Tell me about your "Dream Plan"

[euforia51]

Andy...
One concern I would have regarding your life in the village(s), for one is the FARC. If I understand correctly, they are scattered about the rural areas and smaller villages; as opposed to larger cities such as Medellin or Bogota. Although, I would suspect they have many foot soldiers in the form of street gangs in the cities as well.
Do you pay attention to things like this or are you in an area where they are not a problem?

[JWR]

Andy,
 
Thanks for a great post.
 
I've lived in Costa Rica, and owned a sailing catamaran snorkel business.  I've also lived in Cali with my wife, and recently in Barranquilla for a few months single.
 
First I would like to congratulate you on getting good deals on apartments and rentals.  Even though I speak workable spanish, I just couldn't find an inexpensive decent place to rent.  I got the gringo tax bad every time.  Also I would like to know if you rent these places furnished, or you have bought furniture?
 
Living abroad has always been a dream of mine, and I've tried it 3 times.  Each time I just couldn't get comfortable, and feel like I was at home.  It's just me I guess.  I'm still dreaming about this, and I might just go check out the Philippines in Oct.  While I was in Barranquilla I got an invitation to visit and live with some friends in Cartago near where you live.  At this time, I was just "over" the Colombia adventure and on my way out.  After reading your post, I may have to go back and check it out.
 

[no comment]

Folks in their 40's thinking about early retirement must be much more optimistic than I.  The US economy sucks right now, there are few returns on investments and many have taken a hit to retirement savings with the stock market downturn of a few years ago.


Jimmy St.L, I wonder if you have rooting interests in the runoff election in early June or if it would effect your plans?

[raycjs]

Andy your home and area looks great AB my girl and her family are from a small town called Baranoa i found some really nice homes there that i would be very comfortable living during the winter months...and living in my present home in the summer.... so far all my plans are right on course with the present economy so it can only get better if and when the economy improves....



Ray

[whitey]

AndyLee - that's an amazing place you have, especially at the price!

This is a very fun and interesting topic - I've spent so many hours dreaming about it and talking about it with Nazly, but even more with a buddy of mine who also has a Colombian novia and wants to eventually live somewhere in South America.
 
Right now I have the opportunity to live in Colombia for a couple years, and it's VERY tempting, but Nazly and I have decided that it makes more sense long term for her to move to Canada and live there for 7-10 years, and then live permanently or half the year in Colombia. 
 
She has an investment property that she owns and rents out in Barranquilla that needs another 3-4 years before it will be completely paid off.  At that time, we may purchase another one and pay it off in 5 years or so.  Then we could either sell them and buy a nice place to live in together, or just rent for awhile and use the income from the two properties to pay the rent and utilities.
 
There are just so many options to consider that I'm finding it really hard to zero in on one plan:

1) What country?  Costa Rica is too gringo-fied.  Panama has better retirement/investment options, Ecuador is cheaper.  For us, it will be Colombia since Nazly has her family there and we both like it.
 
2) Live half the year in Colombia and half in Canada, or full time in Colombia?  Living in two places seems like having the best of both worlds, but there are pluses and minuses.  Living in one place gives you the option to work (even if only part time), and is less costly since you only need to have one property.  But living in Canada at least half time qualifies us both for "free" health care and puts time towards a small Canadian pension that Nazly would qualify for after 10 years.  I love Colombia, but as Robert wonders, could I handle it full time?
 
3) Where to live in Colombia?  Realistically, since Nazly's family lives in Barranquilla, we would have to live there, or close by like Puerto Colombia or Santa Marta.  Nazly has a dream to live on the beach.  I like it there, but don't know if I could do it full time.  I like having the options for doing things in the bigger cities and really loved Medellin, but maybe after awhile the noise and pollution and traffic would get to me and I'd want something smaller and more peaceful.
 
4) Rent or buy?  Renting may cost more in the long run (at least in oportunity cost as you don't have a property increasing in value), but it may not be a big difference.  On the plus side, it makes a huge amount of sense to rent for a few years while checking out various cities or even neighbourhoods within cities.  Moving all the time would probably get old for me fast, but who knows?  Probably tougher with a wife than when you're alone.

5) Work or not work?  Nazly will be only 45 in 10 years, and I won't be dead yet.  We've thought about teaching English together at one of the universities in Barranquilla for a couple years, then maybe teaching privately under our own schedule.
 
 For now, it's a lot of fun to think about, and gives us a reason to save and plan.  We'll probably change our minds many times over the next years, but one thing is for sure ... I'll be living at least half the year somewhere in Colombia!

[utopiacowboy]

" But living in Canada at least half time qualifies us both for "free" health care and puts time towards a small Canadian pension that Nazly would qualify for after 10 years. "

Exactly why I am planning to live half the year on a ranch in southern Saskatchewan near the Montana border.

[Micky]

OR health care in Colombia - I pay 67.000 COP for a family of three.
Micky

[euforia51]

3) Where to live in Colombia?  Realistically, since Nazly's family lives in Barranquilla, we would have to live there, or close by like Puerto Colombia or Santa Marta.  Nazly has a dream to live on the beach.  I like it there, but don't know if I could do it full time.  I like having the options for doing things in the bigger cities and really loved Medellin, but maybe after awhile the noise and pollution and traffic would get to me and I'd want something smaller and more peaceful.
 
4) Rent or buy?  Renting may cost more in the long run (at least in oportunity cost as you don't have a property increasing in value), but it may not be a big difference.  On the plus side, it makes a huge amount of sense to rent for a few years while checking out various cities or even neighbourhoods within cities.  Moving all the time would probably get old for me fast, but who knows?  Probably tougher with a wife than when you're alone.

Hey whitey ... good to hear from you again...

I'm definitely not ready to make a move to Colombia just yet. But reading your thoughts, among others, has given me food for thought. I enjoy Medellin from what little I have seen of it in the two times I've been thus far. But on the downside of it, I agree that I just can't seem to lose the memory of the heavy and chaotic traffic and the occasional stench of diesel and motorcycle/moped exhaust.

To rent or buy ... here in the States, it seems right about now, if you're renting, you've got a big leg up on those with an upside-down mortgage since the collapse of housing market. It's anyone's guess as to how soon we will recover from this mess. Personally, being a single, home-owner myself, I wish had been renting all along. I admire the freedom that Andy Lee has with his set up in the small villages. Looks like he can get real nice places on the cheap; and if his situation changes, he can move freely to greener pastures and not look back. There's a lot to be said for the concept of freedom. And I definitely want a piece of it. To me, this is the true American dream.

For me, I think the only way I could live happily in Colombia is with a good woman with a solid family structure. Glory has this covered already. Obviously, this requires much more thought. So I'm thankful for everyone who's also thinking about it and posting on it.

[JimmySTLOUIS]

Folks in their 40's thinking about early retirement must be much more optimistic than I.  The US economy sucks right now, there are few returns on investments and many have taken a hit to retirement savings with the stock market downturn of a few years ago.


Jimmy St.L, I wonder if you have rooting interests in the runoff election in early June or if it would effect your plans?

it would affect my plans possibly

if Humala gets elected and sht hits the fan then my wifes parents and sister would come to St Louis (paperwork already sent to the state dept from Homeland Security)

I have a lot of my IRA in the stock SCCO - Southern Copper
its a Mexican co with big copper mines in Peru and the stock is down since the election

if any of you guys are investors  - SCCO is a great stock that pays a nice divi (if Fujimori wins then jump in)

I am covering both basis right now

TE AMO PERU!

Jim

[AndyLee]

Thanks everyone for all the nice comments....I'll answer some questions.


FARC....is active in areas along borders with Venezuela, Ecuador and Peru and in the northern part of Antioquia and southwest of Cali and down around Neiva. Nothing anywhere close to where i am so I don't worry about it. JimD scared 'em all off anyway.
Most serious thing that happens here on Saturday night is a campesino gets drunk and hurts himself trying to get his machete out of its sheath. It's rare that two of these drunks can unholster their machetes at the same to have a real knife fight. Happens occasionally, not too often. It is kind of funny to see the horses and mules tied up outside the disco on Saturday nights though. I'll take a picture next time to show you all. These are some bored looking horses. Ocassionally you'll see a drunk horse without a rider but that's pretty rare.


The house I'm renting now came partly furnished. I own a used washing machine and used refrigerator and a desk and chair for my computer. If I move suddenly I can dump it all on the used market and get most of my money back. Somebody said in another post that it costs about $5000 to furnish a 3 and 2. I'd say that's about right if you buy everything new at Home Center or Carrefour. There are lots of places to buy stuff used though, or have it made, where it is a lot cheaper.


Am I serious about living in the US 6 months and Colombia 6 months? Well, yes and no. I used to have a really nice 35' travel trailer and could move around freely in the US and follow the sun and the whitewater kayaking and take off wilderness camping a lot. Now that gas prices are so high I'm not sure that's such a good lifestyle anymore. Still, it has it's attraction and charm. I might go back to that lifestyle, providing my Colombiana likes whitewater kayaking and wilderness camping.


Worried about the value of the dollar tanking? Hell yes, just like everyone else. I wonder how much more debt the US can float with the Chinese. Float is a good word for it. Another name for it is check kiting. It's when you write a check that you hope you can cover before the 3 days is up. How in hell the US is going to pay all its debt is beyond me. We're all walking around stupid, thinking the Chinese don't own us.


Would I start a b & m business in Colombia "to help make ends meet?" Hell No! that's the stupidest thing you can do. Read Jeff's post for the best idea....start an Internet business like I did.

[no comment]

I own a used washing machine and used refrigerator and a desk and chair for my computer. If I move suddenly I can dump it all on the used market and get most of my money back. Somebody said in another post that it costs about $5000 to furnish a 3 and 2. I'd say that's about right if you buy everything new at Home Center or Carrefour. There are lots of places to buy stuff used though, or have it made, where it is a lot cheaper.

Certainly not a disposable culture down there, so you've got the 2nd, 3rd and 4th hand market even without E-bay.  A lot of objects are expensive while labor to maintain & repair is cheap. My wife will be aghast at what she will see discarded in the street when she gets here soon.

[Gato4Astrid]

About 10 years ago, I dream of living on Cape Town (South Africa) in a house with sea and Table Mountain view. 

[JimD]

Gato that sounds like a pretty cool dream. I probobly won´t ever leave Colombia but just in case what kind of living costs are we talking on the coast in South Africa?
Andy safety especially safety from the FARC is relative and always a fluid picture. You might feel safe as a bug in a rug in some town while ten miles away they´re shelling the police station with propane cooking gas cylinders. I imagine many posters here who have visited Cali have gone up to Lago Calima. Huge tourist traffic there most weekends. If you went there you certainly crossed the dam with the power station just below in order to get to the popular lake access points. Well just last week a police officer was shot dead as he crossed the dam on his moto by FARC hiding in that stunning mountain scenery you see just beyond the power station. Much of northern Cauca which lies close to Cali is currently under seige by the FARC, just read today´s El Pais. The Missouri Consevationist ounce said "you may have never seen a bobcat but if you´ve ever walked in Missouri´s national forests you can be sure that a bobcat has seen you."  Your village may seem like mellow jellow but don´t doubt for a minute that there are bad guys present. Not to worry though. They won´t care about a retired gringo. They´re too busy keeping their drug routes through Tolima and points south open.
 

[Micky]

My brother in law says that Putumayo,  Cauca,  Cali,  Buenaventura is a major drug route.
Micky

[no comment]

Peru had its runoff election today, June 5 and Ollanta Humala is the projected winner.   The presidential term is 5 years in Peru and Humala has nationalist and socialist leanings so much can happen in the next five years.  Something to consider when making the "Dream Plan".   
I wonder if we will see a more favorable exchange rate from the election results.  I would think so.

[utopiacowboy]

Peru had its runoff election today, June 5 and Ollanta Humala is the projected winner.   The presidential term is 5 years in Peru and Humala has nationalist and socialist leanings so much can happen in the next five years.  Something to consider when making the "Dream Plan".   
I wonder if we will see a more favorable exchange rate from the election results.  I would think so.

Ecuador and Bolivia are both run by Chavez buddies and now so will Peru. There really are not many stable places in South America suitable for expats. Chile and Uruguay are about the only options and Chile's cost structure is pretty much first world. That only leaves Uruguay. I just hope it remains under the radar for the next five years.

[Flyboy777]

What a fantastic thread.    One thing not mentioned here but is a player (at least for me) is the tax benefit received by being a non resident of the US.   I currently live in Dubai and for all American citizens with a resident visa or who have the bonafide resident status, you are exempt from the first $90,000 dollars of income to have to pay tax!     That rate goes up a little each year so for those who have some good investment income, living abroad/overseas can certainly have it's benefits in this regard.     


PS... I'm not an tax man but this directly affects me so I know it somewhat well. 


Flyboy777

[Alabamaboy!]

Peru had its runoff election today, June 5 and Ollanta Humala is the projected winner.   The presidential term is 5 years in Peru and Humala has nationalist and socialist leanings so much can happen in the next five years.  Something to consider when making the "Dream Plan".   
I wonder if we will see a more favorable exchange rate from the election results.  I would think so.

Lima stock exchange halted trading today after a huge drop in their market after the election of Humala over the weekend. I guess Peru will have some yard-sale like prices on property during the next 5 years.

[Alabamaboy!]

im sorta living my dream plan at the time and i'm just living in the states here...when i hit a time when i'm not working much anymore i don't know that i would move to s. america...from MY perspective i see more negatives than positives, UNLESS i was single...then of course there is EXCELLENT reason to live like andy & dennis and others are planning.
 
Fathertime!

I have spent a solid 10 days here at the condo in San Diego (Sports Arena area) and I am starting to believe the Dream Plan might just be here in good old SoCal! The weather is fantastic. There are tons of different restaurants. There are a lot of parks and free things to do. And the beaches are free too. Because the weather is so good there is no need for AC or Heat. There are so many things to do here you do not need to drive far. You can get cheap prescription medicines, dental work, etc. in Mexico. And now, because of the real estate meltdown, coupled with the deterioration of the value of the dollar, the prices for real estate are more or less affordable. I guess all that tax money is going to some good! Had a blast with the kids for 10 days without spending much.

[benjio]

BamaBoy, I'm truly jealous. I love San Diego...almost more than anywhere I've been in South America. I just absolutely, positively cannot afford to live comfortably there though, even if real estate cost have decreased. A dollar there just doesn't go as far as it does here in Houston. My uncle is in the Marines and he lives in Oceanside. I make it a point to visit him at least every couple of years just to spend some time in that paradise.

[fathertime]

I have spent a solid 10 days here at the condo in San Diego (Sports Arena area) and I am starting to believe the Dream Plan might just be here in good old SoCal! The weather is fantastic. There are tons of different restaurants. There are a lot of parks and free things to do. And the beaches are free too. Because the weather is so good there is no need for AC or Heat. There are so many things to do here you do not need to drive far. You can get cheap prescription medicines, dental work, etc. in Mexico. And now, because of the real estate meltdown, coupled with the deterioration of the value of the dollar, the prices for real estate are more or less affordable. I guess all that tax money is going to some good! Had a blast with the kids for 10 days without spending much.

Yoyo buddy!   Too bad we didn’t know you were in SD…we were just there 3 days ago…we could have caught some more waves and things….


Anywhoo…I  see more positives relaxing and semi-retiring here rather than in Colombia as a married man…when EVERYTHING is factored in, I don’t see the costs as being THAT much more being here…having to eat in more often is not really a bad thing, having to do your own housework is not that big a deal either, at least that is how I see it…of course I would like a fleet of servants waiting on me, but I am probably better overall without it! 


Fathertime!

[AndyLee]

when EVERYTHING is factored in, I don’t see the costs as being THAT much more being here…having to eat in more often is not really a bad thing, having to do your own housework is not that big a deal either, at least that is how I see it…of course I would like a fleet of servants waiting on me, but I am probably better overall without it! 


Fathertime!

I'm curious what housing costs in SoCal......I live in Estrato 4 with 4 bedrooms, 3 bathrooms and patios front and back, one car garage. I pay the equivalent of $240 US per month for house and all servicios; water, electric, natural gas, telephone, Internet. I have hot water in the showers but don't need heat or air conditioning. I know it's not easy to make a comparison, but just a seat of the pants guess what that would cost in SoCal per month?


My second curiousity question: I am 10 minute walk or $1 taxi ride from the supermarket. Inter-city buses to all the neighboring cities run on 1/2 hour intervals and will stop 3 blocks from my house if I ask. Typical bus trip to Armenia or Pereira from my home is about $5 each way. If I need a car and driver for a whole or half day Gustavo charges me $10 hour for him and his late model Toyota Corolla with a/c. My monthly budget for transportation is about $100 US. How would that compare to the cost of ownership of a late model Toyota Corolla in SoCal when you factor in gas, maintenance, bank payments and interest, insurance, garaging? Just a seat of the pants round number?


By the way, on June 3 I moved to a different pueblo, but I'm still living a better life on less money per year than I used to make in a month in the US.

[whitey]

Hey Andy - why did you move?  It looked like you had a very sweet setup in your former house.  Is this pueblo better?  Are you closer to your novia?

[AndyLee]

Hey Andy - why did you move?  It looked like you had a very sweet setup in your former house.  Is this pueblo better?  Are you closer to your novia?

Yep, I am now living in Roldanillo about 160km de Cali with my novia. Beats the heck out of a 2 hour moto ride every weekend to come visit. Now I can just scoot my butt over in the bed and there she is.
She has a Master's in Music and Dance and teaches here locally but she's applied for a transfer to a professorship at University of Quindio in Armenia so we're probably going to move to one of the pueblos near Armenia soon. We've chosen Armenia because she's finishing up her Master's in Language at U. of Quindio. We're looking at Filandia and La Taibeda for starters if anyone has any info on either of these, or other pueblos around Armenia.


BTW, Whitey, I had some other thoughts on your question earlier about Pereira o Manizales o Armenia. Pereira has Victoria and a couple other centros plus La Catorce, Carrefour, Exito and Home Depot. Armenia has a small Exito and a Flamingo but no LA 14 or Carrefour or Home Depot. On the other hand Armenia is 1/3 the size of Pereira and tends to be more user friendly and a little less expensive. I don't believe you can go wrong by choosing either Pereira or Armenia, but I would probably try to steer you away from Manizales because of the weather, it tends to be cool and cloudy a lot. I've heard complaints that you never see the sunrise or sunset or stars in the sky because of the fog and clouds all the time.

FWIW there is also direct Spirit Airlines flights to Armenia so you don't always have to route through Bogota. Typical direct flight Armenia to Fort Lauderdale round trip is just over $300 and 5 hours for each flight.  then of course you have to pay extra for carry on and checked bags so the actual total will be more like $400.
By comparison I did a trip from BWI to Bogota on Continental for $305 then Bogota to Armenia on Avianca for $140 for a total of $445 but that included two carry ons and two checked bags, but it took 12 hours flight time each way with layovers in Bogota and Atlanta.
Andy

[whitey]

Congrats Andy - sounds like you're very happy and things are going well for you and your novia.

Thanks for the additional info on Armenia-Pereira-Manizales too ...