What to discuss BEFORE the engagement & marriage

[robert angel]

Most of us who've gotten to the point where we've FINALLY (we think) decided to ask ONE woman to marry us, have invested a lot of emotional, as well as financial capital, in the whole process by that point.   
 
 
Nobody wants to call it off after 'all that' and even if you get feet as cold as dry ice at the last minute, a lot of people will walk down the aisle anyways--we think we've come too far, invested too much, involving too many people, to turn back. We try and think positive.   What's odd is that as we move along with this whole 'falling in love' thing, by the time we're close to feeling like 'popping the question', a lot of us have more or less been effected by what some call the 'love bug'--which sometimes can cause us to lose objectivity, the ability to see things clearly and to just act kind of love struck, sort of 'punch drunk' if you will. I bet the brain's neurological chemistry has even changed by this point and there's things we're all but blind to that in a 'normal' situation would give us great pause.
 
   
Typically, we've already talked about a lot of stuff on-line and spent time together, meeting not just her in her own homeland and culture, but usually her family and friends as well. That tells us a lot, if we're paying enough attention--but not enough, I don't think. After all, you're still kind of in a 'fairy tale' land still. There's typically a lot of smiles, hugs, kisses and gifts, without jealousy, nasty in laws or siblings with hidden agendas--at least not yet.   But have we asked the really hard questions--the awkward, embarrassing ones? Most have discussed whether they want kids or not, expected work and school scenarios and the basic nuts and bolts that will make up your everyday lives.   
 
 
But have we discussed best and worst case scenarios--the 'what if's'? Have we been honest about our tempers, our habits, all our likes and dislikes--how we really get along with our families or if we have children from a previous marriage what they're really like, compared to kids back in her culture? Surely she's asked ALL about your ex wife if you had one and why you split--but have you basically told a one sided tale of why it failed?--A classic 'she done me wrong' kinda story?
 
 
I think part of what hangs a lot of us up later on is that right up to this point, and most certainly when you visit her in her country--you're both typically on 'best behavior'--in the 'fairy tale' like land described above. You have saved money to spend, are 'living large' typically in some exotic locale and if you ask me, that's sort of the 'honey moon before the honey moon'--it's just fantastic, often the best days you'll ever enjoy.   
 
 
What I'm saying is we're not really quite our actual 'selves' until AFTER the honey moon's over and I'd guess for even 6 months, maybe a year after that in most cases. Some marriages are obviously disasters and splits may occur by then, but I think most last at least a year or two.   So how are we going to MAXIMIZE our chances that she doesn't come to find that YOU,---the guy she kissed and fell in love with, isn't REALLY a prince after all--that you're actually some ugly horny toad, with warts and all, peeing and making a mess of your 'home'--your 'love nest'?   
 
 
And the SAME question applies to her. How are YOU going to, as sure as humanly possible, try and find out if she's REALLY the way you think she is and that she's not likely to be using you and not deliver on promises and vows you made together?    How can you get the best idea before you wed as to whether or not the woman you thought would bring great character, body heat and perhaps even children into your lives, as you create a 'home', doesn't really want to embrace that and a new nation and its culture after all--that she doesn't even want to risk breaking a finger nail and would prefer you slept on the couch instead of cuddling up to her?   
 
 
Well guys--first the bad news--there's NO sure fire way to do that.   
 
 
BUT--I think if you're as open as possible and ask some probing questions observe each other, your friends and families  as objectively as possible and share with each other your dreams and nightmares, your strengths and weaknesses--things which come hard to ask and express, that if you do that, it will maximize your chances of having a better shot at success. There are no guarantees even then--people can change, grow closer together or grow apart, develop new bad habits and fall into destructive patterns. We deal with risk every day.   
 
 
But I think like the old proverb says: 'A stitch in time will save you nine"--that if we are proactive before we ask for her hand, our chances for happiness are greater and we'll probably be less likely to feel as if after 'all that' it all went bad and your lives were ripped apart, leaving you to pick up the pieces, regroup and decide whether or not to get up and try again.   
 
 
Hoping to avoid misery down the road--what should you ask and do, what should you look for, what in a relationship constitutes deal breakers, yellow or red flags --things that may make you sadly 'call it off' and start again? What do you think you can do before you marry, to maximize the chances that your marriage will be happy and lasting?   
 
 
So, what are you going to do, watch for and ask to avoid getting burned--BEFORE you 'pop the question?' 

[Jhengsman]

The "my past sins" email went out before we got to the point of checking passport expiration dates and vacation schedules. When something did come up after we were married I had already admitted it I really have no fear that something in my past would come to bite me. She happened to come around just after the time I had done all of the confessions before a men's group so I doubt there is anything out there.


However if the Tea Party should nominate me and it looks like I can give a politician a race the media and political consultants will have a treasure chest full of material.


She did try to hide some things and it almost lost me. Is there more who knows

[brettb]

Rob, Thanks for this topic. I am interested to hear others input...as again top notch posting!!

[maritime04]

When I got my NOA2, I thought wow this is really happening, and I am getting married. THIS IS FOR REAL.
 
I have my doubts, not so much can we live together but will things change.
 
Will she always love me, will I always love her; what happens if this or that happens ect.. That’s life.
 
I cannot imagine how hard it is for couples, who marry only after a few days together, but great long lasting marriages occur, sometimes even couples who have dated and known each other for years cannot make it last.
 
I have to remind myself that will need patients and stamina to continue working on the relationship and not take it for granted. I keep thinking about what hurdles we have to overcome especially if we decided to get married then move back to the USA.
 

[Researcher]

    Great post Robert.I think realizing the things you have mentioned is a good advantage.Sometimes those that have never been married don't realize these things and take marriage too lightly or think divorce is a cakewalk.Of course, dating and wife hunting should be fun while paying attention "out of the corner of your eye".When you do get serious with a woman it is a good thing to discuss certain things so there are no surprises.Luckily my wife is the person I married and I am shocked at this.Normally that isn't the case.I always thought that there would be something she was hiding about herself or something I would notice that even she didn't realize about herself.But after living with her for a few years now she is a "what you see is what you get" kinda person.

     But even so we still discussed many things before marriage.Future plans like children, career, that sort of thing.But I really didn't discuss things about my personality.I tried to be as real as I could with her and let her see for herself.I have always heard that each person has three sides to them:1)The person other people see 2) The person we think we are 3)The person we really are. Some people match closely in all 3 cases while some are 3 different people.It's a matter of perception. There is nothing wrong with discussing our perception of who we are as it may match how we are percieved later on.But after living with me for a few years my wife has pointed out things about me that I never realized....and she is right.

     So I would say to discuss the big things.For example, I know that most Colombians are non-confrontational. I am sure that I am not that way....I'm sure even you guys have realized that by now!!! HAHAHA!...So I told her up front that I am this way and if a situation arises I may not be the nice guy she knows.Sometimes being an "A" hole is called for....of course I call it being assertive and sometimes is the only way to get things done.So, she wasn't surprised when we bought a new car and I got irate in the dealership when they tried to rip us off for $4000.I won't go into detail but we didn't get ripped off.

     Researcher

[robert angel]

Thanks, Researcher,
 
One of the things I'm glad about--maybe I should actually be embarrassed about really-but anyway--there were several times my wife and I were together the first times, where I lost my temper, panicked and just in general, showed my arse big time. I don't embarass easily either. I think maybe God gave me my children to make me feel embarrassed more of the time. (but more typically proud, of them)
 
 
But I sometimes do things in public, most always unintentionally, that do embarass my wife. you know, the 'sticking your finger in the cake' kinda thing, or me saying something to a Filipina that I had NO idea could mean five different things, four of which were awful or at best 'tactless' in their mind and culture.
 
 
Remember "Mad Magazine" and Alfred E Neuman? His quote: "What, me worry?"
 
 
At least with Filipinas and social situations, that quote DEFINITELY doesn't fly.
 
 
So she points these things out to me later in private and if I can remember actually doing such a thing, I'll fess up that 'yea-that was kinda stooopid of me, babe' and try and at least act contrite and embarassed. It works for us and it's 92% honest on my part. (maybe 93%) I really do feel bad when I've made her mad, sad  or embarassed (I mean, who wants to have to deal with that?) and I thank my lucky stars that typically in a short while, we're past it--she's her usually warm. nice self again. My ex would carry that grind for weeks....

 
But initially--back in her country, they typically involved situations like where where I thought I'd lost my pass port, camera, lost or misplaced a big wad of money, was getting ripped off by taxi drivers for the 99th time and a host of other things. When I get that way--when I can't find something that at least 'I' think is important, VERY few people would want to be around me, as I'm pulling out drawers, dumping the contents, 'rearranging the furniture' looking under and around everything--basically acting like a mad man. Bonkers--totally daft--as if being in such a state of mind facilitates 'finding' anything! I mean hell--I'd lost my mind already even!
 
Of course, I'd ask her where it was and if she didn't know, she'd explain quite nicely that she didn't, but I'd never DREAM of stopping to say "Why--thank you any way honey". I'd just continue on my rampage, like a bull in a China shop, after he'd backed up and caught some broken plates up his rear at that. Not a pretty sight.
 
My wife once asked me in exasperation:
 
"WHY do you ALWAYS ask me where everything is???"
 
Without batting an eye, in a cool collected way, I responded:
 
"Because you always know, honey".
 
 
Sometimes, I think that's one of the reasons why God made women different from men! Thank you, Jesus--thank you Lord!
 
 
Nonetheless, my reply didn't make her feel any better than I felt, when I asked the Jehovah Witnesses WHY they always come ringing my door bell at 8:00 on Saturday mornings and they calmly responded, with Dr. Spock worthy logic:
 
"Because that's when your home". (Tit for tat)
 
 
But hey-this post is about ME, ME and Me, right? 
 
So anywho, my wife seeing me acting (at times)  like a clueless idiot who couldn't find his own shoes even if they were on his feet, being rude to 'customer service providers, etc. etc, did give her some 'clues' to the 'many interesting facets of Robert' and in doing so, Researcher, I was acting (I think) exactly like you wisely said:
 
>>I tried to be as real as I could with her and let her see for herself.<<
 
It works--for 'better or worse'---be yourself!
 
And boy, did I ever! 
 
 

[fathertime]

 

     So I would say to discuss the big things.For example, I know that most Colombians are non-confrontational. I am sure that I am not that way....I'm sure even you guys have realized that by now!!! HAHAHA!...So I told her up front that I am this way and if a situation arises I may not be the nice guy she knows.Sometimes being an "A" hole is called for....of course I call it being assertive and sometimes is the only way to get things done.So, she wasn't surprised when we bought a new car and I got irate in the dealership when they tried to rip us off for $4000.I won't go into detail but we didn't get ripped off.

     Researcher

Come on man, tell us what they tried to pull and how you reacted!  I get a kick out of these stories!


Fathertime! 

[Researcher]

    Hey Robert, some of that sounds like typical wife stuff though.I think alot of women marry a guy knowing he has flaws and figures she can change him.I make an effort to anyway, change that is.My wife always wants me to look neat and "organized". I always figured she didn't want to be seen out with a slob and I was partially right.She told me that if I wasn't "organized" then that reflected bad on her as a wife and she didn't want people to think that she didn't care about her husband's appearance.So she gives me the "once over" before we go out in public and makes adjustments accordingly.

      Researcher

     

[robert angel]

    Hey Robert, some of that sounds like typical wife stuff though.I think alot of women marry a guy knowing he has flaws and figures she can change him.I make an effort to anyway, change that is.My wife always wants me to look neat and "organized". I always figured she didn't want to be seen out with a slob and I was partially right.She told me that if I wasn't "organized" then that reflected bad on her as a wife and she didn't want people to think that she didn't care about her husband's appearance.So she gives me the "once over" before we go out in public and makes adjustments accordingly.

      Researcher
 

Excellent point--same thing here. Our walk in closet isn't really that big and we've run out of room long ago. So the clothes my wife irons sometimes get a few wrinkles and it bothers her--like you said, she feels it reflects on her too.
 

I try and explain that even if she 're irons' it, in 2 or 3 hours, it'll be wrinkled again. But noooo--even if we're running a bit late, she'll all but beg me to take 'those off please', put a thick towel on the kitchen counter spritz a little water on the towel and 're iron' the pants and shirt.

No matter we're running late and I tell her "no--not needed--people don't look or even care if there's a few wrinkles" And 99% of the AW's I work with wouldn't notice if I was wearing a wrinkled shirt inside out, or have gone hours with my collar in the back up---or with a cotton cue tip still left in my ear.  I know that's true because it's hapened. They just don't care or maybe they notice and find it amusing.
 
Of course, she replies: "I care".
 
Since we've wed, she's asked me to buy all cotton clothes, stuff that's a bit more 'styling' with out being 'too edgy'.  No more wash and wear, polyester, 70's style plaid shirts that go so well with my striped pants that ride high enough to show my black or white socks any more.

I tell ya, if I lose her, I'm going to have to pay as much for a new wardrobe that's wash n wear again than any other 'exit expenses'

   

[InnocentVixen]

I love this threads!
Not that it really applies to me because the relationship I am in is so new and I've never been engaged, but it's nice to read this things specially the little wife/husbands stories, besides, I think it's a woman thing to go all "awww" with this sort of stuff.


For all is worth I always try to get the hard questions out of the way before even considering meeting and will answer any question with as much detail as the other person wishes, though I must admit it's easier for me to give details than to avoid giving them, sometimes I give too much information I think.


Saludos from hot/sunny Sonora!

[robert angel]

Innocent Vixen,
 
 
It really feels great to hear that someone like you or Brazilliangirl  get something, maybe more than the usual, out of one of the threads us guys are posting on. Your perspectives are even more valuable, as we don't --in my opinion anyway, have enough females who post and when you two post, you can be sure a lot of us guys 'tune in'.
 
You both add a perspective that is excellent and seems from the heart and it's nice to see how women view some of the things us guys post. It's hard for a lot of guys, including me, to change how we see things-it's like our minds, eyes and ears are 'hard wired' differently, but I know the things you post really do help.
 
I hope your current relationship is still going well. It seems 'different' from what I typically expect to read, but none of that 'different' worries me in the least--you're just maybe a little more different from each other than most couples who seem to have something good growing, like you two seem to have.
 
In our case, my wife and I are (obviously I guess) VERY different types of people and for the most part, that adds more positive 'extras' to what we have than it does negatives. I guess the negatives are when we don't understand how to best handle differences that stem from our cultures and some times, our personalities may clash a bit--again tied into how we were raised and 'see things'.
 
But hey--the important thing is we know what works for us and what doesn't and still could use a little work and we keep trying.
 
Again, thanks for all your great posts,
 
Rob

[Bob_S]

But how do you know you even have any faults till you get married?  Then and only then you will have someone to point them out to you.  Heck, until I got married, I had no idea my feet stank, I snored like a chainsaw, and I was scatter-brained.   

[robert angel]

   
 
    Folks, this was posted a few days back in Trip Reports under  Re: Lovely Vietnamese girl, but then moved to another thread, and I said right after that, I'd create a new thread about 'Things to discuss BEFORE etc and put it there (here as it turns out)  in the interest of continuity and because I ALWAYS stay 'on topic' in a thread (yea, right!?)  Anyways--here's the repost:     
 
 
Some of the things we've said (posted) here before--even stories, do merit repeating and things in this thread are certainly a good example of that, as there's always a new guy --or a few of them, who even if they DO muck around the archives--and I don't know if many do, they may not get the advice that's 'here and now'.


Researcher kind of alluded to what I'll add (again) when he posted:


>> don't marry someone expecting to change them. When I got serious with a woman I wanted to know more about who she really was, warts and all.On the way I would ask myself if I could live with this woman.<<


I'm pretty sure that he'd probably recommend that YOU be as up front and open to her as much as possible about any bad habits, behaviors, etc that YOU may have as well as try and find out about HERS.


They might not even be what you see as 'bad habits'--but for example--do you like to stay up till 2 or 3 AM sometimes, while she's always in bed by 10PM?--that would be a problem later on, I think. If you're the type who may go out fishing for a couple days, realize the fish are thick and biting and decide--'hey', my cooler can handle it and I've got the bait and fuel--I'll stay out FIVE days'--she ought to know you can be 'so inclined".

My best friend is married for 27 years now to a lovely Japanese woman. Charlie will go five states west of ours and go elk hunting, telling his wife, Keiko--"probably be three days"--then sometimes he'll just KNOW there's an elk over the next ridge and he'll be five days on the hunt. She KNEW what she was getting into.


You snore like a ripsaw? "Tweet" your Weiner"? Like to wear dresses and heels on occasion? TELL her. Smoke or occasionally or dabble in 'recreational drugs'--well guys, believe me, she's gonna find out sooner or later--'sooner' is usually better, especially if it's something she'll accept. My wife? She would leave--heck, she'd have never married me for starters.


But there are some bad habits I occasionally exhibit, that I won't go into here--I'm SURE nobody wants to know anyhow and besides, my posts are too damn long already!


Anyway, I made it a POINT to tell my now wife many, many times about them, and wayyy before we married. I even tried to exaggerate them sometimes! To be honest, there were some 'whoah' moments there, as "Guys in the USA", compared to "Guys back in the province back home' were compared in her head. She thought about it all, weighed them all over--so did I about hers--we discussed things--many things--she told me what she felt was acceptable, borderline and OK and we pretty much covered most of it, Money, sex subjects, religion and rock n roll, to name just several. I told her what I wanted, expected and hoped for and she shared hers too.


Discussing them in depth--habits, 'peccadilloes' (I love that word!) whatever you want to call them--try and find what you both have--get them--and any skeletons in your closets--out in the open.


Has it worked for us? Yes and no. Somethings you can describe, but until you've actually experienced and lived with it, her style as well as your own--you don't fully realize what you're getting into. But overall, I'd have to say for here and now, YES--it's working although we sometimes have to readjust things for 'balance' shall we say--meeting in the middle--but I think that's generally part of a good marriage anyway. We're always 'working on it'.


I love her for how she's so different than me, as much as I do for how much she's a part of me and for what we do and love together. I'm glad we're different. Somethings she does are a mystery to me still and somethings I do she can't quite grasp either. Man and woman, cultures colliding, combining--Mars and Venus--kisses and hand grenades---all in the mix. If she was exactly like me--I'd probably hate her!



But hey---If being up front didn't work and she seems to think your more like a mangey, unacceptable dog, unsuitable for marriage and you still want to 'give it a go', ask her if she'll at least pretend that every day is "Be kind to animals day" and maybe it'll work out after all!

[InnocentVixen]

Thanks for the re-post Rob, I had not read it before! it's great information.


Like you used to do with your now wife, I used to exaggerate a point here and there to make sure the guy really is ok with it if it's something I consider very important since in my experience some men tend to block out what they don't like to not ruin their little fantasy.


In the relationship I am now things are flowing a lot more naturally, feel less of an interview since I think we covered that via email a long time ago but even then it didn't had that feel to it and there is no rush to get to know each other because we will have the chance to get to do so in person, that is a luxury many posters don't have due distance, paperwork and schedules, though I must admit this delay for me to visit him has been a bit hard on me, but whatever happens I believe it will be definitely worth it, actions speak louder than words after all, it might sound weird to you but I cherish our long phone conversations about nothing, there are still some things we haven't covered but we will get there.

[KenC]

Good topic.
 
There are many levels of a developing relationship leading up to marriage.
 
I believe the first step is to truly understand who you are looking for in a spouse.  Sounds simple, but isn't.  There are even different levels to this step.  In general, you may decide age, children or not and maybe even country, but that doesn't zero in on most of the details.  Do you want a working wife?  Do you want future children?  Does she have a compatible personality, morals and character?  Is she beautiful enough?  Or too beautiful?  Some of these traits can be found by a simple review of a profile, while others take time and correspondence.  And many need to be relayed in general conversation and not direct questions.  This process takes time.
 
It is more important to understand how your potential future partner comes to conclusions than it is to know what the conclusion is.  How does she process her decisions?  What are her priorities?  What are the things which she has no interest?
 
Many men seeking foreign wives are seeking to fill a "wife vacancy" rather than a true life companion.  This causes for a rush  into marriage that most likely will doom it from the beginning.  I know this will not be popular here, but the waiting time for visas is almost a blessing in disguise.  Forcing a couple to wait usually leads to a better understanding of each other.  Even to experience the frustration together as a couple is an eye opening experience.  Of course this calls for an open mind and not for someone who thinks it is too late to not jump.  (Pity on them)
 
Spending time in person is, of course, the best way to accomplish familiarity.  This is a way for couples to know how they act together as a couple.  How does she handle disagreements?  How does she handle your romantic advances?  How do the two of you get along when your both tired? Or before your morning coffee?
 
Personally, I do not want to make the final decision until after my fiancee experiences my life style in America.  I do not want any surprises down the road for either of us.
Ken
 
 

[Zon]

I remember KenC from RWD 3 years ago, are you one in the same?

I remember things did not work out with your Russian woman.  In hind sight, why?  And more important, where are you now?

Best of luck

[KenC]

I remember KenC from RWD 3 years ago, are you one in the same?

Yes

I remember things did not work out with your Russian woman.  In hind sight, why?

"Work out" is a relative term.  We had a happy marriage for 11 years and remain friends now.  Our age difference (25yrs) finally caught up with us.

  And more important, where are you now?

Best of luck

I've met a wonderful Chinese woman and have started the next chapter in my life.  BTW I have been a PL member since '98
Ken

[Osa]

Excellent point--same thing here. Our walk in closet isn't really that big and we've run out of room long ago. So the clothes my wife irons sometimes get a few wrinkles and it bothers her--like you said, she feels it reflects on her too.
 

I try and explain that even if she 're irons' it, in 2 or 3 hours, it'll be wrinkled again. But noooo--even if we're running a bit late, she'll all but beg me to take 'those off please', put a thick towel on the kitchen counter spritz a little water on the towel and 're iron' the pants and shirt.

No matter we're running late and I tell her "no--not needed--people don't look or even care if there's a few wrinkles" And 99% of the AW's I work with wouldn't notice if I was wearing a wrinkled shirt inside out, or have gone hours with my collar in the back up---or with a cotton cue tip still left in my ear.  I know that's true because it's hapened. They just don't care or maybe they notice and find it amusing.
 
Of course, she replies: "I care".
 
Since we've wed, she's asked me to buy all cotton clothes, stuff that's a bit more 'styling' with out being 'too edgy'.  No more wash and wear, polyester, 70's style plaid shirts that go so well with my striped pants that ride high enough to show my black or white socks any more.

I tell ya, if I lose her, I'm going to have to pay as much for a new wardrobe that's wash n wear again than any other 'exit expenses'

 

I have found that Americans are the only ones who choose to look good, or not, based on who might be where they are going. Everywhere else in the world, people choose to look good, or not, because how it makes them feel about themselves.

[robert angel]

Osa--Hope you're well!
 
I think people almost everywhere have a 'tendency to dress for the occasion'--that could be dancing, a wedding, work--many things. I agree that people I've seen in 3rd world countries will make more of what they do have, including making sure their clothes are as neat as possible and that they do so more than most Americans--never mind "3rd world"--just about the 'whole world'. I've seen street kids in rags, take the last bit of another rag to make a bandanna, maybe turn his or her shorts up into cuffs--anything to add a 'touch of style'--their 'own' style. I think that's cool. I hope folks knew I was joking, meaning I never really wore:
 
>>wash and wear, polyester, 70's style plaid shirts that go so well with my striped pants that ride high enough to show my black or white socks any more<<
 
 
If I did, maybe my wife wouldn't have married me--or at least attempted an 'extreme makeover'--not a good starting sign! But I think I've been effected by a woman's--namely my wife's 'fashion sensibilities'. She's used to heat and humidity and cotton, so she's encouraged 'cotton'. I typically buy what we both shop for and agree 'we' like, she irons. We both help with the wash usually--she's the neat nick about folding and putting away.
 
My idea of 'nice' was khakis from the Gap and maybe a nice polo from there and quite often a really nice 'vee neck' pima cotton T shirts and blazers--'suit jackets'. I like a nice blazer with jeans and so does she.
 
My wife's 'upped the ante' a bit, looking for deals on polo's that have nicer, softer cotton, like Banana Republic, R.L. Polo and Lacoste and such. She's a wiz at finding great deals on first quality stuff--she even knows the time of year different stores tend to have 'blow out' sales.
 
She convinced me that pleated dress pants look too old fashioned and make me look a little chubby. For when the occasion calls for it, she prefers for me to wear dress shirts with button down collars,  but with the collars unbuttoned --thinks it looks 'nicer' and more contemporary.
 
I used to wear Sperry Topsiders almost everywhere, especially once I got to the point where nobody said anything if I wore them to work, socks or not (I do wear socks to work everyday though--lol).  Sometimes, I'd wear running shoes even. But my wife, for some reason, feel that running shoes are for running, or otherwise working out. She's encouraged me to wear stuff like Sketchers sports, nice 'walking shoes' that don't look like running or 'nursing home' shoes, She got me a pair of Vibram "Five Fingers footwear that look kind of 'out there' (comfy though!)--just to name just a few. If we're going out, I let her pick my shoes--and sometimes my shirt too--as she likes for us to 'compliment each other'.
 
Now that we can afford it a bit more with the two of us working, she likes for us to have 'better' shoes, but always putting 'comfort' first. She must be the only five footer (actually a wee bit taller) I know who really dislikes heels. Not just high heels--but even anything beyond standard height heels.
 
Italian style stiletto heels? I think they're sexy as hell, and I got her a couple pairs-- maybe in the back of my mind, to chase her around the bedroom in, but as she can't run too fast, so it's too easy a 'game' sport really. Sometimes, she'll wear a pair of Espadrilles, if the wedge rise is modest. She just doesn't feel the need to 'look' like she's 5'6 tall.
 
So we've compromised and met in the middle. She's very sensitive to me liking what she wears as well--asking me 'are these pants too tight?' "'Is this blouse too much?"  "Which one--which color goes better?"--stuff like that.
 
Something's I won't be moved on and she'll always really dislike. I like a nice soft, well worn (actually prewashed) denim shirt, as well as light yellow/beige flannel shirts when it gets chilly. I like a button front sweater some times, to name but a few things I can't be moved on. In cooler weather, do wear the pullover cotton or wool sweater vests that are more in fashion now and she likes that. It's kind of cute though that the clothes she likes least, I might have to go to the laundry room to find--they don't always 'find their way' into our closet.
 
She's got good taste (and manners) and I've basically let some it it rub off on me. For my two teenage sons and I, we do sometimes look at the curtains on the windows, flowers by the door, the lack of wires connecting the X Box, Play Station and Wii --all no longer in the living room, all the paper plates and Styrofoam containers gone, along with the absence of the once familiar pungent aroma of last week's Chinese takeout and petrified pizza, and we shake our heads and quietly wonder: What the hell happened to our MANCAVE?", but we all agree that overall, we're better for it. Plus, she cooks!. 

[robert angel]

Really looks like everyone's gone 'Latin American' lately!

[Osa]

Asia just seems so far to me.  Looking in Asia (for a bride) didnt even occur to me, though it does seem like there are some very nice, and very domestic, young ladies down there.

[dewey4350]

Ok, Robert I have read all the posts and seen all the comments. I just posted the holding Pattern. So for everybody's information I am right where- Robert"s conversation"is"! I went to the Phillipines reacently and was going to meet a long,long time pen pal. I thought this lady would be the one and no one would talk me out of it. I had payed for the trip in advance I had even sent "my lady" to get all her paper work that she needed to start the process. Things like three valid ID's her health certificate a bank account and some other things, I do not care to mention. Then like two weeks before my departure I caught her in a lie.I know we all paint ourselves as though were a little better than we are but this was a major lie and I could prove it. I could get the documents to prove and make calls to support my findings. None of us are perfect, so I contimplated staying in the US and not going. I actually confronted her and there were more lies to cover the pryor ones. So at a two week time frame I talked to as many people as I could" What Would You Do"? So I decided to go anyway. I knew enough people to make my trip worth while. I told myself if you don't do this- you may never do this and one day you will die- and before you do you will regret never going. Stay with me here!!!! I went had a very good time I have several freinds there now and I met my special someone as well. ( not the liar- she knew that she lost me as the lies compilied) Take Roberts advice I could have made the mistake he talks about. Now I have 6 are 7 new freinds and a new lady freind. And the one thing I am is honest and the one thing she knows I exspect in return is honesty. Bad habbits oh yeah I did not try to hide any she seen all my colors when Delta sent me the wrong ticket and my coffee habit. The bitter melon I spit it out like some one painted my tongue with lead based paint. LOL I have to tell you the food was better than I thought. My clothes, when my lady and I would go out she would wait to see what I would wear and then match me. I could tell she would like more input there. Take it from me show your colors thier not stupid, glass houses are only in books. Save your self some time and money be honest be yourself and be happy. Lifes to short not to!!!!!!

[robert angel]

Dewey,

 
Yours is a great story. You were what my Dad used to call "A stand up guy" in this situation. A lot of guys would've wimped out and either cried in their beer and not flown over, or maybe put themselves in denial that the girl lied and then tried to cover it with more lies, then would have flown over, screwed her for 2 or 3 weeks, visited a few sights, kissed her good bye with a few lies of their own, then flew home and either never talked to her again or a week or two later, after some silence, told her 'I thought about us--and it's over'--low ball behavior.

 
You took the road less traveled, a tougher, higher road , one that offered uncertainty. But often the greatest risks offer the greatest gains and I hope this proves true in your case, as I have a hunch it will.

 
I wish we had a section here on P-L where stories--posts like yours, are saved. Too many guys (like me) rarely, if ever, search through the archives here. Maybe something like this will reoccur, as many of the posts here do revisit subjects--I even recycle some of my own goats here, not even realizing it sometimes.

 
But there ought to be section called 'recommended reading', with perhaps links to further help guys on 'subjects' like this. It wouldn't stop newbies from reading here in 'the main'--after all, it's a carnival in here, with train wrecks,  flame throwers and swallowers to boot--there's enough who come for just for that and probably still will.

 
Anyways--congratulations again on basically 'seizing success from the jaws of defeat' and please keep us posted!

“A quitter never wins and a winner never quits”"
Don't wait. The time will never be just right.”
"Most great people have attained their greatest success just one step beyond their greatest failure.”

Three quotes attributed to Napoleon Hill (1883--1970)

[thekfc]

But there ought to be section called 'recommended reading', with perhaps links to further help guys on 'subjects' like this.

+1

The bitter melon I spit it out like some one painted my tongue with lead based paint. LOL I have to tell you the food was better than I thought.

At first I didn't like it but now I do enjoy eating ampalaya....some stuff just need a little getting use to. 

Take it from me show your colors thier not stupid, glass houses are only in books. Save your self some time and money be honest be yourself and be happy. Lifes to short not to!!!!!!

[Colgando]

Asia just seems so far to me.  Looking in Asia (for a bride) didnt even occur to me, though it does seem like there are some very nice, and very domestic, young ladies down there.

How is it going Osa? You still on track to bring your sweety stateside?