The Fertile Latina Will Soon Be A Product of Another Time!

[fathertime]

It looks like the fertile Latina is becoming a thing of the past.  I was reading an article on National Geographic.  It seems that the birth rate in Brazil has plummeted from 6.5 per lady to 1.9.  This change occurred over a span of 40 years.  To summarize, there are several theories as to why this is happening.  The ladies attitudes have changed.  They are now saying that their “Factory is closed”  a fábrica está fechada   One theory is that the influence is the telenovelas where it is rare for a woman to have more than a child or two.  Among the many theories is that the Brazillian society is becoming more western and possessions are becoming more of a priority.  All in all, the women are feeling more empowered and that means less children and more work and shopping for stupid trinkets to decorate the empty house with. 
 Here is another quote from the article that seems to epitomize the way the new way Brazilian ladies think.


"We've found that for many young women, their first priority now is their education. The second is their profession. And the third is children and a stable relationship."


My thoughts:  As a society becomes less dependent on manual labor and more dependent on desk jobs and less physical jobs, the ladies descend upon the jobs like locusts and the men are soon displaced.  Soon the ladies are the breadwinners and wear the pants.  The men are no longer very important and are playing video games and traipsing around the house in skirts and high heels.  The ladies don’t want to have sex very often with these girly men and they sure as hell don’t have much respect for these guys and don’t want them to father their child. 


For all you younger guys who are planning on breeding out these Latina ladies, maybe it is better to find a lady not TOO interested in career.  That was how the ladies here in the USA were for 100’s of years, it is only in the last 40 or so that roles changed and many men became women with wieners and shaved chests.  Now if you are not planning on breeding them out, then I think that changes your options a bit.




http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/09/girl-power/gorney-text


Fathertime!

[Alabamaboy!]

The part that really freaks me out about "career women" is when they demand to have their own career even when it is not necessary for financial reasons while at the same time it damages the "family" and the "home".

Why would they even want to get married in the first place? Why would they want to have kids? Why not just live in their self absorbed, empty lives without dragging kids and a husband into the mix?

And women who say that it does not damage the "family" and the "home" are crazy.

So I gotta give props to the Brazilian women for that thing, that they are not pushing out 6 kids anymore while they are off following their dream of being a desk jockey in some dead end job for 20-30 years.

[whitey]

My "breeding" days are over now ... I just like to practice ...

[michaelb]

Maybe they have finally learned "La familia pequeña vive mejor"?  (Since you were talking about Brazil, here it is in Portuguese, according to Google translate: A pequena família uma vida melhor).

Been a l-o-n-g time since I was running around in Mexico, but during the 1970's you couldn't look at a billboard or have the radio or TV on without seeing/hearing that phrase (set to a catchy little tune).  When in print/billboards/TV there was a silhouette style picture of one man, one woman and two children holding hands......I'm sure all of us have seen the satirical silhouette picture of the man and woman running across the road with several children in tow and the words "Caution, illegal crossing" or words to that effect.....I think the satirical picture is based on the one used in this advertising campaign.

As I mentioned, been a long time since I've been to Mexico, maybe Innocent Vixen can tell me, for my own curiosity, are they are still running those advertisements in Mexico?

[fathertime]

My "breeding" days are over now ... I just like to practice ...

Whitey do you mean that your 'Factory is Closed'?
   Hehe! 






Fathertime! 

[Kiltboy1]

I just do not understand why guys have a problem with there woman working and having something of her own to feel proud about besides washing dishes, cleaning house and changing dipers.My mom was a traditional stay at home wife who absolutly resented my dad for keeping her in the home and not allowing her to grow as a person. She resented him until the day she died.I am glad that my family is well balanced and my wife enjoys her job as branch manager of a credit union and then when she gets home she goes into Mother mode and prepares great meals, helps with homework and good conversation about both our days. Each to there own, but I like balance
 
KB

[Alabamaboy!]

KB, if it is needed for the woman to work to pay the mortgage or buy food, that is cool. Of course it is an admirable endeavor. But to just work for the sake of working or that is your claim to fame that makes you "complete" or boosts your self esteem or whatever reason? That seems just kind of strange to me.

Especially strange when the woman makes $8-10/hour and then pays a babysitter the same to care for the kids. And then pays someone else to help clean the house. Or worse yet, expects the guy to come home from work and help with those domestic chores. Personally I have no problem doing any of those things as long as it is necessary. But I'm not going to do it simply because my wife wants to chase her lifelong goal as being assistant manager at Chili's.

I would never work another day if it was not necessary. I would loveeeeee to spend all my time with the kids, wife, exercising, chilling out, developing hobbies, all those things.

I think that the problems occur when one party or the other is dishonest and says they want one type of life, but in reality they want something else. Like a woman who says their goal is to be a stay at home mom, wife, cooking, making a home, whatever. Then a couple years later wants to start studying at the University and put the kids in daycare all day and get the housekeeper. Or the guy says he does not mind the career woman but later resents her for working long hours, eating frozen dinners, or not having enough energy to do things as a family because her career is taking too much energy from her.

If there are no kids involved, then who cares?

To me, there is no more noble or prestigious "career" than making a beautiful, happy, healthy, sane home and family. I would gladly trade my "career" for that one if my wife could earn what I do.

Your mom should have left your dad if he was such a tyrant. If she  had communicated that she wanted to be a career woman, and have a career outside of the home, but he forced her to stay cooped up in the house, then that is not cool at all.

But if your mom, said she wanted to be a housewife, mother, support her man while he brings in more than enough cash for the family....has babies....makes promises and takes on responsibilities, then a couple years later she decides it is too hard or boring or whatever thing..and she wishes to embark on her "career", well too bad for her. She should have thought things out a little better before hand. I would not agree with it either. That would be the ultimate "bait and switch". If the man is not able to provide, that is another issue. The family should not suffer for his ego that does not want her to work for some other strange reasons.

If she was making 6 figures however I would be all for it and would gladly quit my job to do the much more important, and fun thing in my eyes of taking care of the kids, cooking, chilling out while she works.

Your wife who is a bank manager must be bringing in some significant cash so it makes more sense than some of the other situations I have seen.

Almost all of the women working for me are divorced or getting ready to divorce with one of the biggest issues being that the husband says they are lazy to cook, take care of the kids, or do other things with them after work. None of them are making more than $15/hr. All of them have their own cars which they pay for out of "their" money. They all eat fast food every day. They are hard workers and are tired at the end of the day so I don't see how their families are getting much benefit out of any of this. They are like a dog chasing their tail.

[fathertime]

I just do not understand why guys have a problem with there woman working and having something of her own to feel proud about besides washing dishes, cleaning house and changing dipers.My mom was a traditional stay at home wife who absolutly resented my dad for keeping her in the home and not allowing her to grow as a person. She resented him until the day she died.I am glad that my family is well balanced and my wife enjoys her job as branch manager of a credit union and then when she gets home she goes into Mother mode and prepares great meals, helps with homework and good conversation about both our days. Each to there own, but I like balance
 
KB

Hey KB!
 I think it is a matter of what YOUNG people want within their marriages in society as a whole.  The article threw quite a positive  spin about the transformation that was occurring.  There was nothing mentioned about the man’s perspective, so I thought I’d put out a counterpoint to the article. 


  My experience (not in this marriage) has been that when a woman works a lot outside the home the existing children are secondary if not worse.  What a man often gets is a foul-mooded, overwhelmed spouse that is unable/unwilling to take care of the home properly.   I think there is a place in the labor force for women though, and that is when they are SECOND wives of old farts like some of us, or if they are not interested in having children.   In the case of you and Whitey, you have already bred out your first wives so maybe it is a good fit if you have a second wife that is interested in working full time.    Just so long as needs are met on both sides.   This obviously isn’t universal because there are exceptions, but I think it is true more often than not.   




Fathertime! 

[Alabamaboy!]

I recall reading somewhere about a growing trend that is occurring these days in Brazil. Seems like the usual pattern is that a Brazilian man will marry a woman a few years younger than him when they are in their 20's. The woman will develop her "career" and have the kids during the 20-40's. Then the guy divorces the woman because she is too caught up in her "career" and re-marries a significantly younger and more playful woman with whom to spend the later years of his life. These women are not much of the "career" women style, but rather all about making a life with the husband.

Since the life expectancy of Brazilian men and women is 79 and 86 respectively, the second wife is almost guaranteed she will get a good many years of support from the older husband's pension once he dies.

The end result:

1. First wife gets a pretty good life, gets her career off the ground, gets rid of the old mujeriego fart.

2. Guy gets a wife to share the hard times as he builds his career, opens up time for him to search for some hotties on the side while wifey is home taking care of kids, house, etc. Later gets to spend his final 20 years or so with someone much younger, hotter, and who is focused mostly on his needs.
 
3. Second wife gets a life with a guy who is already established, probably has a home, and she does not need to work outside the home. The guy is probably much more attentive to her "needs" than a young guy without the means to provide much financial security.

Seems like a near perfect situation for all.

Here is one article I found regarding some of what I have explained.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5j4kRaee74hsEIN15BUNQ-SrvMYKQ

[Kiltboy1]

Like I said , each to there own. i have absolutly no problem with a wife that works and wants to better herself  and grow as a person as long as the home is not affected . My kids are in afterschool and are able to play with there friends, if my son came home after school all he would do is watch TV or read. He is socialy much more adapt being around other children.some women like being at home all the time, but my wife would drive herself crazy . Her job pays ok, nothing to get too excited about, but it is not about the money, it is about her enjoying what she is doing in life and as the old saying goes"IF MAMA AINT HAPPY, AINT NOBODY HAPPY" and that goes for whatever culture the person comes from. I look at these forums, other too besides here and after 10 years and reading countless posts I have come to believe that the word  always brough up in posts"Traditional" is actually guy code for keeping control on your relationship. I know many will disagree, but I believe this wholeheartly.
 
KB

[Alabamaboy!]

I could even imagine a next step to the scenario where the now older second wife scoops up a young hard body guy from Rio and has her bon bon after the older husband kicks the bucket!

And I don't even think the older husband would even care since he will already be 6 feet under.

[Alabamaboy!]

Like I said , each to there own. i have absolutly no problem with a wife that works and wants to better herself  and grow as a person as long as the home is not affected . My kids are in afterschool and are able to play with there friends, if my son came home after school all he would do is watch TV or read. He is socialy much more adapt being around other children.some women like being at home all the time, but my wife would drive herself crazy . Her job pays ok, nothing to get too excited about, but it is not about the money, it is about her enjoying what she is doing in life and as the old saying goes"IF MAMA AINT HAPPY, AINT NOBODY HAPPY" and that goes for whatever culture the person comes from. I look at these forums, other too besides here and after 10 years and reading countless posts I have come to believe that the word  always brough up in posts"Traditional" is actually guy code for keeping control on your relationship. I know many will disagree, but I believe this wholeheartly.
 
KB

Nowadays the term "traditional" would be the women making low wages and paying most of it for child care. The stay at home mom is more of a novelty or radical way to live in the US.

I don't think there is any problem with either way to live as long as it is thoroughly discussed before the wife gets here. Any changes from the plan, by either party,  would be kind of "bait and switch" IMO. Not saying that it should automatically result in destruction of the marriage, but would certainly not help much. Especially if the husband does not like that kind of household dynamics and actually got divorced in the past for some of these exact reasons.

[Kiltboy1]

Nowadays the term "traditional" would be the women making low wages and paying most of it for child care. The stay at home mom is more of a novelty or radical way to live in the US.

I don't think there is any problem with either way to live as long as it is thoroughly discussed before the wife gets here. Any changes from the plan, by either party,  would be kind of "bait and switch" IMO. Not saying that it should automatically result in destruction of the marriage, but would certainly not help much. Especially if the husband does not like that kind of household dynamics and actually got divorced in the past for some of these exact reasons.

This I would agree with, bait and switch is just a bad thing. Would love to debate this more, but off to the PGA Tour event now as my boy Ernie Els tees off in a little over an hour
 
KB Out

[JimD]

It would be interesting to have Innocent Vixen weigh in on this one.

[JimD]

Bama a question. If when your wife comes to the US she wants to take English As A Second Language at a community college like JymmyinStLouis´ wife did would that be cool?

[Jeff S]

Raising kids is a lot more work and money these days that it was years ago. When I was a kid schools were good, safe and basically free. No kid gave a crap what kind of clothes anyone else had on, you spent your summers with pickup baseball games, climbing trees, catching tadpoles, not karate lessons, x-boxes and whether you have the right brand label on your shorts. The generation before, people raised kids to reduce the workload around the house and farm, and make more money for the family. Now it costs - huge, and takes a lot of work work to raise them. That's why people have fewer kids - because they take work, chauffeuring around, and buying all the stuff needed. It was boy scout camp outs, not rock and roll fantasy camp, piled in the back of a station wagon not belted into a child seat in a minivan watching your own DVDs, hand-me-downs not Abercrombie and Fitch.


It isn't just women - how many of you guys want 10 kids?

[fathertime]

Raising kids is a lot more work and money these days that it was years ago. When I was a kid schools were good, safe and basically free. No kid gave a crap what kind of clothes anyone else had on, you spent your summers with pickup baseball games, climbing trees, catching tadpoles, not karate lessons, x-boxes and whether you have the right brand label on your shorts. The generation before, people raised kids to reduce the workload around the house and farm, and make more money for the family. Now it costs - huge, and takes a lot of work work to raise them. That's why people have fewer kids - because they take work, chauffeuring around, and buying all the stuff needed. It was boy scout camp outs, not rock and roll fantasy camp, piled in the back of a station wagon not belted into a child seat in a minivan watching your own DVDs, hand-me-downs not Abercrombie and Fitch.

 

Hey Jeff, you are certainly correct it is a lot of work and complicated to have children.  For the most part, I think kids were happier healthier lot when they where climbing trees and collecting tadpoles and coming home at dusk rather than demanding Abercrombie and Fitch and playing x-box.
  I would love to hear Bear's perspective since he had 3 little ones with his young wife from the Philippines, and he was far from a spring chicken. Has anybody heard from him? he has been gone from here for a long time.


Fathertime! 

[InnocentVixen]

Haha "breeding your latina" reminds me of those times in online dating sites when guys would tell me they were interested in having their own little football team, I of course would wish them the best and run for the hills!!


Planificacion familiar is given at school, but yes before that the place was full of signs and you could hear about it everywhere, those things were done because they were trying to reach all kinds of people, including uneducated people, the country has made big efforts over the years so even indigenous tribes that live far away get at least basic education, long gone are the days were they welcomed a big family thinking of how much easier it would be to work at the fields or that they would not be punished by god for thinking ahead.


In fact there was a tradition here in Mexico that the youngest daughter was not to get married but to take care of her parents in their old days, that was the kind of mentality I guess, why hire a nurse if you can make one


There are still big families of course, but that is a personal choice, one thing that I've noticed though is that only childs are very rare and married couples are usually considered very solid after the second child is born, I have not noticed the priorities have changed that much, women still seem to put family first but now they actually sit down and think the kind of life you can provide for them, why struggle with 10 kids when you could give them such a better life if you stopped at 3?



Like KB mentioned, being a career woman doesn't mean she will not care for her family or not want to have kids, even the most liberal women I know still yearn to find someone and have a family someday regardless if they want to keep their job or not.


So if you are one of those guys that want to have tons of kids, just look for one that feels the same, shouldn't be that hard to find or to convince her that 4 kids is better than 3, this is a recurring joke with my boyfriend, he already has a little one so when he says he wants 2 so I tell him that means I would only have one and that would be his 2nd child... he adds "well yes, one and the oopsie"

[michaelb]

Thanks for the reply, IV. speaking of having your own football team, that's a running joke in my ex's family. She was the fourth or fifth child of her mother, alas, I never met the lady, because she died when my ex was 14. So her father married a much younger woman and had five or six more with her, and "a football team in the family" is what they call them......I'll give him credit, though, he's in his eighties and only a year or two ago sold off his dairy cow heard (20 some odd if them, and he worked them himself) and now only raises chickens.

[Alabamaboy!]

Bama a question. If when your wife comes to the US she wants to take English As A Second Language at a community college like JymmyinStLouis´ wife did would that be cool?

Sure, eventually. But that would not be at the top of the list of importance I hope. She has been living almost one entire year now taking 5 day/week English classes which should be sufficient now after almost 2 years of supposedly studying with computers, private lessons, books, etc. even before the classes at Colombo. So at this time I think it is time for her to start being a wife and mother and not so much a schoolgirl. I would not be a happy camper building my schedule around transporting my wife to her classes or coming home from work while she goes to her study group or something. This is 2011 and she should be able to get a good amount of studying online for now, then we can work on community college, driving lessons, etc.

After she starts contributing a bit to become part of the household and family then we can start to have that discussion. But for the first year or so, I think it will not be a priority.

[Colgando]

This is an interesting thread. My novia would need to continue her career as an elementary school teacher and as a teacher of languages. She would do her job for free and she was purpose built for it. She would not be fulfilled in life if she was not teaching. I am very pleased with this, being a teacher has added much wisdom to her from dealing with parents and their children, it has given her discipline and maturity beyond her years with the level of responsibility she has.


The cool thing to me is that being a teacher is a nice career for a mother and wife I think. She could be off work by the middle of the afternoon and have the summers and holidays off from work. My novia is committed to staying home with the kids when they are infants as she does not want to take her children to day care, which I like. The novia is young, so if she were to come to the US, she would have plenty of time to go to school, become fluent in English and build a profile as a teacher in the US, then she could have kids later on. She speaks intermediate English now and we want to learn French, Italian and Portuguese together after we both become fluent in Spanish and English respectively. I am in no rush at all to have kids as I am young myself, so she could decide to go ahead and have babies and stay at home with them, or she could go to school and establish herself as a teacher in the US, I am fine with either option, but I would prefer for her to establish herself as a teacher because I know she needs to be teaching to be fulfilled in her purpose.

[braziliangirl]

Maybe they have finally learned "La familia pequeña vive mejor"?  (Since you were talking about Brazil, here it is in Portuguese, according to Google translate: A pequena família uma vida melhor).

Uma família pequena vive melhor.

We never had these kind of ads here, but the government does give pills and condoms for free to anyone.

no official government policy has ever promoted birth control

This is not accurate. But the article in general is good, and the six-point plan is pretty accurate. When I read  fathertime's post I though the author was clearly a feminist that didn't know much about Brazilian culture or history and tried to apply her American logic to some points and that just didn't work.

Then I noticed that who did this was fathertime, with his thoughts.

Here are some clarifications:

It seems that the birth rate in Brazil has plummeted from 6.5 per lady to 1.9.  This change occurred over a span of 40 years.

40 years ago the country was mainly rural, so people needed to have more kids to work in the land. Also, there was no access to birth control (or even TV) on rural houses.

Soon the ladies are the breadwinners and wear the pants.  The men are no longer very important and are playing video games and traipsing around the house in skirts and high heels.  The ladies don’t want to have sex very often with these girly men and they sure as hell don’t have much respect for these guys and don’t want them to father their child.

You guys have to stop assuming that working women in Brazil (or Latin America) are like working girls in the USA. And even that Brazilian guys are like American guys. (If they were, I wouldn't be looking for a foreign.)

But to just work for the sake of working or that is your claim to fame that makes you "complete" or boosts your self esteem or whatever reason? That seems just kind of strange to me.

Especially strange when the woman makes $8-10/hour and then pays a babysitter the same to care for the kids. And then pays someone else to help clean the house.

I agree with the first paragraph. About the second, keep in mind that the reality of a Brazilian woman, working in Brazil is different then a Latina working in the USA. Here, someone that have an office job makes at least 3x of what a nanny makes. And the nanny is also the cleaner in most of the cases. Here, in most cases, when the guy can afford to keep the home by himself, the woman won't leave children at home to go work as "assistant manager at Chili's".

All the working women I know (of course that doesn't mean it's the same for all women in Brazil) dream about working just part time so they can spend more time with they children. I've seen many crying on the first day of work after maternity leave. I've seen some change jobs so they could have 6 months of maternity leave instead of just 4. I've never seen a colleague of a friend put the work before their husbands and children.

I have so much more to say, but I have better things to do. My guy gets here on Tuesday, and I want to look my best for him.

By the way, I took a full week off from work, right after a promotion and with some opportunities to show my work going on, just to be with him.

[InnocentVixen]

congrats BG!! I am so excited for you, for both your promotion finally being here and your guy about to go there 


abrazos~

[Colgando]

I have so much more to say, but I have better things to do. My guy gets here on Tuesday, and I want to look my best for him.

By the way, I took a full week off from work, right after a promotion and with some opportunities to show my work going on, just to be with him.

Sounds awesome, I hope you'll have a great time together! 


This waiting until October for my next trip is killing me and my novia, I am happy your beau is arriving shortly, enjoy every moment you have together!

[Jeff S]

Have fun BG. We're expecting a trip report from you too - even though it was his trip.