Changing habits or giving up hobbies/activities

[robert angel]

Jm,

Excuse me if my recall of how your relationship has proceeded isn't 100% correct, neither is my memory, but here goes: It seems at first and for quite a while, that you were more into pursuing her than she was in returning the interest. This and her economic thoughts and behavior may be related to her culture, I realize.

It seems you two were kind of hit or miss, even up to the trip in Thailand, on 'neutral ground'. You seemed to have difficulty 'reading her'. But even before and I think to a lesser extent after the trip, you were worried about her going to Australia. You have worried that she will not be happy in your area--in the USA in general. That worry is normal if a fiance/bride has never been in a person's homeland.

You have always, with the exception of in this relationship, seemed to me to be a very logical person. You are obviously very intelligent and a hard worker--they don't just give Juris Doctor degrees away and I bet it was a decent law school at that. You have expressed angst at working in the legal profession, although it sounds like your practice is going fairly well business $$ wise--that its growing and that if you wanted, you could tough it out and grow it further -- if not where you are, maybe in a bigger town close by and bring on partners.

You have beginning experience in managing the office/practice already. I'd think in five or ten years, with a few partners and interns, your workload could be less, with people to cover for you more and higher revenues coming in and a better quality of life here.

You could walk away from all that and you and her could perhaps for example, take on jobs teaching in China. I'd hate to think of you thinking in five or ten years, as you sit in a tiny apartment, counting cups of beans and rice, worrying that the communist govt. might revalue the currency, perhaps with a child or two, for whom the price of a second computer or private music lessons would be prohibitive, as you recall how you gave it all up and walked away from what you'd belatedly come to realize was a good situation, for one not nearly as good.

Giving up the rat race, your BMW, boat and trappings of luxury sound good, even romantic, but the reality is often quite different.

If she comes here and likes it, that negates that to a large extent. But this boat thing--I just don't see sense in you giving up something that's been in you and your family's  blood since birth, something that was long a 'pre existing condition' before you met this lady and now kow towing to her near demands that you do so, or else fear her wrath down the line. I think the term was 'man up' here or be compromised on down the line forever. I agree and feel that certain conditions and yes, compromises from both sides, should be formally agreed on before you commit.

Your parents obviously didn't raise a fool, Jm and are close by. Have you sought their consul, telling them the details? It might be wise.

I just have seen red flags all along the way of varying intensity. One was you musing that at around age 30, if I recall, that it was time to marry. I really don't agree with that premise and I hope that doesn't factor in too much in your decision making, causing you to be hasty. When the woman and man are 'right' for each other--then it's the right time. I know you have a lot of time, emotion and capital invested in all this, but going back to the drawing board or clarifying what the two of you really want and agreeing to stick to it detail wise, might be worth giving more time towards.

I just see too much uncertainty in several areas here to advise proceeding.

The rest of your lives ought to be a good, long time and I hope you get it right the first time and don't instead end up spending years going down an unhappy path.

[Jeff S]

You could walk away from all that and you and her could perhaps for example, take on jobs teaching in China. I'd hate to think of you thinking in five or ten years, as you sit in a tiny apartment, counting cups of beans and rice, worrying that the communist govt. might revalue the currency, perhaps with a child or two, for whom the price of a second computer or private music lessons would be prohibitive you gave what you HAD all up and walked away from what you'd come to realize was a good situation for one not nearly as good.

Geez! Bleak picture.

On the other hand, living in a place like China just might not be so horrible. http://emsique.blogspot.com/ (Better to read starting in 2009 and coming forward.) Marshall is sure enjoying himself.

[robert angel]

Geez! Bleak picture.

On the other hand, living in a place like China just might not be so horrible. http://emsique.blogspot.com/ (Better to read starting in 2009 and coming forward.) Marshall is sure enjoying himself.

Maybe so Jeff, hopefully so. I guess I'm being over dramatic in that particular paragraph--in this case, you can 'go home again' after all.

Jm's not exactly England's King-Emperor Edward VIII, abdicating the British throne (1936) and causing a constitutional crisis here, although I think Prince Edward and Mrs. Simpson probably put more time and thought into their relationship and it certainly, against great odds, worked out well.

Maybe I've read too much Edgar Allen Poe, but I personally think anyone thinking of marrying another person should have at least one 'devil's advocate' on the sidelines.

Maybe I'm just being down and mean hearted.

In my first marriage, the 'devil's advocate' was my best friend, who didn't feel my first wife was 'right for me' and although he attended the wedding, he refused on those grounds, to be my best man. Boy, was he right! He likes my choice on my second wife, I'm glad to say.

[jm21-2]

Having experienced the frugality of Chinese women first hand, I can definitely understand both sides of the disagreement. It is pretty much ingrained in Chinese women to cut out all waste wherever possible in order to save that extra penny. But unless the costs of maintaining your boat really do prevent you from providing a modest lifestyle once married, then you definitely need to man-up and put your foot down about this. Failure to do so will only cause bigger issues down the road.

...
Now if the costs of the boat really do start to interfere with the ability to do basic things once married then that is a different story all together and in that case you should really consider giving up the boat.

This is the problem. I have been spending quite a bit of money last year, three trips to Asia and all, as well as buying a car, downpayment on a house, etc. My savings at the beginning of this year look about the same as they did at the beginning of last year. After taxes it might be a bit of a loss. Truthfully, it's the first time I've had money in my life and I have been spending too much and need to reign myself in. She sees all this and thinks I have $0 to support her as I'm just breaking even and need to make some cuts.

Now during this same last year I have not exactly had good look with my boat. I got caught in a large storm (during which several sailboats in the area were grounded or dismasted, 7+ foot waves and 60+mph winds) out of cell phone range and my family and her freaked out to all hell, called the coast guard, etc. Then when we were moving the boat from one marina to another the outboard blew out and we stopped at the city dock in Gig Harbor while I quickly tried to find a replacement motor. Of course, it was the weekend of a wooden boat show and they were about to tow the boat away by the time we figured it out. Then $2k for a new outboard, but the dealer didn't do something they were supposed to and the motor was all screwed up..$200 or so not covered by warranty to fix it, and then the choke broke and that took a while to figure out. About $500 in parts to put in a new head and holding tank (they had stripped the old head and macerator out and put in a porta potty) but we kept having problems and spent about 3 weekends before everything was in right. For all those expenses and PITA experiences I was able to take the boat out maybe 5 weekends. That's about $500 and maybe 4 hours of labor per day of pleasure.

So that's the information she is looking at. I am breaking even and when I have to support her I'll be in the red, so I need to make budget cuts. She sees $400-500/month for boat maintenance and repairs at the same time and doesn't like it one bit, especially since boating seems like such a major PITA given last year's performance.

Now I'm an optimist and think, hey, I did a bunch of stuff to the boat last year, this year should be relatively smooth sailing. I'm not going to Asia for a while so I'll have more time to use the boat and will save money there, and I'm going to be cutting various business expenses as contracts expire. She'll get here in March or April and we will probably have some money problems for 2-3 months but by the end of July or August at the latest we'll be in good shape.

And for clarity's sake, she's not saying I can't have a boat. She just thinks the moorage cost is too high (and to a large extent, I agree with her, unless you use the boat a lot). What we have talked about is whatever money I get for selling the boat I would put into a new boat fund and could add $2k to that as well if I wanted for the purchase of a new boat, so long as it didn't have moorage costs.

Does that information change anyone's mind?

EDIT:
Thinking about it a bit, I got that new home buyer tax credit that basically eliminated my taxes last year. So I've been living quite a bit outside my means this last year.

[Woody]

Does that information change anyone's mind?

Nope. 2008-2009 ski season was a massive expense for me. I ended up paying $1200 for three hours of snowboarding(season pass, all new gear. Separated my shoulder after 3 hours on the mountain). A lot of people asked me if I was done with snowboarding. You know what I did? The very next week I bought a spare board(brand new 2007 model Solomon 158 Wide for $100). Day one of the 09-10 season I was on the mountain with the same gear and a new pass. I used that pass 17 times last season. That was a good year.


My point is: You have good years, you have bad years. Last year was a bad year. You'll have more bad years, but as long as you have enough good years it makes it worth it.

If you think you aren't going to run into the same situation with a house, you are fooling yourself.

[Capstone]

Does that information change anyone's mind?

Yes. If any activity starts to interfere with ones ability to adequately provide for their family then it is time to give it up. If you will be living beyond your means - Family first,  toys second.

[Bob_S]

the costs of a good set of clubs, greens fees, etc...

Who needs good clubs?  If you're just starting out to see if you like it, you can go to a used sporting goods store and pick up a basic set for around $25.  throw in a used putter and bag, bargain ball bin, etc., and you are out the door for about $50.  As for green fees, avoid the country clubs, stick with the municipal courses until you get comfortable enough with the game to make it worth it.  You can get through your first year for less than $100 per month (as long as you don't go out every weekend).  Half that is just on the driving range!

I got caught in a large storm (during which several sailboats in the area were grounded or dismasted, 7+ foot waves and 60+mph winds)...Then $2k for a new outboard,...$200 or so not covered by warranty to fix it, ...About $500 in parts to put in a new head and holding tank...That's about $500 and maybe 4 hours of labor per day of pleasure.

Damn.  When it rains, it pours, eh?

$2,500 per year really isn't all that bad if that was just it.  That's $50 per week.  Heck, we spend that much just eating out each week!

I think Jeff's right.  It's not as much about the money as it is about control.  She's testing you to see how much she can control you and at what point you'll man-up and push back.  It's a common relationship thing even with a good woman.  But if you can demonstrate it's important to you, and you hold your ground, a good woman will respect you and not try to block you, just as you respected her enough to explain why it is so important to you.

If you think you aren't going to run into the same situation with a house, you are fooling yourself.

Heard that.  Gawds, that is so true.  Just had a necessary and expensive December.  Equal to 3 months of mortgage payments.   

[thekfc]

We all have "vices" or hobbies that we will have to cut down on or make compromises.

Fortunately mine is electronics, music & movies - things that my wife do have an interest in.

I just made a big purchase for a movie boxset - $676. 
It includes 668 remastered/restored movies from the Celestial's Shaw Brothers Film Collection. That is something that I had been eying - I even cut down on buying any "toys" the pass 3 months just so I can get it.
As per Celestial Pictures, some of the titles will never be released for Home Entertainment Distribution because of problems with are co-ownership rights, changes in company leadership as well as money & legal issues.
It was released in Singapore but if released in HK, Japan, Taiwan & any other Asian countries - a lot of the titles will be omitted.
I already have alot of the remastered movies but there were movies that I wanted & many never had a proper release. It is something any true collector will want.

It is also something that both me & my wife can enjoy watching together.

I know that I have to make sacrifices & are starting to in other places.

[Ray]

Q:

Does that information change anyone's mind?

A:

[jm21-2]

If you think you aren't going to run into the same situation with a house, you are fooling yourself.

Oh, I know. I was scheduled to visit my parents for thanksgiving and then the next day fly out to Taiwan. The Tuesday before thanksgiving we had a snow storm and power outage for several hours. When the power came back on around 1am the heater blew out. Because of that, the pipes froze. 4am the day before Thanksgiving awoke to the sound of a geyser flooding the kitchen and living room. All sorts of fun. I've got several hundred square feet of flooring to replace the crapped out carpet in the bedrooms....renting is looking awfully good right now.

Capstone,

This is how I would lean. I need to spend the next 1-2 years making my practice more efficient and getting my budget under control. Then think more about toys. But like others have said, this does seem like a bit of a control issue and there may be no going back if I give in.

At this point I think we've both agreed we're going to wait a bit after she gets here before getting married and see how things go. I think a lot is just worry/anxiety as this visa process draws out further and further. We have both been really out of sorts lately and being long distance doesn't help. We get along amazingly well in person and I think a lot of issues might resolve themselves within a month or so of her being here. We're close enough that it's definitely worth waiting for at least that.

[euforia51]

 Hey Euforia I can almost understand about the  lady's feeling toward music. After being involved for so long I have seen what can be associated with it, such as other women!

I hear ya, Researcher with the wine, women, and song. But let's think about this, my friend and I are too middle aged white boys both in pursuit of foreign women. He got his already and I am "courting" mine. JMs and my friend's situations are control issues. They have nothing to do with song writing, PA systems, boats, money, or even other women.

Anyhow, I like Ray's answer to this thread the best despite it being a little extreme. Clever, funny, and to the point and all without saying a word. I did a LMAO when I saw that. 

[z_k_g]

JMs and my friend's situations are control issues. They have nothing to do with song writing, PA systems, boats, money, or even other women.

I agree from the fly on the wall perspective!

Zulu

[robert angel]

Re:


>>Anyhow, I like Ray's answer to this thread the best despite it being a little extreme. Clever, >funny, and to the point and all without saying a word. I did a LMAO when I saw that.<<

Isn't that the truth! Way to go Ray--proving that a picture can be worth MORE than a thousand words. Guess I ought to learn how to drop pictures like that and save a lot of time--Ray's 'repertoire' in that regard is pretty cool--he seem to have something for every occasion. I think he and Dave H must have gone to the same cut n paste, click art schools... 

[piglett]

Q:


A:

Ray is busting out with the L9000
he he he he 
way to go !!!
pig

[Dave H]

Who needs good clubs?  If you're just starting out to see if you like it, you can go to a used sporting goods store and pick up a basic set for around $25.

Hey Bob,

In South Florida, I used to pick up great sets of golf clubs out trash piles. With all of the snow birds kicking the bucket every winter, I started to give them  away to friends. You could buy late model luxury cars, with low mileage cheap as well. I LUV New Yawk! 

Dave

[Dave H]

 I think he and Dave H must have gone to the same cut n paste, click art schools... 

Hey Rob,

It helps me since I am a visual learner. Actually, I went to Ray's school. He taught me everything that I know.  Thanks again Ray!

Dave

[Dave H]

So boat ownership has repeatedly been a source of arguments between my fiance and I. It started out as an annoying and incomprehensible hobby to her. Then I would be out of cell phone range now and then visiting remote islands for a day or two and she hated that, so hated boats more. Then replacing an outboard was kind of expensive and didn't really sit well with her. Then she found out how expensive moorage was and that was basically it. Get rid of the current boat and get a cheap boat with no moorage and low maintenance (yeah, that's common) if absolutely necessary but she won't come out with me. So finally I put the boat up for sale.

Hey jm,


"Most Asians" (I'm walking out on the plank here) don't seem to understand the concept of "recreational or pleasure boating." To them that would be a tour boat that charges money. A boat is basically used for transportation (passengers and cargo) or fishing to most Asians. Maybe you could start charging your passengers (including friends and family) or better yet, tell her it is for entertaining and wooing clients. Learn from Jeff...bring along a few fishing poles!

It wasn't easy, but I finally found a boat that your fiancee approves of!  

Dave

[thekfc]

One more visual arts for you Dave H.


 

[jm21-2]

Hey jm,


"Most Asians" (I'm walking out on the plank here) don't seem to understand the concept of "recreational or pleasure boating." To them that would be a tour boat that charges money. A boat is basically used for transportation (passengers and cargo) or fishing to most Asians. Maybe you could start charging your passengers (including friends and family) or better yet, tell her it is for entertaining and wooing clients. Learn from Jeff...bring along a few fishing poles!

It wasn't easy, but I finally found a boat that your fiancee approves of!  

Dave

Definitely. Like I said, it seems to actually be illegal in Taiwan to own your own boat for personal use.

Her only experience with boating is ferries. She didn't like riding a ferry on the pacific with huge waves going out to an island, so gunkholing around a calm sound must be bad.

[Jedironin]

So... I guess the guys are saying that you should trade in your boat and buy a dump truck. 

[JWR]

Ok, I am a sailor like you for my entire life.  Cruised long term, raced, all aspects of the sport.  I don't want to sound harsh but here it goes.  Find a new girl right now.  It's not worth it.  Sailing is like eating and breathing, you need it for your soul.  And it's alot more fun watching sunsets with your girl from the cockpit.  Watching sunsets alone is non-sense.  She's never going to like it, her mind is closed, just quietly let her go down the road.

I was married to a Colombian girl for 10 years and just recently divorced.  You do not want to go through this pain I'm going to tell you.  If she is acting so insensitive toward your primary passion, this will only be the beginning.  You'll crash and burn down the road for some other reason.  May not be the boat, but it will be something else.  Normally I don't give such opinions, but this one is obvious, just find someone else to join you in the cockpit.

[Ray]

Hey JWR,

I’m a sailor too, but I didn’t know it was a sport. That damn recruiter told me it was an adventure.

Oh well…

[Researcher]

   This is a situation with several possibilities.Could she be trying to control everything?Maybe. Or does she have a legitimate gripe? maybe.It all depends on the circumstances.It also depends on how important the hobby is.If it is more important than the relationship then both people will be better off if they part company.My situation with the PA system was that I wasn't that attached to it at the time anyway and was ready to move on.Now that I see a better option to having a  large system I am glad I let it go.I am busy now with my work so I don't have time for it.When I do decide to purchase another system I want to make sure I have the time to use it.I think it will be this year sometime.When I do I think my wife will be OK with it and if not that is a bridge I will cross later.

   I'm not a sailor but I do have friends that are into it bigtime.I don't see how anyone could dislike it so much but I guess these people exist.It all comes down to making a choice of what your priorities are.Everybody has their own.

  Researcher

[Slingerland]

Jm, I hope you'll forgive a question from a newbie, but what boat do you sail?  I have a Catalina-25 fixed keel that I've owned for years.  I sail in a local lake, so I'm not a blue water sailor like you.

[jm21-2]

It's just a cheap old boat, a '71 ericson 27', but in very good shape for its age. Just a boat you can gunkhole around in without worrying about spending a fortune.

A trailerable boat has some advantages...would be great ot go up to desolation sound for a week or so. A little powerboat would be fun because I could go to a lot more interesting places on the weekends. Well, we'll see.

Talked with my dad a bit last night and he thinks I should sell the boat for now just inc ase my finances don't work out, then in a year or two think about it again.