Libya quadaffi and US involvement

[fathertime]

 

I know that I don’t have a 100% grasp on the whole fall of quadaffi issue, but I’m going to write what I think at this point, and am curious to see what others have to say on the subject.

My feeling is that the USA should stay away from Libya’s internal problems.  It is not our business how quadaffi is ruling his country or how he is fighting to hold onto his leadership.  It seems apparent to me that he does have some support and maybe a lot more than the western media would like to report.  I know they had large demonstrations in Libya but not all 6.5 million people turned out for these, there were probably a certain % of citizens that are silently ok with his leadership, just like when the ultra left fairies take to the streets here, most of the conservative leaning are at home rolling our eyes.  This might be different in Libya, but perhaps you see my point.  

I don’t like the idea that there is talk of setting up a ‘no fly zone’…who is the international community to tell libya’s current leadership that they can’t fly over their own country?  Nothing is going to come out of the UN because it so happens that Russia and China are respecting Libya’s sovereignty and surprisingly I agree with them on this issue. Besides, who is to say what would wind up coming from new leadership, it could easily be a more radical govt.  
I don’t think we should be sacrificing American lives and entangling ourselves in a civil war that will likely carry on for years in one form or another.  We already are running trillions of dollars of debt each year.  Financially we are in no position to consider another military engagement, unless of course we get to keep all their oil as repayment!  Why is that the USA is always called upon to do the fighting when most of the European countries are perfectly capable of doing this themselves if they feel so strongly about it. IF we get involved we will wind up more hated than ever.  Finally, we have massive problems developing here, so I think Obama should just STFU with his stupid proclamations like ‘quadaffi must go’ or how quadaffi forces ‘will be held accountable’ Accountable for what? For fighting for their side in a budding civil war?  The Libyan people should sort out their own mess. We can’t go insisting and imposing our capitalism and democracy on all the peoples of the world.

I don’t really want to hear about women and children getting massacred in large numbers. If we start seeing evidence of wholescale massacres then my opinion will change but for now that is where I stand.
I welcome different opinions as I expect there will be a few!


Fathertime!

[Researcher]

     I heard on the news that a no fly zone would have to include ground troops as well.

    We should keep out of other countries as long as they are no immediate threat to us. It's time to stop being the world's police force and let other countries handle their own business. We always get caught up in nation building as well, without anything being given back to the taxpayers of this country who paid for it.


    Researcher

[ignorante]

This is the guy who committed the second largest terrorist act against Americans, ever.  I say take him out.  Even if a relatively unfriendly regime takes over, it cannot possibly be worse.

[Researcher]

This is the guy who committed the second largest terrorist act against Americans, ever.  I say take him out.  Even if a relatively unfriendly regime takes over, it cannot possibly be worse.

     As long as we don't engage in nation building but it looks like his own people are going to get rid of him. We don't need another Iraq.


     Researcher

[william3rd]

     I heard on the news that a no fly zone would have to include ground troops as well.

    We should keep out of other countries as long as they are no immediate threat to us. It's time to stop being the world's police force and let other countries handle their own business. We always get caught up in nation building as well, without anything being given back to the taxpayers of this country who paid for it.


    Researcher

A no-fly zone means ensuring the safety of pilots and crews by degrading the air defenses. So we will fire the first shot against a sovereign nation? You can't use the Pan Am incident of years ago as a provocation for several reasons. As a side-note, WHO is going to pay for this latest foray? You? Me? Again? If we hadnt pissed away our resources over the last ten years, then maybe. The British and French are calling for it. THey should provide the materiele to accomplish it.

[Jedironin]

I completely agree that the US should NOT get involved with this! The Middle East is obviously going through it's own "sea change", and I feel they need to sort this out for themselves. I truly hope that the "silent majorities" win out over the (seemingly) ever-increasing influence of the more radical Muslims, but I don't think that is for us to try to decide for them.

Appealing to the UN for support is an absolute joke. Kosovo ring a bell for anyone? I don't think the UN has "improved" at all since that time, so I don't expect them to be any more "effective" now than they were then.

For what it's worth, I DO feel that "Daffy Quaddafi" is about as mentally stable as Charlie Sheen, but without the benefit of the Tiger's Blood.     Quaddafi's "female companions" are certainly more formidable than Charlie's, though... 

[Ray]

    

[Jedironin]

^  "In the news today, Iran's state-run television news reported that there was a "minor incident" at the Natanz Nuclear Laboratory today..." 

"In other news, seismologists are at a loss to explain large tremors felt in parts of the Middle East today. Data recorded from various sensors seem to indicate the epicenter as being somewhere in central Iran..."

[Dave H]

There's something that has been bugging me for a long time...

[Jedironin]

I... ummm... well...      

Dang... you may be onto something there.   

[Jeff S]

I know how to tell them apart. One has only one black magic woman, the other has a whole bunch.

[thekfc]

March 19th, 2003 On March 19, 2003, a coalition forces begun "striking selected targets of military importance to undermine Saddam Hussein's ability to wage war".

March 19th, 2011, a coalition of American and European forces bombed Libyan targets by air and sea Saturday in the first phase of a military campaign to drive Moammar Gadhafi from power.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42164455/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa/?gt1=43001

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_us_libya

[Jedironin]

"All this has happened before. And will happen again." 

[utopiacowboy]

I bet their Muslim is still running Libya long after our Muslim is gone from Washington, DC.

[Jedironin]

A good point was brought up on the news this morning (believe it or not!)... Gaddafi fought back with terror attacks the last time we bombed him. What is he going to do this time if he is allowed to live through this?

Not a pleasant thought.

The other point raised was this- what will be the implications for the US with other Mid-East/African countries since we attacked Gaddafi, but have not "helped" with the uprisings in other countries?

[Researcher]

    Hey Jedi, with waffling Obama in office I don't see the US getting too involved.


      Researcher

[Ray]

A good point was brought up on the news this morning (believe it or not!)... Gaddafi fought back with terror attacks the last time we bombed him. What is he going to do this time if he is allowed to live through this?

 

A good point??

Did they happen to also mention WHY we bombed his stinking ass?

We bombed him because he was directly involved in a terrorist attack in Germany that killed Americans. Our big mistake was not killing the A-HOLE.

The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist.

Ray

[Jedironin]

Down Ray... take a breath. 

I say it's a "good point", because the last time we bombed him, we let him live. Then came the Pan Am bombing (among others). If he survives this time around, what more will the world have to expect in return?

Got it? 

[thekfc]

U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Sunday that the U.S. expects to turn control of the Libya military mission over to a coalition — probably headed either by the French and British or by NATO — "in a matter of days."
Ummm.......Didn't they already said that it was a coalition - including France & Britain.  

Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staffs, described the campaign's aims as "limited, saying it "isn't about seeing him (Gadhafi) go."   

Gadahfi is not a target of the campaign 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110320/ap_on_re_us/us_us_libya_gates

How many millions $$ have the already been spent?
The first wave alone cost the USA about $64 million.

[fathertime]

How many millions $$ have the already been spent?
The first wave alone cost the USA about $64 million.

I've read that each tomahawk missile costs around 1.5 million which if true means in missiles alone we are in 150 million for the first 24 hours of the new war...Where is this money coming from and why exactly are WE the ones paying for all this?  We are a nation 14.24 trillion dollars in debt, the Muslim nations are beating us  in part because they are helping to bankrupt us.

Quadaffi had an uprising in his country that he has been leading and building for over 40 years, he squashed it just like dictators almost always try to do.  Why is it OUR business to involve ourselves in this sovereign country?  I'm convinced that we are going to do more harm to our reputation and possibly lose American lives because of our involvement.  In addition, each time we do this sort of thing we risk a larger war involving other large countries. These Libyans gotta take care of their own rebellion, like we did here 235 years ago.

That is my opinion, I welcome other points of view.

Fathertime!

[Ray]

Down Ray... take a breath. 

I say it's a "good point", because the last time we bombed him, we let him live. Then came the Pan Am bombing (among others). If he survives this time around, what more will the world have to expect in return?

Got it? 

And I say it's a "dumb point".

Would you have us leave the a-hole alone out of fear of what he might do to us in return??   

If you are afraid of retaliation by Qaddafi or any other terrorist, just don't fly anywhere because he might blow up your plane.   

Ray

[Jedironin]

Ray... you're so far off the point I was trying to make, it's just not worth the effort trying to explain.

[Ray]

I've read that each tomahawk missile costs around 1.5 million which if true means in missiles alone we are in 150 million for the first 24 hours of the new war...Where is this money coming from…?

 

Well, that $420 million we will save by cutting off taxpayer funding of the leftists at NPR/PBS will pay for a lot more missiles… LOL!

I'm convinced that we are going to do more harm to our reputation… because of our involvement.

FT, now you are starting to sound like Obozo and the rest of his leftist ilk. Do you really give a rat’s ass about our “reputation”??

Our friends will still like us and the idiots who hate us will still hate us no matter what we do, so being concerned over what some commie/terrorist/jihadist-loving morons think of us should be of zero concern…

Ray

[Ray]

Ray... you're so far off the point I was trying to make, it's just not worth the effort trying to explain.

Oh I got your point loud and clear… A terrorist dictator killed Americans in a terrorist attack and we were stupid for bombing him in retaliation because he in turn retaliated by killing more innocent Americans and now we should cower in fear of what he might do next if we piss him off.

Well, I strongly disagree, and think we should send in a team of SEALs to smoke that little prick Qaddafi and drag his stinking corpse through the street as a message to any and all other terrorist a-holes out there.

Now that’s my opinion.   

Ray

[Researcher]

    Alot has changed since the Pan Am flight. I think terrorists should be afraid of what the US will do if there are more attacks. They mess with us and we might put another Bush in the White House!


   Researcher