Define Americanized...

[Colgando]

Ok Z_K_G, that makes sense, I was thinking more on the lines of 18 months until you decided she was the one for you not to include immigration and visa times.  This is a lengthy process, I was just thinking about using the substance of the experiences to make a decision on if she is the one, rather than an arbitrary time line like some saying you have to date a girl at least X amount of months or years before you ask her to marry you.

[Researcher]

Yes, people are still changing into their 20s but absent some traumatic event or addiction, almost never does it change for the wilder or less committed. Yes, I get that one might want to be a social worker at 20 but lose interest in helping the clueless and decide they'd rather be a chef in their mid 20s, but how many very together 20 year olds decide they want to turn into party animals in their mid 20s? I'd say only those with weak convictions at the onset (maturity issues.) You're right about the difference between "seeming mature" and actual maturity.

   What I am talking about here is making life decisions.The part of the brain that deals with that isn't fully developed until age 25.Now, I don't know what that has to do with partying  but hey that is one possible life decision an 18 y/o wife could make when she is taken away from her culture and family.My point is that it has been proven that the life decision part of the brain isn't fully developed by age 25.So don't be surprised if a 21 y/o married to a 45 y/o doesn't wake up one day and decide she wants to start a family with someone closer to her own age.Unless you keep her in a vacuum she probably will be influenced by the culture here in the US.

  Researcher

[Researcher]

Researcher,

What are you disagreeing with exactly?

This was my statement:

Core personality traits, ego, self image, is not brain development, personality is purely mental (your conscious and unconscious mind) whereas brain development, learning and remembering is purely physical, complete opposites.  

There is no measurement of personality, self image or ego, only observation.  Sigmund Freud was a pioneer in this type of observation and study of the conscious and unconscious mind.

In fact some psychologist insist that children develop the core personality traits, ego or self image in the womb by listening to music, etc.  The consensus is age 5 to 8 for most psychologists.  

From my experience in working with young teens, I think core personality is set in stone by age 13 or 14.

You list some great references on brain development, however.

Zulu

  The part of your statement that I disagree with is the part that you didn't copy.The simple statement that "age is not a primary factor". I disagree. If the part of the brain that we use to make life decisions isn't developed until 25, how can an 18 y/o decide how they want to live tier life? What does personality have to do with that decision also?

    Many young adults change their minds several times about what they want out of life.They can be fully committed to one thing one day then completely change directions the next.So, yes age is a primary factor,IMHO.

    Sigmund Freud is old news.Psychology these days is about studying the brain and more has been learned over the past 12 years (about psychology) by studying the brain and brain development.


    Researcher

[z_k_g]

  The part of your statement that I disagree with is the part that you didn't copy.The simple statement that "age is not a primary factor". I disagree.

    Researcher

Ok, I was responding to the items you highlighted from my post.

We disagree.  I think age is not a primary factor. 

I think its 4th or maybe 5th on the list of critical factors for a successful and healthy relationship.

1. Mutual Faith in God defining core ethics and morals
2. Mutual Love and Empathy
3. Good Interpersonal Communication with Problem and Conflict Resolution skills
4. Mutual Respect for each others strengths, responsibilities and weaknesses
5. Common Relationship Goals
6. Maturity and acceptance of personal responsibility
7. Dedication and faithfulness to the relationship

There are others, but this is my list of priority items in order of importance.  Age is not explicit but is represented in factors 4 and 5.

Just my opinion.

Zulu

[z_k_g]

Ahh ... and now I see the 18 months. I was thinking this time was before one would even consider the visa process.

I think that 12 months (18 months would be the ideal time) would be the minimum time I would want to interact with a person before I felt fully vested in her and the likelihood of a successful relationship.

As far as the visa/immigration process is concerned, that time varies, you could possibly meet a woman, marry and have her with you in 6 to 8 months if everything went like clockwork.

Just not enough time to deal with the vacillations of a relationship in my opinion and easier to end up with a woman who is a vessel waiting to be filled with all bad things American.

Zulu

[Researcher]

Ok, I was responding to the items you highlighted from my post.

We disagree.  I think age is not a primary factor. 

I think its 4th or maybe 5th on the list of critical factors for a successful and healthy relationship.

1. Mutual Faith in God defining core ethics and morals
2. Mutual Love and Empathy
3. Good Interpersonal Communication with Problem and Conflict Resolution skills
4. Mutual Respect for each others strengths, responsibilities and weaknesses
5. Common Relationship Goals
6. Maturity and acceptance of personal responsibility
7. Dedication and faithfulness to the relationship

There are others, but this is my list of priority items in order of importance.  Age is not explicit but is represented in factors 4 and 5.

Just my opinion.

Zulu

   I did highlight where you wrote "age is not a primary factor".
Age can be a primary factor if the woman is 18.She is not a fully developed(mentally) adult.At least not enough to make the decision of marriage.

  Other than that, I agree with you.

    Researcher
 

[z_k_g]

You have obviously not been in much contact with 13-14 year olds recently if you think all their core values are set. If their core values were set, there would probably be no human race by now, unless your "core values" are limited to desiring food and water.

Also bear in mind that a lot of mental illnesses are not apparent until late teens/early 20's. These can be very serious diseases and no symptoms until they start.

Jm,

Core values I define as knowing whats right and wrong, possessing a sense of fairness or unfairness. Are you essentially happy, sad, depressed or angry.  Is  your self esteem high, fluctuates or low.  There are many other core values that I am leaving out, but that's what I'm referring too.

These core values determine everything that we do in our lives, from studying, criminal activities, running a marathon or reading a book.  

Our phobias are derived from these core values and are the invisible hands that guide us until we die.

As far as mental illnesses are concerned, I think they are the manifestation of physical brain issues (malfunctions) you are born with that are combined with emotional, mental and physical trauma.  I'm not an expert in this area, but this comes from my observations and discussions with mental health professionals that I know and dealing with many young adults.

Mental illness has little to do with your age per se and can manifest itself at age 3 or age 93.  

I've worked with hundreds of young men and women, ages 10 to 15, since I was 18.  

I've worked with at risk youth, mentally challenged, pregnant mothers, gang bangers, and just regular middle class kids.  I volunteer as a tutor, mentor, youth organizer, and coach sports.  I am actively involved in incarcerated youth back to work initiatives, work release programs and a youth advocate to juvenile court.  I've worked with Adopt a school programs for over 20 years and tutor in math, physics and science.

Zulu

[Researcher]

   I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade.If a guy wants to go out and find himself a young wife I say go for it.But when it comes to thinking about whether or not a woman will change and become "Americanized" the fact that the young ones are more prone to change shouldn't be ignored.They may not change for the better.In my experience with the young ones is that they always change around the age of 21 or 22.Modern research seems to back that up.I know that for me, the thought of my wife becoming "Americanized" isn't appealing at all.I hope she stays the same always.But as Albert Einstein said " Men marry women hoping that they won't change and women marry men hoping they will change.Ultimately both are disappointed."

 


    Researcher

[z_k_g]

    Sigmund Freud is old news.Psychology these days is about studying the brain and more has been learned over the past 12 years (about psychology) by studying the brain and brain development.


    Researcher

I think Freud's body of work speaks for itself, his observations using psychoanalysis are the foundation of modern psychology.  His work was revolutionary and he set the standards in a profession that was marred with fakes, black magic, exorcism and demons.

His work, psychoanalysis, and the work of many others transformed the hidden shame of of the "crazy" house to a science and study of mental illness.

Today most of his observations have been proven erroneous and invalid, not to mention his rampant personal drug abuse of every hallucination and narcotic known at the time.

But it doesn't completely invalidate his good work, and most importantly he and others changed our view of mentally illness and the mentally ill forever and for the good I think.

Zulu

[z_k_g]

   I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade.If a guy wants to go out and find himself a young wife I say go for it.But when it comes to thinking about whether or not a woman will change and become "Americanized" the fact that the young ones are more prone to change shouldn't be ignored.They may not change for the better.In my experience with the young ones is that they always change around the age of 21 or 22.Modern research seems to back that up.I know that for me, the thought of my wife becoming "Americanized" isn't appealing at all.I hope she stays the same always.But as Albert Einstein said " Men marry women hoping that they won't change and women marry men hoping they will change.Ultimately both are disappointed."

 


    Researcher

Researcher,

I totally agree.

You should marry a woman that completes you and never because of her age.

Zulu

[jm21-2]

Many problems develop late teens/early 20's. My dad was a social worker and always complained about how unfair it was because it was that if the patient joined the military for the typical 4-year stint after high school they would get a great retirement (military disability) when the illness started, and if they just had normal lives they'd have a paltry SSI check. There are certain types of diseases that manifest in adolescents, certain ones in late teens, certain ones in early 20's. Most all hit before 25.

[Researcher]

I think Freud's body of work speaks for itself, his observations using psychoanalysis are the foundation of modern psychology.  His work was revolutionary and he set the standards in a profession that was marred with fakes, black magic, exorcism and demons.

His work, psychoanalysis, and the work of many others transformed the hidden shame of of the "crazy" house to a science and study of mental illness.

Today most of his observations have been proven erroneous and invalid, not to mention his rampant personal drug abuse of every hallucination and narcotic known at the time.

But it doesn't completely invalidate his good work, and most importantly he and others changed our view of mentally illness and the mentally ill forever and for the good I think.

Zulu

is
  When I took psychology in college the textbook had about a page on ol' Sigmund.I think he is studies more in History class than psychology. His work is compared to astronomy before the invention of the telescope.So much more is now known about human psychology and how the brain works.


  Researcher

[piglett]

Ok, I was responding to the items you highlighted from my post.

We disagree.  I think age is not a primary factor. 

I think its 4th or maybe 5th on the list of critical factors for a successful and healthy relationship.

1. Mutual Faith in God defining core ethics and morals
2. Mutual Love and Empathy
3. Good Interpersonal Communication with Problem and Conflict Resolution skills
4. Mutual Respect for each others strengths, responsibilities and weaknesses
5. Common Relationship Goals
6. Maturity and acceptance of personal responsibility
7. Dedication and faithfulness to the relationship

There are others, but this is my list of priority items in order of importance.  Age is not explicit but is represented in factors 4 and 5.

Just my opinion.

Zulu

I would like to add
8. she has a smokin hot body 
pig

[z_k_g]

I would like to add
8. she has a smokin hot body 
pig

I love you man!!   

Only a Pig would say that!!!

Zulu

[piglett]

I love you man!!   

Only a Pig would say that!!!

Zulu

that is part of my job here
If i don't point out these shallow sexist thing who will??

your porkness
pig