What makes a Filipina 'mature'? Is 'mature' different than in your country?

[piglett]

Hey Pig,,,did your wife take the NClex test in the PI?

Steveb

not yet she just started back to work on the 10th
I have to go down to the B.O.N. in my state & see what they have to say.
maybe they will give me great news, maybe they will be a PITA
i guess i'll see.


pig 

[Dave H]

Well, Howard got a great wife and mother! So any way you look at it, it's a win -win situation for him!

If a Filipina finds herself in that situation and wants to work as an RN in the US, it is probably easiest and cheapest to obtain an associate's degree in nursing at a US school, then take the NCLEX-RN exam and apply for their RN license. It is a great review and will prepare them for the NCLEX exam.

Dave

[jm21-2]

But I disagree that age is a primary factor.  Is it one of the factors, yes.  But its a variable in an equation with many many factors.  Age is an indirect co-factor that deals with maturing and long term goals.  

Most of the arguments against a union with an 18 year involve immaturity, changing of long and short term goals and emotional instability.  Are these valid issues and criticisms?  Yes, of course, but on balance these are issues with every marriage.  If you look at analysis of causes for divorces you will find these EXACT same issues.  

Others will respond that the odds are higher with an 18 year old bride and she is just not ready for marriage.   I find it interesting that most marriages, over 50% in USA, end in divorce.  So whats the real argument here?

The divorce rate here is not 50%, it's probably around 35%. Part of the reason the divorce rate is so high is because people here marry too damn young (especially compared with some Asian countries). Also because of serial divorcees.

My dad was a marriage counselor for a while and he thought the biggest cause of couples divorcing was that one would go into a new phase of life and their spouse didn't adjust to it. E.g. one spouse retires but the other is still working, one goes through their mid-life crisis while the other is younger or older and doesn't deal with it well. These situations are made much worse by marrying someone who is just leaving childhood behind. As others have said, you end up with a mix of husband-wife and father-daughter relationship. Some may be OK with that but it's not something that should be glossed over.

Arguing that age doesn't matter is like arguing that money doesn't matter. It sounds nice but it's simply not true.

[Researcher]

  That's true JM.The real argument here is how do you know if the 18 y/o is going to change for the better or worse?That's something that can't be known so it makes the situation more unpredictable than usual.Given the fact that 18 y/o's do change, generally speaking, it makes this possibility very real.And all of them may not change but how can anyone know which ones will or won't change.Talk about a real crap shoot!


   Researcher

[Jeff S]

I'll teach you exactly the difference between mature women in the US and in Asia.




In the US:





In Asia:



Note: all women in these pictures are in their mid 50s.

Any questions?

[euforia51]

Man, that's funny ... hard to tell who's been eating their sushi! 

[Bill_McC]

Actually I think its pretty easy to tell who eats healthy and walks alot; who eats junk like McDonalds and Pizza Hut and drives everywhere, and who does things instead of just sitting in front of a television.

Just my opinion...

Bill

[z_k_g]

Arguing that age doesn't matter is like arguing that money doesn't matter. It sounds nice but it's simply not true.

Jm,

Where in what you quoted did I state that age does not matter?

It does matter, along with many other factors, and I said as much.

Zulu

[z_k_g]

The divorce rate here is not 50%, it's probably around 35%. Part of the reason the divorce rate is so high is because people here marry too damn young (especially compared with some Asian countries). Also because of serial divorcees.

Jm,

I stand by my statement, the divorce rate is 50% in the USA. 

If you take the weighted averages of the number of divorces, with more being first time marriages, then you will get an effective 50% divorce rate, the real number.

Also:

The divorce rate in America for first marriage, vs second or third marriage
50% percent of first marriages, 67% of second and 74% of third marriages end in divorce, according to Jennifer Baker of the Forest Institute of Professional Psychology in Springfield, Missouri.

According to enrichment journal on the divorce rate in America:
The divorce rate in America for first marriage is 41%
The divorce rate in America for second marriage is 60%
The divorce rate in America for third marriage is 73%

my source:  http://www.divorcerate.org/

On this same website the statistics for marrying at a younger age for AMERICAN WOMEN, under 24, is 36.6%, the highest in the survey. 

The AMERICAN MALE divorce rate is 6.5% males 35 to 39.

But we are talking about AMERICAN MALES,  35 to 39, with at very low divorce rate, and a foreign bride. Lets now reference Dan's Survey.

From the survey on Divorce rate, we can see that Dan's conclusions were clear in black and white (based on his sample group)

Dan states the Domestic Divorce rate is around 48% (not sure where he gets this number but its close to my stated effective divorce rate of 50%, do you dispute Dan's 48%?  I looked through his post and didn't see you raise your objection to his estimates.)

Further, Dans concludes that cross cultural marriage fail at a 41% divorce rate and most of these unions involve a female younger than the husband.   (There was no age stratification data published)

Based upon Dan's empirical data, Cross cultural marriages failure rates go out the roof when couples have "One Week Wonder Marriages" and get hitched quickly, they almost reach 60%.

He did not address the "18 year old" bride question.

Jm, I disagree that age is a primary or significant factor/reason for divorce.

Is it one of the factors? Yes! 

But its a variable in an equation with many many factors.  In short, Age is an indirect co-factor that deals with maturing and long term goals. 

Dan addresses some of the co-factors in his report, I won't re-list those here, anyone interested can read his report.

Counselor, I stand by my statements and conclusions based on the listed facts.

Most domestic marriages, based on the sources listed and Dan's report, almost 50% in USA, end in divorce anyway. 

Whereas only 41% cross cultural marriages end in divorce!

So whats the real argument here? 

I don't think there is one.   

Zulu

[thekfc]

The media frequently reports that 50% of American marriages will end in divorce. This number appears to have been derived from very skimpy data related to a single county or state. However, it appears to be reasonably close to the probable value.
The Americans for Divorce Reform estimates that "Probably, 40 or possibly even 50 percent of marriages will end in divorce if current trends continue. However, that is only a projection and a prediction."
Source: "Divorce statistics collection: Summary of findings so far," Americans for Divorce Reform,


Divorce by gender / age group:
Age ~ Women ~ Men
Under 20 years old ~ 27.6% ~11.7%
20 to 24 years old ~ 36.6% ~ 38.8%
25 to 29 years old ~ 16.4% ~ 22.3%
30 to 34 years old ~  8.5% ~ 11.6%
35 to 39 years old ~  5.1% ~ 6.5%

Divorce rate by country:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/peo_div_rat-people-divorce-rate

http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/4/19/40321815.pdf

[Researcher]

The media frequently reports that 50% of American marriages will end in divorce. This number appears to have been derived from very skimpy data related to a single county or state. However, it appears to be reasonably close to the probable value.
The Americans for Divorce Reform estimates that "Probably, 40 or possibly even 50 percent of marriages will end in divorce if current trends continue. However, that is only a projection and a prediction."
Source: "Divorce statistics collection: Summary of findings so far," Americans for Divorce Reform,


Divorce by gender / age group:
Age ~ Women ~ Men
Under 20 years old ~ 27.6% ~11.7%
20 to 24 years old ~ 36.6% ~ 38.8%
25 to 29 years old ~ 16.4% ~ 22.3%
30 to 34 years old ~  8.5% ~ 11.6%
35 to 39 years old ~  5.1% ~ 6.5%

Divorce rate by country:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/peo_div_rat-people-divorce-rate

http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/4/19/40321815.pdf

   Notice the higher %'s are in age group from 18 to 25.I guess alot of younger folks get married and then change their minds later.


  Researcher

[jm21-2]

Jm,

I stand by my statement, the divorce rate is 50% in the USA. 

If you take the weighted averages of the number of divorces, with more being first time marriages, then you will get an effective 50% divorce rate, the real number.

Also:

The divorce rate in America for first marriage, vs second or third marriage
50% percent of first marriages, 67% of second and 74% of third marriages end in divorce, according to Jennifer Baker of the Forest Institute of Professional Psychology in Springfield, Missouri.

According to enrichment journal on the divorce rate in America:
The divorce rate in America for first marriage is 41%
The divorce rate in America for second marriage is 60%
The divorce rate in America for third marriage is 73%

my source:  http://www.divorcerate.org/

On this same website the statistics for marrying at a younger age for AMERICAN WOMEN, under 24, is 36.6%, the highest in the survey. 

The AMERICAN MALE divorce rate is 6.5% males 35 to 39.

But we are talking about AMERICAN MALES,  35 to 39, with at very low divorce rate, and a foreign bride. Lets now reference Dan's Survey.

From the survey on Divorce rate, we can see that Dan's conclusions were clear in black and white (based on his sample group)

Dan states the Domestic Divorce rate is around 48% (not sure where he gets this number but its close to my stated effective divorce rate of 50%, do you dispute Dan's 48%?  I looked through his post and didn't see you raise your objection to his estimates.)

Further, Dans concludes that cross cultural marriage fail at a 41% divorce rate and most of these unions involve a female younger than the husband.   (There was no age stratification data published)

Based upon Dan's empirical data, Cross cultural marriages failure rates go out the roof when couples have "One Week Wonder Marriages" and get hitched quickly, they almost reach 60%.

He did not address the "18 year old" bride question.

Jm, I disagree that age is a primary or significant factor/reason for divorce.

Is it one of the factors? Yes! 

But its a variable in an equation with many many factors.  In short, Age is an indirect co-factor that deals with maturing and long term goals. 

Dan addresses some of the co-factors in his report, I won't re-list those here, anyone interested can read his report.

Counselor, I stand by my statements and conclusions based on the listed facts.

Most domestic marriages, based on the sources listed and Dan's report, almost 50% in USA, end in divorce anyway. 

Whereas only 41% cross cultural marriages end in divorce!

So whats the real argument here? 

I don't think there is one.   

Zulu

I and others have posted extensively on this in the past, and I did a lot of research on the subject for a few classes. I don't really want to go back and find all the links so will just summarize a bit here.

There is basically no good data for divorce rates. No thorough study has been done that I'm aware of. The 50% figure was derived from looking at the number of divorces compared to the number of marriages (within a given year), which doesn't give you a very good picture of what's going on and isn't very accurate at all. Some studies show as low as 15% divorce rate. It also depends whether you're talking about marriage in general or first time marriage, as you pointed out. That's why I mentioned serial divorcees (people who have been married many times) screwing up the figure, because they get married multiple times and are much more likely to divorce. This means they skew the divorce percent of total marriages upwards significantly.

So let's say you have two couples who have only married once and are still married. Throw in one person to the mix who's been divorced twice. There, 50% of marriages end in divorce. But is that really accurate? Take it a step further, 4 couples who have only had one marriage and no divorce, and one person with 4 divorces. Still 50% divorce rate, but really? The problem is a lot of the people who do get divorced divorce a lot. 3-7 divorces is becoming more and more common. This completely screws up the data when just looking at marriage. And since those who are still married are out of the dating pool, the divorcees are typically marrying other divorcees, which means the risk is even higher, which further skews statistics.

This is complicated even further because very few studies go beyond 10 years of marriage. So a 10 year marriage is essentially portrayed as a lifelong marriage. Believe me, this is not always the case.

I have reviewed all the factors that are said to contribute to divorce, such as religion (e.g. atheists are less likely to get divorced than baptists), college degree or no college degree, age at marriage, socioeconomic status, from a broken family or not, pregnant before marriage or not, had sex before marriage or not, and so on. From reviewing these factors it appears that really the only two driving forces are age at marriage and socioeconomic status. Age is the largest factor for people who marry in their teens, then declines rapidly as a factor until age 25 or so. After that it slowly declines again until it becomes of little importance by age 30. The biggest factor by far becomes socioeconomic status. All other factors really are aspects of either age or socioeconomic status. For example, someone who marries after college is less likely to divorce (older and better socioeconomic outlook). Atheists are more likely to divorce than baptists (atheists on average marry older and have higher socioeconomic status). The one other aspect that does seem to have influence is whether they come from a broken home or not, but that's also part of socioeconomic status as well (lower status = more divorces, children from lower socioeconomic families tend to have lower socioeconomic status).

Dan's study is interesting but firstly it doesn't deal much with Asian women. It's mostly women from the FSU. I'm getting an error when I go to open it, but I seem to remember there were very few really long term marriages either (30+ years). It's hard enough parsing out a divorce rate, throwing in people from different nationalities makes it basically impossible. Especially when it's many countries encapsulated in one figure.

[z_k_g]

jm,

Good points.

We need a cross cultural survey, that examines age differences, and other factors, and includes Asia.

Zulu

[FlyingMoose]

Atheists are more likely to divorce than baptists

atheists are less likely to get divorced than baptists

What?

[Woody]

What?

Minor slip. Both times he meant that atheists are less likely to divorce.

[Researcher]

Minor slip. Both times he meant that atheists are less likely to divorce.

   Unless they are under the age of 25...hehehe!

  Researcher

[Jhengsman]

I don't know man I can post pictures of Dana Delany or the local cougar/MILF or even GILF I can also go to the Facebook page of the Asian beauty and see her fat relatives. The Old Maid auntie, the Ate with 5 kids and even the chubby teens and send the opposite message. Beyond a very few like Toni Gonzaga if i stand up the Filipina starlet of a telanovella up nest to an American soap actress corrected for age the Filipina will be chubbier.  Just saying being Asian doesn't mean she will not get fat

I'll teach you exactly the difference between mature women in the US and in Asia.




In the US:





In Asia:



Note: all women in these pictures are in their mid 50s.

Any questions?

[Ray]

Just saying being Asian doesn't mean she will not get fat.

Yes, and I have seen a lot of fat ones out there, though very few that would be considered clinically obese.

Filipinas and other Asians are not immune from the normal accumulation of extra body fat later in life, but seem much less likely to become chubby than their Western counterparts IMHO.

Ray

[Honey]

i'd say experience has a lot to contribute in one's maturity regardless of age and nationality. i got married 4months short of my 21st birthday to a 46-yr old man.  don't know if i was matured then. heck, i don't even know if i'm matured now (10yrs later), LOL!  all i know is that i love the guy i was marrying and i was willing (and still am) to do whatever it takes to make the marriage work.

[piglett]

Yes, and I have seen a lot of fat ones out there, though very few that would be considered clinically obese.

Filipinas and other Asians are not immune from the normal accumulation of extra body fat later in life, but seem much less likely to become chubby than their Western counterparts IMHO.   Ray

I would also say that if you told the average AW "you need to slow down on the eating, I don't want you the size of your chubby sister." you would be in  big trouble.   

at least with my Asian wife she didn't take offence
although it doesn't speak for every Asian chick in the whole world
I think most Asians are more concerned about becoming fat & unattractive


just my 2 cents

pig

[ignorante]

i love the guy i was marrying and i was willing (and still am) to do whatever it takes to make the marriage work.

  Honey, I like your post.
Compare this to the average AW statement - he is not meeting my needs (and I cannot even really tell him specifically what those are).   

[z_k_g]

i'd say experience has a lot to contribute in one's maturity regardless of age and nationality. i got married 4months short of my 21st birthday to a 46-yr old man.  don't know if i was matured then. heck, i don't even know if i'm matured now (10yrs later), LOL!  all i know is that i love the guy i was marrying and i was willing (and still am) to do whatever it takes to make the marriage work.

Honey,

We need more posts and interaction from women in your age group.

I am of the firm believe that every woman and man has the capacity to develop and maintain a healthy relationship with the opposite sex, regardless of age.

Some of our esteemed forum members have erroneously, in my opinion, set the age of acceptance at 26 for seeking a foreign bride.  They opine that a woman under 26 is not capable of anything other than partying, emotional outbursts, and complete indecision about her life.   

They insist that if you marry a woman under 26 you will be not only wasting your time because she is grossly immature, but also wasting her time because you are basically looking for a wife/daughter combination and have no desire for a real woman.

I have expressed my strong opinion of setting a certain age (26) as fundamentally flawed on its face because there are many many factors that determine the success or failure of a relationship.  I will not repeat those factors here, but those factors are essential to establishing a strong interpersonal relationship, and must exist for couples no matter what the age or age difference.

I have dated and had relationships with women much older than 26 who exhibit the same flaws as the ones they associate with a younger woman; I'm sure others on the forum can attest to this with their experiences.

Your post illustrates that a woman under 26 is not a sausage head, emotionally unstable, shopaholic airhead fool that changes her mind at a whim.

Thanks for your post!

Zulu

[Ray]

I have expressed my strong opinion of setting a certain age (26) as fundamentally flawed on its face because there are many many factors that determine the success or failure of a relationship.  I will not repeat those factors here...

Oh thank you zulu!

 

[Jhengsman]

Honey,

We need more posts and interaction from women in your age group.

I am of the firm believe that every woman and man has the capacity to develop and maintain a healthy relationship with the opposite sex, regardless of age.

Some of our esteemed forum members have erroneously, in my opinion, set the age of acceptance at 26 for seeking a foreign bride.  They opine that a woman under 26 is not capable of anything other than partying, emotional outbursts, and complete indecision about her life.   

They insist that if you marry a woman under 26 you will be not only wasting your time because she is grossly immature, but also wasting her time because you are basically looking for a wife/daughter combination and have no desire for a real woman.

I have expressed my strong opinion of setting a certain age (26) as fundamentally flawed on its face because there are many many factors that determine the success or failure of a relationship.  I will not repeat those factors here, but those factors are essential to establishing a strong interpersonal relationship, and must exist for couples no matter what the age or age difference.

I have dated and had relationships with women much older than 26 who exhibit the same flaws as the ones they associate with a younger woman; I'm sure others on the forum can attest to this with their experiences.

Your post illustrates that a woman under 26 is not a sausage head, emotionally unstable, shopaholic airhead fool that changes her mind at a whim.

Thanks for your post!

Zulu

Curious 26 is the age picked since the Filipino law has an age of 25 for parental advice and can delay a marriage for up to 3 months by refusing  thus giving someone their government considers immature a cooling off period.

[z_k_g]

Curious 26 is the age picked since the Filipino law has an age of 25 for parental advice and can delay a marriage for up to 3 months by refusing  thus giving someone their government considers immature a cooling off period.

Jh,

I thought it was 25?

Good point, but consider......

I got a better point for you:

What do you think about drafting an 18 year old young man to carry a M-16, pilot an M1A1 tank or F-18 that can kill thousands but cannot take a swig of his favorite brew or a toke on a cigarette or cigar until he is 21?

Zulu