Lovely Vietnamese girl but......

[Flyboy777]

Gents...


Need some advice and guidance on how to proceed here....


I met a lovely 27 year old Vietnamese girl while on a trip to Malaysia (Kuala Lumpur).  who is very much to my liking, which is probably different than most.    I enjoy a woman who is not so hot she has cat whistles from other guys, a woman who dresses a bit more modestly than say a hooker trying to catch a man's eye, a woman who is not so loud to be the obnoxious one at a party.... I think you can catch my drift here.


What this girl does have is a killer smile and lovely personality from the short time we've spent together.


Well, guess what?   Turns out she is indeed a "lady of the evening"!!   I was shocked as she completely does not fit that profile and she has a quiet personality.   I did meet her in a bar which maybe could have been a slight clue. 


So here's my question/quandary to you all... and it's a rather involved one.


In the US, if a man romantically dates a lady of the evening (LOE), he would probably get [snip] from his family, some friends and society in general because of the stigma of the LOE in the US.   


However, in the Asian culture, while I"m not saying it's right, I get the impression that it's in some ways, just another way to make a buck, so to speak and is not seen with quite as much disdain as it would be in the US. 


Can some of you who know the Asian culture better than I (and I don't know much of it at all...) give me some guidance as to whether or not it's "appropriate" to date this girl in the true romantic sense, a LOE?


We have stayed in contact with each other since I met her a few weeks back and she does say she misses me and she does say she needs money but makes it clear she does not want it from me.     While we were at dinner one night, she told me her dream was to open a nice coffee shop in Saigon (HCM city) and she was quite keen on accomplishing this at some point in the future.  She seemed to have a good future goal and seemed to also have a good head on her shoulders.     


Guys.....  am I making a huge mistake pursuing her and going back to see if things can continue?   I've asked her to come to the country I now live in (not the US) for a week or two and I figure that would be the best barometer available for the time being to see if we click or not.   


I hope this makes sense to a few of you.   And I know you're thinking this:   "He's thinking with the wrong head".    I've thought of that angle here too and I can honestly say that while the physical part is quite nice, its not the main reason I"m interested.   She comes across as a genuine sweet gal who is just "making a buck" to send back home to mom and her 3 year old.   Maybe I'm making excuses for her...   dunno.


Thanks for any input offered.


Kap

[Flyboy777]

Sorry.....


This was meant to be put in the General section.   My bad.


F

[Researcher]

     Wow FB, thanks for sharing that. A woman selling sex as a way to make a buck is more accepted in other countries.The way I have always looked at it for myself is that once a woman crosses the line of selling her body it is difficult to go back.I'm not saying it is impossible or doesn't happen I'm saying that it will always be tempting to make money that way.


     I'd say the big issue here is what you think about it.Do you think it will cause you problems later on down the road if you end up together? What about STDs? Have you thought about the fact that women who do this have a higher risk of catching diseases? I'm not trying to start a big debate on these issues I am just wondering if you have thought of such things.

     Researcher

[michaelb]

Is this woman's name by any chance Suzie Wong? If not, then I'd advise you to let her open her coffee shop without you.  Don't know what country you are in, but quite a few countries won't  issue a visa for people in her profession anyway. Besides, don't the guys here have a motto that goes something like this "You can take the girl out of the bar, but you can't take the bar out of the girl"?

[Capstone]

However, in the Asian culture, while I"m not saying it's right, I get the impression that it's in some ways, just another way to make a buck, so to speak and is not seen with quite as much disdain as it would be in the US. 


Can some of you who know the Asian culture better than I (and I don't know much of it at all...) give me some guidance as to whether or not it's "appropriate" to date this girl in the true romantic sense, a LOE?

My experience is that although sex workers may not be seen with as much disdain in SOME Asian countries as in the US  (they are actually seen with much more disdain in some Asian countries than in the US), never the less they are never seen as someone who would be considered appropriate to date/marry (at least by the overwhelming majority of people) - to do so would carry a pretty heavy stigma. 

[Jhengsman]

My experience is that although sex workers may not be seen with as much disdain in SOME Asian countries as in the US  (they are actually seen with much more disdain in some Asian countries than in the US), never the less they are never seen as someone who would be considered appropriate to date/marry (at least by the overwhelming majority of people) - to do so would carry a pretty heavy stigma.

That's my take, the extended family might play don't ask don't tell with any allowance she sends back home. It is like she sacrificed herself for the greater good. However when she ages out of the sex game then some is forgiven, like when "entertainers" return from a tour of duty in Japan and she then becomes the acceptable bride for the guy who could not attract the society's accepted marriageable class. She will be older, and probably with kids although the kids might think she is the aunt

[fathertime]

 


Guys.....  am I making a huge mistake pursuing her and going back to see if things can continue?   I've asked her to come to the country I now live in (not the US) for a week or two and I figure that would be the best barometer available for the time being to see if we click or not.   

 

Kap

I can't comment on the Asian culture part of things because I'm inexperienced in that respect.  What I will say is that it is probably a mistake to waste your time, but it is your time so use it how you want to.  I'd definitely take a LOT of extra time to get to know her, if the normal dating process is a year, than I'd take two years, to see how she behaves over time.  That has it's drawbacks too, if you know she is going to be working as a prostitute in that time period, that would just kill it for me.   


It would seem that it would be much easier to find a straight nice girl, without this type of baggage. If I remember right, you travel quite a bit.


 Fathertime!




Fathertime! 

[benjio]

I, like FT, definitely have to make it clear that I have no experience with dating and women on that side of the world, but I know more men than I care to admit that have tried to do what you're thinking about doing.

Like Researcher wrote, "once a woman crosses the line of selling her body it is difficult to go back.."

Always keep in mind that women are very emotional creatures. They are driven more by a delicate balance of chemicals in their bodies as supposed to pure logic. Prostitution pays a heavy toll on the emotional well-being of the women that choose to go into that profession. Sex for women is something much more than physical contact for good reason. This is what keeps most women from walking around screwing anything they can like us guys do. When a woman starts to dissociate the emotional aspects of sex that are natural for her, there is a piece of her missing I don't think any of them ever get back...even with years of therapy. This is also the same for women that have been repeatedly molested in their youth. Sexual experiences become something like a bad dream for them, and the only escape from that nightmare is when it ends. This usually makes the act of sex impossible for them to truly emotionally enjoy, no matter how much they love you.

I can tell you a dozen horror stories of gringos marrying women from Colombia they knew were former sex workers. It never works out well for the guy.

[robert angel]

I've met a few guys who married gals who formerly worked in the sex industry--'entertainment'--'sales', 'hostess' --so many cover names. Once a gal gets into it, it really does change her fundamentally. On the one hand, there's often a sense of shame they typically hide well.  On the other hand, they often develop an awareness of some sense of 'empowerment'--that they--in their bodies and behavior, have a coveted 'commodity' one that men--and women--will pay for. And they never forget it either. It's like an addictive drug involving power, pleasure and profit.You know you've got it and how to use it if and when 'the itch' comes back....
 

Once in a while, they get a chance at new life and things work out. I've seen a few get religion, become 'Suzy Homemaker" types, white picket fences and all. But typically, marriages do have rough patches at times and that's when it gets dicey--when they get to 'thinking' and can 'revert' back to their old selves. I'd like to think if she brought along a child--her gratitude for you accepting that would be enough to avoid such problems down the road, but I dunno--it's a hell of a crap shoot and it doesn't look like lucky sevens to me. I'd wouldn't be able to fly straight just thinking about what she might be doing when I was gone, unless I took me some 'stupid pills'. lol.
 

 
And for sure--while I pretty much tell my family and a very few close friends just about everything, good and bad, I would NOT tell ANY of them about her 'past'. family and friends fall out sometimes and that'd be one of the first pieces of dirty trash talk they'd unfairly hit you with and it'd get worse from there on out.
 

 
Doesn't look good to me, Flyboy, it's a long, long shot at best, I'd say from the outside looking in, but stranger things have happened...

[Flyboy777]

Guys...


I genuinely thank you from the heart on this one.   I really think each of you could probably be successful psychologists with the information I'm reading here!!   


Deep down I think I probably knew every item you guys all hit on in your comments....  and you're all right in your assessment I think.    I was just hoping I could be the one to maybe change her.   


I did discuss the child option with her saying that I would happily be a father to her little son.   The one thing that gives me just a glimmer of hope.....  is that she just doesn't seem like the type to do this, but.....  she does.   


I know there are so many other women out there in Asia land.   Why did this one have to have the perfect smile for me and have such a sweetheart of a personality.


I have bid for more trips next month to Malaysia so hopefully I can get a better sense of things like... how long she's been doing this and maybe how engrained it is in her.     I just really would like to take care of her and make it all ok.    Ya, ya... I know:  The White Knight syndrome.   


Ughhhhhhhhhhhh


Thanks guys.   


FB 

[benjio]

But typically, marriages do have rough patches at times and that's when it gets dicey--when they get to 'thinking' and can 'revert' back to their old selves...

LOL! This reminds me of a funny story.

A couple of years ago I met a 63 year old gentleman here in Houston. He was in the security business...surveillance, remote monitoring, firewalls, etc. He always gave me the impression he was ex-"INSERT THREE LETTER GOVERNMENT AGENCY HERE," but who knows. Those guys don't talk about their past even when it's far behind them. Anyway, when I told him I was dating a Colombian girl he looked me dead in the eyes and told me to "be very careful!!!!" He told me, "foreign women are very often not what they seem to be." He proceeded to tell me the story of his ex-wife. A 23 year old blonde bombshell from somewhere in the Ukraine. I'm not sure if he used a marriage agency or just went on his own (because he knew how to speak Ukranian...another reason I thought he was ex-"INSERT THREE LETTER GOVERNMENT AGENCY HERE"); but he did meet a young woman there and he fell in love with ther. A huge part of this guy's business was surveillance for upscale homes here in Houston, so he had hidden cameras all over his house that were connected to the internet. He told me he'd use his house as sort of a display model for clients that he was trying to sell security packages to, but it's always kind of hard for me to believe he wasn't intentially spying on his new 23 year old wife. For the first few months she was just going to the gym, making groceries and coming home, but then he had to start travelling for weeks at a time. After a few more months I guess she got comfortable, because she invited her personal trainer from the gym over. A few visits and they were getting freaky all over the house....all this on camera mind you. When they guy saw what she had done, he didn't even show her the tapes. He came home, told her he wanted a divorce and asked her to pack her things and leave. He bought her a one way ticket back home and told her he never wanted to see her again. This guy is easily worth 7 figures, so I guess his wife found somewhere to stay and found one of the best divorce lawyers here in Houston. When the guy got the divorce notice and the notice to withold income for spousal support, he copied the videos and sent them to her lawyer. Rather than go through the embarrassment of other people seeing the video she asked him to buy her a second ticket back home. Someone that he knows in the Ukraine told him soon after that she had worked as a prostitute there before he met her and had returned to doing the same thing.

I still have this gentleman's card if anyone's in need of some "security" by the way. Jejeje...

[robert angel]

Yea Benjio,
 
It can really pay off if you have the time and wiles to see the environment a woman comes from, who she hangs out with, etc. If you're lucky, you might get a clue or two if you can still read a 'clue' logically by that point--typically you're too love blind, in over your head and unwilling to start over and spend ALL that money 'searching' again. So you 'settle' and hope and pray for 'happily ever after' .
 
Even then, if you're a tough, 'wise' cookie, it can take a lot of time and even then sometimes you never find out the 'real deal'--some clues/secrets are too well guarded. Sooner or later, they typically come out--usually 'later'. I had two kids with one woman before I knew I was her ticket--her 'pass' on overstaying her work visa and for her avoiding being deported. So I saved her from going back to a hell hole existence w/o even knowing it for over ten years. She got to keep the big house, the Rolex, diamonds and pearls--the luxury car--I got an empty TV cabinet, my clothes, tooth brush and a bit of our home equity and retirement funds. She will forever despise me for that, ironically---the 'money'--as if my saving her from being sent back and maybe making $6 or $7 a day didn't mitigate that. She's been an American citizen for over two decades now--never voted once. After all--that (registering to vote) might mean serving jury duty!

 
For all she has--if she wasn't miserable, she'd be miserable--she has to keep that hot rock in her gut that represents me, burning always.

 
I have NEVER had a girlfriend that ended anything like that--not a one who wouldn't, years later, still give me a hug and peck on the cheek. In the 12 years since--this woman my 'ex'--who could've passed for a Paris run way model, has never dated a single time. She's not a terrible mom--somewhat cool and remote--is very pragmatic with even our children, but she insists the boys have manners, work hard in school and she's taken them all over the world--from Asia to Alasaka, Toronto to Tennessee, and just this summer, to NYC and Washington DC.  But aside from my sons and two other Filipina friends, each of whom have been happily married about forever, she prefers 'material things' over 'people'. Weird, yes.

 
 
Best one I heard was the rube who married a Ukrainian stunner--adopted her son and took out loans to put her through medical school. 100's of 1000's of $$$ worth.

 
As soon as she graduated and became a low paid 'resident Dr. in training' she divorced him leaving him with all the loans and paying child support for the Ukrainian born child. How bout dem apples? Got a war story to top that?

 
In a case like that when you really don't know for sure, you have to go on 'hunches' too much and by then, typically guys are so love blind that they 'believe what they wanna believe' (but you don''t have to live like a refugee)-->>Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers<<
 
And like that same Tom Petty song says "Somebody, somewhere must have kicked you around some"----how true indeed with these women--they had very unhappy lives coming up.
 

[Alabamaboy!]

For the first few months she was just going to the gym, making groceries and coming home, but then he had to start travelling for weeks at a time.

I think anyone who would leave their hot young wife for weeks at a time, while there is like a 40 year age difference, almost deserves to get cheated on. The fact that she is a former prostitute is another issue. But how could you leave a woman who has only been in the country for a few months alone like that and expect anything other than those results?

Regarding whether or not a prostitute can go legit:  A cousin of my ex wife (Filipina) went to Japan to work as a "Japayuki" with the plan she would work for a couple years, earn enough cash to build the family house in the Phils, and return home to her "normal" life. Her family even promoted  the idea so she could get something in exchange for her youthful beauty before she got old. So she was there for like 3 years, made a bunch of cash, and family built the big 3 story home with real windows, ceiling fans, etc, etc. She also bought them a Jeepney and a motorcycle, animals, and some more land for crops. But when she returned, she was a changed person already. Blonde dyed hair, chain smoker, borderline alcoholic, addicted to material things, and appeared to be in a severe depression. I never kept in touch with her after my ex wife and I split up, but I always wondered what became of her. Because she would not even date when she came back to PI.

Another girl who lived in an upscale subdivision in Singapore, was there as a "domestic helper" on the books, but told my ex wife and her friend that she was really a prostitute, house girl. And the guy was a 70 year old gringo and she was like 20. Anyway she would tell my ex it was no big deal, that the guy was kind of nice and she only was going to do it for a couple years to get some cash for college and help her family. This girl ended up doing exactly that. She returned home to PI, went to school, got her degree, and married a Filipino guy without any problems at all. She did not tell anyone in her family about her life as a prostitute.

So I guess it is possible, but like others have said, a big time long shot.

[Ray]

Flyboy,
　
michaelb made a good point that I would like to expand on. You didn’t say which country you lived in but as an example, when applying for a visa to the USA, this is what she could expect.
　
Some of the questions asked when applying for a spouse and/or fiancée visa:
　
List all places you have lived for at least 6 months since the age of 16.
　
List ALL employment for the last 10 years.
　
Additionally, the following are ineligible to receive a visa: Anyone who has engaged in prostitution or procuring within the past 10 years.
　
She would likely be questioned extensively about why she was in Malaysia and what she did for a living there.

 
She would also need to provide local police clearances for most everywhere she has lived.
　
Bottom line: Prostitutes are not welcome.
　
I have nothing personal against ladies who do this for a living, and I’m sure some of them are really nice, decent people. BUT, marriage to a prostitute is just dumb, especially if she can’t get a visa to come live with you.
　

I know there are so many other women out there in Asia land. Why did this one have to have the perfect smile for me and have such a sweetheart of a personality.

Because that’s part of her job and she is obviously good at it.   
　
My advice: Slap yourself in the face and wake up from this fantasy of reforming her and marrying her, before you get in too deep emotionally.
　
Ray
　

[benjio]

You know, I don't think I've ever heard a "I married a Ukrainian Girl" story with a happy ending....

[robert angel]

It seems to me that some nations have higher percentages of women who can 'turn up' their sex appeal, warmth--just their overall 'sweetness and desirability' quotient, but they can turn it off just as quickly, as they play you, reeling you in like a fish, only to figuratively speaking, fileting you later.


 
Some are just cool and calculating and I sometimes think they have ice water for blood. Some of those nations have women that are about as pretty as pretty gets, but that only makes things worse if you find out that she can be proportionately equally ugly on the inside.


 
I'm not talking about the tendency for a lot of totally gorgeous women to generally be higher maintenance than less striking beauties. That generally comes with the territory. It goes way beyond that.

[Jeff S]

I was just hoping I could be the one to maybe change her.

That's an extremely naive attitude - and it's one that NEVER works. If she isn't exactly what you want or at least having things you're willing to overlook and live with for the rest of your life, she's not for you. My advice would be to never go into any relationship with a project in-mind. That's the serious mistake many women make, but it's just as fatal when men make it.

[robert angel]

That's an extremely naive attitude - and it's one that NEVER works. If she isn't exactly what you want or at least having things you're willing to overlook and live with for the rest of your life, she's not for you. My advice would be to never go into any relationship with a project in-mind. That's the serious mistake many women make, but it's just as fatal when men make it.

Gee Jeff, sound advice indeed!  All seriousness aside, 'Projects in mind' and relationships rarely do work. In fact, you should've seen the results when 'in my mind' I figured I'd take on a new, challenging project. I tried to save some money by being my own plumber!
 
 
 
When my wife came home and saw the new swimming pool in the kitchen, our relationship was almost over then and there!
 

 
On a more serious note--others, as well as myself, have repeatedly mentioned here that marrying someone and figuring--"Oh--she/he has a few bad habits--characteristics--but once we're married and settled down--that'll change", is 'unwise', to put it 'nicely'.
 
 
 
If you marry someone for who they are--not for what you want or hope they will become later, chances are you'll have a lot less disapointment, although someone who seems pretty much exactly what you feel is right--that person, or even you, can change later on as well.

[Researcher]

That's an extremely naive attitude - and it's one that NEVER works. If she isn't exactly what you want or at least having things you're willing to overlook and live with for the rest of your life, she's not for you. My advice would be to never go into any relationship with a project in-mind. That's the serious mistake many women make, but it's just as fatal when men make it.

      Excellent advice.Just as has been said already, don't marry someone expecting to change them. When I got serious with a woman I wanted to know more about who she really was, warts and all.On the way I would ask myself if I could live with this woman.

     Researcher

[robert angel]

Some of the things we've said (posted) here before--even stories, do merit repeating and things in this thread are certainly a good example of that, as there's always a new guy --or a few of them, who even if they DO muck around the archives--and I don't know if many do, they may not get the advice that's 'here and now'.

 
Researcher kind of alluded to what I'll add (again) when he posted:

 
>> don't marry someone expecting to change them. When I got serious with a woman I wanted to know more about who she really was, warts and all.On the way I would ask myself if I could live with this woman.<<

 
I'm pretty sure that he'd probably recommend that YOU be as up front and open to her as much as possible about any bad habits, behaviors, etc that YOU may have as well as try and find out about HERS.

 
They might not even be what you see as 'bad habits'--but for example--do you like to stay up till 2 or 3 AM sometimes, while she's always in bed by 10PM?--that would be a problem later on, I think.  If you're the type who may go out fishing for a couple days, realize the fish are thick and biting and decide--'hey', my cooler can handle it and I've got the bait and fuel--I'll stay out FIVE days'--she ought to know you can be 'so inclined".

My best friend is married for 27 years now to a lovely Japanese woman. Charlie will go five states west of ours and go elk hunting, telling  his wife, Keiko--"probably be three days"--then sometimes he'll just KNOW there's an elk over the next ridge and he'll be five days on the hunt. She KNEW what she was getting into.
 

You snore like a ripsaw? "Tweet" your Weiner"? Like to wear dresses and heels on occasion? TELL her. Smoke or occasionally or dabble in 'recreational drugs'--well guys, believe me, she's gonna find out sooner or later--'sooner' is usually better, especially if it's something she'll accept. My wife? She would leave--heck, she'd have never married me for starters.

 
But there are some bad habits I occasionally exhibit, that I won't go into here--I'm SURE nobody wants to know anyhow and besides, my posts are too damn long already!

 
Anyway, I made it a POINT to tell my now wife many, many times about them, and wayyy before we married. I even tried to exaggerate them sometimes! To be honest, there were some 'whoah' moments there, as "Guys in the USA", compared to "Guys back in the province back home' were compared in her head. She thought about it all, weighed them all over--so did I about hers--we discussed things--many things--she told me what she felt was acceptable, borderline and OK and we pretty much covered most of it, Money, sex subjects, religion and rock n roll, to name just several. I told her what I wanted, expected and hoped for and she shared hers too.

 
Discussing them in depth--habits, 'peccadilloes' (I love that word!) whatever you want to call them--try and find what you both have--get them--and any skeletons in your closets--out in the open.

 
Has it worked for us? Yes and no. Somethings you can describe, but until you've actually experienced and lived with it, her style as well as your own--you don't fully realize what you're getting into. But overall, I'd have to say for here and now, YES--it's working although we sometimes have to readjust things for 'balance' shall we say--meeting in the middle--but I think that's generally part of a good marriage anyway. We're always 'working on it'.
 
 
I love her for how she's so different than me, as much as I do for how much she's a part of me and for what we do and love together. I'm glad we're different. Somethings she does are a mystery to me still and somethings I do she can't quite grasp either. Man and woman, cultures colliding, combining--Mars and Venus--kisses and hand grenades---all in the mix. If she was exactly like me--I'd probably hate her!
 
 
 
But hey---If being up front didn't work and she seems to think your more like a mangey, unacceptable dog, unsuitable for marriage and you still want to 'give it a go', ask her if she'll at least pretend that every day is "Be kind to animals day" and maybe it'll work out after all!
 
BTW---for those of you not asleep by now, If you guys don't mind, maybe I'll create a new thread--topic along the lines of:  "Things to discuss before the wedding" and repost this for insominiacs...

[benjio]

Excellent Post Rob. Always good to hear advice from someone with a successful relationship and details of exactly what goes into making it that way.

[Dave H]

Hey Flyboy,
 
In this case...better to "rent" than to "own!"
 
I don't know about Vietnamese culture...the Philippines is a Catholic country...so in the PI, a BIG NO!

 
Her look or actions might be obvious that she is a prostitute to a Thai or Vietnamese (must advertise somehow), but to us many appear so sweet and innocent. What might be normal dress for the US or Latin America would be quite shocking in the Philippines! It took me some time to figure out which ladies were the ho's in the Philippines (I avoid them).  Many look very conservative, innocent, and sound so religious when they speak.
 
 
Dave

[Jhengsman]

I remember on my first trip to Manila my wife said a prosti was stalking me being the obvious foriengner as we walked along the Baywalk. In my entire time in the Philippines my "whoredar"    only alerted me one time and it wasn't there. It was just a woman in a simple black dress standing outside of an hourly motel as we were stuck in traffic. But I take it the no tell motel serves cheating husbands with their girlfriends and the young  to make single mothers more then they do as a prostitutes business address.


At the beginning I rented all the art house movies about the Philippines available on netflix. I remember that part of the plot of one was that a brothel madam made sure her girls still went to school and to Mass on Sunday

Hey Flyboy,
 
In this case...better to "rent" than to "own!"
 
I don't know about Vietnamese culture...the Philippines is a Catholic country...so in the PI, a BIG NO!

 
Her look or actions might be obvious that she is a prostitute to a Thai or Vietnamese (must advertise somehow), but to us many appear so sweet and innocent. What might be normal dress for the US or Latin America would be quite shocking in the Philippines! It took me some time to figure out which ladies were the ho's in the Philippines (I avoid them).  Many look very conservative, innocent, and sound so religious when they speak.
 
 
Dave

[robert angel]

Re:
 
>>a brothel madam made sure her girls still went to school and to Mass on Sunday<<
 
 
In the Philippines, in general--at least to me and perhaps world wide in general, prostitutes are a paradox.
 
 
I remember in Davao City, two very cute and young prostitutes trying to set up a 'threeway'. When they realized it wasn't going to happen and the church bells rang, they decided to attend mid day mass instead and strolled into the church. I have every reason to believe their faith was strong and that they prayed for honorable things. From what I've seen there, people are more likely to give prayers of thanks for whatever they do have and pray for their loved ones health and safety more than they're likely to pray for riches or against others. Quite different than what I see too often here--different mindset.

 
 
It can be hard to tell 'who's who' and 'what's what' there. Their style of dress often doesn't 'give them away' as to what they're 'out there' for. That's one reason why my wife was kind of 'freaked out' about us going all over the place together. She just KNEW that some of the people, seeing her prettiness walking the malls, hotel and beaches with a Kano older and a foot taller than her--that in their eyes, they were SURE that she was 'hooking'--even though she wore no make up and wouldn't wear shorts or a dress above the knee. Hell--she didn't even own any clothes like that.

 
She was very conscious and embarrassed, because although it's a city--it can seem small at times--she was in her 5th year of her computer engineering program at the university then and if she and I didn't work out and just one person saw us and 'talked it up' as if she was whoring, her reputation undeservedly or not, would've been forever changed. And at her Catholic university--if they decided (unlikely--they know her and her family) that the busy body naysayers were speaking truth, she'd have been thrown out of the university. And they LOVE to gossip and even lie over there--making up malicious stuff, 'just for fun'.

 
At one hotel I stayed at for three weeks, I wasn't even aware that they had plain clothes police watching us all the time. Around mid night, every night, I'd put my now wife in a taxi and send her back to her miserable, no air con, communal bath room boarding house. As much as we wanted to be together 24 X 7, she didn't want her brothers, who also attended college there, to see or to even THINK, that she was staying over night and having sex. Right before I left to head back to the states, the head cop took my wife's bros to the side and told him "You know that Kano is a bit unusual--every night he sends your sister home before too late and the whores across the street all wave at him, some approach him and he's never gone with one--he's never even brought one in for a drink".
 

Geeze louise---if he had said: "Man--that Kano is banging your sister every night, all night, like a 50 peso pistol at a firing range, then going out looking for MORE" (he probably WOULDN'T have let off--but IF he did) her farm raised, strapping strong bros would've torn me a second arse!

 
Paradoxically again, her parents raised her and her siblings very openly about 'the facts of life' telling them how it is, just very matter of fact--w/o a ton of the all too typical 'Catholic Guilt Syndrome' while explaining there were ways and places you didn't want to go to and circumstances you didn't want to end up in. I 'think' that's more common in the PI than in the USA for some strange reason. But anyway, her values were instilled IN her, not driven merely by the fear of the cross. Very open minded people, religious and with high morals, but never wearing them on their sleeves--no 'holier than thou' about them--very unpretentious and able to (in private) make jokes about sex--not making it some deep dark, 'taboo' topic.

 
I've seen--or found out, that girls from even the prestigious Ateneo University there sometimes 'turn themselves out'--some for money, some for a vicarious 'thrill' with a foreigner, I really don't know. I hear even in Japan, some financially well off young ladies will do it to generate cash for that Chanel of Louis Vuitton purse they so desire--that might otherwise be a bit out of their price range.

 
I'll be honest, after I'd send my wife off, I'd sometimes walk around late at night--grab a bite cheaper than the hotel's room service fare, hit an internet cafe, etc. Maybe it was for a vicarious thrill, maybe because I'm a 'yakker'--probably both, but I'd typically see the same 10 or 15 hookers every night on the streets--probably on 'their turf'. I never forget that in the bible it says how Jesus sat and ate with the whores, talking freely with them and was very kind. It was the bankers he didn't truck with, after all:  'beware the money changers'--if I recall correctly, it is written is in the 'good book'. Talk about 'news we can use' here and now!

 
Now hey--I'm not putting myself on any pedestal--I've committed more than most people's share of sins, including newer ones not even in the bible. Maybe they need a 'Newer Testament" an updated version just for me. My priest and I can't set up a confession appointment, because he doesn't have a two week slot open!
 
But I'd be coming back from the store with candy bars, chips, drinks and stuff and those girls--'prostitutes' would most definitely hit on me. And I loved the attention. I'd stop, maybe sit on the curb, share some junk food and we'd talk about 'stuff'. A number of them wanted info about life in the USA and to know if I knew their cousin in say, Los Angeles, or New Jersey, if Johnny Depp is a buddy of mine--very sweet, but naive. Not to make a long story short here (have I ever? ), but at first, these girls and their 'Mama Sita' running the show, wanted to discuss business. And I didn't bite. Not that I wasn't tempted--she had some fresh young faces , so sweet, cute and innocent that with a dab of make up, they'd have fit on magazine covers (or center folds) I and in my wicked little mind, I was saying 'down boy, down boy!'. But after a week or so of us 'breaking the ice', sharing junk food and stories, they kept lowering the price, until the chubbu 'boss lady' said --why don't a couple of you  (the ones I could hardly keep my eyes off of ) just go back to the hotel with Robert, take good care of him, maybe watch some TV (yea--right!) and maybe he'll call room service and you can all eat and, and, and....So it could've become 'nubiles for free night'!

 
To this day, I sometimes wonder how I had the strength to turn them down, because to this day, I can still remember their lovely, smiling faces. I'm not germophobic, but that's probably one reason--I didn't want to 'catch' anything, although they looked squeaky clean. I had uber hot babes  'business minded' babes, approach me in Cebu and Manila, that were SO hot they made me break out in a sweat, so nervous, I thought maybe they could hear my knees a knockin-maybe if I 'bit' on their 'hooks' and took them up, my body would've frozen up, I dunno. And they knew JUST the effect they were putting on me too--reading me like a book, 'sizing me up'.
 
 
Manila and Cebu's a different game--bigger and faster and I find I prefer Davao City--the ladies are just a bit gentler, I think--it's still the 3rd largest city in the PI--but more my style. In Davao, sure they were prostitutes, but they had little if any, other opportunities, things maybe more available in Manila or Cebu City. I'd like to think that they just wanted enough money to eat, probably bring some food home and probably some little 'luxuries' --really things that you and I probably just take for granted. There are no free soup kitchens, no 'welfare' there--it was 'survival'. And after a few days, I came to feel--once we let our guards down a bit, that they were as nice and sincere as the ladies working the hotel desks. Just different sorts of jobs.

[benjio]

Robert I swear I could cut and paste three of the average posts you write on this board to a word document, and I'd run through an entire ream of paper printing them out. I have to admit however, that each time I take a few minutes out of my day to read about one of your experiences it is time well spent.
 
I have a few similar experiences with prepagos in Latin America, but far be it from me to reiterate the point you've so eloquently made by telling this story with one of my useless rants. Bravo.