Joint Or Separate Checking Accounts After Marriage?

[Alabamaboy!]

This is another one of those touchy topics that we are getting ready to tackle. When my wife gets here (hopefully) within the next month or so, we need to discuss how to handle the money. Especially when the economy is in the toilet and cash is much tighter now than before...at least in this household.

I have been able to save some significant cash before we ever got married. That money I will be keeping in an individual account which she has absolutely no access to. Then I plan on using my "travel checking account" as our "household account". I will add her name to that account, get her a debit card, and give her that account to use to buy the food, clothing, pay the bills, etc. So she can see where all the money goes. And I will also see where it goes as well. I will make sure that she understands that there will be no helping her family, no travel, no anything unless she manages the household money properly. I am going to try to do things with virtually no actual cash in hand. I want her to use only debit and checks so we can see where all the money is going. Hopefully she will quickly learn about budgeting, saving, taxes, and general money management.

We also want to open a joint bank account in Colombia. I will make it so that both signatures need to be signed or whatever to withdraw cash from that account. That account can be our vacation account. I would be willing to fund that account with maybe $50K of money that I have accumulated before meeting her. The 2 year CD's there pay like 6%, so we could have potentially $3K every year for travel expenses every year if things go well. At this time I think that is a good strategy rather than buying a place there. It will give us the opportunity to travel to different places until we can decide for sure where we want to buy as our part year retirement place.

[Traveler]

Well, you do need to have a joint account.  If you go to an immigration interview and you don't have one, it will be a major red flag to them.  I would not rush to put more money into the joint account than necessary.
 
The same for the account in Colombia.  I though that for a US citizen to open one there he needs to have some kind of a visa.  Is this the case?

[Alabamaboy!]

Well, you do need to have a joint account.  If you go to an immigration interview and you don't have one, it will be a major red flag to them.  I would not rush to put more money into the joint account than necessary.
 
The same for the account in Colombia.  I though that for a US citizen to open one there he needs to have some kind of a visa.  Is this the case?

I tried several banks here in the States to add my wife's name on the account, but they all said it could not be done until she actually gets here and signs the paperwork. After she gets here no problem. I think I have that base covered because I have already done 2010 tax return with her name on it, and we filed "married, joint return".

I will have the visa. I have used an attorney and there will be a contact person who will accompany us to the interview which will happen the day after my wife's US spousal visa. The thing I will not have in hand is the cedula.

[robert angel]

When you bring a bride here to the USA, I think it certainly looks good to have at least one joint checking and savings account for the USCIS, as well as certain bills and insurance in both your names. It makes it look like you're really married to the govt.--useful when adjustment of status time comes along.

See how she handles a debit card and you might want to give her credit cards with modest limits and explain very clearly, the high interest rates, late fee payments and how millions of Americans are so trapped in 'plastic prisons' of credit card debt, on which they can only afford to pay the minimum payment, which often barely covers just the interest on the debt--so they never get out of debt. Some people new to this country think that its still easy to claim bankruptcy and make all your troubles go away--you might want to explain the reality there.

Especially if you have substantial equity in the house, I think it's best to keep it in your own name, at least at first, maybe always. Remember if you move and buy a new house after marrying someone, it's all but certain that in the court's eyes, that new house is 50% hers, no matter how much cash--home equity monies you sunk into it. That's why a lot of guys try to buy a house BEFORE marriage and if you think you might be needing more room for kids later on, try and think ahead.
If you have kids, you have to watch how you name and divide up assets, to make sure if you kick the bucket, there's no war over your estate and somebody might come up short. I think I've balanced it out and my wife has been very involved and was actually pretty savvy in telling me to make sure my sons, who are not legally adults yet, are taken well care of, because although we're not rich, (and even if we were) she doesn't want a nasty estate battle.
 
You can never have too many accounts in too many countries, as long as you can keep track of them! We have some money in the Philippines and depending how the exchange rate is, we may use some of it when we're there or let her family use it to loan out to others against land and crops. Interest rates rarely seem to be good over there, unless you're loaning money out--if you loan to growers, if crops do well, you get crops, and/or cash--if crops do bad, you get land, title in hand.

[Jeff S]

Yes - trust but verify until you get a handle on her abilities. Those who exclude their wives from the family finances and just give their wives an allowance, are making a major mistake IMO. If she's going to be part of the team, she needs to be part of the team. Hopefully, you've picked someone with enough character to not lie to you or try to hide what she's doing. On the other hand, she should know that she has some say in discretionary spending. Women just need to spend more on personal things than men. There are some economic advantages to being a man - three pair of shoes are plenty, one hairstyle is good for decades, some shaving cream, deodorant, shampoo, and toothpaste comprise a pretty complete list of consumable chemicals, and a couple rolls of toilet paper is enough disposable paper products for a month.

[Alabamaboy!]

Yes - trust but verify until you get a handle on her abilities. Those who exclude their wives from the family finances and just give their wives an allowance, are making a major mistake IMO. If she's going to be part of the team, she needs to be part of the team. Hopefully, you've picked someone with enough character to not lie to you or try to hide what she's doing. On the other hand, she should know that she has some say in discretionary spending. Women just need to spend more on personal things than men. There are some economic advantages to being a man - three pair of shoes are plenty, one hairstyle is good for decades, some shaving cream, deodorant, shampoo, and toothpaste comprise a pretty complete list of consumable chemicals, and a couple rolls of toilet paper is enough disposable paper products for a month.

That is why I like using debit cards. Because you can see very quickly where all the money is going. Heck with Wells Fargo you can even do a custom search with keywords and date ranges to see how much money you spent at Ablebee's during the past year.

In regards to credit cards, I doubt I would ever allow that one to happen. I one for business and one for emergencies, and that is it. That is all we need. I am not like the US Government. We will need to  manage to live within our means without use of credit cards.

[Fuzzyone]

  I have a joint account with my wife and for years I had a separate account where my pay check went into to pay the bills. After about 5 years and we bought a house I placed my wife's name on it just because if anything happened to me she could draw what ever money was there.

[jm21-2]

Definitely worth it for me to have a joint account....very convenient and she hated having to ask me for money...the whole allowance thing doesn't make sense to me and she's more frugal than I am anyways. If we believed in only paying in cash we'd probably just have a bowl of money somewhere that we both had access to. She's spent maybe $100 on herself since she came here...skype credit to talk with her family, some makeup for our wedding, went out to KFC for lunch once or twice....went bowling one afternoon. Scary stuff....


We do spend a lot at the Asian malls though. One of them sells some canned snacks from Taiwan that she'll load up on once a month or so.

[fathertime]

This is another one of those touchy topics that we are getting ready to tackle. When my wife gets here (hopefully) within the next month or so, we need to discuss how to handle the money.

My wife and I have never really had a serious talk about money.   My wife has had such good sense about money that, it just hasn't been necessary and we have enough for our needs.

  I have a joint account with my wife and for years I had a separate account where my pay check went into to pay the bills. After about 5 years and we bought a house I placed my wife's name on it just because if anything happened to me she could draw what ever money was there.

I'm on the Fuzzy plan too.  I only opened the joint account to show USCIS and during the interview I told the interviewer the account was strictly for show and we don't use it.  After the interview, the acct. was closed.

Yes - trust but verify until you get a handle on her abilities. Those who exclude their wives from the family finances and just give their wives an allowance, are making a major mistake IMO. If she's going to be part of the team, she needs to be part of the team. Hopefully, you've picked someone with enough character to not lie to you or try to hide what she's doing. 

Hey Jeff!  You may be right, although to this point the monthly discretionary fund is the method we have been using.  There is still lots of teamwork involved in other aspects of the relationship.  We do what we can in parts of the relationship where the interest lies.


Fathertime! 

[whitey]

Good post AB - an important topic.

My retirement savings account and my investment accounts will remain in my name only.

I have already opened a savings account for my wife.  She will also become joint on my chequing account, where my paycheques go and from where I/we will pay all the bills.  I will also open up a savings account for myself, so that I will have some money of my own that is separate from our joint account.

I have only two credit cards.  I try to put every expense on my travel points card where possible - if not, it goes on my debit card.  The card is paid off in full each month.  The second credit card is just for emergency backup on vacations, and I've never had to use it.  My wife will become a secondary cardholder on the first credit card, and eventually she may get her own credit card.

She is an accountant, and I've watched her handle money over the last 3 years of our relationship - I have no doubt that she will continue to manage her/our money well.  Like I said in another post, she's had debit card access to an account containing $2,000 for the last year, and has only used about $250 (all for visa related expenses).


 

[Chris F]

This is another one of those touchy topics that we are getting ready to tackle. When my wife gets here (hopefully) within the next month or so, we need to discuss how to handle the money. Especially when the economy is in the toilet and cash is much tighter now than before...at least in this household.

I have been able to save some significant cash before we ever got married. That money I will be keeping in an individual account which she has absolutely no access to. Then I plan on using my "travel checking account" as our "household account". I will add her name to that account, get her a debit card, and give her that account to use to buy the food, clothing, pay the bills, etc. So she can see where all the money goes. And I will also see where it goes as well. I will make sure that she understands that there will be no helping her family, no travel, no anything unless she manages the household money properly. I am going to try to do things with virtually no actual cash in hand. I want her to use only debit and checks so we can see where all the money is going. Hopefully she will quickly learn about budgeting, saving, taxes, and general money management.

We also want to open a joint bank account in Colombia. I will make it so that both signatures need to be signed or whatever to withdraw cash from that account. That account can be our vacation account. I would be willing to fund that account with maybe $50K of money that I have accumulated before meeting her. The 2 year CD's there pay like 6%, so we could have potentially $3K every year for travel expenses every year if things go well. At this time I think that is a good strategy rather than buying a place there. It will give us the opportunity to travel to different places until we can decide for sure where we want to buy as our part year retirement place.

I guess I am a little confused here AB. You have mentioned before many times that one of the qualities you love about your wife is that she is very very frugal with money. Now, you discuss about denying her access to some accounts and giving her a separate account with a limit to control her spending implying a concern that she is not going to use common sense and overspend?
If she is frugal like you have stated I believe you really will have nothing to worry about in regards to her managing money.
 

[euforia51]

See how she handles a debit card and you might want to give her credit cards with modest limits and explain very clearly, the high interest rates, late fee payments and how millions of Americans are so trapped in 'plastic prisons' of credit card debt, on which they can only afford to pay the minimum payment, which often barely covers just the interest on the debt--so they never get out of debt. Some people new to this country think that its still easy to claim bankruptcy and make all your troubles go away--you might want to explain the reality there.

Points in bold ... precisely the reasons to avoid credit cards at all costs ... and especially if you think you have to set modest limits and do a test drive.
 

Yes - trust but verify until you get a handle on her abilities. Those who exclude their wives from the family finances and just give their wives an allowance, are making a major mistake IMO. If she's going to be part of the team, she needs to be part of the team. Hopefully, you've picked someone with enough character to not lie to you or try to hide what she's doing.

Absolutely. Seems to me, if you can't live by these rules, why bother to get married in the first place?

[fathertime]

 Absolutely. Seems to me, if you can't live by these rules, why bother to get married in the first place?

If you can't think of another reason to get married other than  mandatory joint bank accounts than you are not being creative enough.  I've been married for 2 years, and we don't have a joint bank account and it makes zero difference in our marriage and why should it?  If a man wants to have joint accounts with his wife that is fine, but if he doesn't I don't think anything important can be read into that.  Different couples do things different ways and if it works for them that is what matters.


Fathertime!   

[JimD]

We also want to open a joint bank account in Colombia. I will make it so that both signatures need to be signed or whatever to withdraw cash from that account. That account can be our vacation account. I would be willing to fund that account with maybe $50K of money that I have accumulated before meeting her. The 2 year CD's there pay like 6%, so we could have potentially $3K every year for travel expenses every year if things go well. At this time I think that is a good strategy rather than buying a place there. It will give us the opportunity to travel to different places until we can decide for sure where we want to buy as our part year retirement place.

Yes you should get to know a lot more of Colombia first before you make a decision about where to buy. As to a bank account in Colombia why do you need one if you're not living here and don´t have monthly bills to pay? If you´re worried about in country travel money open a US account with citibank. I talked to a girl working for citibank in Chipichape the other day and she told me you can take out a million pesos from their Colombian ATMs in a single transaction. Davidienda ATMs will only give you $750.000 and Bancolombia only $400.000.

[euforia51]

If you can't think of another reason to get married other than  mandatory joint bank accounts than you are not being creative enough.

To each is own, of course. But the point was not strictly about keeping joint bank accounts. The point was team. The point was to involve your wife in the financial decisions of the household; that she has just as much of a say as anyone. The point was that marriage is an "all in" institution. And if you're not going to go all in, then maybe you shouldn't go.

[fathertime]

To each is own, of course. But the point was not strictly about keeping joint bank accounts. The point was team. The point was to involve your wife in the financial decisions of the household; that she has just as much of a say as anyone. The point was that marriage is an "all in" institution. And if you're not going to go all in, then maybe you shouldn't go.

I agree with this post, involving the wife in financial decisions is a given.  I think I misunderstood your previous post!


Fathertime!

[Alabamaboy!]

I guess I am a little confused here AB. You have mentioned before many times that one of the qualities you love about your wife is that she is very very frugal with money. Now, you discuss about denying her access to some accounts and giving her a separate account with a limit to control her spending implying a concern that she is not going to use common sense and overspend?
If she is frugal like you have stated I believe you really will have nothing to worry about in regards to her managing money.

I am a little confused here Chris F. I thought you were a college educated intelligent guy. I am denying her access to the money I have accumulated over the past 26 years of working, that is basically my retirement money. I mentioned that she will be on the joint account in which we will be living from the time of marriage on. I will deposit my paycheck and all incoming money into that account and it will be a joint account. Is that not good enough for you? Do you think she deserves to have access to my prior savings before she was married to me??? Who is going to do something like that? Especially when I am already on the hook for a massive monthly payment to my ex wife for the next 7 years.

I don't believe I implied anything about my wife over spending. But I did point out the advantages of using a debit card to track where money is being spent. Just as I have done for myself before she ever came along. And I believe it is a good policy for us to live within our means and not need to ever dip into the account that I have accumulated long before she came along.

By the way I did not do any kind of pre-nupt or anything because I think it is fair to split things 50/50 for any assets accumulated after the marriage.

[Alabamaboy!]

Yes you should get to know a lot more of Colombia first before you make a decision about where to buy. As to a bank account in Colombia why do you need one if you're not living here and don´t have monthly bills to pay? If you´re worried about in country travel money open a US account with citibank. I talked to a girl working for citibank in Chipichape the other day and she told me you can take out a million pesos from their Colombian ATMs in a single transaction. Davidienda ATMs will only give you $750.000 and Bancolombia only $400.000.

Yeah I have been around to a lot of cities in Colombia already and I like most of them. So it would be difficult to pick a place to buy a property in at this time.

Again the reason I want a Colombian bank account is that the peso has been rising against the dollar big time. And that Colombian bank CDTs (CDs) pay like 6 % for 24 months, and US bank CD's will pay like 1%. So you win on the currency, and you win on the CDT tasa. Just a hedge against the US economy which seems to make sense because I am getting a Colombian spousal visa and want to live part year down there within the next 5-7 years.

[JimD]

Well make sure you familiarize yourself with  the Estatuto Tributario and Declaracion de Renta otherwise you may find the "advantages" eaten up by taxes. As to living part time in Colombia remember that with the temporal TS visa and later the permanent resident visa you may not remain out of Colombia for more than 180 days in a year or you lose it.

[Ray]

But I did point out the advantages of using a debit card to track where money is being spent.

　
I don’t know AB, this just sounds so weird to me.
　
Why do you feel a need to track every penny she spends by making her use a debit card?
　
I feel that people need to have some cash money for everyday expenses. If I want to stop after work for a couple of beers with friends, buy a hot dog at Costco for lunch, or spend a dollar on a Lotto ticket, I ain’t gona use no debit card!
　
Keeping track of regular monthly expenses to make a budget is one thing, but to feel a need to track all of her out-of-pocket spending just seems sort of controlling and paranoid, but then again that’s just me.
　
And remember that you can easily get cleaned out if anyone ever gets a hold of that debit card with a PIN number to go with it.
　
Have you considered giving her a regular cash allowance to do with as she pleases? It may make her feel more trusted.
　
Ray
　

[Alabamaboy!]

　
I don’t know AB, this just sounds so weird to me.
　
Why do you feel a need to track every penny she spends by making her use a debit card?
　
I feel that people need to have some cash money for everyday expenses. If I want to stop after work for a couple of beers with friends, buy a hot dog at Costco for lunch, or spend a dollar on a Lotto ticket, I ain’t gona use no debit card!
　
Keeping track of regular monthly expenses to make a budget is one thing, but to feel a need to track all of her out-of-pocket spending just seems sort of controlling and paranoid, but then again that’s just me.
　
And remember that you can easily get cleaned out if anyone ever gets a hold of that debit card with a PIN number to go with it.
　
Have you considered giving her a regular cash allowance to do with as she pleases? It may make her feel more trusted.
　
Ray
　

I don't think it is weird, paranoid, or any of the above. The money is not her money. It is the family money. So I want her to manage it well. She has never had a bank account, a check book, a debit card nothing. Do you guys just suggest handing over the family finances, in these times, blindly? That would be completely irresponsible.

For example what if she spends the money stocking up on meat because they have a big sale at the grocery store, and forgets that the electric bill must be paid on the 30th of the month? If she overdraws the account and accumulates lots of over draft charges it can add up to a big mess very quickly.  At first she is not going to be organized enough to handle or remember all these things. And we need to be on a tight budget if we are going to do all the things we want to. Especially send $250 a month to her folks, have extra money for her to blow on some shoe shopping or whatever thing. I want her to see where the money comes from, where it goes, and how we can make a nice life for everyone if she manages it well.

Give her an allowance??? Like my 11 year old??? So that will make her more trusted rather than her managing maybe $8K/month? That does not even make any sense. That is completely illogical. The fact that I am letting her run the family account says a lot. After she proves that she can do it, then it will be something big off my back.

[Alabamaboy!]

Well make sure you familiarize yourself with  the Estatuto Tributario and Declaracion de Renta otherwise you may find the "advantages" eaten up by taxes. As to living part time in Colombia remember that with the temporal TS visa and later the permanent resident visa you may not remain out of Colombia for more than 180 days in a year or you lose it.

Yeah thanks Jim, I recently learned of that 180 day rule. That is good. It will give me a good excuse to at least make two trips there a year. I will look up that other thing you mentioned above....thanks for the info.

[Alabamaboy!]

　
I don’t know AB, this just sounds so weird to me.
　
Why do you feel a need to track every penny she spends by making her use a debit card?
　
I feel that people need to have some cash money for everyday expenses. If I want to stop after work for a couple of beers with friends, buy a hot dog at Costco for lunch, or spend a dollar on a Lotto ticket, I ain’t gona use no debit card!
　
Keeping track of regular monthly expenses to make a budget is one thing, but to feel a need to track all of her out-of-pocket spending just seems sort of controlling and paranoid, but then again that’s just me.
　
And remember that you can easily get cleaned out if anyone ever gets a hold of that debit card with a PIN number to go with it.
　
Have you considered giving her a regular cash allowance to do with as she pleases? It may make her feel more trusted.
　
Ray
　

And don't forget Ray, she would be able to see all my purchases too. I think it would be good. I don't have any problem with it.

We would not be leaving too much cash in the account after each month. We would put that into a joint savings account. If she spends $100 a month on clothes or shoes, I don't care. I surely am not going to ask for permission either. But we can only do that if we manage the cash well and have the money to do so. That is what I want to get across to her.

If we eat at Applebee's twice a week, there will be no money for shoes. If she makes low cost meals that we both like, such as nice soups, roast chicken, etc., there should be money left over for frivolous things, savings, etc.

That is how we should run our government. If they take care of the cash and there is money left over then they can use it for "other things" such as NASA, Dept. of Education, EPA, etc. If we don't have the cash, too bad, so sad.

[michaelb]

AB, maybe you just aren't making yourself clear, or maybe both Ray and I fail to understand you, because I'm reading this the same way, or at very similarly.

There is a big difference between "Here's $8,000 cash, spend it carefully and don't loose it" and not letting the lady walk around with a twenty dollar bill in her pocket so that she can buy a hamburger and soft drink from time to time.......and from what you're posting, it looks like you don't understand that difference. 

What do you expect her to do if she makes some friends up here (hopefully she will) and every time she's out with them she has to mooch them for a Coke... first time (or maybe two) she can probably skate by with "forgot to bring my cash"....by the third or fourth time they're going to figure out "He doesn't let her have any money"....which will embarrass her and could cause problems for you.....as in if these hypothetical friends decide  "poor little abused foreign girl, let's help her......"   

OK, fine, for your own peace of mind you need a debit card transaction to track the spending? How's this, she goes to an ATM, takes out $20.00, maybe $40.00 from time to time and when you ask "What is this transaction?" the answer is "walking around money".......Now if she does this every day, then I agree you've got a problem.....but if she keeps it to a reasonable amount (what's reasonable??? You two agree on that) then all is well....or at least should be.

[Alabamaboy!]

MichaelB you are a really negative guy. Who suggested that she cannot spend $20-40 at a time? Who said she needed to mooch from someone? Are you high or something? Do you understand what a debit card is and what it is used for? . 


You guys are reading into a lot of things that were neither suggested nor implied.

Where do you live man? Do you realize that even McDonald's accepts debit cards? Everyone in the world does man.

The things YOU are implying are a little offensive. I am telling you how a young wife will be given access to around $8,000 cash every month from a joint account. And how we will open another joint savings account. And how we are going to open anotherrrrr joint Colombian account which will be funded with $50K from cash from my retirement savings. But to you it seems like I am taking advantage of the "poor little abused foreign girl"? WTF dude! That is really offensive man.

I think you need to put your reading glasses on this time, re-read everything, and try not to make such outlandish, offensive remarks.

Your hypothetical dialogues are not reality. They are in your twisted mind. For you to get from my posts here to hypothesizing all that you did, that is quite a stretch.