Libya quadaffi and US involvement

[thekfc]

Ray, I agree with you 100% but logically I will have to side with FT.

With this military campaign which may result in killing Quaddafi & innocent people (collateral damage); the short term benefits would be getting rid of Quaddafi & his "cronies" but the long term effects are destabalizing the area,  creating more terrorist and live we may lose, plus the (unnecessary) $$$$$ & resources that will be spent/used. In the near future, we may not have to deal with the outcomes but our children & grandchildren will have to....we are passing this on to them.

Right now the "Allies" do not even know who the Libyan rebels / opposition are - so who are we helping? Who will run the country? Quaddafi #2?

The Libyan rebels in Benghazi said they have created a new national oil company to replace the corporation controlled by Quadaffi. 
There is no outcome yet/close to one nor indentification of who these rebels are but they have already created a new national oil company? Am I missing something here?
Fyi...Libya holds Africa’s largest oil reserve.

The French & British are the countries that have/will benefit more, have more interest & influence in North Africa and should be the ones spearheading this campaign - not us. The African Nation & Arab League should be there voicing & taking action as they are the ones who will be directed affected by the outcome.
If terrorist are to be created then let them direct their anger towards someone else for a change.

[jm21-2]

Well, we gave air support to the rebels but Quaddafi seems to be winning on the ground....unless we intervene on the ground it looks like he will probably win and he won't be on the best of terms with us....so chances are Washington will want to intervene on the ground to make sure he's not put back into power....which probably means a ground war and probably nation building. Yay.

[Researcher]

        That's true JM.What choice do we have. Just like KFC mentioned who will take over when all is said and done?Worse than Quaddifi 2 probably Osama Bin Laden 1. I think its time to rethink war.Instead of nation building how about we bomb them back into the Stone Age and take what we can to repay the costs, you know war.

       Researcher

[Ray]

Ray, I agree with you 100% but logically I will have to side with FT.

kfc, you’re making the same arguments that you already made, so I’ll repeat my previous response.

“I don't really care what happens to Libya in the long run. I just want to see Qaddafi's stinking corpse being dragged through the streets...

I say kill the A-Hole and get the hell out. Let the French deal with the other crap.”

There is nothing “logical” about FT’s arguments. The only logical thing here is the guidance system on the missile that flies up Qaddafi’s butt.   

Ray

[fathertime]

My impression is that doing these sort of offensive war acts is not even in the president’s power, WITHOUT the approval from congress…How is that all of a sudden one individual (king obozo) gets to decide if we are going to war?  My impression is that is expressly why congress has to approve us going into war…so one person can’t make that decision…this was no American emergency  I don’t feel represented at all here, my congressmen didn’t get to have a say in this like he was supposed to. 

This is a war we are in right?  I mean first obozo says bombs only to protect civilians,   now we find out that we have secret ops going on, men on the ground, the whole time, pretty soon we will be handing out weapons like candy at a christmas party…what a joke our leadership is, we are made to think that we are represented but actually we are not.  Kerry and peosi are working furiously to gain support for this war, while leaders like Rand Paul are against it….I continue to stand with Rand Paul on this one! When can we start the impeachment process?

Fathertime!

[Ray]

Hey F-Bozo-T,

I agree with most of that, but hey, Americans voted for the Messiah so we're stuck with his commie arse for 4 years.

Impeachment will NEVER work with a Democrap senate...

Ray

[fathertime]

Hey F-Bozo-T,

I agree with most of that, but hey, Americans voted for the Messiah so we're stuck with his commie arse for 4 years.

Impeachment will NEVER work with a Democrap senate...

Ray

Well Bozo, my entire staff is working feverishly to find another area where you and I can disagree.  I'll try to get something up soon.

i know we are stuck with obozo, it is appalling when you compare how against iraq he was and his criticism of bush and the reasoning used for the iraq war and now how he is using those exact same justifcations for the current libya war...the hypocrisy is nauseating. ditto for pelosi et al

Fathertime!

[Jeff S]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAyCdfOXvec&feature=player_embedded

[Bob_S]

This is a war we are in right?

Oh, no.  Demicacks don't start wars.  They start "Police Actions", "Humanitarian Interventions", and "Kinetic Military Actions".  Wars have to be approved by congress, you know.   

[Researcher]

       The scuttle butt is that Obama signed an authorization to send weapons to the rebels in Libya.


      Researcher

[Ray]

Well Bozo, my entire staff is working feverishly to find another area where you and I can disagree.  I'll try to get something up soon.

OK, I'll be waiting... 

Forgetting Obozo and all this other crap, are you opposed to us assasinating Qaddafi and dragging his stinking corpse through the street?

Raybozo

[thekfc]

‘Freelance jihadists’ join Libyan rebels?
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/mar/29/1000-freelance-jihadists-join-libyan-rebels/?page=1 

  Now, as the White House and NATO continue to debate the possible ramifications of arming the Libyan opposition, the Haqqani network-linked Afghan commander says Libyan al Qaeda affiliates seem to be more “enthusiastic” about the war against Gaddafi every day. And from what the Afghan Taliban commander has seen, there appears to be more than “flickers” of al Qaeda’s presence in Libya, the description given by NATO commander Admiral James Stavridis. According to the Afghan commander, al Qaeda fighters can’t believe their good luck that U.S. and NATO aircraft—the same forces that have dropped bombs on their heads in Afghanistan and Pakistan—are now raining down ordnance against Gaddafi.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-03-30/al-qaedas-libya-pilgrimage/full/#

[fathertime]

OK, I'll be waiting... 

Forgetting Obozo and all this other crap, are you opposed to us assasinating Qaddafi and dragging his stinking corpse through the street?

Raybozo

Hey RayBozo!

If all these recent events never happened I'd still be opposed to the USA outright assassinating quadaffi, as I would any other leader of a nation.  Circumstances like Hitler change things of course but I'm not confident anything of the sort was going on in Libya. 

Bozotime!

[fathertime]

 So I was listening to an eye witness account of some of what was going on in Libya.  The ‘Rebels’ are asking ‘Where are OUR airstikes’ while they fold their arms across their chest.  They are running from battle because we are not giving them their air strikes at 1million dollars a missile.
Another report is that the ‘Rebels’ are now SELLING the Libyan oil, and where is OUR reinbursement for the 100’s of millions spent thus far? 
Isn’t interesting that when a member of quadaffi’s forces is killed he is a soldier, but when a rebel is killed the media often reports it as another ‘civilian’death.  If they are armed rebels then I believe they are something other than civilians.   I’m convinced we are not getting an accurate story from our media.  Now that quadaffi is winning again, I have to question how much longer are we going to let this happen?  It looks like the current ‘rebel’ force consists of a few thousand men with various interests, certainly not representative of a full scale rebellion .  It seems apparent to me that there will be an invasion force in Libya within weeks to ‘protect civilians’ of course, it has nothing to do with interfering and forcing regime change upon a sovereign nation. 

Fathertime!

[Woody]

The problem with Libya is that instead of deciding to stay out or go full tilt, both reasonable options, we decided to half-ass it.

I said this in another forum when we were still mulling the decision to go in at all. My preference was that this is NOT a US problem, stay the hell out. This was our opportunity to let the world see the impotency of the UN and let them have all the responsibility for the cluster[snip] that this will turn into.

Since we decided to half-ass it, now the US will be to blame for what comes. The loss of US involvement has severely diminished the efficiency of the air support. The fact of the matter is, as well trained and equipped as the European Air Forces are, they don't have the whole package that the US has. The Command and Control assets, Intelligence assets, as well as the Fire Control resources that the US brings to the table completely change the game. According to the news, we are continuing to make our C2 assets available, but without the full weight of our Intel and Fire Controllers the European forces don't know where to strike effectively. Couple that with the lack of US jets to drop bombs anymore, and it is no wonder that the rebel forces are already complaining about a lack of US support after ONE day.

Unless something major happens(Like Egypt deciding to "help" the rebels and invading), this uprising is pretty well [snip]ed now. Not that it was in great shape to begin with. The easy thing to do would have been to drop a few bunkerbusters on Qaddafi's ass, and then any other [snip] that decided to seize power.

[Ray]

The easy thing to do would have been to drop a few bunkerbusters on Qaddafi's ass...

That would have been the smart thing to do.

The hell with the "rebels". That's all the Euroweenies' problem...

Ray

[Ray]

If all these recent events never happened I'd still be opposed to the USA outright assassinating quadaffi, as I would any other leader of a nation.  Circumstances like Hitler change things of course but I'm not confident anything of the sort was going on in Libya. 

Hey Bozotime,

Qaddafi ordered the killing of Americans...Twice!

If that isn't enough reason for you to kill his stinking ass, then you are a pussy. Meow!

Come on man, don’t be a wimp! Qaddafi needs to die…NOW!

How about that little prick in North Korea? You wouldn’t kill that little A-Hole either? I can’t believe it!

So how’s that little one of yours doing? Does he have more hair than you by now?   

Say hi to the wife on behalf of all the bozos at P-L...

Bozo, out!

 

[Woody]

How about that little prick in North Korea? You wouldn’t kill that little A-Hole either? I can’t believe it!

As much as I'de love to end Kimmy's little reign of terror, it won't happen by us. There are thousands of pieces of artillery pointed at Seoul. The city would be decimated if anything happened.

[Ray]

As much as I'de love to end Kimmy's little reign of terror, it won't happen by us. There are thousands of pieces of artillery pointed at Seoul. The city would be decimated if anything happened.

Not necessarily. We still have the big trump card…




 

[fathertime]

The problem with Libya is that instead of deciding to stay out or go full tilt, both reasonable options, we decided to half-ass it.

I said this in another forum when we were still mulling the decision to go in at all. My preference was that this is NOT a US problem, stay the hell out. This was our opportunity to let the world see the impotency of the UN and let them have all the responsibility for the cluster[snip] that this will turn into.

Since we decided to half-ass it, now the US will be to blame for what comes. The loss of US involvement has severely diminished the efficiency of the air support. The fact of the matter is, as well trained and equipped as the European Air Forces are, they don't have the whole package that the US has. The Command and Control assets, Intelligence assets, as well as the Fire Control resources that the US brings to the table completely change the game. According to the news, we are continuing to make our C2 assets available, but without the full weight of our Intel and Fire Controllers the European forces don't know where to strike effectively. Couple that with the lack of US jets to drop bombs anymore, and it is no wonder that the rebel forces are already complaining about a lack of US support after ONE day.

Unless something major happens(Like Egypt deciding to "help" the rebels and invading), this uprising is pretty well [snip]ed now. Not that it was in great shape to begin with. The easy thing to do would have been to drop a few bunkerbusters on Qaddafi's ass, and then any other [snip] that decided to seize power.

hey woody!
i like hearing your specific knowledge regarding the weapons/strategy!

Fathertime!

[fathertime]

Hey Bozotime,

 

How about that little prick in North Korea? You wouldn’t kill that little A-Hole either? I can’t believe it!

So how’s that little one of yours doing? Does he have more hair than you by now?   

Say hi to the wife on behalf of all the bozos at P-L...

Bozo, out!

 

Well Bozo  It is funny that you brought up N. Korea because that was precisely what I was thinking about when I wrote my response.  Last year kim jong ill was accused of sponsoring some terror against S. Korea.  If that leader kim jong pill was killed by a S. Korean missile in retaliation, all hell would break loose and who knows how many would be killed, it could even be in the millions and I don’t want the nuclear fallout floating over here and getting in my nightly milk and cookies while I dance like around like a twinkletoes pantywaist.   

My baby boy is in a very cute stage right now, he will probably never look more like me than he does at this time.  Soon his hair will be all grown in and mine is still in a full scale retreat, so by this time next year I probably won’t hear so many ‘he looks just like you’s’ but that is obviously good for him! I tell you, my wife and I just can't get enough of him and his little chubby face.

Fathertime!

[Capstone]

Not necessarily. We still have the big trump card…

The problem is that Kim now holds several of those same trump cards himself and is actually crazy enough to use them given all his past crazy transgressions.

[fathertime]

So it looks like the USA caved in and is restarting the airstikes again, at a million dollars a shot!  Ridiculous!! 

Fathertime!

[fathertime]

I just viewed a couple  short videos.  I am loving that people are finally coming around to the same point of view on this matter.  Our leadership is full of corrupt liars and the majority of Americans don't have to energy/desire to see what is really going on here.  I implore you all to view these short videos that were on both Fox and CNN... It isn't Quadaffi's internal circle that is cracking, it is OUR internal circle that is shattering!  I welcome alternate points of view or agreement. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fbd8WgfjAos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDVt_hSo_EU

Fathertime!

[piglett]

Not necessarily. We still have the big trump card…




 

WOW pretty colors, maybe we should see if our "friends" in the middle east find these colors pleasing too