is the American life the best life?

[JimmySTLOUIS]

Since going to Peru so many times I have become very interested in other cultures.

My wife goes to a very International University and she has friends from countries in Africa, Slovenia, former Soviet countries etc etc

I just sat next to younger (30) German guy on a flight to Miami - he was studying here and I talked his ear off about culture

anyway- to get to my point

I think that most Gringos (myself included) think that America is the best and out lifestyle is the best in the world.

I think America is the best place to be and I never apologize for being American but .......

are you so sure that the Latin lifestyle is soooo bad?

I think for some it is the way to go and for some girls it is really the best lifestyle for them.

lots of family, parties, hanging out, chatting all day on the internet
home made - home cooked meals  etc etc

here is the real icing on the cake - SERVANTS!

yes thats right folks real live maids! they cook the meals, go to the markets, clean your shoes, shine the floor and are at your beck and call

so this is something to think about ....

I mentioned this a long time about about "poor" families that have maids.
keep in mind maids are not house keepers like we have but real deal SERVANTS!

what got me thinking about this is JLO's sister now has a boyfriend
and I think the sister is more spoiled than my wife
poor boy!

she is a cutie so he will chase it


sound familar

TE AMO PERU!!!

Jim 

[raycjs]

Jimmy

i really like the culture in South America and i could see myself living there 4 to 6 months out of the year. i am not sure i could give up my present life in the US. but i could see having a 2nd home in Colombia and going there during the winter. i totally understand the maid (servant thing) almost everyone i met had one that worked for them 5 to 10 hours a day 6 days a week for very little money.


ray

[Jeff S]

There are lots of great cultures in the world to experience. There are also different stages in a person's life where experiencing makes more sense than in others. I could see myself living in and enjoying lots and lots of different places - even more true now with inexpensive and easy communicating, working, and other benefits of the internet.

Best only means best for you - now, for someone else, and for somewhen else, there may be entirely different answers to the best question.

[utopiacowboy]

My wife's family have a ton of servants and as they say, some of them they hire just to give them a job. As far as I can tell the job of some of them is watching TV all day.

[euforia51]

I'm with raycjs on this. I not sure I could give up all of the creature comforts and conveniences that seem to be at my beckon call here in the U.S. I will discuss a few more of my observations as I expand on my trip report to Medellin over Christmas.

There is a trade-off for some things such as the lack of life and soul at parties, for example. I think it was UC on another thread who quoted his wife as saying going to a party with gringos is like going to a meeting...

Regardless, Jeff S says it best, "best only means best for you".

[robert angel]

There are other countries where the cost of living is low and the cost of having someone do your shopping, laundry, cooking--everything household and more--even hiring an additional person as a driver and armed body guard -- on the income that a so called 'middle--upper middle class Joe' makes in the USA, IS possible.

They have beaches, resorts, beautiful people, lively malls, lots of music, good food--fruits, restaurants, theaters and more.

But after a while for many, the lack of ALL the things--the vast variety that the USA brings--the diversity of places, climates and things to do, recreational options, the cleanness, the health care system and relative safety, to mention but a few things, bring people back here.

I have heard that a lot of people (Americans) go to my wife's country and enjoy all the things mentioned in the first paragraph and more, but say that after 2 or 3 years, it gets old. The grinding poverty (you can't stay in a gated community forever) the dirtiness and lack of USA quality health care and the lack of concern about timeliness or doing quality work and whole lot of other little things, all tend to wear on a person. It usually takes time.

In some countries, it takes a couple years before everything, the food, air, water and more, start to take a toll on the body's immune system--by then, the mind is often thinking about life 'back in the states'.


Sure I dream about retiring early and living on the cheap in Asia, South and perhaps Central America. But the dream and the reality of living it out are two very different things typically.


I'd LOVE to up and quit our jobs and move abroad and come home every year or two and if I sold everything we've  got and set a budget, I might pull it off now. But I don't do it and we won't until I'm certain that if I don't like it 'over there' we can come home and still live, retired and not have to make huge sacrifices in our lifestyle due to income I lost by retiring too early.


I'll almost certainly give it a try-moving over there eventually, after all--it's my wife's dream more than mine--especially to live comfortably back home, close to her beloved family. I kind of feel I owe it to her. I have family and children here in the states, whom I love and someday, most likely, Grandchildren will come too, something that I don't want to miss out on.

But even my WIFE wants the option to come back here after I retire and stay for as long as we care to, and she hasn't even lived here for six years of her relatively young life. She still dearly loves her nation--her homeland--but she's plenty proud to be an American Citizen, and wishes her siblings had the same privilege and opportunities our great country offers. She appreciates our nation more than most 'native born citizens'....

Th bottom line is monetary. Until we can have BOTH lifestyles and be able to afford to go back and forth to two domiciles at least two or three times a year, it probably will not be right. My wife's a romantic, but no fool. Even she thinks it's best to keep a modest place here and there and let family members stay there when we're not, whenever possible.


And yes--the USA--if you've got the money honey, the US of A still in my opinion, offers 'the best life' hands down. Places like Lake Placid NY, down through to the Florida Keys, to the Mountains of the great west, Las Vegas, National Parks, to Southern California, to the theme parks in Orlando and other cities, the museums and cultural events in places like NYC and Chicago and so very much more, make it numero uno. Somebody get me a red hot, a Philly Cheese steak, a side of lo mein and a knish, pronto.

And while you're at it, loan me a billion dolars and a personal jet, please. The USA is a big nation and you can live bigger here than anywhere --IF you've got the cash. No, I haven't seen Paris, but frankly, I don't feel like I need to, either. Send me a post card. I've got better things to do, with nicer places to visit and people to see, right here in the good ole USA.

[Colgando]

I feel you guys, my family is from Liberia, Africa and it is the same thing, right now, we have a whole staff of people working for us there, a driver, a watchman, cooks, cleaning people, errand runners all for the handsome sum of a couple hundred bucks american a month.  The people are so grateful and they love having the job, Liberia is a war torn third world nation.  We do not lift a finger to do anything for ourselves when we are there.  That being said, I can see how it gets old living in a gated compound and when you leave the compound, it is true poverty, poverty in the US would be a lifestyle change for the better for people from my parent's country.

Getting set-up to spend time in the US and other countries of choice is my plan as well, the best one for me.  At the end of the day, I am still American, born and raised, it is home, it is my country and people.  After 6 months living in Mex, I was missing home and wanted to go back.  After I got back, I started missing Mex and wanted to return.  I add it up and figure having residences in the countries of choice is the way to go for me.  Just have to be able to fund that kind of lifestyle like you all are saying, but it is achievable with the right plan I think.

[Researcher]

 When I was in Mexico I had a maid who did my laundry and cleaned my apartment.The company paid her but it wasn't much.While I did enjoy that part of being there I hated worling there.It was very frustrating.

  There are many other countries I would like to visit but as far as living I'll just stick to the US right now.As far as opportunity you can't beat it.When I retire though it will be a different story all together.

  Researcher

[zack]

For what it's worth, my wife does not like America as much as I thought she would. She would live in Colombia with me if she had that choice. What bothers her the most about America is how people tend to mind their own business here. For example, our neighborhood is very quit. People say "hi" and may exchange a few words but not much else.

This is a huge contrast to her neighborhood in Colombia. Everybody knows everybody very well. People frequently visit other people on the block and spend time in their homes. They share their stories with almost everyone in the neighborhood. In fact, sometimes the entire street is like one big party. Then she comes to my town and it's like a ghost town compared to hers. Hundreds of people live in my neighborhood but I couldn't tell you the first name of the person living three housed away from me. We know our immediate neighbors well, but that's it. This is very strange to her, and somewhat depressing, but she is getting used to it.

[JimD]

hey is_he_real tell us more. How are the women in Liberia? I bet there are some beauties. What´s their attitude towards American men and do you think there is good wife potential there for us?

Also two hundred a month for four or more employees is pretty good. Does that include health benifits? In Colombia you´d pay something over three hundred for just one employee with all legal benifits.

[piglett]

I think it was UC on another thread who quoted his wife as saying going to a party with gringos is like going to a meeting...

Regardless, Jeff S says it best, "best only means best for you".

Like going to a meeting W T F

[Jeff S]

For what it's worth, my wife does not like America as much as I thought she would. She would live in Colombia with me if she had that choice. What bothers her the most about America is how people tend to mind their own business here. For example, our neighborhood is very quit. People say "hi" and may exchange a few words but not much else.

This is a huge contrast to her neighborhood in Colombia. Everybody knows everybody very well. People frequently visit other people on the block and spend time in their homes. They share their stories with almost everyone in the neighborhood. In fact, sometimes the entire street is like one big party. Then she comes to my town and it's like a ghost town compared to hers. Hundreds of people live in my neighborhood but I couldn't tell you the first name of the person living three housed away from me. We know our immediate neighbors well, but that's it. This is very strange to her, and somewhat depressing, but she is getting used to it.

Many people coming to the US from everywhere in the world find out life here isn't all roses. My life misses many of the niceties of back home, too.

I consider not having the neighborhood one big ongoing block party with people coming and going, to be a positive, rather than a negative thing, as does my wife. We like our privacy. That's one of the "finding out what culture suits you" issues we're always discussing here on this board. I can take life in Latin America in small doses, but am not interested in it as an ongoing lifestyle. In Japan people are extremely cognizant of privacy and personal space. Noise is another issue. In the US there is constant chatter, TV or music, even more so in Latin America, and louder. In Japan, silence is not considered uncomfortable, and with many people, considered restful and polite. The Philippines is more similar to Latin America than Japan in these respects, while China has more of the Japanese traits.

[robert angel]

My wife didn't find life in the USA as she expected. She didn't expect that we'd each be working two jobs (she always wanted to work here) and with the money we make, not be able to live extravagantly.

She wonders where all the time and money goes. Those weren't problems  back where she came from--they didn't have a lot of money and were happy with what they had, and they always seemed to find meaningful interpersonal time everyday with friends and especially family.

She is amazed at how many miserable, whiney, unhappy and basically screwed up people there are in the USA--many are people who seemingly 'have it all'--all the trappings and 'toys' that young and old people alike might want. But its never enough. Then she sees fellow Filipinas become the same way. "More American than the Americans" is the sad way its phrased.

And then she sees the  'other side' of the socio economic structure here--say the 'ghetto' here--people with air conditioned govt. homes or apartments, decent clothes, cable TV, free heat and AC, walking around fat and lazy on food stamps, still getting their beer and liquor and smokes, with free breakfast and lunch for the school kids, with free daycare both before and after school, while the parents stay home, then free food and recreation in the parks in the summer. Family's with 4 or 5 kids who are all from the same family, but each kid has a different last name. She sees all this and thinks:

 "Half the people in my home country would be so grateful to have even half of all they've got".

Yes we have homeless people in very bad situations and much, much more gainfully employable people who can't find jobs they desperately want than the govt. or media wants us to know about, but what other nation offers a 100 weeks of unemployment pay and then with social security going broke, cuts social security with holding from pay checks by a third?

I wonder if towards the end of the Roman Empire, with it's 'bread and circuses' if the people lived this well?

Living here in the USA has definitely shown her that money doesn't buy happiness and that there are millions of poor people elsewhere, who in many ways apart from monetary, have a 'better quality of life' than Americans who have good jobs.

Not to sound trite, because I was sort of the same way towards Asian culture. (which has very wide differences therein, of course) She had some notions about what life in the USA might be like, that came from TV, movies and the media in general and a few people who might have visited here a time or two for a few weeks.

I was certainly surprised when I first got to my hotel room in Manila, turned on the TV and Oprah Winfrey was on. Disgruntled, I went to sleep and woke up, turned on the TV and there was "The Brady Bunch" forever in reruns, showing eternally what the model functional two divorcees remarrying with a handful of kids each, in wonderbread suburbia, USA is really like. I walked out to the street and found just about every American fast food franchise, for breakfast, lunch, dinner, coffee or donuts, that we have here.

My wife didn't let off the first few times we went to beaches along the USA's east coast, but I think she expected it to be more like 'Baywatch', which was hugely popular overseas.

I guess we ought to be glad that the only US based media they show overseas isn't shows like The "Jerry Springer Show" , "America's Most Wanted" and "Dr. Phil". If it was, we'd probably have fewer curious visitors.

What JeffS says about privacy goes to show you how different Asian cultures are. There are very few things you can do alone in the Philippines. Someone wants to always help you or be in on it one way or another. Very curious people. They are the most social people I ever met. Even when suspicious of a foreign stranger, which certainly isn't common, they'll be busy 'checking you out'.

Ninety million people, on 7000 islands? Try two timing a woman on one end of the archipelago and don't be surprised if they BOTH find out. It just takes time, hound dogs...

I dunno where my wife got such a strong tendency to 'mind her own business'--she even tells me to 'mind my own business' when I am helping people on here, either posting, in PC or especially on the phone. I think she fears I'll screw somebody up and we'll end up with a bad marriage on our conscience or worse....She's TOO damn nice to be spoiled by this place. (I hope!!)

[piglett]

 I think she fears I'll screw somebody up

don't worry many of us are already screw up 

pig

[thekfc]

don't worry many of us are already screw up 

pig

What do you mean by many?

We are all screwed up one way or the other.

[jm21-2]

We would like to move to another country, but the reality is you need a lot of money. Food is not all that much cheaper (assuming we keep relatively the same eating habits) and housing similar in comfort to modern housing in the US or Taiwan is not really all that much less expensive either. Eating out can be a lot cheaper but good quality groceries not that much. Housing can be cheaper but if you're in a hot country you're going to want AC and the internet and other amenities. The biggest savings would be being able to have a scooter instead of a car.

We have closely looked at a lot of places and you could maybe do it on $15k a year at minimum (in current dollars) and be comfortable. That would be in an apartment or very small house outside of town and very few leisure activities or travel. If you look at future inflation that means you have to save a boatload of money though. By the time we were 70 it would probably cost close to $100k/year. Also you wouldn't get any benefit from Medicare or Medicaid, which are the biggest government freebies.

If she hates the weather here in a couple years we might try living abroad for 1-2 years and me trying some internet businesses. Neither of us thinks the lifestyle in the US is anything special.

[euforia51]

Screwed up: and this may be a little off topic but I realized a day or two ago I had spent way too much energy worrying about the dangers of going to Medellin over Christmas only to have one of the best times of my life. And then to come back and hear about some nitwit killing 6 people and injuring 14 at a gathering in an Arizona supermarket a few days after my return.

Again, Jeff S says it best "best is only what's best for you"

[euforia51]

For what it's worth, my wife does not like America as much as I thought she would ...

This is a huge contrast to her neighborhood in Colombia. Everybody knows everybody very well. People frequently visit other people on the block and spend time in their homes. They share their stories with almost everyone in the neighborhood. In fact, sometimes the entire street is like one big party. Then she comes to my town and it's like a ghost town compared to hers. Hundreds of people live in my neighborhood but I couldn't tell you the first name of the person living three housed away from me. We know our immediate neighbors well, but that's it. This is very strange to her, and somewhat depressing, but she is getting used to it.

I would think this is a pretty important dynamic that must be considered when considering a foreign woman. After all, the last thing I would want for my woman is for her to "just get used to" life here in the U.S. especially when it's not nearly as lively as where she grew up. My girl's street is lively like this ... and my neighborhood sounds a lot like yours. It's a huge contrast indeed that would take some effort in order to make a successful adjustment.

[JimD]

jm21-2 I don´t know what country you´re referring to but in Colombia that 15k would be (almost miserably) bare bones for most gringos. More acceptable of course for Europeans. A more realistic number for the average gringo would be 40-60k.

[Colgando]

hey is_he_real tell us more. How are the women in Liberia? I bet there are some beauties. What´s their attitude towards American men and do you think there is good wife potential there for us?

Also two hundred a month for four or more employees is pretty good. Does that include health benifits? In Colombia you´d pay something over three hundred for just one employee with all legal benifits.

Well, the women are very poor and uneducated but they are God fearing, happy and joyful, I suspect it is in large part because that is all the hope they have, there is no money or much hope for a better life to aspire to, unemployment is 80%, those that are employed, $75 a month would be an excellent wage. There are squatters all over the properties, houses have been gutted and stripped.  There is no electrical grid, sewer system, the roads are terrible to impassable, this is what over a decade of war will do. People have to use generators for power.  The country just came out of a civil war 5 or so years ago.  Health care was non-existent 5 years ago but improving now, diseases, sickness and infections are common place. At night, the city is pitch black, no lights.  Food is in limited supply for many people, they are in good shape if they get one meal a day.  And I mean, this describes the majority of the population.  The country is improving, I think it will take a generation to get back to where it was before the war, if not more.  On the other hand, $1,000 US a month, a person can live like a King, but it is so sad to see people live in this condition.  However, they are more happy, joyful and grateful in general than many people I know who have the basics, clean water, electricity, food, shelter and all the luxuries and amenities of the US. The culture is very similar to latin america, macho. There are beautiful women, but sadly, I am not compatible with them and it is risky business, a lot of prostitution.

[jm21-2]

jm21-2 I don´t know what country you´re referring to but in Colombia that 15k would be (almost miserably) bare bones for most gringos. More acceptable of course for Europeans. A more realistic number for the average gringo would be 40-60k.

We are young and not materialistic. Taiwanese in particular are real pros about living frugally too. We would probably settle down in a smaller town in Thailand or Vietnam (assuming their relative COL remains about the same). I don't make $60k now and I have a house, BMW, boat, flew on 3 trips to Asia this year, it's not so bad. After my fiance gets here will probably sell the boat and our total living expenses (including mortgage, not including student loan payments or saving) will probably be about $1,700-1,800 per month. An American English teacher in Thailand gets paid about $800-1,000. They survive alright for the most part.

I think China is probably cheaper though, except maybe for housing, but too much pollution in most of it. English teachers there can make as little as $700/month. Most comment that the lifestyle is better on $700 per month in China than $2,000 per month in S. Korea.

It seems like Colombia would be more difficult to "live like a local" due to much more violent crime.

The English teacher salaries may have changed a bit as the dollar devalues. It's been a year or so since I looked at them much.

[JimmySTLOUIS]

lots of good replies here

the one point that some are missing is maybe the Latin culture is the best for the GIRL.

just throwing that out there

TE AMO PERU!

Jim

[Jeff S]

jm21-2 I don´t know what country you´re referring to but in Colombia that 15k would be (almost miserably) bare bones for most gringos. More acceptable of course for Europeans. A more realistic number for the average gringo would be 40-60k.

REALLY? That's astounding! My father lives fine in Mexico for under $1000 a month and that's a full house with courtyard, fruit trees, garage, maid, high speed internet, etc. He doesn't do a whole lot of partying or the nightclub circuit, but he eats great and has his fun. That's for one person though

I'd think you could live fine anywhere not on the coasts or major cities of the US for $50K/yr. In rural Japan, half that would be plenty, and in Argentina, Uruguay or many of the other places I've spent time in LA, 18-20K would be plenty for two - unless of course you lived in nice hotels and ate in fancy restaurants. When did Colombia get that expensive?

Anyway JM, with 1500/mo in Vietnam or rural Thailand, you'd live the life of Riley.

[piglett]

Anyway JM, with 1500/mo in Vietnam or rural Thailand, you'd live the life of Riley.

the 1st chick i was chatting with was from Vietnam , she lived in the city & made about $75 a month & had a collage degree. A friend on mine had a brand new house built in the city rite down the street from a big hospital & when it was all said & done i think he had something like 30k-40k in it & it was 3 stories tall. that is how they build the houses there because the lots are so narrow they just go up, plenty of room up there.


pig

[ignorante]

I don't make $60k now.

  Need to step up your law firm's marketing . . .