What comes next after the divorce?

[Capstone]

I really cringe every time that I read or hear the argument from guys that they don't have the money to make enough trips to really get to know a girl properly. My response is that it is time for a reality check and you should probably conclude that an international relationship is just not right for you. Sorry but many guys just aren't cut out for it.


If a guy really can't afford to make enough trips to get to know a girl then he definitely does not have enough money to support her once she gets here - the costs of making those trips are nothing compared to the extra costs of supporting another person here in the US.  And once she does get here do these same guys actually believe that the traveling is over with?  Of course it isn't, she will want to go back from time to time to visit her family & friends and expecting her to do otherwise is pure fantasy. And any husband worth is salt will also want to accompany her on these trips in order to spend more time with her family - if you don't want to spend time with her family then you shouldn't marry her in the first place, as it will be a disaster waiting to happen.

[JWR]

"No, we don’t need anymore prostitutes or drug addicts. We don’t need any terrorists, communists, drug dealers, murderers, or folks with serious communicable diseases."
 
I agree.
　
"Yes, you have the right to choose your own girlfriend or mate as you see fit without government interference. However, you DO NOT have the right to bring a foreign national into this country to live with you without having her screened by the government".
 
Ray,
 
I live in San Diego, and there are thousands and thousands, and thousands of people just rambling across the border illegally without screening.  That horse already left the barn.
 
 
Do you feel that the screening that the Govt. does to guy's fiances, is any real value to helping the problem as a whole, and keeping us safe from terrorists, criminals, and spreading disease?  Have you been a prostitute? "No"  Have you been into drug dealing? "No".  It's a complete waste of time and limited resources.
 
With resources and considering the seriousness, of the problem with our borders, they should completely shut down this area of the immigration dept. and just put all the guys that are interviewing potential wives, on the border with a 4WD and some binoculars.
 
Just the fact that we are willing to bring a girl up here, and into our homes is better screening then the Govt. will ever do, and much better screening then the millions that are sneaking in as we speak.
 
It's not about what I choose to do, or not choose to do.  It's about freedom, and if you feel like the Govt. can be effective in keeping abuse from happening by limiting the time guys have to be with the girl before they are forced to make a decision about marriage.  Abuse by some sick individuals will happen if they are limited to 90 days, or 24 months.
 
I don't quite get why some of you guys think 90 days is enough.  Would you marry an American girl after 90 days, and 4-6 vacations with her in another country?  Guys marry too fast because of the immigration policies.  With the language, and cultural difference, it should take twice as long to make a decision.
 
It's about choice in the end.  With the right girl, 2 days is enough time, with the wrong girl, a lifetime is not enough time before marriage.  In this area of our lives, we should not have Govt. interference.

[robert angel]

Re:
 
>>>I don't quite get why some of you guys think 90 days is enough<<
 
It's not even 90 days--it's closer to 60 days that you have to really get married and stay in compliance with submitting all the paperwork on time, proving that you actually got married. Six months, better yet a year, would be  more ideal.
 
"What comes next after the divorce?" BILLS, of course~!

[Jeff S]

I'd agree - 90 days isn't enough if the only thing you'd done is spent a couple of short vacations with her previously... unless both of you are serious and committed.


What's the huge rush? An enormous number of posts here are: "I just got back, she's the one now how do I get here here the fastest and cheapest way possible?"


I spent more time with my wife before marrying (in her country) than I had with all but one local girls I'd dated or had serious relationships in my entire life. I spent time there and she here (months) over a span of nearly 3 years.


As Capstone says, don't play if you can't afford it - that applies with time as well as money.

[Ray]

"No, we don’t need anymore prostitutes or drug addicts. We don’t need any terrorists, communists, drug dealers, murderers, or folks with serious communicable diseases."

I agree.
　
"Yes, you have the right to choose your own girlfriend or mate as you see fit without government interference. However, you DO NOT have the right to bring a foreign national into this country to live with you without having her screened by the government".

Ray,

I live in San Diego, and there are thousands and thousands, and thousands of people just rambling across the border illegally without screening. That horse already left the barn.


Do you feel that the screening that the Govt. does to guy's fiances, is any real value to helping the problem as a whole, and keeping us safe from terrorists, criminals, and spreading disease? Have you been a prostitute? "No" Have you been into drug dealing? "No". It's a complete waste of time and limited resources.

With resources and considering the seriousness, of the problem with our borders, they should completely shut down this area of the immigration dept. and just put all the guys that are interviewing potential wives, on the border with a 4WD and some binoculars.

Just the fact that we are willing to bring a girl up here, and into our homes is better screening then the Govt. will ever do, and much better screening then the millions that are sneaking in as we speak.

It's not about what I choose to do, or not choose to do. It's about freedom, and if you feel like the Govt. can be effective in keeping abuse from happening by limiting the time guys have to be with the girl before they are forced to make a decision about marriage. Abuse by some sick individuals will happen if they are limited to 90 days, or 24 months.

I don't quite get why some of you guys think 90 days is enough. Would you marry an American girl after 90 days, and 4-6 vacations with her in another country? Guys marry too fast because of the immigration policies. With the language, and cultural difference, it should take twice as long to make a decision.

It's about choice in the end. With the right girl, 2 days is enough time, with the wrong girl, a lifetime is not enough time before marriage. In this area of our lives, we should not have Govt. interference.

　
JWR,
　
First, you don’t have to explain to me about the illegal alien problem in San Diego. I have lived in San Diego for the past 43 years and I live just a hop, skip, and a tortilla throw from the border. I’ve had illegals break into my home, steal things from my garage, steal my vehicles, etc., etc., etc.. You’re preaching to the choir here.
　
So because illegals are sneaking into the country already, we should stop screening visa applicants entirely? That’s completely irrational! The "illegal problem" is a separate matter for further discussion.
 
You have no "right" to bring any foreigner into this country! I’m sorry, but if you are going to bring a foreigner into MY country, I will demand that she be screened first. Because you want to play house with her in your home is of no concern to me. That’s your problem.
　
And you apparently still don’t get what the whole purpose of a fiancée visa is, do you? OK, let me try this one more time…
　
THE FIANCÉE VISA IS SOLELY FOR THE PURPOSE OF ALLOWING A COMMITTED COUPLE TO MARRY HERE IN THE USA. IT IS NOT FOR GETTING TO KNOW EACH OTHER BEFORE DECIDING WHETHER OR NOT TO COMMIT TO MARRIEAGE! THE DECISION TO MARRY IS SUPPOSED TO MADE BEFORE YOU FILE THAT FIANCÉE PETITION!
　
You don't need more than 90 days to marry. If you can’t arrange for a wedding and tie the knot within 90 days, then something is seriously wrong…
　
Ray
　

[dennislevy]

JWR et al.
 
This is the first time Ive read this thread.....and I want to say thank you for the thoughtful and introspective quality of your posts. I like your style.
 
Your ve talkd about some red light issues and been honest.
 
Sometimes beginning the next step is knowing what you DON T want. and you ve been clear on that.
 
I ve lived in Colombia for almot three years and I know VERY definitely what I dont want.   
 
The only people I miss are my son (almost 23 and self sufficient)  and my best friends a married couple who no matter what they may have thoguht of me have been true blue friends.  I am an only chuild and my parents are dead and my closest blood relatives are in Europe.  I have a civil but distant email friendship with my ex wife of 22 years...and she is  an American
 
I miss NO THINGS about the US, I discovered that I don t have to have the New York Times on my doorstep in the morning or a toasted bagel with cream cheese for breakfast or a nice car........
 
its jsut a question of adjusting your comfort level.
 
I dont what your financial situation is...but can you take a year away from yoir life inthe US?  And travel.....or live maybe Colombia, maybe the Philippines if you have to speak English...maybe some other country in Central or South America? and maybe live in THAT country?
 
I believe that there are two things that are worth doing in life
1. making yourself happy
2. Not deliberately hurtng other people.
 
Let me tell a quick story aobut the day that I kinew that my marriage was over.
 
This happened about 14 yars ago.  One of my best friends. after HIS divorce from an American woman went to Colombia about 10 months later for his forst trip.....and on his fourth trip found his love.
 
He bought her to the US and during the 90 days fanicee visa  made the plans to marry her.   He called me and asked me if I would come to San Francisco from my home in Oregon to be his best man.
 
I said of course....and when I told my wife...she said you should have asked me first beause Im not going and I won t  support Bob (my friend) in his effort to rediscover his youth with some Colombian floozie.
 
Bear in mind she had never met my friend s fiancee.
 
And something in me snapped, all the frustration and repressed anger after 18 years.
 
I just looked at her very coldy and said..... Im going to my friend s wedding YOU can stay here.....or you can go to hell.....I don t really care.....and you can think about the future of your marriage to me.....because I guarantee you, Im also going to think pretty hard.
 
It took me 4 more years and I was out of the marriage (we had a young son at home and I waited until he was 16) and three and a half more years until I came to Colombia.
 
Today,
1. Bob is stil l married to his Colombiana and HE is happy
2, My ex wife makes a lot of money and Im pretty sure hasnt had a date since the end of the marraige...and I dont thinks SHE is she truly happy.
3. And I m living in Colombia...and Im happy
     
JWR, DON T  worry about anyone else...figure out how to make yourself happy.

[JWR]

"You have no "right" to bring any foreigner into this country! I’m sorry, but if you are going to bring a foreigner into MY country, I will demand that she be screened first. Because you want to play house with her in your home is of no concern to me. That’s your problem."
 
Ray,
 
Ha ha ha. You crack me up.   Relax, take a deep breath.  Why so insulting and rude.  Do you ever go back and read your posts to see how nasty you come off?
 
Hasta luego,

[dennislevy]

And Colombia has a conjugal visa...good for three years.

1. You make an affidavit in front of a locla notary that you live together
2. You fill out paperwork, provide documentation, go to the to the Minstry of Foreign Affairs  in Bogota,
3 The women doenst have to appear
4. No  physcials,
5. no financial information,
6. There is a fee of something like 300,00 pesos,
7. the visa gets put in your passport,
8 you go to DAS within 15 days and you register it.

And no waiting period.

On this......Colombia has it exactly right..... 

[robert angel]

Most guys don't have the money or time to make repeated visits to S. America, never mind Asia. Sure it would be ideal to make multiple visits, but it's just not a practical reality for most couples. I see more than one visit with S. America focused guys, but usually one or two at best with most Asian focused fellows.
 
Further more, when you're in her country, while it does offer some very valuable time to learn about her, her family and friends, her culture--literally and figuratively 'where she's coming from', there' only so much that one can glean in the two or three weeks, I think most guys here often end up spending. It's also nice for HER to have more than 90 days over here before getting married, to see what she's gotten herself into, to better see if the man and the nation she's now in are right for her.
 
 
Really for the first six months or so, you don't really know the person--it's usually still 'honey moon time' and everybody's 'playing nice'.. You may not know they have the in laws and family from hell, drug, alcohol or other addictions, or a tendency towards extra marital affairs, etc. Takes a while before you realize that 90% of any money she makes or gets her hands on, is being sent home in some cases. Yea--you can go years w/o 'really' knowing somebody--even your spouse's 'true colors', but six months, maybe a year, and you should have a general idea, in most instances.
 
 
I don't think that with the numbers of Fiance' visas applicants entering the USA, or with the manner in which they are monitored, that it would present a great deal of potential harm to the USA's national/financial security, if we extended it six to twelve months before mandatory marriage or mandatory exit, especially when you compare the numbers and quality of fiance applicants as a whole to that of illegal aliens swarming across our porous borders.
 
I think we over estimate how much most foreign wives really like living in the USA. My wife and most of her friends, would move back to the their homeland in a minute, if they didn't love their husbands. No, they wouldn't even stick around to date other guys here I don't think. Most of them have been to Disney World, have seen how it is to work 40-50 hours a week, only to see how what you thought back home is HUGE money, doesn't go very far here.
 
Actually, if there was more time, I think that the numbers of  couples who divorce within two or three years would be reduced greatly, causing a lot less stress on the people, including families involved, as well as on the courts and govt. social services that inevitably are part of the mess when it all goes bad.

[fathertime]

We probably have 20 million illegals living here already and a couple thousand new arrivals just today.  I would not be too concerned about following any g-damn visa rules.  Fook our pathetic govt and it’s granny rules, those rules are in place for the dwindling population of suckers that still exist. 
I will take the rules more seriously, as soon as the govt. starts enforcing immigration and workplace enforcement, in a meaningful way.  As it stands if I had a woman that needed to get here and she was rejected for something I thought was unfair, I would pay somebody to bring her here (my immigration fees go to the coyote)  just like the dozen others that came across as I wrote this message.   The contagion of immigration lawlessness does not have to be confined to strictly the non citizens of mexico.  There are consequences for our govt. ignoring the populace


I agree that 3 months is a little tight.  I don’t give a shXX what the law says about bringing fiance’s here.  Most men are not going to be able to go to these foreign countries too often to REALLY get to know their woman, and besides what difference does it really make if you see your fiance 3 times for 7 days, or 6 times for 7 days, it just costs you a year out of your life and several thousand more dollars and you still don’t know for sure what you are getting into.   


I’m thankful, that I’ve been on the lucky side, but I completely side with our boys going to the foreign countries, over our pathetic govt.  6 months seems way more fair to me.


Fathertime!

[robert angel]

Did the Gulfstream start flowing south west instead of north easterly, or did FT and I actually come close to agreeing on something?

[Researcher]

     The reason illegal immigration has become such a problem is political....

                           


             A foreign woman being snuck across the border illegally has more of a chance being deported, why? because the illegals being ALLOWED to cross now are workers to be taken advantage of by farmers, manufacturers and construction companies. When men start bringing foreign women into the US to be with them as a girlfriend or wife that's when our government will step in and stop it, bringing the women not the workers.One of the dumbest statements I have heard was when Chris Matthews of MSNBC said "if all the illegal immigrants crossing the border looked like Heidi Klum  men would be down there welcoming them with open arms".....no duh!!!! I watch that idiotic channel sometimes to get a laugh. I got a good one that day!

           Researcher

[robert angel]

Regarding:
 
>>One of the dumbest statements I have heard was when Chris Matthews of MSNBC said "if all the illegal immigrants crossing the border looked like Heidi Klum  men would be down there welcoming them with open arms".....no duh!!!! I watch that idiotic channel sometimes to get a laugh. I got a good one that day!<<
 
Funny or not, I dare say that by and large, the gentic component of the vast majority of foreign wives that come here adds to the beauty, behavior and brains of this nation, which for the most part, seems to have a gene pool that is in need of a severe 'chlorine shock' treatment.
 
I also would venture a  guess that overall, they're harder working, more prone to saving dollars and not over extending their credit  than is the average American.

Between having pride in herself, her native country as well as being proud to be a US Citizen, by keeping herself lovely, behaving herself, working hard and encouraging me to keep flowers planted in the yard, my wife helps "Keep America Beautiful"!

[Researcher]

Most guys don't have the money or time to make repeated visits to S. America, never mind Asia. Sure it would be ideal to make multiple visits, but it's just not a practical reality for most couples. I see more than one visit with S. America focused guys, but usually one or two at best with most Asian focused fellows.
 

       I agree with you Robert but to me that is no excuse to not to make an effort to get to know someone before you get hitched.I went through one bad situation to learn the value of taking the time and making the effort to get to know my wife as best I could during a LDR. That meant daily contact via phone,email and webcamming along with visits to spend time with her and her family.You can learn surprisingly alot about someone if you learn how to observe and keep open to the fact that what you see isn't always what you get.That is if you don't get blinded by your own feelings and male hormones. Sure the distance is an obstacle when it comes to truly getting to know someone but it's an obstacle that can be overcome, and it's worth it.

             Researcher

[maritime04]

Anyone who wants to get married PERIOD, should know who your getting invloved with and take the time to know this person.
 
As stupid as Chris Matthews or “baby huey is i understand the point he was trying to make; but disagree. getting a women into the united states for marriage is alot more difficult then a company obtaining a OCS visa for a forien.
  As stupid as Chris Matthews or “baby huey” is i understand the point he was trying to make; but disagree. getting a women into the united states for marriage is allot more difficult than a company obtaining a OCS visa for a foreign worker to enter the USA for 6month or 5 years.
 
Its ok to import cheap labor, taking away american jobs, BUT socially unacceptable and made difficlut for a wife. go figure.
 
 

[dennislevy]

And Colombia has a conjugal visa...good for three years.

1. You make an affidavit in front of a local notary that you live together
2. You fill out paperwork, provide documentation, go to the to the Minstry of Foreign Affairs  in Bogota,
3 The women doenst have to appear
4. No  physcials,
5. no financial information,
6. There is a fee of something like 300,00 pesos,
7. the visa gets put in your passport,
8 you go to DAS within 15 days and you register it.

And no waiting period.

On this......Colombia has it exactly right.....

[robert angel]

Re:
>> that is no excuse to not to make an effort to get to know someone before you get hitched.I went through one bad situation to learn the value of taking the time and making the effort to get to know my wife as best I could during a LDR. That meant daily contact via phone,email and webcamming along with visits to spend time with her and her family.You can learn surprisingly alot about someone if you learn how to observe and keep open to the fact that what you see isn't always what you get.<<
 
Yup--I agree too! That must be why I took over  four years of  'getting to know' my wife, her family, friends, nation and culture, before actually asking her to marry me. (in person) Even with the patience of Job, she eventually gave me an ultimatum that she wouldn't wait past a certain point, but in my own pokey mind, me asking her for her hand was already a foregone conclusion.
 
I really doubt if many women would faithfully stick by one guy without a ring on their finger for that long, so while I don't encourage 3 or 4 month 'romances' leading to engagements, I don't think that waiting years in a LDR is going to work for many people.
 
 
Some may say: "Absence makes the heart grow fonder", but I'm afraid that all too often: "Absence makes the heart go wander"

"You can observe a lot by watching" (Yogi Berra)
"I like to watch" (Peter Sellers as 'Chance the Gardener', in "Being There)

[Researcher]

       Robert, 4 years...cripes!!! That is too long for sure.You are lucky she waited that long for sure.With daily contact and visits I don't think it would take that long to get to know someone in a LDR.There was a study done on courtship length and marriage.The ones that rushed into it didn't last any longer that ones that waited 5 years or so.The ones that courted 2 years give or take lasted the longest.

           Researcher

[maritime04]

 "Absence makes the heart go wander"


The Colombians have a saying that goes similar, cant recall it though.
 
Do you guys think that the Colombian culture is more suited for long distance relationships or complete opposit?
 
 

[chameleon]

       Robert, 4 years...cripes!!! That is too long for sure.You are lucky she waited that long for sure.With daily contact and visits I don't think it would take that long to get to know someone in a LDR.There was a study done on courtship length and marriage.The ones that rushed into it didn't last any longer that ones that waited 5 years or so.The ones that courted 2 years give or take lasted the longest.

           Researcher

Assuming you are suitably good at spanish, if you have daily contact, I'm pretty sure you'd get to know the woman faster. I've dated plenty of women up here, and i've always found that i'm a pretty freakin low priority when i first start seeing them. First, i know she's probably seeing at least one other guy, and continuing to go out on dates on a regular basis, and we never really talk that often. She's got her job, friends, etc. Plus, there's the attitude on both sides that nobody wants to appear needy so both keep their distance for longer than necessary imo. Rarely have I had a gf up here where we spoke every day, or anything even close to that.


I've only got the experience of one LDR to go on, but i got to know her much more quickly because we communicated in some for or other almost every single day.

[dennislevy]

The equivalent saying in Colombia for a LDR more or less is...
 
A LDE is perfect...for four people.
 
Meaning that both in the couple have someone in their lives.
 
Do I think that Colombianas are suited for LDRs.
 
Hell no! its yet another reason why I live in Colombia, And in Colombia I define a LDR as anything outside of the city or town where I am!
 
Dennis

[chameleon]

You guys are depressing [snip]s, you know that? 


Do you think there's such a big difference in attitudes in countries like Peru (where i had a v. positive experience) and Colombia?



Ultimately it'll come down to the individuals involved. When i was in my LDR, there was no question in my mind that she was seeing anyone else, and i stopped trying to find women here, even though a couple hot were were overtly trying to get with me. She was on the net chatting to me every night via msn or skype, and even when we were chatting, i had her complete attention. She put herself on busy and there was none of that going afk or replies taking longer than they should because she was talking to someone else. The only thing that really bothered me was her body type. It's superficial, I know... She was 5'2 low 100s, but she had the type of body that was guaranteed to pack on a lot of pounds and both of her parents were quite overweight. Attraction needs to last in a marriage or else it's doomed imo and I eventually broke it off.


Ultimately, a life-long relationship is worth sacrificing some sex for a year or two, and I would think that the type of woman you'd want to marry could understand that her long-term happiness is worth so much more than her immediate need to get off.

[dennislevy]

The saying about a perfect LDR in Colombia is a cultural joke always told with a smile and a shrug of the shoulders.


of course there are loyal faithful women in Colombia...one in Cali, two in Cartagena, three in Bogota......


just kidding!




There are lots of them and you broke up with one  because of her body type?


SHAME ON YOU!!!!!!!
 
jejejejeje.

[chameleon]

The saying about a perfect LDR in Colombia is a cultural joke always told with a smile and a shrug of the shoulders.


of course there are loyal faithful women in Colombia...one in Cali, two in Cartagena, three in Bogota......


just kidding!




There are lots of them and you broke up with one  because of her body type?


SHAME ON YOU!!!!!!!
 
jejejejeje.

Believe me, I felt bad about it, but what's worse, marrying someone and then it ending in divorce because you lose your attraction to her b/c she was doomed to be fat from the start (a combination of diet, genetics, and not really exercising)? Or just saving everyone the time, heartache, and potentially screwed up kids? It was better to end it. This time i am being more careful.

[maritime04]

dennis, it sounds better in spanish, and it is said with humor, but many believe it. i agree with you i can spend large amounts of time in Colombia, and even when i was doing 90 days at a time, it was just too long to be away and have a "girlfriend", amigas con drecho yes, but serious no, it wasnt till i cut that in half and when i was stuck for 5 months that i was able to make something serious happen. not saying LDR can not be done, just that its hard. minium for me in in country 6 months a year broken up in blocks
 
new term for the day LDR....
 
I have been with plenty of women who were dating overseas and openly said they have boyfriends. cheating is the culture here, just listen to the music!!
 
chamleon, i understand what you are saying, its shallow, but we are shallow beings. but weight gain is common problem for everybody type, with diet and healthy lifestyle or lippo surgery is an option but to dump someone you love becuase she could get fat, thats asking for karma to kick you in the ass, lets hope 20 years down the line you dont regret it.