What comes next after the divorce?

[JWR]

I've posted here a few time in the last year.  I was married to a nice Colombiana for 10 years and we divorced last year.  She's a good person, and we are still friends.  We just grew apart. So this is not a sob story about who did this or that.
 
Now for the big question.  What do you do after the divorce?
 
1st when you marry one of these girls, you often lose much of your credibility with people in your community.  Your guy friend's wives absolutely hate you, and you are often seen mostly as a desperate loser, and you become a great conversation topic.  Then when you get a divorce, people just love the "I knew it was coming".  Many times the guys were jealous because you had a nice looking wife, and your failure reinforces why they never had the guts to try what you did.  While I was married, I could care less what people thought because I went home to a nice wife.  When the house is empty, there is more time to contemplate the current state of affairs with your old friends.
 
So do you try to date American Women again?
 
Well yes that is a nice thought, and you can give it a try.  But when you are in your late 40s, the women are mostly fat, negative, have 2 or 3 kids, and here's the shocker......they want a guy that makes over 100k a year and is younger.  Not all of the American women are like this of course, but the girls that are nice, and decent looking have so many guys to choose from, it's almost impossible.  Also you get spoiled if your marriage was any good at all, and it's pretty hard to go back and settle.
 
So do you go back to Colombia to look for another girl?
 
Well that's also a nice thought.  Ok been there and done that for 3 months.  But if you had a good marriage, this is pretty painful to start this process all over again.  And if your friends and aquaintances hear you are in Colombia looking for another wife, you may as well plan on changing most of your friends when you get back.  That is if there are many left anyway that is.  Even if you are good friends with your ex-wife, people will assume that you must have done something truly awful to her, and that is why the marriage failed.
 
How about trying to look in another country...say the Philippines?
 
Maybe that is a good idea.  Try another culture all together.  They speak English over there so you at least won't have to go through all the language challenges, and all the misunderstandings you had in the 1st year of marriage to a Colombiana.  After a Colombian wife, when you bring your new Philippino wife home, your friends will have loads of fun at the parties making fun of that.
 
Do you just sit at home alone, work your butt off, and give up women altogether for a while?
 
Well if you are trying to date nice American women again, you can just about do both of these at the same time.  I guess this works for a while until you are completely miserable.
 
So what is the answer?
 
Divorce really is awful no matter from what country she is from, but somehow I think divorce from your wife from abroad is much worse.  You go back to a single life with many friends that have alienated you, and your standards are set higher for a girl then most likely you can attract in your home town.  It really is a dillemma.
 
Sorry if this post is a bit on the negative side, but maybe something to think about.
 
What do you guys think?
 
 

[Researcher]

       JWR you are correct.Divorce is not a pleasant thing in most cases.I've been there myself but not with a foreign woman.My wife talks about us being together for the rest of our lives and I hope that's how it works out but I am aware of the possibilities.

      I don't think I would have any trouble going back to Colombia or the Philippines to find a wife.I'd take some time to get over things and get situated in my life but I would return. I could care less about what others think. I know you can't tell from my postings here but I put more value on being up front than whether or not people like me..hehehe.

    People do grow apart in marriage.It happens no matter where you are from.Sometimes things just don't work out.

    Thanks for posting.
        Researcher

[chameleon]

I'm not qualified to speak about marriage or divorce, but I can speak about friendship...


My opinion is f*ck what your friends and their wives think. How often do you see them anyway? By contrast, you would have to go home to your fat AW or empty house every night and that will have much more bearing on your happiness. My best friend is a woman btw and she's actually totally supportive of me and my plans. Hell, she even knows i've used escorts in the past and hasn't judged me! That's a good friend.



Frankly though, I've been nothing but disappointed over the years by most people I once considered friends, so their judgment would have no bearing on my decisions. I'm young, in shape, relatively handsome and make a solid six figure salary and CAN land AWs, but I don't want them anymore. I still date them most of the year in the hope that one day I'll meet one that's grounded in reality and has solid values, but most live in a fantasy world of unrealistic expectations/demands. To hell with that...


And I don't know what your career is like, but if you really don't like the idea of explaining everything to everyone, you could always move...

[Ray]

 
JWR,
 
Do you have children? Do you want more children or are you looking mostly for a companion?
 
Most Filipinas under 40 will want to make babies, unless they already have one or two.
 
Get rid of those stupid friends of yours!
 
Ray
 
 

[JWR]

Ray,
 
I wanted to have a child.  All my family passed away.  My ex Colombiana hates kids.  I was wanting a child, and she told me to go find someone to have a child with.  Not that simple but close.
 
Many years ago, a friend told me to never get serious with a women who didn't like kids.  He said that women who don't like kids have a "hardness" and "coldness" about them that will eventually include you.  I think he was right.  When we got married the child issue was someday, someday turned into maybe, maybe turned into absolutely not.  People don't change much, but their desires sometimes do.
 
I also don't care much about what people think, and I have good friends who have stood by me.   Other good friends have surprised me by their lousy behavior lately.
 
For you guys that are still searching, I'm going to point something out.  There are many girls in Colombia that have been victims of violence, lost family members to violence, and have experienced really traumatic things.  If you choose to marry a girl with a very difficult past, you may be dealing with serious issues that effect your marriage in the future.  PTSD, trust, and other issues.  After we were married, I found 2 bullet scars in my wife's leg that I hadn't noticed before.  And that's all I'm going to say about that.

[JWR]

Chameleon,
 
Thanks for that.  I find it interesting that you are young, and good looking, and make a good living, and you are about finished with American women.  Before I got married, when I was younger, I had great experiences with American women.  It just seems like as they get older, they're expectations get more unrealistic with time.  After I get a little more settled, I just may move again.  I am able to retire, and tried living in Colombia, but just didn't like it much after a while.

[fathertime]

Ray,
 
I wanted to have a child.  All my family passed away.  My ex Colombiana hates kids.  I was wanting a child, and she told me to go find someone to have a child with.  Not that simple but close.
 

Hey JWR!



Wow that part of your story is REALLY sucko.  I frankly have never chosen to put up with ‘I’ll have a child later’ crapola, from a lady. 10 years is a damn long time, I’d would have been outta there a lot sooner if a wife of mine were keeping me from having a child I desired.  Obviously having a child is a mutual decision, but the yearly postponements you must have endured must have been tortuous or at least pretty irritating.


   My feelings on this are that men are at the mercy of a woman when it comes to bearing children, so it is critical to really make sure a woman is on the same page as you and then later hold her to it, if that becomes necessary.   I’ve heard a variation of your story repeated more than once from others.  If I were to keep hearing a woman/wife postpone a child over a period of a year or 2, I’d would give her a ‘relationship clock’ to be concerned about with the dreaded ultimatum and let her choose, try to have a child with me NOW, or choose to move on to relationships that are more suiting to our differing life’s aspirations.   I’ve never had to implement this, but I am certain I would.  It is my opinion that the men of this board that are in marriages where they are having these child postponement issues also, should press the issue!


       


On a positive note for you JWR,  you are only in your late 40’s, and can still make it all happen, but I THINK you gotta get that old positive attitude back first.  Your new adventure is just beginning and you should seize the opportunity and let this woman from the past fade from your memory.    It sounds like you are still travelling so you are bound to find another desirable woman ready for marriage, if that is indeed what you want.


Good luck!
Fathertime!     

[maritime04]

There are some fears i have about  getting "hitched"..........well it work out, will she change. ect..
 
as everybody stated, you need to forget what your friends think.
 
My girlfriend and i often talk about family, i agree if a girl doesnt want or like children it shows a level of coldness, and selfishness, having a family is a huge life changer and can represent a level of responsiblity ( not 100% ) and caring. I have been observing my girl alot and i think she would make a great mother, its a large part of why i am choosing to start a family with her.
 
 

[jvoorhees]

Saying I don't give a f*ck what my friends and family think is easier said than done.  Even when you are right, it is hard to be alone.  Especially when many people who you trusted and value seem to turn on you.
 
Personally, I have always be a person that marches to the beat of my own drummer.  I married my high-school sweetheart when I was a senior in college.  Our families thought we were a great couple and were excited to see us get married one day and have children.  But when we decided to get married before I had finished school (god forbid), they turned on us.  We ended up aloping because they would not accept the wedding date we picked.
 
That and other things lead to resentment.  Even though my new bride and I knew we were right, it hurt tremendously to have lost their support and suddenly feel alienated.  It changed my wife.  And she was never the same.  And I think was a major component to our divorce.
 
Now several years later when I am single and on the cusp of my adventure in Colombia to search for a woman who loves me and wants to have a family with me, that is my biggest fear and reservation.  I fear the reaction of my friends and family.
 
But despsite that fear, I am excited to move on.  And I need to march to the beat of my own drum regardless of the consequences.
 
And at least I have the wisdom and experience of my previous marriage.  And if my friends and family start getting weird, I can pull them aside and tell them that any problems they have are their issue.  And that they need to get over it cause it is my life.  And I need to make my own decisions and live with any consequences I get.  And I need them too, so if they truely love me, they will support me.

[chameleon]

Saying I don't give a f*ck what my friends and family think is easier said than done.  Even when you are right, it is hard to be alone.  Especially when many people who you trusted and value seem to turn on you.
 
Personally, I have always be a person that marches to the beat of my own drummer.  I married my high-school sweetheart when I was a senior in college.  Our families thought we were a great couple and were excited to see us get married one day and have children.  But when we decided to get married before I had finished school (god forbid), they turned on us.  We ended up aloping because they would not accept the wedding date we picked.
 
That and other things lead to resentment.  Even though my new bride and I knew we were right, it hurt tremendously to have lost their support and suddenly feel alienated.  It changed my wife.  And she was never the same.  And I think was a major component to our divorce.
 
Now several years later when I am single and on the cusp of my adventure in Colombia to search for a woman who loves me and wants to have a family with me, that is my biggest fear and reservation.  I fear the reaction of my friends and family.
 
But despsite that fear, I am excited to move on.  And I need to march to the beat of my own drum regardless of the consequences.
 
And at least I have the wisdom and experience of my previous marriage.  And if my friends and family start getting weird, I can pull them aside and tell them that any problems they have are their issue.  And that they need to get over it cause it is my life.  And I need to make my own decisions and live with any consequences I get.  And I need them too, so if they truely love me, they will support me.

I would argue that since a real friend is ultimately most concerned with whether you're going to be happy with your own decision or not and would not want to ruin a friendship over something that has no bearing on them, then I would have no issues parting with those that made it an issue. If they are going to talk [snip] about you behind your back because you've found a way to land a more desirable woman that will make you happier, then they're not really friends. They're just people you spend time with that you maybe share a hobby or activity with to pass time. Family is trickier, but ultimately, if you've got a good family, they'll be more accepting in the end, even if it takes them some time to warm up to the idea. Again though, for me personally, it's a non-issue. I just don't care what they think because they're hardly in a position to judge.


The only time i'd offer different advice is if your career is highly social/political and demanding of a particular sort of wife in order to fit in and get ahead. If you're not attending black tie events on a fairly regular basis, it's probably not much of a concern.


Also, you don't HAVE to tell anyone the whole truth. Using an agency has a certain stigma, but if you just say that you met someone online, it'll probably go over a lot smoother because the stigma with online dating is pretty much gone these days.

[michaelb]

As chameleon points out, some people are merely "acquaintances"  and some are friends. And as he said, your friends will be concerned about your happiness, not about using you as a "talking point"......but some friends may sincerely be trying to help you with their advice (even if you don't agree with it or follow it).....at least hear them out politely. After that, thank them for their concern and firmly (but still politely) tell them that it is your life and it is your decision. Even if things blow up in your face (which of course I hope doesn't happen), a true friend will give one (or two maximum) "I tried to warn you"s and then still be there for you. If the "acquaintances" give you a hard time......heck with them.

As a now deceased friend of mine used to say "I was born with my family, I'm stuck with the people I work with, but I choose my friends".

[JWR]

jvoorhees,
 
If you go into this with your eyes wide open, and are ready for the possible negative reaction from your friends and family, then it won't be such a shock.  In most cases, your guy friends will be ok with it, but it's the American women that cause most of the problems.  In the last 10 years I have had the wives of my guy friends try to sabotage our friendships in a few instances.  They simply often don't want their husbands, or boyfriends around you.  They see you as a bad influence, and a threat.  It always starts with the incessant questions to your new wife such as, "how did you meet, and how old are you?"  They ask questions that are inappropriate, and would never ask a US/US couple.  In the beginning you'll get a little hot, then in time you will learn to deal with it in your own way.
 
After 10 years and looking back, I've developed a bit different view on how I would handle it if I had it to do over again.  1st you assume that you will be married for life, so what is the big hurry in integrating your new wife into your family and friends?  Most of us tend to want to take our new wives out, and immediately introduce her to everybody.  I would just skip all that for a while, and keep my relationship very, very private.  Don't put her out there on the "firing line" where she is exposed to the snide questions disguised with a smile.  When people ask lame questions about your relationship, don't feel obligated to answer the questions.  People somehow think because she is International that they should be privy to these very personal details.  It's none of anybodies business!  I've answered the questions many ways, but one of my favorites is.  How old is your wife? "GOOD QUESTION", then I immediately change the subject.  If they ask where did you meet, or how did you meet?, and you don't feel like answering, I've answered, "that's classified" or just ignored the question and changed the subject.  You have many years to integrate her into your life slowly, and there is no rush to do it while she is still in culture shock.
 
When you are eventually 1st out with her with your friends and family, I would tell her on the way over to the gathering that "we may not stay long".  Make a special dinner reservation, and stay with your friends for a half hour.  Then if any nonsense starts up, I would just leave the party quietly but quickly without any confrontations.  If it's going well, you can cancell your dinner reservations.  I would give your friends and family the clear message from the 1st day that you are not going to be opening this part of your life up to them unless they are going to behave respectfully.  Once you have figured out who is going to behave, and who is not, then you can very slowly integrate your "good friends" back into your life as a couple.  You may be surprised who your "good friends" are.  Do not assume how anybody will react to your decision to bring your wife here from Colombia.  You just won't know until you do it.
 
I had one experience with my best friend"s wife that was very hard to deal with.  She told my best friend that after I left for work, my wife was coming over to their house and crying that I was beating her.  That put me in a position of calling his wife a liar. My wife had only been to their house a couple times with me for dinner, and actually didn't like this women much.  My wife was extremely insulted by this after hearing about it because this implied that she was "weak" and would let this happen.  Anybody that knows my wife would laugh at this story.  She's a very strong women, and I would be a dead man.....  After all she learned English from 0, went to College and got a BS degree, and now is an RN in an intensive care unit.  Smart and strong.
 
I relate these stories not to discourage you, but to just open your eyes to the unpredictable possibilities and ramifications of what you are about to do.  Just don't be surprised by any of it, protect your wife, and don't expose her to any unnecessary negativity.  Believe me after she is in the US a couple of years, and speaks English well, she will be in a better position to stand up for herself. It's just in the beginning that she needs a little more care in these matters.  Take it slow.
 
Your experience my differ of course.

[braziliangirl]

That is interesting, JWR. Thank you for your very insightful posts.

This is one of my biggest concerns. Do you think being able to speak English in a reasonable level has some influence on the reaction? Also, I have heard that with Black-Latina couples things are different. It seems like it is easier to accept that combination than a White-Latina one. What do you think?

[chameleon]

That is interesting, JWR. Thank you for your very insightful posts.

This is one of my biggest concerns. Do you think being able to speak English in a reasonable level has some influence on the reaction? Also, I have heard that with Black-Latina couples things are different. It seems like it is easier to accept that combination than a White-Latina one. What do you think?

I don't think anyone would bat an eyelash at a white/latina relationship. The issues that arise are more likely to stem from the circumstances in which you met (an agency or foreign dating site) and the stigma associated with that and to be aggravated by the age difference.

[chameleon]

Chameleon,
 
Thanks for that.  I find it interesting that you are young, and good looking, and make a good living, and you are about finished with American women.  Before I got married, when I was younger, I had great experiences with American women.  It just seems like as they get older, they're expectations get more unrealistic with time.  After I get a little more settled, I just may move again.  I am able to retire, and tried living in Colombia, but just didn't like it much after a while.

Well, I'm 31 and live in a large city where it's difficult to meet people and so i've been using online dating sites. Many of the women i date are highly educated on top of being attractive and having good careers, but they leave me feeling cold. Maybe i haven't found the right one, but I feel like i have to chase and put tons of effort in yet i get fairly little in return emotionally. It's a very empty experience.  I have dated a couple recently immigrated latinas and it was a very different feeling. I guess I'm partly chasing that feeling because i haven't gotten it from an AW since i was in college.

[JWR]

Language ability definitely effects how people treat you in this country.  As my wife's English has improved with time, she has been treated with less discrimination.  As a white guy,  I have never experienced some of the things that she experienced when she 1st came here. Mexicans have gotten a bad rap lately, and she has been treated with disrespect at times with people thinking she is an illegal Mexican.  I've seen it happen when I was standing 10 feet away, then when I stepped up next to her, watch the attitude change in seconds.  Some ignorant people think that accent, or lack of English equates to stupidity.  When my wife started college, a few of my idiotic friend's wives asked her "well do you think you can handle that" in a condescending way.  They shut up after she started work as an RN.
 
I don't know how the reaction would differ from a Black/Latina vs White/Latina relationship.
 
I believe that some of the treatment we get is our own fault in some ways.  When we get back to the US after our trips, we start yacking about how many girls we dated down there, what a great time we had, maybe our Agency experience, and how many girls we met in a day. It's normal to want to talk about and share our experiences. Then our guy friends spread the stories around, and we start looking bad before our new wife ever gets on the plane.  Then when she gets here, people already have their minds made up because they already heard the stories and are already judging.
 
So I think keeping your mouth shut about all of it to everybody is the best policy.  Come on this board if you want to yack.  Don't tell anybody anything outside this circle.  It's all top secret.  It will be easier on your wife when she gets here, the less people know the better.

[braziliangirl]

 Thanks JWR and chameleon. I get that discrimination may change according to the region in the USA. Maybe that is why I got somewhat different answers from each of you.

[chameleon]

Thanks JWR and chameleon. I get that discrimination may change according to the region in the USA. Maybe that is why I got somewhat different answers from each of you.

Definitely. Immigration is a touchy subject. The areas it affects most are the SW states so that is probably where they'd be most sensitive to it.

[Chris F]

After I get a little more settled, I just may move again.  I am able to retire, and tried living in Colombia, but just didn't like it much after a while.

Hi JWR!!
 
I was wondering why you did not like living in Colombia after a while. Some guys have gone expat and have been very happy with the single life style there with plenty of women to chose from. Could you go into detail on why you chose to return to the U.S.?
 

[euforia51]

So I think keeping your mouth shut about all of it to everybody is the best policy.  Come on this board if you want to yack.  Don't tell anybody anything outside this circle.  It's all top secret.  It will be easier on your wife when she gets here, the less people know the better.

Hey JWR:
I definitely agree with this statement. I mean, who needs the additional hassle of the uninformed and ignorant passing judgment with something they most likely know nothing about? On the other hand, many of us also adopt the attitude of saying screw what people think of foreign relationships. So with that in mind, I guess one must find a balance that is suitable to one's own situation.
As for me, I am keeping my relationship low profile. Outside of my immediate family, only a couple of people in my everyday interactions know what I'm up to. Although, I suspect more people may be aware because not everyone can keep their mouth shut. Nonetheless, and oddly enough, I like it this way. I am a very private person to begin with and have a very low threshold for tolerating drama, BS, and other crap that people throw at you from time to time. You mention your friends questioning if your ex could handle college in a condescending way. For me, that in itself would be enough to cut the ties right there and give them the proverbial bird.
This is turning into a very good thread!

[Researcher]

        JWR, man I have to say you have had some pretty lousy experiences with your friends and their wives.After my wife arrived she made friends easy, mostly latin folks.I have a few close friends and that's how I like it but I have to say being a part of the latin community around here has been enjoyable. The age difference and the fact that I'm a gringo doesn't seem to matter alot. One guy in our group told me once that he thought I was a smart white guy because I recognized the value of a good latin woman. I can see some of the things you are talking about in my gringo friends but it's not as bad as you have described.My family has been very supportive.

           Researcher

[maritime04]

you asked what comes next after divorce
 
and i have been thinking, as always advice stinks, but if i were you i would travel alot, do things you want to do for yourself, if money and time is a problem find stuff close by, that you have always wanted to do.
 
being alone can suck, but just going out and fnding the first lady you meet as company is just covering. i go to sea for a living, and alot of that time i spent alone on watch, i enjoyed standing the midnight to 4, gave me time to reflect and think about what i want, where i want to go; what i want to do ect...it helped give me focus. Sometimes being alone can give you some perspective on yourself, It sounds like you are terrified (maybe wrong) of living and being alone, that you want to just go back out there and fill the void. Thats my two cents, worthless advice.

[fathertime]

by dumb luck i ran into an old friend this weekend that i hadn't seen in a while...he is a facebook buddy too...among other things he asked me how old my wife was and i told him......there were no follow up questions that i thought were negative so there was no reason for me to be annoyed....i find that most friends are a little curious about how these international relationships but i dont;' take that to mean their curiosity is malicious so i let people probe a bit...I don't see a reason to be too tightly wound up about my life and my choices.

Fathertime!

[JWR]

Ok,
 
My early posts sort of focused on the "challenges" we had.  But I have to say right now that we have had many fantastic experiences from friends and acquaintances.  People that were supportive, accepting and just love my ex-wife.  Very positive things have happened over the years.  I cut off the friends that weren't supportive very quickly.  I really don't have any regrets, but maybe staying in the marriage so long.  Should have got out about 5 years ago, but we are just really good friends.  Sometimes time just goes by in a relationship because it's comfortable and easy.  If you all have the friendship that I've had with my wife, then you will be married for a long time, or forever.
 
I didn't like living in Colombia, because I didn't have the energy after my divorce to move around the Country and try some other areas.  I stayed in Barranquilla, and I just don't like this city for several reasons.  I dated some, but really didn't find any girls that I liked much.  With more time, that would most likely change, but I would not go back to BQ. 
 
Interesting your comments Maritime.  As a coincidence, I just delivered my sailboat from Florida to San Diego through the Panama canal.  I had 2 months of late night watches to think about things. 
 
 

[chameleon]

Ok,
 
My early posts sort of focused on the "challenges" we had.  But I have to say right now that we have had many fantastic experiences from friends and acquaintances.  People that were supportive, accepting and just love my ex-wife.  Very positive things have happened over the years.  I cut off the friends that weren't supportive very quickly.  I really don't have any regrets, but maybe staying in the marriage so long.  Should have got out about 5 years ago, but we are just really good friends.  Sometimes time just goes by in a relationship because it's comfortable and easy.  If you all have the friendship that I've had with my wife, then you will be married for a long time, or forever.
 
I didn't like living in Colombia, because I didn't have the energy after my divorce to move around the Country and try some other areas.  I stayed in Barranquilla, and I just don't like this city for several reasons.  I dated some, but really didn't find any girls that I liked much.  With more time, that would most likely change, but I would not go back to BQ. 
 
Interesting your comments Maritime.  As a coincidence, I just delivered my sailboat from Florida to San Diego through the Panama canal.  I had 2 months of late night watches to think about things.

If you're still friends, i take it she didn't rape you in the divorce? That's always good.