Who Calls The Shots in Your Relationship? What Would You Do With This Situation?

[Researcher]

It is a little late now, but I’d consider beginning to withdraw money from the relationship.  I get the feeling that money is going to be a major concern either directly or indirectly for quite a while.   In this case, you are actually relieving the family of a financial burden, I don’t see how that obligates you to contribute as much as you have been.   They will find a way to live the way they always have without attending all these birthday parties on your nickel. 
I think it would be much better for you and your wife to separate yourselves from the day to day decisions of the rest of her family.  Doing this will be much easier to do when she is living here.  I don’t ever see this group conforming to another person’s remote commands from afar.  Ultimately you will be resented, because as they say, ‘no good deed goes unpunished’ 


Fathertime!

       Good advice FT.While they may respond to someone that is on their front door step odds are they will thumb their noses at anyone trying to run things from afar.Dealing with Colombians while there is one thing trying to do it from a distance is another.

     Researcher

[benjio]

Bama,
 
Not to be pessimistic in any way, but I'm beginning to sense a problem with your relationship that will not resolve itself easily. Everyone here has made excellent points and suggestions. The problem is they're all logical and we're dealing with a completely illogical culture. I personally have no suggestions except for making it clear to your wife that you're not budging on the financial issue, nor are you willing to change your initial expectations of her not working once she gets here.
 
There is no statistical data gathered and computated solely for the purpose of determining why and how many foreign marriages end in divorce. But in my experience, I've seen unrealistic expectations as the cause most of the time. A very common unrealistic expectation is a gringo financially supporting the family his wife is leaving...especially in Colombia. Regardless of what you say now, my prediction is she'll be hearing about disaster after disaster as soon as she steps foot in the U.S. and a mystical, magical trip to Western Union will be the solution for them all.
 
Your experience with Costenos is equal to if not greater than my own, so I don't have to tell you that nothing you can do will break her dedication to her family. The combination of enough of those guilt trips from back home, your unwillingness to help financially, and her not being able to work can result in a disastrous outcome. I've seen this happen before.

[Alabamaboy!]

Well Benjio, we will see what happens. Because I know my role very well in this world and it is primarily to make the best decisions for my family that sleeps under my roof. And everyone else comes after that. So if she shows she is not on the same page with me on that one, then you are right, the relationship will probably fail. It is up to her how this all turns out, because I am the most cabron of the cabrones. But a very generous and fair cabron. And I am not going to be a second tier member of my own family.

Like with my ex wife, when things were going well and we were on the same page, then all is good and we had a great life. But when she is doing her own thing, not doing her part with the family, but still living a lifestyle way better than she could ever get on her own, that is when we needed to have a discussion, and after many discussions like that, and no change....that is when I needed to pull the plug on the relationship. And I did just that thing.

I will do it again if I need to. I am not so desperate that I need to bow down to her or her family. Or make payments like I am buying a car or something. I am not such a needy person like that.

I think a relationship is only good for as long as it is good. If one party or the other is not happy or is suffering or getting taken advantage at some time, then it becomes a very sick, dysfunctional thing. And not a true, loving relationship anymore. And it is time to split. I don't want to live like many people do with a lifetime of misery because they feel that they cannot stand on their own two feet and move on with their life when things get bad.

[Gato4Astrid]

The situation of her father isn't your problem.   


Your wife should be very grateful that you give her better standard of living than where she was before, but "greed" from members of her family isn't the answer.   They just take advantage of you because you have the money and you are a gringo!   


Being a gringo isn't the same as being a ATM machine or a bank !!!


Golden rules of being in the business - always have a business plan.  There's old story that "You fail to plan, you plan to fail"   You tried to help them with business, but they did not do their job properly, and therefore it isn't your fault.

[maritime04]

AB
 
I do not know the details of your family, or your spouses family.  I was not trying to give you [snip], just expressing my opinion. I understand where you are coming from, not wanting to be an ATM. nobody wants to be used.
 
You said before that you provide some cash to YOUR mother, i do as well to mine, my mom still works at 57, where my gals mom lives off her children at 53, my mom wakes up at 4am to go to work, when she is short or needs something i help her out, i am lucky enough to make a good living. i feel the same way you do when a person expects to be given a free ride in the life, and sits on ther fat asses. but i love my gal, and i understand why/how she feels they way she does for her mother, i would not want to change it or her. so we will work around it.
 
We share personal stuff about our lives so we can VENT, get a diffrence of opinion and feel better I DO ATLEAST.
 
The strong/rich, abuse and take advantage of the poor THEY created the barrios and the barrio way of life, and then thumb their noses down at them................The average RICH colombian male, has 3-4 mosas, and acts like a DUSH BAG. sorry i do not emulate them or want to be them despite how many  pretty fake intresadas they have.

[utopiacowboy]

    I agree with AB on #1.Those "upper class" broads are no different.

   



    Researcher

No? My wife and her situation is as different as what AB describes as night and day. Hell, THEY paid for her ticket to go to Colombia just this month!

[Alabamaboy!]

No? My wife and her situation is as different as what AB describes as night and day. Hell, THEY paid for her ticket to go to Colombia just this month!

Anything I am talking about refers only to the Coast and maybe Cali. I have only been to Medellin once, Bucaramanga once, and Bogota for a few days. But I have been to the Coast a ton of times and have met many, many people there.

My impression of Medellin was that the women there were more "go getters" than most gringas. Definitely 180 degrees from Costenas.

[maritime04]

Women from Medellin tend to be more serious, often I have heard Colombians say that you go to Cali for a girlfriend and Medellin for a wife............................
 
I’ll explain why I choose to stay away from higher end estrata girls. I find that because they have little bit of money, that often greed kicks in, and they want more. Jealousy takes a role because often they see family and friends with the STUFF they want. Many have family that live in the US and are often in the process of applying for visas because they KNOW how good life (wages) can be from their family that lives in the US.
 
The girls that I dated in the higher strata always seemed to be sizing my financial status, with personal questions and comments. It always gave me a creepy feeling. I was once driven to a car dealership by my date, I think she wanted to see if I was going to purchase a car and what type of car I would purchase before she got involved with me…………
 
You can’t blame a girl from a 3-4 estrata wanting to live like a 5-6 poblado brat with all the trimmings, because it’s what they see 24-7, and what they here from family and friends. They can be complicated and sneaky in their relationships and even friendships.
 
With that said I find I like the lower estrata girls because they tend to live life with emotion, they have good friendships because they actually enjoy the company of others, poor girls tend to laugh more and often have fun with what they have. They seem more sincere, unless they are obviously using you, which you can easily tell if they are. There are problems and a down side, but weather its costena or piasia I think the more wealthy Colombianos seem stuck up or snooty to me. 
 

[Researcher]

   I've been all over Colombia and still say those "upper class" broads are no different.Other than the fact they will expect to have servants here in the US like they did in Colombia.

     Researcher

[Alabamaboy!]

Women from Medellin tend to be more serious, often I have heard Colombians say that you go to Cali for a girlfriend and Medellin for a wife............................
 
I’ll explain why I choose to stay away from higher end estrata girls. I find that because they have little bit of money, that often greed kicks in, and they want more. Jealousy takes a role because often they see family and friends with the STUFF they want. Many have family that live in the US and are often in the process of applying for visas because they KNOW how good life (wages) can be from their family that lives in the US.
 
The girls that I dated in the higher strata always seemed to be sizing my financial status, with personal questions and comments. It always gave me a creepy feeling. I was once driven to a car dealership by my date, I think she wanted to see if I was going to purchase a car and what type of car I would purchase before she got involved with me…………
 
You can’t blame a girl from a 3-4 estrata wanting to live like a 5-6 poblado brat with all the trimmings, because it’s what they see 24-7, and what they here from family and friends. They can be complicated and sneaky in their relationships and even friendships.
 
With that said I find I like the lower estrata girls because they tend to live life with emotion, they have good friendships because they actually enjoy the company of others, poor girls tend to laugh more and often have fun with what they have. They seem more sincere, unless they are obviously using you, which you can easily tell if they are. There are problems and a down side, but weather its costena or piasia I think the more wealthy Colombianos seem stuck up or snooty to me.

This is pretty much what I have experienced also.

[Researcher]

Women from Medellin tend to be more serious, often I have heard Colombians say that you go to Cali for a girlfriend and Medellin for a wife............................
 
I’ll explain why I choose to stay away from higher end estrata girls. I find that because they have little bit of money, that often greed kicks in, and they want more. Jealousy takes a role because often they see family and friends with the STUFF they want. Many have family that live in the US and are often in the process of applying for visas because they KNOW how good life (wages) can be from their family that lives in the US.
 
The girls that I dated in the higher strata always seemed to be sizing my financial status, with personal questions and comments. It always gave me a creepy feeling. I was once driven to a car dealership by my date, I think she wanted to see if I was going to purchase a car and what type of car I would purchase before she got involved with me…………
 
You can’t blame a girl from a 3-4 estrata wanting to live like a 5-6 poblado brat with all the trimmings, because it’s what they see 24-7, and what they here from family and friends. They can be complicated and sneaky in their relationships and even friendships.
 
With that said I find I like the lower estrata girls because they tend to live life with emotion, they have good friendships because they actually enjoy the company of others, poor girls tend to laugh more and often have fun with what they have. They seem more sincere, unless they are obviously using you, which you can easily tell if they are. There are problems and a down side, but weather its costena or piasia I think the more wealthy Colombianos seem stuck up or snooty to me.

    I would say that is a good description.My wife and I have a Colombian couple as friends.They lived here for about a year and then moved to Australia recently.The husband is from Cali and the wife is from Medellin.After my wife became friends with the woman she visited our house quite often.It wasn't long before the woman started badgering her husband about buying a house.They did and then he got a job offer in Australia and they moved but they are stuck with the house here.She is an educated  woman from Medellin and if she is typical I'd stay away from there.

     Researcher

[Gato4Astrid]

 
The girls that I dated in the higher strata always seemed to be sizing my financial status, with personal questions and comments. It always gave me a creepy feeling. I was once driven to a car dealership by my date, I think she wanted to see if I was going to purchase a car and what type of car I would purchase before she got involved with me…………
 

When I was looking for a "Russian" wife, many years ago, I always avoid these women who live in "Western" style home.  I always prefer to see "real" photos of them, not the professional studio photos.   Professional studio photos are nice way to impress themselves to you, but when you want to know more about them, it is recommended to ask for more photos.   When you see them, living beautiful interior design house, you will be wondering if she is a gold digger or not. 

[chameleon]

How do you know which estrada a girl is from? What's the difference between 5 and 6, or 3 and 4? Are neighborhoods/class that clearly defined?

[benjio]

How do you know which estrada a girl is from? What's the difference between 5 and 6, or 3 and 4? Are neighborhoods/class that clearly defined?

Best way...ask her. It's not something you can determine an exact figure on by looking at the barrio. Although in my opinion that's a little insulting. I'd equate it to walking up to someone here in the states and literally asking the question, "How poor are you?"
 
In Colombia "Nivel de Estrada" is primarily a class system associated with a person's residence. In general, it determines how much of a percentage a resident pays for the entire city's utility costs. It's not that someone in an Estrada 1 or 2 barrio uses less electricity or water than someone that's richer. The percentage they pay for the total cost of electricity plus a predetermined revenue figure is less than those living in a Estrada 5 or 6 barrio. It's sort of a socialist method of helping poorer families keep their lights, gas and water on. From what I've heard it also applies to cable television but I have yet to confirm this. However, it may or may not have anything to do with how much money a Colombian earns. Where someone in an Estrada 4 or higher barrio will usually have to show proof of sufficient income to live in that area, this is generally not the case in lower income barrios. The fact that you're living there is taken for granted as proof you can't afford to live anywhere else. But I personally know of Colombians that earn more than enough to live in higher Estradas, and choose to live in lower income housing so they don't have to pay as much for utilities.
 
Furthermore, no one in Colombia just flat out says this, but Estrada can also be associated with service recovery times after any type of disruption. After a rain storm in Barranquilla, it may be days before the lights come back on in a Estrada 1 or 2 barrio. In a Estrada 5 or 6, 3 hours tops! During one of my trips in 2009 after a very bad rain storm the lights went off at Jamie's house in Salgar. I didn't mind because I was on my out anyway. I went to Buena Vista Mall, had lunch and did some shopping. When I returned two hours later there was already a crew working on the lines down the street from the house. Keep in mind that Salgar is technically not even inside Barranquilla city limits, but I can assure you nothing but rich Colombians live in that area.
 
Unfortunately this is one of the very few breaks that poorer Colombians get. From what I've seen (and I may be wrong), Estrada does not apply in any way to life's other necessities. I was surprised to find that the Olympica Grocery Stores in the lower estrada neighborhoods of Colombia generally have the same prices as those in the more affluent areas. Affordable, but still entirely too much. This is why you'll hardly ever, if at all, see Carefour (a French Company by the way) near a poor Colombian Barrio. No one would even bother shopping there...it's too expensive. I was very surprised to see they had built an Exito near Soledad a couple of years ago. Soledad is slowly becoming more valuable real estate because of it's proximity to the airport, but I would have never thought the people that live in Soledad could afford to shop there. A few years ago Walmart attempted to buy Olympica from it's founder and move into Colombia. After some hard nosed negotiation, he refused. Few people know this, but Walmart is still coming. The company I worked for on contract last year were a logistics consulting firm that was helping them move in. Olympica should have sold, because now they are getting put out of business. No company in Colombia can compete with Walmart's buying or logistical power.
 
It's funny (but really not)...A popular sarcastic comment in Bogota when you're talking about how rich someone is, is to say, "Yeah, that guy's loaded. I think he's like Estrada 20!!!!"

[InnocentVixen]

When I was looking for a "Russian" wife, many years ago, I always avoid these women who live in "Western" style home.... When you see them, living beautiful interior design house, you will be wondering if she is a gold digger or not.

Yes gato, because everyone that doesn't live in an english speaking country should live in a house made of cardboard and not care about their home, she should get bonus points if she has never worn shoes!!! 


I know a lot of men around here don't really mind about how much money a girl has and they have my respect, but judging someone because they have a decent home and their parents work hard to provide a decent life for their children does not make the woman automatically guilty (or innocent for that matter) of being a gold digger, the best way to know if she is one is when she actually asks you for money in my opinion.

[utopiacowboy]

Yes gato, because everyone that doesn't live in an english speaking country should live in a house made of cardboard and not care about their home, she should get bonus points if she has never worn shoes!!! 


I know a lot of men around here don't really mind about how much money a girl has and they have my respect, but judging someone because they have a decent home and their parents work hard to provide a decent life for their children does not make the woman automatically guilty (or innocent for that matter) of being a gold digger, the best way to know if she is one is when she actually asks you for money in my opinion.

Good post as usual, IV.

[robert angel]

I.V.
 
Regarding your statement:
 
>>I know a lot of men around here don't really mind about how much money a girl has and they have my respect<<.
 
I guess you'll hate me and have no respect for me anymore. But when I go out with my 'babeomonitor' along with my notebook in hand and start go a hunting for some 'prime' women folk, I ALWAYS have this song in heavy rotation on my Ipod, so that I KNOW I have MY priorities right!!!
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dm8gE8YoG6A      hahaha

[maritime04]

Ben
 
Some up the estrata category pretty good, difference between a 1-2 is what you have inside your home, like TV sets, washer, oven, ect....I do not know how often they do this but some ones does come around to your home and asks you questions to determine your estrato.
 
I have often seen lovely estrato 4-5 homes in poor barrios, often narcos and family of narcos stay in lower end barrios; they often kill pigs and throw free parties for the barrio. Till they are shot.
 
Yeah it would be very rude to ask a girl what estrato you are. I made some general comments and there are always expectations, for instance I had a lovely date with a girl from Belen 3-4 estrato area, she was very classy, nothing came from the date, but I do recall commenting on the how polite, courteous and respectful she was, we did not connect, but I regret not trying to sleep with her now that I think about it.....................................
 

[Alabamaboy!]

Update on the situation with my wife: I decided to just be honest with her and tell her that I don't want to be sending any cash into that household unless we are all working together for whatever thing as one family. And that includes the sister letting my wife use the computer when we need it. Who knows if the father ever read the letter I sent him on facebook. But she had the computer when she was supposed to, chatted the whole night in English, no BS, nothing but nice things. Like I told her, it is not a threat or anything, but if we had to rely on my mom for something and she was being a selfish brat like my wife's sister was, then my wife would have all the rights to say that we should not send my mom the money we do to support her either. It is fair. No problem.

We also reviewed the $250/mth limit for as long as we can afford it. And no argument there either.

We also talked about the fact that her "career" would be taking care of the family and home. Unless she had a way to earn $100,000 a year salary and then I would take care of the house and kids. No problem. So we agreed on that also.

The sick skinny guy has supposedly been to the clinic and had a bunch of tests done and they are awaiting the results.

The father understands that there will be no talking about "business plans" until she has been over here doing her part for a little while.

I told her to tell her family to try to concentrate on coming together and helping her get over here without problems so maybe it will open other opportunities down the road.

[michaelb]

Robert, this isn't a circus and we don't need a clown............

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBVGoWxqecI

[maritime04]

AB
 
That sounds good, i have to agree with you, if they can not work togeather as a family, whats the point. Hopefully they understand and will change some habits atleast not interfere with your gals computer time. Hope it works out

[Researcher]

Yes gato, because everyone that doesn't live in an english speaking country should live in a house made of cardboard and not care about their home, she should get bonus points if she has never worn shoes!!! 


I know a lot of men around here don't really mind about how much money a girl has and they have my respect, but judging someone because they have a decent home and their parents work hard to provide a decent life for their children does not make the woman automatically guilty (or innocent for that matter) of being a gold digger, the best way to know if she is one is when she actually asks you for money in my opinion.

     Good post IV.Because those things don't determine much about a person.Some would like to believe that just because someone has an education they are somehow morally superior but that just isn't the case.Some would also say that just because someone is poor they are desperate..that isn't always the case either.I'd say that you truly can't judge anything like that until you have actually spent time with someone.

      Researcher

[robert angel]

 

Best way...ask her. It's not something you can determine an exact figure on by looking at the barrio. Although in my opinion that's a little insulting. I'd equate it to walking up to someone here in the states and literally asking the question, "How poor are you?"

In Colombia "Nivel de Estrada" is primarily a class system associated with a person's residence. In general, it determines how much of a percentage a resident pays for the entire city's utility costs. It's not that someone in an Estrada 1 or 2 barrio uses less electricity or water than someone that's richer. The percentage they pay for the total cost of electricity plus a predetermined revenue figure is less than those living in a Estrada 5 or 6 barrio. It's sort of a socialist method of helping poorer families keep their lights, gas and water on. From what I've heard it also applies to cable television but I have yet to confirm this. However, it may or may not have anything to do with how much money a Colombian earns. Where someone in an Estrada 4 or higher barrio will usually have to show proof of sufficient income to live in that area, this is generally not the case in lower income barrios. The fact that you're living there is taken for granted as proof you can't afford to live anywhere else. But I personally know of Colombians that earn more than enough to live in higher Estradas, and choose to live in lower income housing so they don't have to pay as much for utilities.

Furthermore, no one in Colombia just flat out says this, but Estrada can also be associated with service recovery times after any type of disruption. After a rain storm in Barranquilla, it may be days before the lights come back on in a Estrada 1 or 2 barrio. In a Estrada 5 or 6, 3 hours tops! During one of my trips in 2009 after a very bad rain storm the lights went off at Jamie's house in Salgar. I didn't mind because I was on my out anyway. I went to Buena Vista Mall, had lunch and did some shopping. When I returned two hours later there was already a crew working on the lines down the street from the house. Keep in mind that Salgar is technically not even inside Barranquilla city limits, but I can assure you nothing but rich Colombians live in that area.

Unfortunately this is one of the very few breaks that poorer Colombians get. From what I've seen (and I may be wrong), Estrada does not apply in any way to life's other necessities. I was surprised to find that the Olympica Grocery Stores in the lower estrada neighborhoods of Colombia generally have the same prices as those in the more affluent areas. Affordable, but still entirely too much. This is why you'll hardly ever, if at all, see Carefour (a French Company by the way) near a poor Colombian Barrio. No one would even bother shopping there...it's too expensive. I was very surprised to see they had built an Exito near Soledad a couple of years ago. Soledad is slowly becoming more valuable real estate because of it's proximity to the airport, but I would have never thought the people that live in Soledad could afford to shop there. A few years ago Walmart attempted to buy Olympica from it's founder and move into Colombia. After some hard nosed negotiation, he refused. Few people know this, but Walmart is still coming. The company I worked for on contract last year were a logistics consulting firm that was helping them move in. Olympica should have sold, because now they are getting put out of business. No company in Colombia can compete with Walmart's buying or logistical power.

It's funny (but really not)...A popular sarcastic comment in Bogota when you're talking about how rich someone is, is to say, "Yeah, that guy's loaded. I think he's like Estrada 20!!!!"

THAT was a great post. It filled in some 'blanks' on things I knew a little bit about and helped fill them in a good bit more--thanks, Benjio.And I.V., you as well as others who I can't all mention now, have had some 'timeless gems you've written here as well, thank you all.


I enjoy reading both the Asian (which had been running pretty dry up until recently) and L.A. side here. maybe I shouldn't be posting, adding my 'two bits' here, which I typically run up to more like two dollars, but although maybe it comes off as selfish (I hope not) I enjoy it.

To be honest though, between my not knowing much Spanish and the way so many things in L.A. aren't in 'black and white'--'yes or no' answerable fashion to me--and how we sometimes write using innuendos, Benjio's post really enlightened me. Between the 'black and white' there's a lot of 'gray space' that is hard to convey to people like me--to 'newbies' and when something like that is posted--it's gold, in my opinion.

I think P-L should have a separate, specially dedicated SECTION to posts like that--ones that are pretty much 'timeless' in how they can inform people who want to, or should want to know. Not too sure about putting something like that in the archives--that's a great place, but I sometimes find looking for stuff there to feel like swimming in jello. Perhaps it's own 'section'? can your hear me, Mr. Dan? Call it "Essentials" maybe, or have "Best of's" for being informative, 'funny but true', for 'male vs female perspectives' etc.? --there's a lot, but not so much that it'd eat up tons of space here. I think it would be good for 'business',--bringing more members in, but more importantly, help people go to a succinct source and keep them coming back.

[JimD]

 
 It's sort of a socialist method of helping poorer families keep their lights, gas and water on. From what I've heard it also applies to cable television but I have yet to confirm this. However, it may or may not have anything to do with how much money a Colombian earns. Where someone in an Estrada 4 or higher barrio will usually have to show proof of sufficient income to live in that area, this is generally not the case in lower income barrios. The fact that you're living there is taken for granted as proof you can't afford to live anywhere else.
 

Yes the estrata system includes cable tv and yes it is a Socialist system. Estrata levels are assigned to barrios. Generally Colombians live in the best barrio they can afford. There are benifits to living in better barrios such as less crime and less noise. There is no requirement whatsover to "show proof" of income to live in whatever barrio however. You only have to show proof of income (in the form of a "carta laboral") if you want to rent and that holds true for all barrios from 1-6. It is simply for the benifit of the landlord or inmobilaria and can always be waived at their discretion for example like when someone comes along and offers six months rent up front (the stratagy most gringos have to use).
 

[utopiacowboy]

Yes the estrata system includes cable tv and yes it is a Socialist system. Estrata levels are assigned to barrios. Generally Colombians live in the best barrio they can afford. There are benifits to living in better barrios such as less crime and less noise. There is no requirement whatsover to "show proof" of income to live in whatever barrio however. You only have to show proof of income (in the form of a "carta laboral") if you want to rent and that holds true for all barrios from 1-6. It is simply for the benifit of the landlord or inmobilaria and can always be waived at their discretion for example like when someone comes along and offers six months rent up front (the stratagy most gringos have to use).

Generally speaking that's true but not always. In my wife's Belen barrio bordering on Laureles the city wanted to change the classification from 4 to 5. The neighbors got together and fought the reclassification arguing that they were going to get nothing from it except increased taxes and utility bills. They won and the reclassification was stopped. In Medellin apparently you can fight City Hall and win.