First foreigner EVER to be convicted in Colombia on pedophile charges

[mudd]

 

[mudd]

Yes, by international treaty, 18 is the age of consent for sex, period.

Doesn't matter about your state law, when you leave the USA, its 18 if you visit a foreign country, and it doesn't matter about local laws, statues or customs concerning age of consent of the country you are visiting, etc.
However, I am not sure about marriage under the same circumstances, if the female is under 18.  There may be some exceptions for parental consent.  But I think they included provisions in the treaty to prevent the marriage of child brides moving across boarders, not sure tho.
If you are jailed and sentenced in the foreign country, you will serve your sentence there and then you will be deported and be charged here also. 
If found guilty of course you will serve time in the states.

thats what i thoguht,  i hope some day, a few guys in medellin are busted and made an example out of and go to jail as sex offenders.  one can only hope

[thekfc]

The Law concerning (1) Travel With Intent To Engage in Illicit Sexual Conduct & ( 2) Engaging in Illicit Sexual Conduct in Foreign Places

A person who travels in interstate commerce or travels into the United States, or a United States citizen or an alien admitted for permanent residence in the United States who travels in foreign commerce, for the purpose of engaging (or engages) in any illicit sexual conduct with another person shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both.


Also although each state have their own age of consent law - there is also a Federal age of consent law. Zulu wasn't making himself clear - I was there patiently waiting for him to say that or to recite a quote or something from The Protection Act.

[ignorante]

Under Federal law 18 U.S.C. 2243 and 18 U.S.C. 2423 it is an offense for any person to cross state lines or international borders with the intent of having commercial sex with a person who is under 18, or any sex with a person who is under 16, or 12 to 15 and at least 4 years younger than the perpetrator

[Ray]

Also although each state have their own age of consent law - there is also a Federal age of consent law. Zulu wasn't making himself clear - I was there patiently waiting for him to say that or to recite a quote or something from The Protection Act.

Yes, every state has different laws with differing ages of consent. And Federal law on statutory rape uses age 16 I believe, not 18. I believe that the majority of states also use the age of 16 which means that you cannot be charges with statutory rape by having consensual sex with a girl over 16.

Some states have a higher age, as in California, where the age of consent is 18, and some states have lower ages, as low as 14.

I guess Zulu has chosen to ignore any and all evidence posted to refute his erroneous “facts” and he seems to be making up laws as he goes… 

Ray

[z_k_g]

Yes, every state has different laws with differing ages of consent. And Federal law on statutory rape uses age 16 I believe, not 18. I believe that the majority of states also use the age of 16 which means that you cannot be charges with statutory rape by having consensual sex with a girl over 16.

Some states have a higher age, as in California, where the age of consent is 18, and some states have lower ages, as low as 14.

I guess Zulu has chosen to ignore any and all evidence posted to refute his erroneous “facts” and he seems to be making up laws as he goes… 

Ray

Ray,

I need to defend my position.

The statues listed in the link concerning age of consent in the US are not all of the law, just a summary. 

Each state has various other new laws, statues, ordinances and community codes to limit anyone over 18 from having sex with a minor (under 18). 

They may not be charged with statutory in all cases, I concede that point, but there are many many other charges at the DA's disposal that have been implemented by legislatures over the last 10 years the are just as serious and carry significant jail time and the pedophile stamp.

So yes, you may not be charged with statutory if she is 16, but odds are you will be hit with some other charge that will land you in jail and branded.

Need a few facts?

Because of the climate of our country, they vigorously prosecute, when the relationships are revealed, between teachers, coaches or "persons in position of authority".  These new laws cover students with ages even over 18 (if the person is in school) and have been implemented in almost every state in some form or another. 

This is just one example of laws that supersede the "age of consent" statutes that have been cited for the 50 states.

In Mississippi the law "requires" that an adult report sexual activity of a minor (under 18) if you don't you can be arrested and charged (Passed in 2009).  So after your date with the 16 year old student, who is of the age of consent, if you happen to have a quickie and don't tell the cops, you can be arrested and get a nice sexual battery charge just for good measure?  Now that's a serious Catch-22!

There are many more examples.

The new statutes all have the same purpose, to protect minor and to ensure that no minor has sex until they are over 18.  They also allow the DA to circumvent the "age of consent" statutes, rendering them useless.

Ray, I am not ignoring the law or the the facts, and I have not invented any facts to prove my point.

Once again, I stand by my position 100%. 

In the USA if you have sexual relations or any type of intimate contact with a person (under 18) and its public and noticeable, you will be arrested and charged with something!

Is this absolute? No, but DA's all over the country are ready and waiting for eager participants to test their resolve.  The investigators use Youtube, facebook, twitter, cell phones and emails to search for any and all possible infractions.

If they can't get them for statutory because the "paramour" is 16 and of the age of consent, then they will charge them with one of the new perv laws in the statute goodie bag. 

Zulu

[Ray]

Zulu, a lot of the stuff you have been putting out as fact is just pure hogwash. I wasn't trying to bust your balls, but only correcting the record.

Examples:

In the US, in all 50 states, any adult over 18, cannot have legal sexual relations, or touching of any type, with a minor of any age, regardless of age difference, period. Doing so, will again, result in a mandatory statutory charge.

Hogwash!

The age of consent only applies to minors and other minors having sex, and within the minimum age difference, in most states, 18 months.

Once again, In the US, in all 50 states, any adult over 18, cannot have legal sexual relations, or touching of any type, with a minor of any age, regardless of age difference, period. Doing so, will again, result in a mandatory statutory charge.

Age of consent has no bearing.

Period.

Hogwash!

My point is if the young sweetie is under 18 and she walks in for a marriage license preggie (yours) you will be escorted to a cell and charged with sexual battery (statutory by another name).

Hogwash!

However....what is absolute....is

In the US, in all 50 states, any adult over 18, cannot have legal sexual relations, or touching of any type, with a minor (under 18), regardless of age difference, period. Doing so, will again, result in a mandatory statutory charge.

Hogwash!

By international treaty (that the US pushed heavily) a minor (Under 18) cannot i.e. "never" legally, agree to consensual sex with an adult. (Over 18) Period.

Hogwash!

You can marry at 15 in Miss, without parental consent, but If you are proven to have had sex with the minor (under 18), BEFORE the marriage, and that would be the case if she walks in preggie at the courthouse to get the license with your kid inside, then you will be arrested.

Hogwash!


My advice: BEFORE you present something as irrefutable fact, look it up to be sure.

Peace,

Ray

[z_k_g]

Ray,

You need to start reading the news.  Hogwash is now the new reality.

I stand corrected on the mandatory statutory charges, I was wrong in all of my statements in this regard.

You are right, there will be no mandatory statutory charges if the person is of the age of consent for that particular state.

However, in my last post, I pointed out that they will get you on some other charge, if she is under 18.

Age of consent will not save you from the legal clutches of the eager DA's and the new laws passed just for that purpose.

With that being said, and corrections made, I stand behind my posts.

Ray here is the the UN Treaty's that the entire world has agreed upon:

UN International treaty establishing 18 as minimum age, if you are under 18, you are a child.
Article 1,
http://www2.ohchr.org/english/law/crc.htm
and Article 34 prohibits illegal sex with that child

This treaty applies to any citizen (of a country that has signed the treaty) who travels abroad to another country.  And, to clarify, this treaty does not effect a person who lives in that country, he/she is only bound by their local age of consent and other relevant statutes.

The Federal statute that defines the illegal sex act and enforces the International treaty for US citizens is
primarily U.S.C. §§ 1591, 2421, 2422, and 2423
http://www.justice.gov/criminal/ceos/trafficking.html

Ray, a child, anyone under 18, cannot legally agree to sex with an adult, over 18.  As a child, defined as one who doesn't posses the full legal rights of the majority, they don't have the capacity to agree.  

Zulu

[thekfc]

UN International treaty establishing 18 as minimum age, if you are under 18, you are a child.
Article 1,
http://www2.ohchr.org/english/law/crc.htm
and Article 34 prohibits illegal sex with that child

This treaty applies to any citizen (of a country that has signed the treaty) who travels abroad to another country.  And, to clarify, this treaty does not effect a person who lives in that country, he/she is only bound by their local age of consent and other relevant statutes.

Convention on the Rights of the Child
The Convention generally defines a child as any human being under the age of eighteen, unless an earlier age of majority is recognized by a country's law.

http://www.unicef.org/crc/index_30229.html
Go all the way down to where it say How does the Convention on the Rights of the Child define a child?

The Declaration of the Rights of the Child have been ratified by every member of the United Nations except Somalia and the United States of America. Somalia have announce plans to ratify it but is currently unable to proceed to ratification as it has no recognized government. By signing the Convention, the United States has signaled its intention to ratify—but has yet to do so.

The Federal statute that defines the illegal sex act and enforces the International treaty for US citizens is
primarily U.S.C. §§ 1591, 2421, 2422, and 2423
http://www.justice.gov/criminal/ceos/trafficking.html

That is what I said earlier  & waiting for you to quote something from The Protection Act.

[ignorante]

However, in my last post, I pointed out that they will get you on some other charge, if she is under 18.

Age of consent will not save you from the legal clutches of the eager DA's and the new laws passed just for that purpose.

Only if you break one of the applicable laws (such as a teacher or policeman or somebody who exercises authority over another). We had a very public flap here in Georgia during the last election over a candidate for Governor and his affair with a teenager (under 18 but over the age of consent).  No charges, because no Georgia law broken. 

I get your point, but you have pushed it too far.  Being emphatic is different from being correct.  Many of the things you say are correct, but the hard and fast 18 rule just does not reflect the state of the law in the United States, at least not in most states.

[z_k_g]

Kfc,

You point out that the "...Convention generally defines a child as any human being under the age of eighteen, unless an earlier age of majority is recognized by a country's law."

(This point is totally incorrect, Article 1 clearly established anyone under 18 to be a child and protected in the treaty, but I will follow your argument anyway)

United States defines 18 as the required age of the majority, we don't live an another country so why point this out?

You point out that the United States Congress has not ratified this agreement, true. But we have signed the agreement, our executive branch, the President, and the federal government enforces the terms via federal statutes.  

So, the age of majority is the US is 18.  The US Federal statutes (listed earlier) are enforced based on International treaty.

What is your question here again?  

Both of your points are correct, and statement of fact, but moot.

Zulu

[z_k_g]

I get your point, but you have pushed it too far.  Being emphatic is different from being correct.  Many of the things you say are correct, but the hard and fast 18 rule just does not reflect the state of the law in the United States, at least not in most states.

Ignorante,

I agree that the hard and fast 18 rule does not reflect the complete law in the United States, I have stated that clearly and was in error.

However, the myriad of laws on the books today have in effect, marginalized, or in some cases eliminated the "age of consent" statues, in law.  You can look at the case that I presented earlier where the young man was not guilty of statutory, but guilty of some other crime.

Emphatic would imply that there is no case law to support my claims, in that case this would just amount to a "what if" discussion. 

However, there are cases with convictions that involve school teachers, coaches, police, and other adults (over 18) who have had sexual relations or contact with a person (under 18) and over the age of consent, who have been charged and convicted. 

Do a quick Google on coaches, teachers, teens , sex, convictions, etc.  Plenty of example to read.

As I have stated, the local DA's are gunning to test out their new statues that most of the public have no clue exists. 

If she/he is under 18, and over the age of consent, the state legislatures have found creative ways to cover that gap, from the age of consent to 18, and do their best to get you some nice jail time.

Zulu

[mudd]

Do a quick Google on coaches, teachers, teens , sex, convictions, etc.  Plenty of example to read.

As I have stated, the local DA's are gunning to test out their new statues that most of the public have no clue exists. 

If she/he is under 18, and over the age of consent, the state legislatures have found creative ways to cover that gap, from the age of consent to 18, and do their best to get you some nice jail time

i would think, some DA would love to take on some American weirdo pedophile getting caught in some foreign country having sex with a girl under 18 years,  just to make a really big example out of him. can you imagine the backlash and bad press.

[z_k_g]

i would think, some DA would love to take on some American weirdo pedophile getting caught in some foreign country having sex with a girl under 18 years,  just to make a really big example out of him. can you imagine the backlash and bad press.

Ignorante,

A local DA has no authority to arrest anyone overseas, his authority ends at the state or county line.

The local police in the country of the offense already do a pretty good job of going after perps; In most cases the outcome is foregone.  Under 18 = jail time and deportation (or a bribe if you got the cash)

That authority to pursue these cases overseas, soley rests with the federal government and its law enforcement agencies based on federal statutes and International treaty agreements, that were quoted earlier.

Based on what I've been reading, these men who have been caught overseas, do not have any domestic support for their activities.

Zulu

[z_k_g]

Facts:

State Statues apply to residents of that State only

Federal Statues apply to residents of every state and US citizens any country outside of our borders.
-Federal Statutes outside our borders can only be enforced via treaty with that particular country, sometimes, it can be covered under an International treaty

International Statues apply to every human (World Court, The Hague)
-Most nations honor these statutes for war crimes, copyright/patents, and adoption, international sex crimes

United Nations- Promulgate International Treaty
-Set standards and allow a legal framework for enforcement for the World Court statutes
-Forum for disputes
-Is not a court of law

[thekfc]

We don't live an another country so why point this out?

I thought that the original point of this discussion was international - foreigner convicted in Columbia.

What is the question here again?  
Zulu

Question for you - based on what you said AND this: "The Declaration of the Rights of the Child" - The Convention defines a child as any human being under the age of eighteen, unless an earlier age of majority is recognized by a country's law.

US Citizen:
(1) Say if the age of majority in Singapore is 19 & the age of Majority in The USA is 18  - "sex act" is committed in Singapore to say with an 18 year old and arrested in Singapore- so conviction by Singapore & not by the USA?

(2) Again age of majority in Scotland is 16 & USA is 18 - "sex act" committed in Scotland with a 17yr old & arrested in Scotland - so conviction by USA but not Scotland?

Where would unless an earlier age of majority is recognized by a country's law falls?
Where would the unless an earlier age of majority is recognized by a country's law come into play?
Do unless an earlier age of majority is recognized by a country's law means anything?
Or just "thrown out" the unless an earlier age of majority is recognized by a country's law & convict/not convict base on the US age of Majority?

[z_k_g]

KFC,

Once again, the age is 18, period- Article 1.

If she is under 18, and you are visiting from Scotland or any other country, and discovered, you will be charged.

The International treaty is written specifically so that the minimum age of 18 cannot be circumvented. 

In other words, for sex involving a person under 18, whatever combination of scenarios you hypothetically come up with will fail.

He/she must be 18.

This was done to ensure that the treaty would be enforced.

Zulu

[thekfc]

KFC,

Once again, the age is 18, period.

Ok as you say - Once again, the age is 18, period. Point take - got it. YES.

Just one more question and this is over - please clarify your answer (and I mean clarify) .

So, say a US citizen is caught having sexual relations with a 18yr old in Singapore  - as per Singapore law that would be breaking the law in Singapore but not the USA. (Age of majority is 19 in Singapore - 18 in the USA)

So even if Singapore want to convict based on Singapore Law - they cannot convict & they cannot enforce their own laws because the age is 18, period.

[z_k_g]

Ok as you say - Once again, the age is 18, period. Point take - got it. YES.

Just one more question and this is over - please clarify your answer (and I mean clarify) .

So, say a US citizen is caught having sexual relations with a 18yr old in Singapore  - as per Singapore law that would be breaking the law in Singapore but not the USA. (Age of majority is 19 in Singapore - 18 in the USA)

So even if Singapore want to convict based on Singapore Law - they cannot convict & they cannot enforce their own laws because the age is 18, period.

Kfc,

This is the test that will answer you question:

1. Local age is of majority 19- Country A
2. Your County age of majority 18- Country B
3. International Treaty 18

If you are citizen of Country A and Visit B then International Treaty applies
If you are citizen of Country B and Visit A then International Treaty applies

The International Treaty makes NO provisions for anyone over 18.

The visitor is a guest of the host country and is bound by the local law, which he must obey.  If the local law is more stringent than the International law, which sometimes is the case, then the visitor obey that law.

Zulu

[thekfc]

Kfc,

This is the test that will answer you question:

1. Local age is of majority 19- Country A
2. Your County age of majority 18- Country B
3. International Treaty 18

If you are citizen of Country A and Visit B then International Treaty applies
If you are citizen of Country B and Visit A then International Treaty applies

The International Treaty makes NO provisions for anyone over 18.

Zulu

You have NOT answered my question.

[z_k_g]

You have NOT answered my question.

KFC,

I answered your question.

The treaty makes no provisions for anyone over 18.

The visitor is a guest of the host country and is bound by the local law, which he must obey.  If the local law is more stringent than the International law, which sometimes is the case, then the visitor must obey that law.

Zulu

[thekfc]

KFC,

I answered your question.

The treaty makes no provisions for anyone over 18.

Is The Convention on the Rights of the Child an International Treaty?

[z_k_g]

Is The Convention on the Rights of the Child an International Treaty?

KFC,

Yes, The United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child is a human rights treaty setting out the civil, political, economic, social, and cultural rights of children.

(The US Delegation actually was the driving force that wrote this legislation but congress will not ratify it)

Zulu

[thekfc]

KFC,

Yes, The United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child is a human rights treaty setting out the civil, political, economic, social, and cultural rights of children.

(The US Delegation actually was the driving force that wrote this legislation but congress will not ratify it)

Zulu

Thanks you very much for that.

Then since The United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child is an International; Treaty - then your the age is 18, period. does not hold true as The United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child stated & I quote The Convention defines a "child" as a person below the age of 18,  unless an earlier age of majority is recognized by a country's law.

Oh wait I am mistaken again, unless an earlier age of majority is recognized by a country's law doesn't mean anything.

You are right - case closed.   

[Ray]

Ray, a child, anyone under 18, cannot legally agree to sex with an adult, over 18. As a child, defined as one who doesn't posses the full legal rights of the majority, they don't have the capacity to agree.

Zulu

Hogwash!

United States defines 18 as the required age of the majority

No, it is 16 under US law!

Ray