Who Calls The Shots in Your Relationship? What Would You Do With This Situation?

[Researcher]

     Hey AB, with the exception of my wife's family most of women's families I was with before always asked for the same amount: All that I would send.I learned quick that I had to set the amount and not budge, if I sent anything.Some asked way too soon and I made the decision not to send any money unless I was married already and then I decided how much.Decide what you want to do and stick by it.

    Researcher

[Alabamaboy!]

     Hey AB, with the exception of my wife's family most of women's families I was with before always asked for the same amount: All that I would send.I learned quick that I had to set the amount and not budge, if I sent anything.Some asked way too soon and I made the decision not to send any money unless I was married already and then I decided how much.Decide what you want to do and stick by it.

    Researcher

Oh, you got that right. This is not a negotiation or anything about what I will be sending. If they don't like it, they can lump it. Before me they had nobody helping.

The more important issue to me is when my wife starts popping off now about how she will just work when she is here and send the money home to the family. That has already been discussed and that is not going to be happening. I told her if that is what she thinks she is going to do, she better not even plan to come here. I did not marry her so she can have the opportunity to come here and work in the States to help her family. This was discussed a million times before we even got engaged, and she was in agreement with the way I felt about the issue. That we would be doing what we needed to do for our own family here under this roof first, then if there was any extra time, energy, or whatever left, then she could start to think about working outside the house to give money away to her folks. But I think she needs to get here first and start pulling a little weight before she starts making plans about all that. Especially when her English is not up to snuff to be working anywhere. She needs to take things step by step to open doors of opportunity. Get here, take care of the home situation, get her English better, then start thinking about all that other stuff.

I really think it may be her family putting all this baloney in her head, because I have not heard this kind of BS when she was here or hardly at all over the past 2 years.

[fathertime]

The more important issue to me is when my wife starts popping off now about how she will just work when she is here and send the money home to the family. That has already been discussed and that is not going to be happening. I told her if that is what she thinks she is going to do, she better not even plan to come here. 

 When dealing with a younger woman, one issue that can arise is the woman changing what she wants.


 In your case AB, if your woman NOW wants to work, that goes against what you guys agreed to.  You can react in many different ways, one POSSIBLE way might be to let her get the typical not so easy job that somebody without an education here in the states would get.   Now of course you would have to let her know that she has to pay some of the bills of the house if she is working, for example, her health insurance, electricity, transportation, and some of the food.  It is only fair.   If she still manages the get up an go aspect of getting a job, and given the work ethic displayed in her home,  after a couple days/weeks of hard labor, she might recognize how good she had it when she was ‘in charge of the house’ and she may well have another change of heart.  The upside to all of this is that she probably won’t be nagging you about work anymore!  Just throwing out ideas, I'd hate to see this marriage get busted up before it starts!


You are more patient then I would be with all these non-working adults in the house sucking up your cash.  Generally speaking, I help people that are doing something to help themselves.  It appears in this case, the family isn’t doing much to help themselves or you and your wife.


Fathertime!

[robert angel]

Hate to break it you guys (if you don't already know), but I think almost everytime, even with sincere, very intelligent women, ones you may have struck a 'deal' with--an 'agreement' that puts a cap or limit on how much money she can send home each month, that you'd best not count on it holding up exactly as agreed upon.
 
It will at times exceed that amount, maybe even often, and even if there's not an 'emergency' going on back home.
 
 
It's better to quietly accept this as long as it's not grossly out of control, while keeping an eye on things. She needs to know that if your house needs a new roof, that that has priority over their chicken coop needing new wire.
 
NO, I wouldn't suggest saying anything like: "Honey, I know you'll often be sending more than we discussed and agreed upon and I'm OK with that", as that's kind of like opening up the flood gates, wimping out and then there may be less and less financial discipline as time goes by, as you've given her a green light to go ahead.
 
That said--'quietly accept' is not a blanket statement. Keep an eye on things--it's for the good of everybody, I think--it's not being mean and selfish. It's your job as 'head of the house'--as a benevolent dictator, if you will, to make sure there's balance and that the home front is secure.
 
When I see that my wife has (and we have joint, as well as separate accounts--set amount accounts for things like internet purchases, emergency home or car repairs and a couple other types of accounts), has sent a lot more money home than usual, I don't get all loud and crazy. I wait for the right moment and in a low key way, ask her "Why did you need to send so much more than usual last month?"
 
I think that's quite appropriate and reasonable on my part, and after she's given me a plausible answer, I untie her from the chair, put the rubber hose away, turn off the single light bulb burning over her head, and we're all 'lovey dovey' again. (JOKE!) 
 
She has an account that's pretty much dedicated to things like helping pay her sibling's tuition, helping pay if something in the home that's vital needs repair or otherwise will get worse and cost even more and yes, even for a little bit of what some might think are think of unnecessary expenses --maybe some money if the crop on the farm's real bad, or for a birthday, a wedding anniversary gift, a college year book, etc--but more typically, a bit extra for things like a whole' already prepared (plucked) chicken for a special Sunday dinner, a kilo of fresh tuna, etc--stuff they rarely saw when she was growing up.
 
Not all people--inlaws and extended family are as 'practical' as mine--'your mileage may vary' and sometimes you have to get hard nosed with folks like that. But these are practical people I'm talking about here--maybe TOO practical--if I gave her $50 and told her-"Make sure your parents get this, take the bus to the city to see a real first run movie and buy T Bone steaks and eat at a restaurant that actually has napkins" (as if they could find such a place over there) but knowing her sweet, practical Mom, she would buy the same bootleg movie on DVD that's playing in the theater from a street vendor, for what wouldn't even cost a dollar here, take it home to watch with the whole family, then make soup out of the meat AND the bones  --it would turn one GREAT meal into something good they'd enjoy for days--served over rice, of course...And if I chanced to ask--"How did you guys like that new movie and the steaks?", she wouldn't lie to me. After all. Filipinas can be coy--she might say "thank you so much, we really liked the movie and the meat was really good'.
 
 
If you're a macho, hard nosed guy who makes his wife terrified that you'll hear she went over say, the "$200 a month limit" that you may have agreed upon before the honey moon came (and went), you're running a big risk that's she's going to use anyone of a number of ways--banks, wires services, give the money for a friend to send, etc., and go behind your back and do it anyway.
 
Once stuff like that happens, it becomes easier and easier for 'unspoken things'--for evasion of answering questions, for 'fibs' 'white lies' and such, to become more frequent, larger, deeper and darker and in in how they effect your relationship, and that they will. Sometimes, the worst lies are things they never told you, but should have.
 
One time, my wife bought a small window air conditioner for her parent' s bedroom. I know how hot and miserable it can get there, so I was fine with that. BUT I might have had an issue if she felt she also had to send $30 a month more, every month, for the extra cost of electricity, but that hasn't been an issue.
 
I think it's best--and it acts as a control in it's own right, if most of the money she sends home comes from money she's earning  from working here herself and at that, you should still expect her to use some of the money to help pay the bills at home here too. It just makes her realize, when she gets home tired, her feet hurting, you're both  hungry and dinner's not even cooked yet-how money in the USA, for most of us, isn't 'manna from heaven'. It really adds a 'reality perspective.'
 
Unless you've actually lived here and worked, it's VERY hard to most people (and MUCH more overseas in 3rd world countries) to have even a clue how what seems like 'big money' being earned, doesn't go nearly as far as they think here, compared to most nations.
 
Yes--some of you have visions of bringing your lovely bride over and keeping her as strictly a 'house wife'-some look at a woman's earning potential as much as her character and physical appeal and see things like bass boats, over and under shot guns and other 'necessities' as a major reason for bringing her here--almost like 'pimping her out' to make your own personal life more luxurious. Some --and this basically describes our situation--hope that the two of us have enough work to make OUR lives here better and still have some money left over to make the folks at home have things that least make their lives a 'little bit' better too.
 
Yes--the 'essential expenses' and the well being of you and your new wife over here come first and she needs to accept that, but if it means, that because she sent a few more bucks this month than last month so they could afford a sack of rice or a bag of corn and you're eating pork chops one Friday night instead of steak and lobster,you might just wanna keep your mouth shut and 'roll with it'.
 
If I haven't lost you, put you into a deep sleep by now or made you switch to a thread you can read in under five minutes, it's time for me--"Dr. Pill' to sign off on this post but finally to again suggest y'all  figure out and accept that regardless of the home situation you choose from in the paragraph just above this one--that you might as well get over it and accept now, that 'typically' there's gonna be times when she sends more money home than you expected and agreed upon, because if you're gonna be a hard azz about it, it's probably going to just create other problems.
 
 
 

[jb]

I've been thinking about this recently...


I think there is a legitimate point to be made that if they're living communally and all depend on each other to contribute to core expenses like rent, then when you remove her from the household after she gets approved to move here, and you take that extra income away, you're leaving them worse off.

That's rough. To me, it's incomprehensible that people wouldn't strive to make their own lives better. I'd have a problem coughing up cash to support everyone if nobody was working.

I agree with you Chameleon,
I'd have a hard time as well.  In fact if they had opportunities and didn't, I don't think i would.

for me your second quote qualifies the first.
i'll take it a step further for matter of discussion.  AB is not leaving them worse off.  Maybe "you" was meant as a general you.  Either way, if they are adults who can fend (or do better) for themselves but chose not to, that's how they choose to live.  When his wife leaves, she is choosing to do so as an adult.

She also has a choice when leaving the communal situation as well as the family living situation as to how she supports the family if at all.

I guess I'm seeing this on some different levels.
The personal vs cultural values of communal living vs family living vs being in a family vs individual living.  And how it all is in light of personal responsibility.

I say communal vs family vs individual because I see when AB's wife leaves she is leaving the communal situation as well as family living.  She is not however leaving the family.  She is always a daughter.

What are her responsibilities if any as a daughter once she is no longer in the family living situation?  Does it make a difference if she is married or not?

I guess each person within a family and each family may have a different idea what works for them and each society may have its norms when it comes to the above mentioned 'vs' scenarios.

Regardless of the different views,  it seems that AB looks out for his family and his wife's family.  He's has demonstrated by his actions to be a very responsible guy.  With his wife's family I hope they realize/truly understand what he has done for them and offered to them in his actions up to this point.  He could have just as easily kept his distance and just as easily say no to them now based on their responses to his actions. 

I just don't want to see AB's generosity taken advantage of.  It doesn't sound as if they get it right now.  That may just be how it is.   Not that that's wrong, they may just not see a bigger picture.   Or maybe they understand it perfectly well and that's not how they choose to approach life.



AB,  I'm sorry for your situation, yet I am thankful for this thread.  It has been very helpful to me to think through these issues.  Thank you for being so open.

[Alabamaboy!]

When dealing with a younger woman, one issue that can arise is the woman changing what she wants.


 In your case AB, if your woman NOW wants to work, that goes against what you guys agreed to.  You can react in many different ways, one POSSIBLE way might be to let her get the typical not so easy job that somebody without an education here in the states would get.   Now of course you would have to let her know that she has to pay some of the bills of the house if she is working, for example, her health insurance, electricity, transportation, and some of the food.  It is only fair.   If she still manages the get up an go aspect of getting a job, and given the work ethic displayed in her home,  after a couple days/weeks of hard labor, she might recognize how good she had it when she was ‘in charge of the house’ and she may well have another change of heart.  The upside to all of this is that she probably won’t be nagging you about work anymore!  Just throwing out ideas, I'd hate to see this marriage get busted up before it starts!


You are more patient then I would be with all these non-working adults in the house sucking up your cash.  Generally speaking, I help people that are doing something to help themselves.  It appears in this case, the family isn’t doing much to help themselves or you and your wife.


Fathertime!

No. I am not going to be playing games like that. Like I have said several times in the past the relationship is only good when both parties are on the same page. If not, then no need for anyone to suffer. Everyone can go their own way. I don't want to force anyone to do anything. And I am not going to be a sucker or a chump to give her the golden pass to come to the US to get a job to send money home to her folks. If she wants to do that, she can do it from there in Colombia. As a matter of fact, now with this nonsense, I am reconsidering having some kind of post nuptial agreement drawn up in case she flakes out and "changes her mind" regarding what she wants at a later date. And when she asks me why, I will give her the excuse that she is acting like a flake now and I need to protect myself and my family.

[Alabamaboy!]

Here is the latest on this drama. We chat every night at 8:00 for at least an hour and half for us to communicate in general, to plan for things like the upcoming Embassy interview, to solve problems, and for her to practice her English. So if you have been following the thread you know that one of her sisters, who sleeps in the same bed as her, has a laptop computer. She is currently out of work and spends all day just goofing off. I explained to my wife about how a family should work together for the good of the family. Like I am sending the money there to do my part, her sister should set aside an hour or so of computer time for my wife to us it with me. I don't think this is a huge sacrifice for her considering I am the guy paying for the internet service and I am the only bread winner in the family.

So tonight I get online and she is not there. At around 8:20 she texts me telling me she cannot get online because her sister will not let her use the computer.

At this point, I am ready to yank all financial support to them. Because I am simply being used as an ATM. I am not part of the family or else they would do their part as I am. My wife already has enough English at this time. So I am not even going to send any more money for the school or transportation. The visa interview will be in about 2 months.

I am not going to give money to people who don't deserve it just for the hell of it. The things I expect of them as a part of the family are very, very small and simple. If they cannot do it, I am not going to be the chump to just play along.

I am willing to do a lot. But there must be respect there. If not, I am not going to do anything.

[Alabamaboy!]

Robert, everyone's situation is different. If I did not have young kids, or if I had some kind of pension I was receiving and could bank on, I would not sweat it as much. But I am an independent businessman getting hammered by this economy and my business is heading down the tubes pretty fast. In fact, I was just looking over the contract to sell my shares of my business to my partner. I have no pension. My business was my "pension". So my $20K that I have in an old IRA and the couple hundred thousand from my business sale are not so great for 25 years of work.

But with things going the way they are, with health insurance rates skyrocketing, a long way to go with child support, spousal support, etc, I am in no position to be playing around like this with cash. I have not been laying around in hammocks for the last 25 years. I have been working and hustling. So anyway, I am not going to budge much more on this issue. Hell she is not even here yet!!! And what is going to happen when there is a real emergency there?

When I was selling my blood to pay for my University, working my ass off, taking out the maximum amount of loans and then paid them off...early.... I did not even dream about asking for a dollar from anyone. I don't see much effort from them to help themselves out. And I am not trying to be their savior.

[InSanDiego]

AB, from what you've said, it sounds like she's a nice enough young woman who unfortunately is part of a wacky family, and she simply does not have the leverage,  maturity, or wherewithal to set limits with them. At the least, her family are not valuing you. Even if she values you, her family clearly does not, from what you've described....

[Alabamaboy!]

If you were in my shoes what would be your next step? Keep sending the money as before? Send more money to fix the computer even though she will be here in the States in 2 months? Cut the cash because they don't deserve it? Ignore everything?

[robert angel]

A.B.,
 
It's a complicated situation and as much as I'd like to help, between not really knowing Colombia or all the variables, options, etc--I'd probably be doing more harm than good in trying to help you. As it turned out, my take on new wives working and sending money home, really wasn't even very applicable to your situation, I don't think.
 
All I can say is I hope that she can get here ASAP, seeing how that still seems to be what you want, that she adapts well and that things work out better for you and yours, both personally and businesswise.
 
I'd like to think that statistically speaking, you're more than over due for some good luck and I'm pulling for you.
 
Good luck!
 
Rob

[maritime04]

robert angel i agree with alot of what you say, i mean lets put some of this stuff in perspective, and see whats really important in life. I look at my girls mother and sister as not just in-laws but family as well. so i always take a deep breath and think about stuff. i think i am lucky with them but many of the problems and issues you guys have are COMMON.
 
AB; that is how familys in Colombia work, especially barrio familes, i had the same issue with my girl when i am at work over the phone the internet, and a laptop computer they ACT LIKE CHILDREN, and sharing is often an issue even though they are 20-30 and sometimes 40s, its soo very sureal how a family that lives seems so tight and close have huge arguments and flights over nothing, these arguments end after a day or two and then ALL is forgiven.
 
Your girl is not to blame for the issue, my girl friends sister is also a greedy selfish brat when it comes to sharing. i can understand your issue, YOUR paying the bills, YOUR helping, YOUR working, why can they not respect YOUR time to use the internet or computer to talk with your girl.
 
Best option is explain this to them, i told my girl tell your family this is the only time we have to talk becuase i am working, dont get hostile it will not get you anywhere. explain it to them like you would a child, it sounds silly but it will work!

[InSanDiego]

AB, since you're asking for input, here goes: If you're going to send money, only send it for things like fixing the computer or things that facilitate your communication with her and/or help her get here ASAP and see how she and they react.....As long as they can milk you for other things, they can keep her over there. She's the leverage they have over you. Once she's here, it's a different dynamic...

[maritime04]

If the family is dependent on assistance cutting them off is not going to help the situation any. Your dealing with a diffrent culture you have to accept this, if you want to have sucessful marriage.
 
How can anyone expect your wife to simply move to the United States, forget her mother, father and family even exist and continue with her new life back in the states worry free? DEAD WRONG......Colombians value family, Colombians that live in poor barrios rely on family to SURVIVE!!! thats how they make it day to day.
 
Despite how rude, or mean my girlfriends family treats her, she still deeply cares for them and wants them to live better not just by me giving them money but by them having more common sense with the money that they have. It shows she has a heart and cares for some one other then herself. Which is something i value in her.
 
Our "American culture" is very diffrent, we have a better economy and more choices, if your going to get invloved with a barrio girl, then you have to deal with the family, simply saying that you have no responsiblity to your family becuase you no longer live there is FANTASY, i would not want to be invloved with a women whom thinks like that any way..........Yeah a girl like that is only going to spend your money and leave you the minute things get tough or she see's a better "catch".
 
Good luck to you AB, sounds like you have allot of talking to do with your girl.

[Researcher]

     That's a good post Maritime and only shows why knowing the culture can help.It may even be the only way to resolve such issues in a way that works.Sure family is important and helping each other is a way of life there, much more than in the US, but you don't want to be seen as a chump also.Claiming you are sending as much as you can is one way to handle it.I know those Colombianos will plead poverty in a second when really they have some money.

        Researcher

[Zon]

It's a blessing and a curse.

I differ from others here, I do not think being a female, becoming married, or having the woman pump out babies is necessariily the end goal.  I also think there is something to high self esteem, intelligence, loyalty, and so on. 

Part of what you are dealing with is because the woman comes from a lower class.  In the USA, we do not see this as a great limitation, or blemish.  In Colombia, it is different.

#1 - are you absolutely sure you want the baggage associated with girls from a lower class (these type of problems will not go away). 

# 2 - if you go through with this ... forget talking and negotiating with the family.  If you are going to spend the the money, you just bought a seat at the head of the table.  You are the new boss.  ACT LIKE IT.  Call the shots, and do not ask anybody for their opinion.

Best of luck

[Alabamaboy!]

Thanks Maritime for the input. But I am not asking my wife to forget her family at all. I am asking  for something very simple, that everyone do their part. So if their part is to let my wife use the computer for one hour a day for the next two months, then then need to do it. Especially when that sister is unemployed and is just jacking off on facebook all day and night. She is like 27 years old.

I am not getting hostile with anyone. I am just making the simple statement that they should not expect me to help them with anything if they are unwilling, unable, or whatever to help us with something so small. It just does not work that way. What I am asking of them is something that costs no money, and there is no excuse for not doing it.

And it has nothing to do with them being Colombian. If it was my own mother I would not help her out anymore if when the one and only time I needed her to do something for me that she would just thumb her nose at me.

Anyone who would just shut their mouth and shell out money every month under these circumstances is basically buying the gal like an inanimate object. And she is like a prepago or something....or at least an interesada if she is expecting money transaction without any consideration in return.

[Alabamaboy!]

And Maritime, they have never depended on my wife to help them survive. She does not work. They have been depending on ME to survive obviously. She is a negative there. Another mouth to feed. Another person to squeeze into a bed. It is not like anyone is adding anything to the situation. Everyone is just hanging out on hammocks listening to music and gossiping to neighbors all day.

[Alabamaboy!]

It's a blessing and a curse.

I differ from others here, I do not think being a female, becoming married, or having the woman pump out babies is necessariily the end goal.  I also think there is something to high self esteem, intelligence, loyalty, and so on. 

Part of what you are dealing with is because the woman comes from a lower class.  In the USA, we do not see this as a great limitation, or blemish.  In Colombia, it is different.

#1 - are you absolutely sure you want the baggage associated with girls from a lower class (these type of problems will not go away). 

# 2 - if you go through with this ... forget talking and negotiating with the family.  If you are going to spend the the money, you just bought a seat at the head of the table.  You are the new boss.  ACT LIKE IT.  Call the shots, and do not ask anybody for their opinion.

Best of luck

Zon: #1, I don't agree with you on this one. The "upper class" Colombianas I have met were much more money hungry and with more "baggage" than the "lower class" girls. That is exactly why I am with her in the first place. Most of the upper class girls I met were even worse than gringas!

#2. I think I agree with this one. She herself tells me that her dad is not the head of the household. That the mother is. So that just goes to tell me that it is like a rudderless ship at sea. Nobody is handling the situation, and for that reason they are in the [snip] all the time. Maybe if the dad would take control of the situation and lay down the law then the place would not be such a disorganized mess. So if I am carrying more of the load than anyone else there, they had better start cooperating a bit more. Because I surely am not going to be taking orders from them. That is for sure.

[Zon]

Quote:  "I am ASKING for something very simple"  TELL / COMMAND do not ask.

[Researcher]

    I agree with AB on #1.Those "upper class" broads are no different.

   



    Researcher

[Alabamaboy!]

Quote:  "I am ASKING for something very simple"  TELL / COMMAND do not ask.

Yep, you may be right. They sure do listen when a guy has a knife and is asking for their cell phone. Or if a FARC or Para rolls into town and demands whatever thing while toting an automatic weapon. They don't riot when the water gets turned off for days at a time and the government just takes their good old time to fix things. They seem to respond fairly well to brute force like that and don't bitch about it much. They just accept it as the "rules" and go on about their day.

[fathertime]

If you were in my shoes what would be your next step? Keep sending the money as before? Send more money to fix the computer even though she will be here in the States in 2 months? Cut the cash because they don't deserve it? Ignore everything?

It is a little late now, but I’d consider beginning to withdraw money from the relationship.  I get the feeling that money is going to be a major concern either directly or indirectly for quite a while.   In this case, you are actually relieving the family of a financial burden, I don’t see how that obligates you to contribute as much as you have been.   They will find a way to live the way they always have without attending all these birthday parties on your nickel. 
I think it would be much better for you and your wife to separate yourselves from the day to day decisions of the rest of her family.  Doing this will be much easier to do when she is living here.  I don’t ever see this group conforming to another person’s remote commands from afar.  Ultimately you will be resented, because as they say, ‘no good deed goes unpunished’ 


Fathertime! 

[Zon]

It does not have to be cruel or mean. 

When you look at behavior and respect in latin america, the strong / rich have a sense of authority ... the rest look for direction from them.  They expect it (maybe even need it)   

It is a constant and subtle thing.

[Alabamaboy!]

It is a little late now, but I’d consider beginning to withdraw money from the relationship.  I get the feeling that money is going to be a major concern either directly or indirectly for quite a while.   In this case, you are actually relieving the family of a financial burden, I don’t see how that obligates you to contribute as much as you have been.   They will find a way to live the way they always have without attending all these birthday parties on your nickel. 
I think it would be much better for you and your wife to separate yourselves from the day to day decisions of the rest of her family.  Doing this will be much easier to do when she is living here.  I don’t ever see this group conforming to another person’s remote commands from afar.  Ultimately you will be resented, because as they say, ‘no good deed goes unpunished’ 


Fathertime!

Yeah, for the long run, I agree with this strategy. Because we did not run into any of this when she was over here last year. Not even a peep out of anyone. Although we did send the boxes of things for them to do the "business" at that time and they basically failed with it. So they can hardly blame us for that.