My Side of The Story.

[z_k_g]

Researcher,

Great story.  And I know it hurt.

When you have that type of emotional investment in a relationship, its very difficult to end it, walk away and start over.  The hurt, memories and pain linger and you can't get that numbness out of your mind.

You were fortunate.  The first marriage gave you the mental toughness to make the right decision and you dodged a major bullet.

I wasn't so fortunate.  I spent 10 years in a bad situation because I had "so much invested".  I learned; It will never happen again.  But I can only say that because I have the scars from the last episode, and they run pretty deep.

One of the hardest things for men, humans and even animals to do is change habits.  A deeply rooted habit is something our brains lock on and won't let go.  It an addiction of sorts and it becomes a key element in our complex emotional puzzle and self image.  Consequently, its very very difficult just to pull out that critical piece, end that relationship and stop the addiction.  So we just stay in the relationship, unhappy, unfulfilled kinda waiting for the inevitable to happen.

Relationships are tough.  Most of us fail and suffer the eventual consequences when we stay in a bad situation.  But, I really don't think its something that we can get right the first time, you just don't know when its over because you haven't traveled that road before.  I think a failing and unhealthy relationship is a life-lesson that you must experience to appreciate.  You can sympathize with a guy and feel sorry for him but you cannot empathize and understand his dilemma unless you have been there yourself and suffered through a similar train wreck.

But...In the end we learn and that's a good thing (maybe)

No matter how tough you think you are, its never easy to "do the right thing", it always hurts.  But after you've experienced the train wreck once, you know what you gotta do; if you're smart.

I think the key is doing your homework early on in the relationship, set high standards and requirements and enforce them.  If the woman doesn't meet your standards, move on! Ask a lot of questions.  Get to know her friends and family (most importantly ask "the right questions") watch what she does not listen to what she says.  When you see red flags, sort them out immediately, don't wait thinking things will "get better", they never do.  Where there is one red flag there are usually many more in hiding.

I really don't think that Researcher's experience was specific to the PI, as other posters have noted, that situation could happen anywhere with any woman.  So you must be diligent no matter where we choose to look for our next significant other.

It takes a lot of inner strength to walk away, it hurts awfully bad and its never easy.

One thing is for sure; staying, hurts more ($$$$)!

Zulu

[thekfc]

This post is for the newbies & others who are starting out / progressing:

Situation 1:
She began asking for an "allowance" of $100 per week.
~I was saving up for our wedding so I explained that to her and declined the idea. She wasn't too happy with it but she seemed to get over it.~

It doesn't matter if you are a millionaire, how much money you make or if it is a request for $5 or $10 per week. This should have been initiated by you (not her) & discussed in details (especially when she did brought it up). Any request for money should have been resolved, stopped, or squashed at this stage.
Plus she should have been told that any/all further unnecessary request would not be tolerated....period.

Situation 2:
She started asking for money to buy clothes and other things - name brand stuff.
~Again, I explained that we needed to save for our wedding and starting a life here in the US.~

That is a WTF moment.
In my view, that is a major red flag right there.

There should have been no further explanation about needing to save.
The OP should have put an end to ALL unnecessary monetary request right then - especially if it wasn't done at the situation 1 stage.

Also, the "western" brands are coveted in Asia. If she want name brand stuff, she get it in the USA where it is cheaper, have better & wider selection - not there.

Situation 3:
Ask for money to help her mother start a small business - $6000.
~I don't have a problem with helping anyone but I felt that since we had the visa pending, a wedding to plan, and other things, this issue would be better decided on after we were married. ~

An issue like this should NOT be discussed after the wedding  - it should be discussed before.

Situation 4:
She needed the money for her Mom's business as well as money to buy the clothes and jewelry she wanted before or she wouldn't come to the US.

This should have never gotten to this stage. If an ultimatum had to be given - it should had been the op giving it after situation 2.

The OP had time, money and effort "invested" in this process and he wanted to see things work out but at the same time he also "helped" the situation to "deteriorate" to this point by not putting an end to it early, by deciding to discuss certain issues after the wedding and "waiting" to see how things progress.

You have to "sit her down" and discuss things. What should be tolerated & shouldn't, what is expected, guidelines, rules & what the consequences are.
You must lead the process & situation and should not let her take the lead (which is what that woman did).

No matter where we are or look in this world, things like that can & do happen.
Learn to recognize the "issues aka warning signs" for when & if they comes up, take note of the situations, learn from them, know how to handle them when, taking control and do not leave things "to discuss later". You have to resolve it as it occurs / put a stop to it - you cannot let it progress because if you do,  the "demand & request" will just grow.

[thekfc]

No offense to the op, I am just pointing out things for "newbies & future newbies" to be aware of  - especially if they happen and when/how to handle them.

[robert angel]

Researcher,

That was an excellent explaining of what went down back then. Not that you were obligated TO tell, but I think for those who read it and take it to heart, even if it's a few, you did a fine service. Well told. Going from not working to $100 a month--err WEEK!! 'allowance' in the Philippines, a land where they guesstimate 30 million make less than a dollar a day, is extreme. Her other demands--'ultimatum' were just unacceptable and we both know it would've only gotten worse if you obliged.

I was getting pretty close to getting married once, but that girl tried to show her ass several times, explaining later that she was 'testing me' to see if I was able to take that kind of thing (sounds sort of what a member here is doing to a certain extent)--ostensibly testing me to see if we got married, if I could stay that sort of course. I'm not a big fan of 'have the big fight, make up, have great sex afterwards' kind of mindset--heck, I don't care for arguing or undue drama period and I bailed out on her. I will take the great sex part, however.

She kept pursuing me, calling me at work, sending gifts, etc. It was embarrassing. Almost ten years later, she still leaves occasional messages, wishing me 'happy' this and that, and we're on friendly, albeit minimalist communication terms. I even forgot this year to return her 'Happy New Year message'.

That gal married a very wealthy Englishman, getting married in the Philippines,(big mistake for her) and the guy lived with her on Cebu, showered her with gifts of gold and other precious jewelery, took care of her, as well as her father and her son--a son who was  sired from another man many years before. THEN he up and moved back to England, without any explanation, leaving her and her son destitute.

She asked me to pay her way to Dubai for a job, but even if I wasn't already married by then, I wouldn't have gone there, although I felt bad for her. She can't begin to afford the absurdly expensive annulment, even if she could and had to wait the seven years of never seeing the bastard to 'maybe' qualify for an annulment. What a brutal system.

To spend time with me, my wife resigned her job with Coca Cola, where she had interned as an engineer and then was hired on full time, to really get to know me, and me her and her family, friends, etc.. They weren't about to let a fairly new employee, who was working six days a week, 12 hours a day and half a day Sundays during inventory, just have a month or so off. So I felt obligated to make up for the income she forsaked for me. She gave up what is for most, believe it or not--a dream job--working towards being a 'regular' with a huge company.

Initially she (actually 'we') decided on what turned out to be a ridiculously low amount of support, but it pretty much increased almost every month, as needs for immigration purposes, pictures, documents and other immigration expenses, including trips to Cebu and Manila, came up. Plus I wanted her to have some spending money to not only buy clothes, get eye glasses and such, but to also be able to do (for her) very unusual things, like take her family out to a movie, buy a couple chickens, a kilo or two of fresh tuna here and there, purchase some small 'going away gifts' for family, etc.

Anyway--again--excellent explanation of the situation you had put upon you--can't blame you a bit, but it sure does suck when you've invested the time, monetary and emotional capital you must have put forth, only to realize it's not going to be nearly as dreamy as we envisioned.

[Henry]

Researcher, all I can say is... THANK GOD she revealed what kind of person she is before you married her (and before she landed), and THANK GOD that you had the willpower to say NO to a woman like that (something that I probably would have failed at 5 years ago).

[Researcher]

      I agree KFC, plans like that should be discussed before getting married. What she couldn't see was that I had no problem with helping her mother and was interested in helping start a business. What she didn't like was that I wouldn't do it before she came to the US which makes me wonder if she had any intention of coming here at all. It was almost like she had changed her mind about marriage and was trying to get all she could out of me before she ended it. I have no proof of that but it was my gut feeling.

     Researcher

[euforia51]

I have no proof of that but it was my gut feeling.

Some times ... no ... many times ... this is the only proof you need.

[thekfc]

This thread can be good learning experience for the newbies.

We have all talked about certain situations but have seldom gone into great details.  Currently, we have an example of one of these situations. Now is a perfect time to share your knowledge/experience/thoughts, time to instruct & teach - what to look for, how to avoid them & how to resolve them. I have already started the ball rolling.

[Researcher]

         That's true Euforia, but there is one thing I have learned. The closer it comes to time for the woman to leave her country, the more nervous they seem to get. After all the romance and visa paperwork is done it seems to start to dawn on them that they are actually going to leave their family and country to start a new life. At this point, if they go through with it they either really love you or they really want to get the hell out of their country. Either way it is a real moment of truth for them. Two words of advice: Be supportive.

      Researcher

[JimD]

What she couldn't see was that I had no problem with helping her mother and was interested in helping start a business. What she didn't like was that I wouldn't do it before she came to the US which makes me wonder if she had any intention of coming here at all. It was almost like she had changed her mind about marriage and was trying to get all she could out of me before she ended it. I have no proof of that but it was my gut feeling.

You buy a buisness for the mom...yeah right! Can you imagine one of these girls trying to foist this kind of crapola on a Colombian???

[Researcher]

       Jim, she is a filipina but I get your point.

      Researcher

[flash]

Great story. It's should be required reading before you get a PL password. We all need to remember that "NO" hasn't been removed from the dictionary. Not to get biblical, but Adam and Eve did their job and procreated, so there's a lot of fish in the sea.

[flash]

Not to be too rough, but I try not to move a woman too far from the curb for a good while. Lest she fall off, the drop isn't too painful. I've been hurt before, and I'm a bit older and wiser now, with a bit more at stake, and concern about what I could lose.

[Researcher]

Situation 3:
Ask for money to help her mother start a small business - $6000.
~I don't have a problem with helping anyone but I felt that since we had the visa pending, a wedding to plan, and other things, this issue would be better decided on after we were married.

The OP had time, money and effort "invested" in this process and he wanted to see things work out but at the same time he also "helped" the situation to "deteriorate" to this point by not putting an end to it early, by deciding to discuss certain issues after the wedding and "waiting" to see how things progress.

You have to "sit her down" and discuss things. What should be tolerated & shouldn't, what is expected, guidelines, rules & what the consequences are.
You must lead the process & situation and should not let her take the lead (which is what that woman did).

No matter where we are or look in this world, things like that can & do happen.
Learn to recognize the "issues aka warning signs" for when & if they comes up, take note of the situations, learn from them, know how to handle them when, taking control and do not leave things "to discuss later". You have to resolve it as it occurs / put a stop to it - you cannot let it progress because if you do,  the "demand & request" will just grow.

       Hey KFC, when I said that I told her no, I did "sit her down" and explain things.All she did was wait for an opportunity to try and extort what she wanted out of me. If you think you can tell a woman, any woman, how "it is" and she will automatically follow; you have alot to learn my friend.I don't mean to bust your chops but things aren't always so simple. Sometimes you have to roll with the punches along with rolling the dice. Believe me, I explained things to her several times, she just wasn't going to go along with it.

       Researcher  

[euforia51]

       Hey KFC, when I said that I told her no, I did "sit her down" and explain things.All she did was wait for an opportunity to try and extort what she wanted out of me. If you think you can tell a woman, any woman, how "it is" and she will automatically follow you have alot to learn my friend. I don't mean to bust your chops but things aren't always so simple. Sometimes you have to roll with the punches along with rolling the dice. Believe me, I explained things to her several times, she just wasn't going to go along with it.

Someone said earlier this story, and it's follow ups from Researcher should be required reading. There is so much wisdom here for newbies and everyone, really.
Point in bold ... I agree you're asking for it if you think you're going to sit a woman down and tell her how it's going to be. Because rest assured, take this approach and she will show you one way or another, sooner or later.
Next point in bold ... another clue I just noticed ... how many times do you think you needed to explain your points and reasons in order for you to realize she just wasn't going to go along? I guess only the person in the relationship can really answer that.

[Researcher]

     So true Euforia. Oh how many times I have seenguys who thought they had everything under control with their woman only to find out that she had several credit cards in the guy's name and they were all maxed out. The best thing you can do is let a woman be herself. Then decide if she is the one for you. You may be the leader in a relationship but only if the woman allows it.


       Researcher

[z_k_g]

     So true Euforia. Oh how many times I have seenguys who thought they had everything under control with their woman only to find out that she had several credit cards in the guy's name and they were all maxed out. The best thing you can do is let a woman be herself. Then decide if she is the one for you. You may be the leader in a relationship but only if the woman allows it.


       Researcher

Researcher,

I think this is a key point and very critical in understanding the man/woman, leader/team dynamic.

First of all, Leadership is earned by you and granted by your woman , NOT taken by you and dictated to the other person.

When you submit (are submissive) to someones leadership or direction you make that decision based on that person, in the case on a relationship- the man, demonstrating that he is WORTHY of leadership.  

This is a very very GOOD thing.  

Nature has shown us that a man leads in the relationship and the woman submits to his leadership (is submissive).  There is NO FLIP SIDE to this construct.  

If the man is not worthy of leadership in the family unit, the woman's obligation and her responsibility  (even with children and other monetary concerns involved) is to leave and find a man she can submit too.  A man not worthy of leadership deserves to lose his woman and family, in my opinion.

Also, a woman who has entered into a marriage and is not properly submissive should be abandoned by her husband.  Her inability to submit is a very destructive and unnatural circumstance (feminism).  She should be alone and NEVER married.  Her children, should remain with the man, and his responsibility is to find a proper submissive wife to care for him and the children.

Secondly, all women, children, animals etc. must have some type of leadership.   Humans seek and need proper leadership as much as we seek and need food, water and shelter.  Its the natural order of things in the family unit that the male leads and the female and children submits and follows.  

The alternative is chaos and a dysfunctional society (the United States).

Finally, as we see so well everyday, when gender roles are switched and both partners are "equal" societies collapse. (the failure of the American feminist society) Imagine the Armed services where everyone is "equal".  Who leads?  Who is the decider?  This neutrality creates a chaotic, confusing and ultimately a weakened situation where the enemy (social pressures, drugs) will take advantage and attack and defeat your family unit.  

The military works because of clearly defined roles of leadership and responsibility.  Successful families operate in the exact same manner.  Its not a dictatorship, its leadership.  Soldiers submit and "allow" themselves to be led in the battle because they have put 100% trust in the leadership of their general, captains, and squad leaders and a good wife does the exact same thing.  

Any successful battle plans rely on everyone involved obeying orders to the letter; insubordination in battle will get you shot.  

Similarly, a disloyal, disrespectful and disobedient wife should be released immediately.  A man CANNOT have a successful family when his woman is not properly submissive.

Just my opinion.

Zulu

[Researcher]

        Well Zulu, I'm not going to get into the fact that you put women and children in the same category as animals! ....hehehe.... I get what you meant, just joking

     But seriously I understand what you are talking about. One of the biggest reasons I ended it with my ex was that she showed no respect for what I wanted.The truth shall set you free and when I found out the truth.... I set her free. You'll get no argument from me as far as the man being the leader but as you said he should be worthy of leading.In the real world some men aren't worthy of leading and some women aren't going to follow no matter what. The US has a bunch of those!


        Researcher

[thekfc]

Hey KFC, when I said that I told her no, I did "sit her down" and explain things.All she did was wait for an opportunity to try and extort what she wanted out of me. If you think you can tell a woman, any woman, how "it is" and she will automatically follow; you have alot to learn my friend.I don't mean to bust your chops but things aren't always so simple. Sometimes you have to roll with the punches along with rolling the dice. Believe me,

Yes things are not so simple...but there is something called Trust, Respect, Confidence, Acceptance, Accountability, Leadership, etc,....and they go both ways.

I explained things to her several times, she just wasn't going to go along with it.

Red flag -like you said, she is showing no respect for what you want...time to move on.

Someone said earlier this story, and it's follow ups from Researcher should be required reading. There is so much wisdom here for newbies and everyone, really.

Ageied, like I said before, this thread can be good learning experience for the newbies.

I agree you're asking for it if you think you're going to sit a woman down and tell her how it's going to be. Because rest assured, take this approach and she will show you one way or another, sooner or later.

Are you putting women from all different cultures in the same boat? or is this based on your experience with AW? LA? Asian?

how many times do you think you needed to explain your points and reasons in order for you to realize she just wasn't going to go along?

Another Red flag....time to say bye & move on.

[euforia51]

Quote from: euforia51 on Today at 12:16:08 AM
I agree you're asking for it if you think you're going to sit a woman down and tell her how it's going to be. Because rest assured, take this approach and she will show you one way or another, sooner or later.

Are you putting women from all different cultures in the same boat? or is this based on your experience with AW? LA? Asian?

KFC, it's not my intention to haphazardly come across as lumping all women of different cultures in the same boat. My statement is based on a combination of experiences with AWs and also things I've read over the years. Just to be clear, this is my first serious relationship with a foreign woman ... and yes, I have a lot to learn. And while I am very aware that there are cultural differences, I am still of the basic belief that humans are humans no matter where we're from. And basic core behaviors are identical once they are stripped to their simplest form. Hence for example ... we will eat to survive ... how we go about getting our food is another matter which is based on our environment (cultural differences). Perhaps this is not a great example but it's as simple as I can put it to give you an idea. Apply this to the women in Researcher's story and also Bill's ladyboy story ... what do these have in common? despite being thousands of miles apart A ploy for money ... a need to eat ... or ____________.

EDIT:
Momentary lapse ... incorrectly associated Researcher's story with a Colombiana because he's married to one. In both stories I refer to, the women are Phillipinas ... and therefore do not take place thousands of miles apart. Sorry!

[Gato4Astrid]

Anyway, guys, let's assume that someone else was in Researcher's soes and the plans go ahead ............ and if she wants 'him' to give her mother $6,000 in order to start business, always ask for business plan.

GOLDEN RULES TO REMEMBER:  If you fail to plan, you plan to fail

If she does not have a business plan, it means many things, including not doing their homework, lack marketing research. 

You do not want to give out $6,000 only yo discover that business will fail..........

[Researcher]

Yes things are not so simple...but there is something called Trust, Respect, Confidence, Acceptance, Accountability, Leadership, etc,....and they go both ways.

       Agreed kfc and if they don't go both ways its time to move on.


       Researcher