Changing habits or giving up hobbies/activities

[jm21-2]

So boat ownership has repeatedly been a source of arguments between my fiance and I. It started out as an annoying and incomprehensible hobby to her. Then I would be out of cell phone range now and then visiting remote islands for a day or two and she hated that, so hated boats more. Then replacing an outboard was kind of expensive and didn't really sit well with her. Then she found out how expensive moorage was and that was basically it. Get rid of the current boat and get a cheap boat with no moorage and low maintenance (yeah, that's common) if absolutely necessary but she won't come out with me. So finally I put the boat up for sale.

Now, to me this isn't an ordinary hobby. It's really more of a dream. I loved sailing when I was growing up (big family activity, one month a year or more) and I specifically moved up to where I'm living because of the boating. I had always dreamed of sailing the islands with my girlfriend/wife/family but she has come to dislike boats so much that's probably not possible, and any low maintenance boat that fits on a trailer is not going to be comfortable enough for her.

I didn't have much money starting out but got a good deal on a boat that was about to be auctioned off (late moorage payments) and now it sits at a dock almost within sight of my deck. Got a good deal on a nice big slip too. I fixed some things and made some upgrades with help from my parents and it's basically just what I wanted right now. The motor has about 40 hours on it, cushions are almost new, holding tank's only been emptied out once....the boat is in peak shape. But it's old so all that stuff I did barely adds to the value.

Trailer sailers, which are basically the only boat that match her description, are too much of a PITA for me to want to take one out on the weekends and she wouldn't go on a 9-day trip with me. I don't really want to go alone for 9 days. Also, my driveway's difficult for a truck and trailer (very narrow with bulkheads on the side) and extremely limited parking.

My current view is hey what the hell. Maybe borrow my parent's boat now and then when the aren't using it for a few weekends a year by myself just to keep it in my life. But I feel like I'm giving up a lot, giving up on a dream, and that is something that she can't understand at all. To her it's just a huge waste of money and she thinks it's absolutely ridiculous. If I try to explain that it's something really important to me she just thinks I'm being selfish and gets frustrated with me. Probably true I'm being a bit selfish.

So, am I giving up too much? Or is this basically par for the course? Everyone in my family thinks I'm nuts but they're all boaters.

[Jeff S]

So, am I giving up too much?

Yes.

Marital bliss isn't like being half of a Siamese twin, connected at the hip. You have your things, she has hers, and you have yours together. I'm looking at this from being married for a while though. I still hunt, fish, and disappear out to sea for days at a time, and my wife is fine with it.

Anyway, if it is important to you (it sounds like it) and she is pressuring you to change - that is a red flag right there. That was always my disagreement with AW - they look at you as some kind of defective person who it is their job to perfect - a project to be molded into their image of what they want rather than taking you as you are. That's a scary prospect. There's an old saying that men marry women hoping they don't change and women marry men hoping they change. Both are wrong.

[braziliangirl]

I think you are giving up too much and not being selfish at all. Isn't love about understanding?

It reminds me of that Jeep viral: http://jalopnik.com/5733319/how-an-old-jeep-sparked-a-viral-manifesto-on-relationships.

I agree with Jeff and see a big red flag there.

[jm21-2]

Not so much that she's forcing me to quit, just that she's extremely frugal and wants me to do it on a budget, so that we can save more money (which I'm fine with). But it's something that really can't be done well on a limited budget. Probably $2.5k/year at the minimum.

Now that's relatively cheap vacation time if a couple or family is going together, or a single person going off by themselves. Let's say you go on 2 9-day trips and 8 other weekends throughout the year, which is pretty reasonable imho. That's 34 days of vacation for $2,500. That's really cheap, especially for couples and families. $73/day for singles, $36/day per person for couples, and $18 per person per day for a family of four.

Now for a married guy whose wife doesn't want to go sailing, and he doesn't want to be away for more than a few days at a time, and not too many times a year, it's extremely expensive. I'd probably go out maybe 5 weekends a year. That's $250 per day. To a frugal Taiwanese person, and really to myself, that's insane.

So it's not really that she wants me to change, she's fine with me sailing, it's just ridiculously unpractical from a financial perspective since she doesn't want to go.

[Jedironin]

I also think she should be more willing to learn more about boating, because it does seem to be a passion of yours, not just a hobby. "Ideally" she should be willing to at least give it a fair chance before saying "NO" to the whole thing. She should be able to go out on the boat for a couple hours, then an overnight, then maybe 2 or 3 days. If she doesn't like it after that, at least she gave it a fair try and should have a better understanding of why it's important to YOU.

As Jeff said- after that, it may be one of the things she should let you enjoy, while she has her own things that she enjoys.

I can also say, though, that my Mom gave up the goal of owning a horse because our family couldn't afford one while us 2 kids were around. After we moved out, and then my Dad passed away, now she has gotten back into the "horse hobby" and owns 2. (Nice trail horses, not overly expensive.)  

Would she be okay with you playing golf? Now add up the costs of a good set of clubs, greens fees, etc... It may not be that much different. As my Mom says, "It's not how rich you are, it's what you choose to spend your money on."

I believe that if I had a wife and family, I wouldn't be doing half the things I do now with my "car hobby", but I'd still have the used Miata for a "fun car". It's hard to just sit back and think about how much give-and-take there will be, all relationships are a little different. I guess it's up to you two to be able to discuss and plan how things will work out. It sounds like she's not "discussing", though, just "demanding".  

[piglett]

I think you are giving up too much and not being selfish at all. Isn't love about understanding?
It reminds me of that Jeep viral: http://jalopnik.com/5733319/how-an-old-jeep-sparked-a-viral-manifesto-on-relationships.
I agree with Jeff and see a big red flag there.

hey Brazilgirl if your boyfriend was the Jeep guy on this blog how would have you reacted? (it's interesting to get a womans point of view) I know the guy is in over his head on the jeep that is for sure. however i think he is probably young & mite be having a good time working on the thing. i bet he is learning a bunch that he never knew also, so it's no all bad.

I am a big Toyota truck nut. I have put that part of me on hold (by choice) for a while till i get some other things in my life straightened out (like get my wife here & pay off the house)  After that it's my time & if i see fit to spend it in the garage welding up a couple of serious looking bumpers for 1 or my 4x4's or rebuilding an engine then that's exactly what i will do!!!! ( i hope i wasn't unclear)
I will not spend every waking moment of my life doing it though, there has to be balance. some time with the wife some time alone doing the things i like to do.

Jm has she ever been on a big sailboat in her life ??
if not then there is still a chance that she mite like it.
it's not every day that you get to take the boat out, do a little fishing,
smell the salt air,& enjoy the peace & quiet of the ocean.
if you really love that boat & you work hard for a living (& i think you do)
you may want to keep it. after all you may start to resent your girlfriend/wife because she made you give it up.


pig

[robert angel]

If something is that much a part of your life and of your actual upbringing, I couldn't see giving it up to marry someone who abhorred the thought--the cost. It's great that you've discussed the fiscal realities, because this 'issue' has the potential to bite and keep chewing at the two of you for a long, long time. That said, being able to use somebody else's boat is great--to me, that's the best kind of boat in the world. But is that going to be available ten or twenty some years from now?

My first wife never ever set foot in my boat/s, not even when they were on a trailer. My first boat was really small potatoes, but my second boat was a new, obviously more expensive endeavor and to be honest, looking back, I wish I had never bought the thing. To me, for as little as it's used, and all the money sunk into it--it represents waste, but it sounds like you, Jm, really use yours more and get a lot more out of the whole experience. My wife knew it was something I enjoyed from back before we met and she didn't stand in the way.

I had saved for quite a while and before I bought it, I told her "I don't want this to be an ongoing contentious issue--if you have any problems--or if you want to put a real nice in-ground pool and/or a tennis court in the back yard, we can do that instead with the money". She said, "No--you've saved a long time and if you really want it--that's fine". She had joined me at boat shows before we even married and knew I had long fancied one--when we were engaged, she even threw out the thought of paying half on a Searay overnighter cabin cruiser, but I said 'no thanks'. I think that the way it unfolded with the boats I did buy was fair and how it should be, in that she knew I had been around and loved boats long before I'd met her and she didn't mind me pursuing it, although it got progressively more expensive. And she didn't mind me disappearing for a day or two at a time--even going out alone--as long as I had radio and/or phone contact and full safety gear.

But if I knew it would be an ongoing bone of contention, I wouldn't have bought a second one, not with two young kids. If it was just the two of us, lord knows what I'd be into--I'd probably be making payments on a Boston Whaler or Grady White 27 footer with twin Hondas or Yamahas, really pissing my retirement dollars away...

[Jedironin]

^ "Investing in your retirement home." 

[piglett]

how about this
buy a high dollar gaming chair & put it in your "man cave"

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/81196300/

pig

[william3rd]

Seems to me that the boat issue may be a sign of things to come. . . . . . . you may want to find someone to sail with you or at least someone who will support your passion.

[jm21-2]

My parents' boat is a nice, newer 35' racer/cruiser with all the amenities. I figure if there's a way to sucker her in that's it....go over to Blake Island where she can plug in a heater, watch the Seattle skyline at night with a couple filet mignons on the bbq....

She's been on some ferries and other commercial boats, but never out sailing. It's apparently illegal to own personal pleasurecraft in Taiwan. Only for commercial use.

I think if it didn't cost much, she'd at least give it a try, and then we could work up to something a bit more expensive as my income goes up (assuming she enjoyed herself). The problem is the cheap trailer sailers with their tiny bunks, porta potty under where you sleep, no shower, etc...will not be the best first impression.

There's a place where I could moor a boat for free but it dries out completely....I'm thinking maybe a cat like a hobie 21 sport cruiser would work though...a little expensive for what they are...




I think most of her issues with it are financial (need to save every cent possible), part of it's a little bit of jealousy...but I think a lot of it is differences in how our families worked. My parents do everything together and with family whenever possible. It's hard for me to even think about a couple going off and doing their own thing unless it's necessary for work or something. Her family didn't really go on family trips and her parents would each go on small vacations by themselves. Makes for a very different perspective about vacationing.

EDIT:
To elaborate, I think she'd be fine if I spent $2.5k on sailing and went out on some trips on my own, so long as she could spend $2.5k to take a month long trip to SE Asia by herself. But to me that seems crazy. EDIT2: if we had the money.

[Researcher]

  This can be a sticky subject because there are many variables.It depends on how the hobby or activity affects the marriage.Is it very expensive or time consuming?Will it take away time or money(alot anyway) from the couple?These things are what makes a hobby or activity a problem for a couple.A few years ago I played guitar and had my own band.I had put together this PA system that sounded great and I also ran sound for other bands.Last year I sold it because I didn't have the band any more and it was just sitting around collecting dust.Recently I have had my eye on a PA system made by BOSE that is compact but sounds great.I can tell that my wife doesn't want me to get it because it just might turn out to be another "dust collector".But I'm waiting until I have time to put it to use.I've always tried  to be compact but still have a good sound so I will probably get it so I can do smaller gigs here and there.I don't think my wife will go for it until I put it to use but if I find a good deal I'm going for it.This system costs about half of what I got for the old system I had so I think we came out ahead on that one.I can see her side of it but this is something I love doing.

   Researcher

[piglett]

 part of it's a little bit of jealousy

what???

[euforia51]

So boat ownership has repeatedly been a source of arguments between my fiance and I.

...and she wouldn't go on a 9-day trip with me. I don't really want to go alone for 9 days...

Sorry man, doesn't it say somewhere in the vows "for better or for worse?" W3 posted that this could be a sign of other things to come; especially if you were to give this up. Afterall, it sounds like this is a passion of yours that runs deep and carries over into your family as well. Maybe she is being a little selfish for wanting to be a roadblock. While it's difficult to know the ëntire situation on both sides, I can almost guarantee if you give in to this, it will get worse further down the road. She will have won a battle, so to speak ... and she will test to see if she can win another one... and another... and another...

...if you really love that boat & you work hard for a living (& i think you do)
you may want to keep it. after all you may start to resent your girlfriend/wife because she made you give it up.

Well said pigman ... I definitely see some resentment coming if you give this up or compromise beyond what you're really willing to tolerate solely on her behalf.

[jm21-2]

what???

What happens when you say "I'm not sure if I can afford to visit you again" (but I paid all these expenses and moorage for a boat)


She is the type of person who would save nearly every cent and just pack it away. If she's willing to give up on traveling and other things she likes to do in order to save more and be sure of our financial future, isn't it kind of selfish of me to want to spend money on my thing? Especially considering she's moving out to someplace she really doesn't want to move to?

[euforia51]

With all of this money she is hell bent on saving, surely there is a little money in the budget for you to be doing your passion. Sounds like this was yours long before she entered the picture. Who is she to want to take this away from you? Yes, it's selfish. Can you compromise on the budget and expenses? Of course. But don't think she wants to stop there given what you told us so far.

I am going through a somewhat similar situation with a best friend of mine and his Phillipino wife of 6 years. Recently, he and I wanted to finish some song writing and recording projects from back when we were in bands together and she is hell bent on making sure this doesn't happen. There are no expenses involved because I own all of the recording equipment. So why not? We are both scratching our heads over this. It's gotten so bad, he and I cannot even talk on the phone anymore without her losing her damn mind. And we we're only talking about getting together for a few hours once a week. So what happened? Nothing. I don't call him anymore and he calls me to stay in touch when she is at work. It is total BS and he knows it. We have been best friends for 15 years!

My advice, and you can take it for what it's worth, is don't give in to this. This is not a trivial hobby you are doing just to kill some time and spend some money. This is your passion and a big part of your life. Give it the respect that it deserves.

[braziliangirl]

hey Brazilgirl if your boyfriend was the Jeep guy on this blog how would have you reacted? (it's interesting to get a womans point of view)

Pig,

When I was younger, I had a boyfriend that was really into car sound systems. Sometimes he would spend the weekend working on his or one his friend's car. When I met him, I already knew about that, so I asked if I could stay around. I started asking stuff, learning, and eventually helping him. We would grab something to drink, then spend hours cutting mdf boards, messing with wires etc. It was fun... Not because I'm all about sub-woofers and stuff, but because I enjoyed his company.

So I think I would whether let the guy alone with his Jeep (meaning not complaining about), or end up working on it with him. Come on, she was not even his wife and he was spending his own money. I don't think it is fair to complain about.

I guess if you want to postpone or give up a dream or something that you really like, it has to be because you took that decision (like you and your Toyota) and not because someone annoyed you to do that.

[Researcher]

 Hey Euforia I can almost understand about the  lady's feeling toward music.After being involved for so long I have seen what can be associated with it, such as other women! But  I gave that stuff up long before I met my wife.I also know the looonng hours that can be involved in writing and recording music.I recently played guitar at a get together  of some friends of ours and it was fun.But I am after just pure enjoyment now.That's why I like that BOSE system.No heavy speakers or other equipment to carry and quick setup and tear down.

   Researcher

[piglett]

What happens when you say "I'm not sure if I can afford to visit you again" (but I paid all these expenses and moorage for a boat)


She is the type of person who would save nearly every cent and just pack it away. If she's willing to give up on traveling and other things she likes to do in order to save more and be sure of our financial future, isn't it kind of selfish of me to want to spend money on my thing? Especially considering she's moving out to someplace she really doesn't want to move to?

why can't you just work a little extra so the boat doesn't effect your budget at all? what are we talking about 3k/4k extra a year?
she is telling you to sell this boat & she has never even stepped foot on the thing? am i missing something here?

pig
 

[piglett]

I guess if you want to postpone or give up a dream or something that you really like, it has to be because you took that decision (like you and your Toyota) and not because someone annoyed you to do that.

well now see that's it. if JM wants to sell HIS boat it's for him ONLY to decide. he payed for the thing. it's not like the bank is about to take his house.
his GF pressuring him to sell it is just wrong (got to call em' like i see em')
it would be different if he had no job or one that didn't pay much & they had a baby on the way. but that is just not the case. 

JM spending +/- 5% of your income on something you love is not at all out of line.
even if it's closer to 10% so what, you made that money. how many guys smoke, drink every weekend with the boys, smoke dope, play the horses, bet on sports.....etc, etc.
Hell if all you have is this 1 dam vice your woman would be really wise to walk,carry,drag  or whatever you to the church ASAP & make things official!!!! if she doesn't wish to then i can tell you this, there will be one hell of a line of ladies ready to take her place.(Brazilgirl wouldn't you say that would be true?)


best of luck
pig    

[Ray]

[Jeff S]

Really the issue isn't about whether it fits in the budget or not - those things can be compromised. You two having arguments about it? and she's never been on one? This is a control issue, not a boat issue or a money issue IMO.

[Woody]

She wants you to give up your DREAM because it costs $2.5k/year to maintain the boat you already own? No! This is your make or break moment, my friend. Accept that she may not want to go on the boat(Do not accept not trying it before saying no. She has to take at least an overnighter), do not accept her ripping your dream away.

This is only the beginning. If you fold on this, you will fold on everything else that comes down the line until you cannot take it anymore and do something everyone will regret.

[z_k_g]

Easy survey!

Zulu

[Capstone]

Having experienced the frugality of Chinese women first hand, I can definitely understand both sides of the disagreement. It is pretty much ingrained in Chinese women to cut out all waste wherever possible in order to save that extra penny. But unless the costs of maintaining your boat really do prevent you from providing a modest lifestyle once married, then you definitely need to man-up and put your foot down about this. Failure to do so will only cause bigger issues down the road.

I had a similar experience after getting married in that my wife questioned the practicality of me forking out cash every year for football season tickets. In her mind in was a waste of money and something that she could not share/enjoy with me. I simply explained how much I enjoyed it and was very firm in not giving something up that I enjoy so much. As it turned out she started accompanying me to games and now really enjoys the tailgating aspect of going to the games and no longer thinks that it is such a waste of money.

Marriage is all about compromise but the insistence on one giving up something that they really enjoy just to save a few dollars (unless saving a few more dollars is absolutely necessary) is not compromise but rather control. Chinese women like to have input and some control when it comes to the finances but you can not allow yourself to be persuaded into giving up something that you enjoy so much. 

Now if the costs of the boat really do start to interfere with the ability to do basic things once married then that is a different story all together and in that case you should really consider giving up the boat.