?
 
I didnt learn enough to know if she was spoiled, what I can say is that she had some very jagged wiring. But she did the normal Colombiana routines, she delayed respnding to see if I woud persist...and she tried a bit to get me to chase her with the call me 45 minutes before.
 
I probably should not even have met her for coffee., but she was gorgeous .......But we were communicating from two different cultures.....hers...Im going to make myself a bit unattainable so you have to chase me  and mine...look, don t waste time, show up, Il l be a gentleman...we ll talk and see what happens.
 
Nothing happened....As a gringo spending time in Colombia you can t go out with every woman you meet, twice...you have to make cuts. I ve had a lot of those one and out dates, and that s why I m a firm believer in first date coffees,.........when I can get them.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

[Traveler]

Well, DL, you learned something!  Women do not take direct rejection well.  And they do in those situations accuse you of being gay or having sexual problems.  That's standard.   

[dennislevy]

Traveler
 
If you re in Chang Mai Thiland, dont give me any crap about pinching  pennies. I ve got a good idea of what economy is like....and its cheaper then Colombia!!!! jejejeje
 
I live in hostals  and hotels ...and I travel almost always by bus....I always give myself suffcient time to ge tot where
I ve said I ll be.,

During the seven  months I was on the road in Colombia from the 28th of November, 2010 to the 1st of July 2011, I flew once from Medellin to Santa Marta.... I spent a bit under 25,0000,000  pesos before i crossed the border into Ecuador...... thats not pinching pennies in Colombia   

During those seven moths I went from Ipales in the south to Macaio in la Guajira in the northwest and from Tumaco on the Atlantic to Cucuta en Norte del Santander and a LOT of places in between . . 
 
I met fifty new women and three re runs  Exactly half of the 50 were one and outs, the others went further.
 
Now Traveler, get out your map of Colombia ----do some math, figure out how much it would cost YOU  to do 215 days on the road in all parts of Colombia, meet 50 new women and keep 3 reruns happy
 
And tell us what your number is. OK?
 
jejejejeje!!!!!!

Nothing the woman from the coffee Oviedo did suprised me. I kniow the consequeces of direct rejection...and most of the tome I prefer that method

[fathertime]

Are we talking about meeting and pre-qualifying women you may want to bang, women you are getting serious with, with the intent to marry, or wives? Big difference between the three. Why should you spend money making friends with people you don't know. To use it as a tool to make yourself look more attractive is disingenuous and only attracts the very kind of women most people say they're trying to avoid.

I agree.  If a man is looking for a wife, part of nature is to romance a lady a little bit.  That often entails forgetting about the price tag of everything all the time and living it up.   I would not recommend the approach of having a cup of coffee and bread roll with a lady, even for a first date I would imagine that would not be a turn on for many women.  I think it would turn off a lot of potentially good women.   Of course we are assuming the goal is to meet a woman for marriage, not just playtime for a week or two.


Fathertime! 

[whitey]

Very interesting thread with many great posts.

And a special mention to Traveler for some really insightful posts ...

[JimD]

 I would not recommend the approach of having a cup of coffee and bread roll with a lady, even for a first date I would imagine that would not be a turn on for many women...we are assuming the goal is to meet a woman for marriage
 

Could you elaborate and give examples of the places you took future wife to while you were courting.
 

[Traveler]

DL,
 
First of all, I have never said anything was wrong with your approach, especially if it makes you happy.  I just pointed out that some people might think of you as cheap because you are very proud of your frugality.  Everyone has a different approach to spending, and there is nothing wrong with yours as long as you are happy.
 
Also, I am NOT in Chiang Mai.  I was there about a year and a half ago, and that's where the photo was taken.  The place BTW was awesome.  VERY recommended as a tourist destination, along with the rest of the country.  But I like Colombia LOT better though  .
 
As for the coffee approach, why not?  Why would you invest a lot of money and effort into someone you don't know, and do not even like yet?  If everything goes well though, I'd say the costs of subsequent dating should go up a few notches.  If a woman thinks she is entitled to a free dinner from a guy who 1) doesn't even know her and 2) has not done anything to make that guy be interested in her besides being attractive and agreeing to grace him with her presence, she basically should reconsider her approach to life IMHO.

[Researcher]

    There are really two issues being discussed here. 1)Where you take a date for the first time will pretty much be up to the guy.He knows where he is taking her and why.It is a mistake to try and impress a woman on the first date with where you go but you don't want to cheap out either.
2) Giving a woman everything she wants is a mistake because you lose respect for you and think of you as an ATM.

         Researcher

[opusone]

    There are really two issues being discussed here. 1)Where you take a date for the first time will pretty much be up to the guy.He knows where he is taking her and why.It is a mistake to try and impress a woman on the first date with where you go but you don't want to cheap out either.
2) Giving a woman everything she wants is a mistake because you lose respect for you and think of you as an ATM.

         Researcher

What if you like fine dining and upscale restaurants? Does it matter what she thinks? Perhaps its the reactions, and changes you see after the fact that determines how you are being perceived

[Traveler]

It's perfectly appropriate to take a woman out to fine restaurants if you actually enjoy them and if you are actually dating the woman and if over the course of dating she has legitimately earned your interest.  And do not take a woman to fine restaurants until you know that you actually want to pursue a relationship with her, that she is genuinely interested in you, and is not dating you in order to go to fine restaurants for free.  I think the above is common sense.  The purpose of the first date is really to meet the girl, to begin to seduce her, to gauge if she is interested in you, and to see if you want to invest more time (and money) into have a potential relationship with her.  It is not to feed her.  If you already know the woman through social context, such as work together, the same social circle, etc, it is appropriate to ask her to a restaurant, because you already know her and may bypass that initial stage.  If you just met a girl, or go on a blind date, etc., it is not.  IMHO at least.  In fact, it may be even counterproductive.  She may think you are too easy and not a challenge.  Also, many women "compartmentalize" men in their lives, and you don't want to be assigned the role of the "guy who buys me dinners at those fancy restaurants".  And if you do not invest a lot of money in the earliest stages of the relationship it should weed out obvious golddiggers.

[opusone]

It's perfectly appropriate to take a woman out to fine restaurants if you actually enjoy them and if you are actually dating the woman and if over the course of dating she has legitimately earned your interest.  And do not take a woman to fine restaurants until you know that you actually want to pursue a relationship with her, that she is genuinely interested in you, and is not dating you in order to go to fine restaurants for free.  I think the above is common sense.  The purpose of the first date is really to meet the girl, to begin to seduce her, to gauge if she is interested in you, and to see if you want to invest more time (and money) into have a potential relationship with her.  It is not to feed her.  If you already know the woman through social context, such as work together, the same social circle, etc, it is appropriate to ask her to a restaurant, because you already know her and may bypass that initial stage.  If you just met a girl, or go on a blind date, etc., it is not.  IMHO at least.  In fact, it may be even counterproductive.  She may think you are too easy and not a challenge.  Also, many women "compartmentalize" men in their lives, and you don't want to be assigned the role of the "guy who buys me dinners at those fancy restaurants".  And if you do not invest a lot of money in the earliest stages of the relationship it should weed out obvious golddiggers.

I don't disagree with you idea of the "purpose" of the first date. In my experience, it doesn't seem to matter if you took her to Burger king(extreme here) or a 5 -star restaurant. What seems to matter more is whether or not she's into you , restaurant quality or lifestyle, aside, period. I mean what if the only car that I have is a Mclaren F-1? Should I then go rent a Pinto because I don't want her to "assign" me as the guy who picks her up in a fancy car? Who has that kind of time? If me eating at fine restaurants, or shopping @ high end malls brings out the gold-digger in her, better earlier than later. I remember once I took this lady out to an average run-of-the-mill restaurant and brought her back to my apartment, which was quite simple at the time. This was a person who apparently had not seen the finer things in life so you wouldn't think she was expecting anything. Well, turns out she was the biggest gold-digger ever. Conversely , I have taken women out who are quite used to dining in fine restaurants and they think nothing of it.Point being, I didn't change me.I think it can be quite difficult to  quantify your lifestyle with how someone may perceive you to be. Some taxi drivers assume things just the same,simply because you tell them you are going to such and such hotel. Others just drop you off, you pay the fare, and you are seen as just another passenger. 

[Researcher]

What if you like fine dining and upscale restaurants? Does it matter what she thinks? Perhaps its the reactions, and changes you see after the fact that determines how you are being perceived

    There is nothing wrong with fine dining and upscale restaurants but a guy knows if he is trying to impress a woman by doing so or not.My point is not against these finer things as much as a guys intentions.That's the difference.

      Researcher

[opusone]

    There is nothing wrong with fine dining and upscale restaurants but a guy knows if he is trying to impress a woman by doing so or not.My point is not against these finer things as much as a guys intentions.That's the difference.

      Researcher

Good point, Researcher

[dennislevy]

Traveler s last post is spot on, exactly how I think.

I don t want to give the impression that all I did in Colombia was first cofee dates...in Bogota I had a lot of lunches and some dinners for first dates ...I dont drink, so a nice lunch for two for 40 to 45,00 pesos and dinner from 50 to 70,000 pesos are very nice meals in most of Colombia...

.And no one ever complained where i took them.

Ive wrtten quite a bit about  first date etiquette with colombianas , where to sit at a table, etc. so let me add a little more.   

and this doesnt apply to young chicas ...because if you take them some place halfway nice or better, generally THEY eat everying that doesn t  move.

But if I make a date with a woman in my age range, we meet, kiss on the cheek, hola como estas? and then I sit a a 45 degree angle to her, never across the table. A couple of minute of chit chat.....and then I ask with a smile   ¿Are you hungry?

And if she says, no not really....maybe juice or a cofee or a glass of wine for now......

 I know I am being screened.....and that s fine....if I dont make HER cut, why  should  I waste both time and money?  So we order two coffees or lemonade or juice and we talk.

if after 30 or 40 minutes and she says...you know Im hungry, can we order now.....I ll say of course! If I m attracted to her, I ll say I was hoping you would be hungry, I am looking for an excuse to spend time with you!

I get a laugh and a smile and off we go.

If I not that attracted to her......buit she wants to eat....OK; I m going be a gentleman, I m not going to bail......I ll have soup or a salad and she can eat what she wants.

after 30 or 40 minutes of cofee and talking a woman says Dios mio, I forgot I have to pick up my daughter from schoo!  Then I didnt make HER cut it hasnt happened very often, usally the conversation peters put we say cuidate mucho....A  kiss on the cheek cuidate mucho and its done. I wrte a brief and polite e mail, it wa s ice to meet you......God bless you. chao

In the middle of coffee dates, if  I was interested....Ive sggested lunch or dinner.....my offer has almost always been acceted. 
 
A lot of this depends on how well you ve  qualified and talked with a woman before you meet her....When I was on the road  in Colombia and went to  meet a woman in her town or city after we had chatted for quite some time, I had incredible first visual date results......women who jumped me BEFORE we even went out to eat.............

If they were fill ins....based on one chat....Hi Im in your city.......I had some incredible experiences...but also quite  few one and out dates.

It amazes me when a gringo says that they are going  to romance a woman and need to spend more money to do it!  I m always happiest  when......ALSO she wants to romance ME!

Romance has NOTHING to do with how much you pay for a meal....MANY Colombian women believe in qimica, if they feel it...it doesnt matter where they are.   Qimica is quimica.....you can help it along, but you cant fake it...   Qimica is the well turned piropo (compliment) caressing hands on a first date, flirting..........certain changes in body and posture from a woman.

Someone wrote something  about qualifying women based on what you were looking ....

a wife....
or someone to bang for a short period of time....

Me, I qualify interest  and qimica......a Colombian woman is going to think whatever she  wants, it will come out in time.

I ve taken heat  for not being  a dedicated wife hunter, I certainly was at one time....

but you know if I am with a woman and I know there isn t  any chance for a long term relationship.....but she s attractive and she s interested in me.....I m not about to say cariño, please take your hand off my leg, you re not what Im looking for in a wife!!!!! 

I havent used the phrase I am looking for a wife with a woman in probably two years...and I ve been really...busy.

Some of the guys seem to think there only one reason to come to Colombia...to try and find a wfe. If you want a Colombian woman to live with you in the US or wherever , that may be the only way to make it happen....Some guys are able to do it...and I m happy for them.. .

but as I ve lived here...I understand a lot more about how women think...and I ve had just too much fun to get married.....

.to live with a woman in a union libre, yes......to get married..don t think so.....

It takes a lot for a woman to stop me in my tracks...but it happens....one of the reasons I moved to Medellin  was to be with the woman who is now my best friend n Colombia.....in the last 7 months on the road in Colombia....I spent considerable time in Monteria in Cordoba and Riohacha  in la Guajira to try and make two diferent relationships work.

I ve had my heart broken for various reasons  by six different women ...but Ill keep going,,,,

And hopefully, new advenures await in Peru. 

[opusone]

.to live with a woman in a union libre, yes......to get married..don t think so.....

It takes a lot for a woman to stop me in my tracks...but it happens....one of the reasons I moved to Medellin  was to be with the woman who is now my best friend n Colombia.....in the last 7 months on the road in Colombia....I spent considerable time in Monteria in Cordoba and Riohacha  in la Guajira to try and make two diferent relationships work.

I ve had my heart broken for various reasons  by six different women ...but Ill keep going,,,,

And new advenures await in Peru.

Whew. With all that experience, knowledge, time, money spent, representing agencies, does it ever end? By now you should have at least one locked down that made you happy.

[dennislevy]

opusone

I m not hiding anything. I thought enough of three women that I ve asked them to to live with me...

On this thread I wrote up the story of the Bogotana who wanted me  to buy an apartment immediately. she s still single and looking

Another bogotana, who was 46 when I met her..... told me she had gotten over her Spanish boyfriend.............. they had broken up 8 months previoulsy and she agreed to live with me. But, she dumped me to go back to the boyfriend  who flew to Colombia when he found out his ex was shtupping a gringo!

She played him off aginst me to get him to come back.  A Colombian woman doing that........ Im shocked, shocked....jejejeee

And she now lives with him in Spain

The third was this spring in Riohacha...and she was too fractured to make a comittment.  She captivated me, but I saw more in her then was actually there.....As far as I know she s still chatting on cupido

And I love my best friend in Medellin.....the most  level headed, un selfish Colombian woman I ve ever met......I came closest with her....In some ways , I was completely happy with her.

The good thing is that by living here, Ive made mistakes and they cost me some time..but the recovery time is less.     

And now Im just a tad............ cautious. JEJEJEJE

OK....

Dennis

 

[beginthebeguin]

dennislevy wrote

She played him off aginst me to get him to come back.  A Colombian woman doing that........ Im shocked, shocked....jejejeee

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjbPi00k_ME

[dennislevy]

Begin

Thanls  for picking it up!

I came to Colombia for the waters..................

and,,,

I was misinformed.....

jejejeje
Dennis