Define Americanized...

[euforia51]

I've been thinking about this word for a while. And while I'm pretty sure I have a good idea what it is. In short, I look at it as being a preventable disease. But I want to hear some different opinions and view points. The married guys can chime in and give us all some valuable insight as well.

Has your wife or girlfriend become Americanized?
How could you prevent such a thing from happening, assuming you could?
Have any arguments you've had been because you felt your girlfriend or spouse is/was Americanized?
Should a guy pursuing a foreign relationship be afraid? Very afraid?  

[Bill_McC]

Lacking any experience, this is an opinion only. I've given it considerable thought but it's still only my opinion.

If you bring a foreign national to the US. I would EXPECT them to become Americanized to an extent. Anything else would mean that you've kept them locked up in a closet. They're going to be exposed to American television, shopping, food, night life etc. Now if you're talking strictly about the travisty that American women have become then I think you have something to be concerned about. However, I don't think its a huge concern if you've chosen her properly, if you've chosen your friends carefully, and she chooses her friends carefully. She is going to change simply by being exposed to a totally different society but her core values, her attitude toward family life and her morals shouldn't change if shes the right one and you've married for the right reasons.

Bill

[pchip]

There's a similar thread on the Asian side, you might want to look it up:

http://www.planet-love.com/forum/index.php?topic=5858.msg72571#msg72571

[Researcher]

    Americanized:An overwhelming(and undeserved) feeling of entitlement and superiority simply because one has a vagina.


   Researcher

[Alabamaboy!]

Not an all inclusive list but some things I can think of off the top of my head: when they become more interested in their career than the family, when they are more interested in their 401 K plan than the relationship, when they are "cooking" with the use of more frozen/prepared foods than by cooking from scratch, when they want to trade in their 2 year old car because someone at work has a nicer car and they want one too, when they start wearing sweat pants to the mall and to the airport, when they are working like a dog in their career and use 90% of their salary to pay for their car payment and someone to take care of their home and children for them, when they start using one credit card to pay off another one, when they are too "tired" to make love, when they start getting a diva attitude with you in front of other people, when their body weight increases more than 50% from when you met her, when their favorite "hobby" is going to the casinos, when they trade in their sexy tangas for "granny panties", when they would rather go on vacation to Disney Land than a trip back to their home country, when they start watching Sex in the City, when they start wearing more pants than skirts or dresses.

[Bob_S]

Has your wife or girlfriend become Americanized?

*sigh*  Yes.  She started using a gas dryer instead of a clothes line. 

How could you prevent such a thing from happening, assuming you could?

Don't bring over a child bride who is still growing and developing.  Marry a grown mature woman who has sufficient life experience to have a solid sense of herself and will feel no need to change to gain acceptance from unhealthy peers who may try to lure her into their coven.

Should a guy pursuing a foreign relationship be afraid? Very afraid?  

Not if you follow the above.       

[Woody]

Americanized: When her thought process becomes self-centered and no longer family-centered.

[utopiacowboy]

I think most guys would want her to become somewhat Americanized to the extent of learning English etc. Be careful what you wish for, you may end up with someone who remains so un-Americanized that she never learns English.

[euforia51]

Yeah, I did a search on the word Americanized yesterday and nothing came up. But pchip reminded me I had read a recent thread like this before. I just didn't remember where when I posted the question. I don't spend much time in the Asian section.

Researcher: Funny! (and not far off base either) 

I think this will probably happen to some extent depending on how much bad TV she would be watching during the day. And this assuming she would be at home at first with nothing to do while you're at work. Maybe she'd get addicted to Internet porn while you were off working ... not that this would necessarily be a bad thing.

Seriously, I suppose even a good woman with solid core values could become tainted. Look what happens to some people who win the lottery or stumble onto some wealth. Look at some professional athletes! It's extreme but possible. A small price to pay for living the dream in the USA.

[Jeff S]

Being Americanized is not a bad thing. Taking on a carpet muncher, male bashing, post feminist attitude, and becoming overly materialistic certainly is, though. My wife has not taken on any of the latter in 25 years.

[thekfc]

Americanized:
Watch the Gossip Girls, shop at Neiman Marcus, drinks martini every weekends with friends, eat wild salmon once a week and sleep on Siberian White Goose Down Comforter in the winter & on Silk sheets in the summer.

just kidding guys 

[vallenatoman]

HI Euf--

you know i just read your Trip report....and i saw some of your responses to my posts.

Very interesting time for you!

Well i think believe if or not becomming AMERICAN-IZED is different for different cultures. I wont pretend to be an expert...

but i think with Colombians it seems becomming american-ized is when they start taking for granted the wonderful thingd about their culture.

I mentioned in a post about a friend who had a friend who got married quite a few years ago... well the groom was colombian american from miami born here.

She was literally (off the boat)... welll

I actually was invited by my friend to their childs birthday not long ago (which fired me to think about getting me a colombiana even more!).

Well the lady is def different.

She really acts alot like an american girl acts.... from way of speaking to more reserved and a bit distant.

man i rememebr back then she was happy and loca in a good way.



I actuallyu thought about "dam i really noticing changes" and im sure i was.

Now its not bad in the sense i guess you have to try to fit in.

But i think theres GOOD American-izing and bad americanizing.

Im sorry id like to say ALL AMERICANS ARE THE SAME AND EQUAL EVERYWHERE.

but the fact is thats untrue.

Certain parts of the USA are known for being "kinder and gentler with familial hospitality (very much like colombia mind you).

And some parts of the USA are known as COLD and calculating--distant and wil run  you over without a thot if they dont know you..


I have heard his from visitors too.

So i think what KIND of americanization and how much may depend on where she settles in the USA>

Just what i have seen.

[vallenatoman]

Sorry sometimes the box i type in acts weird.

Anyway, i wanted to add:

There is a type of americanization YOU DONT WANT.

Now this may seem mean but i HAVE seen it. i saw it in college.

SO there was some students from south america studying some english courses here.

Well of course its a college so some run into me and i did some english practice for spanish trade since i had spanish classes.

Some of the girls found an american girl(s).

Well long story short....when they arrived the girls were the fun loving fun colombians i have heard about many times on this board.

the ones that seemed to spend alot of time with what i came to find out was a feminist type american girl...really developed a bad attitude.

This was over a year. now i am not talking about "opening your mind to other cultures" stuff..... they really even put off their fellow group members from colombia to where

the colombians didnt invite the few girls to their goodbye party.

At the time  i didnt fully understand but after many years and experiences and reading this and other places i do now.

So it really is WHO and WHERE the americanizing is done.


I NEVER would stand for my new lady to have a feminist influence i think its negative.... theres being equal than theres the feminist  stuff.

i think thats what you mean not sure.

[Veracity]

*sigh*  Yes.  She started using a gas dryer instead of a clothes line. 
Don't bring over a child bride who is still growing and developing.  Marry a grown mature woman who has sufficient life experience to have a solid sense of herself and will feel no need to change to gain acceptance from unhealthy peers who may try to lure her into their coven.
Not if you follow the above.       

Yes, you're probably right.
Would you put the age cut-off at 25?

[z_k_g]

Sorry sometimes the box i type in acts weird.

Anyway, i wanted to add:

There is a type of americanization YOU DONT WANT.

Now this may seem mean but i HAVE seen it. i saw it in college.

SO there was some students from south america studying some english courses here.

Well of course its a college so some run into me and i did some english practice for spanish trade since i had spanish classes.

Some of the girls found an american girl(s).

Well long story short....when they arrived the girls were the fun loving fun colombians i have heard about many times on this board.

the ones that seemed to spend alot of time with what i came to find out was a feminist type american girl...really developed a bad attitude.

This was over a year. now i am not talking about "opening your mind to other cultures" stuff..... they really even put off their fellow group members from colombia to where

the colombians didnt invite the few girls to their goodbye party.

At the time  i didnt fully understand but after many years and experiences and reading this and other places i do now.

So it really is WHO and WHERE the americanizing is done.


I NEVER would stand for my new lady to have a feminist influence i think its negative.... theres being equal than theres the feminist  stuff.

i think thats what you mean not sure.

I think this is a key observation and very on point.

I'd like to add a bit more to the discussion.

If you choose correctly and establish a strong relationship with your wife, the possibility of any person steering her in "their" direction is lessened.

A person who is weak minded will follow anyone who talks to them for 10 minutes after make a convincing argument.  Not good.

During the dating and courting process, you have to make a good choice, look at her friends, family, hobbies and wants and likes.  Listen, observe and learn her habits.  This is why a 1 to 2 year courting process is the best. 

You can pick out tendencies of your potential mate to be influenced by those around her, primarily family, friends or the neighborhood gossip.

Age is not a primary factor.  In fact, a younger woman may be more strong willed and independent than an older woman, it really depends on the individual. 

Does a 26 yo older and have more life experiences than a 22 yo, yes of course, that is the benefit of age, we learn.  But a persons core personality traits are pretty much set in stone when they are 13 or 14, and after that its just a matter of getting older. 
Age does not equal maturity, good decision making or even wisdom for that matter.

Negative Indicators:
If your woman is following her friends advice over yours, allowing other people to determine her happiness, always seeking someone else's approval after you both have agreed, etc, then she will probably end up in the clutches of the first feminist that she meets.  You won't have a chance once she hits the states.

Positive Indicators:
However, if your woman trusts your judgment, follows your lead, seeks your advice and guidance and accepts your wisdom and authority to make the final decision in the relationship, you have an excellent foundation to build a relationship.

The key is making the right choice and looking for the right indicators. This process takes time and patience.  Picking a life mate should not be done in 6 months, you should take a minimum 18 months of observation and checking and rechecking the indicators.

If you have a problem, and you see all of the negative indicators, act quickly, end it. You don't want to fall in love, rely on wishful thinking and hope everything will be "ok" once you spend time with her. 

Zulu

[Jeff S]

Age is not a primary factor.  In fact, a younger woman may be more strong willed and independent than an older woman, it really depends on the individual. 

Does a 26 yo older and have more life experiences than a 22 yo, yes of course, that is the benefit of age, we learn.  But a persons core personality traits are pretty much set in stone when they are 13 or 14, and after that its just a matter of getting older. 

Age does not equal maturity, good decision making or even wisdom for that matter.

[z_k_g]

    Americanized:An overwhelming(and undeserved) feeling of entitlement and superiority simply because one has a vagina.


   Researcher

Nicely put.

Zulu

[euforia51]

Zulu, you make some very good points here that I have never considered in all of my years. I mean I was aware of a woman's behavior around her friends and family but I never consciously idenitified it beyond knowing whether I could accept and/or tolerate it or not.

Ideally, 18 months of courtship is an acceptable amount of time to determine if one is compatible. However, men who are upwards in their years, say 40's and up, and men who are seriously considering foreign brides as life partners, do not have 18 months to throw away, so to speak. Herein lies the rub ... take an extended amount of time with a potential mate, or hasten the process a little and take a gamble it is a good choice.

Regardless of the amount of time, as you put it so well, "if you have a problem, and you see all of the negative indicators, act quickly, end it. You don't want to fall in love, rely on wishful thinking and hope everything will be "ok" once you spend time with her."

[Colgando]

Very insightful Z_K_G, I differ on you on one assertion you made with the time limit of minimum 18 months. My thinking is that it is a function of experiences and situations rather than time.  Of course, time allows for the experiences and different situations.  Long distance, international relationships make this even more challenging I think since it is more difficult to run across the variety of experiences and situations one could if the relationship was based domestically.  Everything else you said is well taken with me.

[Researcher]

Age is not a primary factor.  In fact, a younger woman may be more strong willed and independent than an older woman, it really depends on the individual. 

Does a 26 yo older and have more life experiences than a 22 yo, yes of course, that is the benefit of age, we learn.  But a persons core personality traits are pretty much set in stone when they are 13 or 14, and after that its just a matter of getting older. 
Age does not equal maturity, good decision making or even wisdom for that matter.

      I have to disagree somewhat.


http://www.dartmouth.edu/~news/releases/2006/02/06.html

 According to this source:The brain of an 18-year-old college freshman is still far from resembling the brain of someone in their mid-twenties.


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/22/magazine/22Adulthood-t.html?pagewanted=all

  According to the above source:The scientists found the children’s brains were not fully mature until at least 25.

The prefrontal part is the part that allows you to control your impulses, come up with a long-range strategy, answer the question ‘What am I going to do with my life?’ ” he told me. “That weighing of the future keeps changing into the 20s and 30s.”



     I remember sitting in a general psychology class and hearing the professor say that we change well into our 20s. But enough of studies on the brain and psychology.That stuff is pretty boring.Not wanting your wife to become "Americanized" in a negative way is a real concern.Bringing an 18 or 19 year old to the US does not work to one's advantage,IMHO.I think age is a factor.

     While Filipinas may seem mature at a young age it is probably due to their environment and up bringing.If that's the case then it would be best to move there and marry them instead of taking them out of that environment.They will be influenced unless you are going to keep them locked up.(at least until they are 25)

     I'm not saying that there aren't exceptions.IMHO, marrying someone that young just makes a risky venture even more risky.

   Researcher

     


     


   

[Jeff S]

Yes, people are still changing into their 20s but absent some traumatic event or addiction, almost never does it change for the wilder or less committed. Yes, I get that one might want to be a social worker at 20 but lose interest in helping the clueless and decide they'd rather be a chef in their mid 20s, but how many very together 20 year olds decide they want to turn into party animals in their mid 20s? I'd say only those with weak convictions at the onset (maturity issues.) You're right about the difference between "seeming mature" and actual maturity.

[z_k_g]

Researcher,

What are you disagreeing with exactly?

This was my statement:

Does a 26 yo older and have more life experiences than a 22 yo, yes of course, that is the benefit of age, we learn.  But a persons core personality traits are pretty much set in stone when they are 13 or 14, and after that its just a matter of getting older.  
Age does not equal maturity, good decision making or even wisdom for that matter.

Core personality traits, ego, self image, is not brain development, personality is purely mental (your conscious and unconscious mind) whereas brain development, learning and remembering is purely physical, complete opposites.  

There is no measurement of personality, self image or ego, only observation.  Sigmund Freud was a pioneer in this type of observation and study of the conscious and unconscious mind.

In fact some psychologist insist that children develop the core personality traits, ego or self image in the womb by listening to music, etc.  The consensus is age 5 to 8 for most psychologists.  

From my experience in working with young teens, I think core personality is set in stone by age 13 or 14.

You list some great references on brain development, however.

Zulu

[z_k_g]

Very insightful Z_K_G, I differ on you on one assertion you made with the time limit of minimum 18 months. My thinking is that it is a function of experiences and situations rather than time.  Of course, time allows for the experiences and different situations.  Long distance, international relationships make this even more challenging I think since it is more difficult to run across the variety of experiences and situations one could if the relationship was based domestically.  Everything else you said is well taken with me.

IZ,

By default you are looking at probably 18 months (initial meeting, chatting, cam, 1 or 2 trips, immigration/visas) before she lands on the shores of the good old USA.

So this time period is not really under your control anyways. 

Some guys have done the entire process in less than 12 months, 8 even, but I think 18 is a good safe guess estimate time from start to finish, with a few hiccups built in that typically happen.

Zulu

[jm21-2]

You have obviously not been in much contact with 13-14 year olds recently if you think all their core values are set. If their core values were set, there would probably be no human race by now, unless your "core values" are limited to desiring food and water.

Also bear in mind that a lot of mental illnesses are not apparent until late teens/early 20's. These can be very serious diseases and no symptoms until they start.

[euforia51]

By default you are looking at probably 18 months (initial meeting, chatting, cam, 1 or 2 trips, immigration/visas) before she lands on the shores of the good old USA.

Ahh ... and now I see the 18 months. I was thinking this time was before one would even consider the visa process.