First foreigner EVER to be convicted in Colombia on pedophile charges

[fathertime]

I don’t like that the US govt. thinks it has jurisdiction around the world and can tell us how to behave when we are in other countries.  They act like they OWN us.  If a man/woman is travelling to another country, the laws of that country should apply.  We (The USA) don’t own this world and our govt. does not OWN us.    I think the age of consent is too low in other countries, but it doesn’t matter what I think or what the US govt. thinks. 
If a 45 year old went after a 15 year old daughter of mine, he might wind up dead, but in some countries that same man would welcomed and eat dinner with the father of the girl.   Our govt. has no respect for it’s citizens or other belief systems.


Fathertime!

[z_k_g]

I don’t like that the US govt. thinks it has jurisdiction around the world and can tell us how to behave when we are in other countries.  They act like they OWN us.  If a man/woman is travelling to another country, the laws of that country should apply.  We (The USA) don’t own this world and our govt. does not OWN us.    I think the age of consent is too low in other countries, but it doesn’t matter what I think or what the US govt. thinks. 
If a 45 year old went after a 15 year old daughter of mine, he might wind up dead, but in some countries that same man would welcomed and eat dinner with the father of the girl.   Our govt. has no respect for it’s citizens or other belief systems.


Fathertime!

FT,

Not to mention the US banking laws and the IRS (The most powerful government tool in my opinion)

Zulu

[thekfc]

kfc,

If you are a US citizen its 18. Period.

Zulu

Can you explain exactly what do you mean by that?

You are making absolutely, positively no sense.

[z_k_g]

Can you explain exactly what do you mean by that?

You are making absolutely, positively no sense.

Any and all rule of law regarding pinoys and minimum age, etc, absolutely doesen't apply to US citizens.

So, citing extensive Philippine law concerning age of consent is unnecessary, and senseless, because in all cases, it will never apply to you.

No matter what country we (Americans) live in or visit, even as an expat, we have to abide by US law, even if we renounce our citizenship, which is almost an impossible task nowadays.

If you are a US citizen, if you choose to have sex overseas, she must be 18. Period. 

Now does that make absolute, positive sense Kfc?

Zulu

[thekfc]

The rules regarding pinoys don't apply to US citizens. 

Citing extensive Philippine law seems unnecessary, because it will never apply to you.

No matter what country we live in or visit, even as an expat, we have to abide by US law, even if we renounce our citizenship, which is almost an impossible task  nowadays

Zulu

WOW.
Are you are saying that if we as a US citizen goes to another country that we do not have to follow that country laws?  We only have to follow the US Laws & not that country laws? are you serious?

[z_k_g]

WOW.
Are you are saying that if we as a US citizen goes to another country that we do not have to follow that country laws?  We only have to follow the US Laws & not that country laws? are you serious?

Kfc,

No matter what country we visit we have to abide by US law.  Period.  The US is one of the few countries the have this type of far reaching legal reign on its citizens.

Where in that statement did I say we did not have to abide by the visiting countries laws?  I pointed out that the specific Philippine statute concerning age of consent, does not apply to American citizens. I didn't say, or imply, that ALL Philippine laws don't apply to American citizens.  

If you visit a foreign country, we have to abide by both laws, where local law rules.  

However, if we commit acts that are deemed illegal in the US and criminal in nature and it comes to light in the US, (even where that act may not be illegal in the host country) then we can be prosecuted in the US for those acts.

Specifically in the case of sex with a female/male (depending on your tastes), the US law supersedes the local law (by international treaty agreement to prevent child exploitation/slavery/prostitution) in order to combat sex tourism with children under 18.  

Zulu

[thekfc]

Where in that statement did I say we did not have to abide by the visiting countries laws?

The rules regarding pinoys don't apply to US citizens.

Citing extensive Philippine law seems unnecessary, because it will never apply to you.

No matter what country we live in or visit, even as an expat, we have to abide by US law, even if we renounce our citizenship, which is almost an impossible task  nowadays

That is your original unedited post which I quoted - you went back and edited your post. I am going by your original post & YOU should go by that too - NOT your edited post.

Saying that Citing extensive Philippine law seems unnecessary, because it will never apply to you  - does that mean that since it do not apply to us then we do not have to follow it.

Can someone please tell me what the words in red above mean? Not the edited post.

[z_k_g]

The rules regarding pinoys don't apply to US citizens.

Citing extensive Philippine law seems unnecessary, because it will never apply to you.

No matter what country we live in or visit, even as an expat, we have to abide by US law, even if we renounce our citizenship, which is almost an impossible task  nowadays

That is your original unedited post which I quoted - you went back and edited your post. I am going by your original post & YOU should go by that too - NOT your edited post.

Saying that Citing extensive Philippine law seems unnecessary, because it will never apply to you  - does that mean that since it do not apply to us then we do not have to follow it.

Can someone please tell me what the words in red above mean? Not the edited post.

Kfc,

The rules i was referring too were specifically the law that you listed concerning age of consent, which i further clarified with the statement "Citing extensive Philippine law seems unnecessary, because it (the age of consent statute that you, Kfc quoted) will never apply to you." so you would not be confused about what "rules" i was referring too.

These "rules", that you cited, were the entire context of the discussion

The specific law that you quoted will never apply to you concerning age of consent in the Philippines because you are a US citizen.

Kfc, "never" - an adverb that means- not ever at no time, not at all, absolutely not, to no extent or degree.

Also, you are bound by US laws even if you do not live in the states as long as you are a citizen.

Is that clear?

Zulu

[william3rd]

Actually-wouldnt it would be more correct to say that all those laws in the Phillipines apply to foreigners as well as nationals in the country. In addition, the United States enforces certain laws against their own nationals based on its own laws for behavior that is otherwise lawful in the foreign country. I see a certain amount of arrogance since it appears to be a one way street.

[thekfc]

Kfc,

The rules i was referring too were specifically the law that you listed concerning age of consent, which i further clarified with the statement "Citing extensive Philippine law seems unnecessary, because it will never apply to you." so you would not be confused about what "rules" i was referring too.

These "rules", that you cited, were the entire context of the discussion, are you clear now?

Zulu

Your original post didn't say any of that. Your original post was only 3 lines/sentences. You went back & edited your post (changed & added more to it). It didn't mention anything about the age of consent or otherwise.

There were a few things that I mentions in my post on page 3 - including marriage & prostitution. To me your original response (which did not mention age of consent) said that this too do not apply to you since you are a US citizen.

[thekfc]

Actually-wouldnt it would be more correct to say that all those laws in the Phillipines apply to foreigners as well as nationals in the country. In addition, the United States enforces certain laws against their own nationals based on its own laws for behavior that is otherwise lawful in the foreign country. I see a certain amount of arrogance since it appears to be a one way street.

Thank You

[z_k_g]

Your original post didn't say any of that. Your original post was only 3 lines/sentences. You went back & edited your post (changed & added more to it). It didn't mention anything about the age of consent or otherwise.

There were a few things that I mentions in my post on page 3 - including marriage & prostitution. To me your original response (which did not mention age of consent) said that this too do not apply to you since you are a US citizen.

Kfc,

I edited my original post for clarification for you, because obviously It wasn't clear that the only law we were discussing was the "age of consent" statute that you included in your post.

I stand by my original post unchanged and unedited.

Zulu

[z_k_g]

Actually-wouldnt it would be more correct to say that all those laws in the Phillipines apply to foreigners as well as nationals in the country. In addition, the United States enforces certain laws against their own nationals based on its own laws for behavior that is otherwise lawful in the foreign country. I see a certain amount of arrogance since it appears to be a one way street.

W3,

I said that.

6 eggs, or half a dozen?

Kfc, likes your half dozen.

Zulu

[thekfc]

W3,

I said that.

hmmm.

First you said & I quote:

The rules regarding pinoys don't apply to US citizens.
Citing extensive Philippine law seems unnecessary, because it will never apply to you.

Then you came back and said & I quote:

No matter what country we visit we have to abide by US law.  Period.  The US is one of the few countries the have this type of far reaching legal reign on its citizens.
If you visit a foreign country, we have to abide by both laws, where local law rules. 

oh wait.......
6 eggs or half dozen?

[z_k_g]

kfc,

Obviously you are not reading my clarifications.

I stand by my statements 100%.

Zulu

[thekfc]

kfc,

Obviously you are not reading my clarifications.

I stand by my statements 100%.

Zulu

Sorry, I was going by your original & unedited post which you stand by 100% - I was not going by your edited posts.

I apologize.

[ignorante]

There was the infamous case in Georgia last year that landed a young man in jail as soon as he turned 18 for having sexual relations with his 16 year old gf. The hour he reached 18, they arrested him.

 No, there wasn't any such case.  You have your facts wrong.  In Georgia, the legal age of consent was 14 back in the 1990s.  They raised it to 16.  In other words, a female must be 15 or younger for a statutory rape charge to apply.  I am an attorney in Georgia, and I was a police officer in Georgia for a lot of years.  Nobody in Georgia is arrested for violation of an international treaty or international law for engaging in sex with 16 or 17 year old females.

Please do not respond to this post with emphasis in italics to stress your unsupported statements.  If you think that what you are saying is real, then the news stories for an "infamous" case should be easy to find and post.

While there have been some "infamous" cases here in Georgia, some even resulting in legislative changes to avoid injustice, you quite simply have your facts wrong.  Georgia law does not support your claim.

[ignorante]

16-6-3. Statutory rape.
(a) A person commits the offense of statutory rape when he or she engages in sexual intercourse with any person under the age of 16 years and not his or her spouse, provided that no conviction shall be had for this offense on the unsupported testimony of the victim.
(b) A person convicted of the offense of statutory rape shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than one nor more than 20 years; provided, however, that if the victim is 14 or 15 years of age and the person so convicted is no more than three years older than the victim, such person may, in the discretion of the court, be punished as for a misdemeanor.
http://www.lectlaw.com/files/sex06.htm

[z_k_g]

 No, there wasn't any such case.  You have your facts wrong.  In Georgia, the legal age of consent was 14 back in the 1990s.  They raised it to 16.  In other words, a female must be 15 or younger for a statutory rape charge to apply.  I am an attorney in Georgia, and I was a police officer in Georgia for a lot of years.  Nobody in Georgia is arrested for violation of an international treaty or international law for engaging in sex with 16 or 17 year old females.

Please do not respond to this post with emphasis in italics to stress your unsupported statements.  If you think that what you are saying is real, then the news stories for an "infamous" case should be easy to find and post.

While there have been some "infamous" cases here in Georgia, some even resulting in legislative changes to avoid injustice, you quite simply have your facts wrong.  Georgia law does not support your claim.

ignorante,

Please read.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1355/is_10_105/ai_114168404/

I was wrong, he was already 18 when they had sex.

Fact: She was 15
Fact: He was 18
Fact: He got 10 years
Fact: Aquitted of statutory rape
Fact: Convicted of Aggravated Child Molestation

Zulu

[ignorante]

Right - 15, which is the age of statutory rape or child molestation in Georgia.  16 is the age of consent here, not 18.  It used to be 14.

[ignorante]

16-6-4. Child molestation; aggravated child molestation.
(a) A person commits the offense of child molestation when he or she does any immoral or indecent act to or in the presence of or with any child under the age of 16 years with the intent to arouse or satisfy the sexual desires of either the child or the person.
(b) A person convicted of a first offense of child molestation shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than five nor more than 20 years. Upon such first conviction of the offense of child molestation, the judge may probate the sentence; and such probation may be upon the special condition that the defendant undergo a mandatory period of counseling administered by a licensed psychiatrist or a licensed psychologist. However, if the judge finds that such probation should not be imposed, he or she shall sentence the defendant to imprisonment; provided, further, that upon a defendant's being incarcerated on a conviction for such first offense, the Department of Corrections shall provide counseling to such defendant. Upon a second or subsequent conviction of an offense of child molestation, the defendant shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than ten years nor more than 30 years or by imprisonment for life; provided, however, that prior to trial, a defendant shall be given notice, in writing, that the state intends to seek a punishment of life imprisonment. Adjudication of guilt or imposition of sentence for a conviction of a second or subsequent offense of child molestation, including a plea of nolo contendere, shall not be suspended, probated, deferred, or withheld.
(c) A person commits the offense of aggravated child molestation when such person commits an offense of child molestation which act physically injures the child or involves an act of sodomy.
(d) A person convicted of the offense of aggravated child molestation shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than ten nor more than 30 years. Any person convicted under this Code section of the offense of aggravated child molestation shall, in addition, be subject to the sentencing and punishment provisions of Code Sections 17-10-6.1 and 17- 10-7.

[ignorante]

After reading your posts above about clarifications and edits, did I miss something?  I thought you were contending that it was unlawful to have sex with a female under 18 in any state in the United States.  If I misunderstood, then I apologize.

[ignorante]

BTW, the really infamous case in Georgia that resulted in legislative changes was the Genarlow Wilson case.

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/law/10/29/wilson.released/

He was 17 and received oral favors from a 15 year old at a party.  He served two years of his 10 year sentence for aggravated child molestation before the Georgia Supreme Court ruled his sentence "cruel and unusual," which was his only lifesaver after the General Assembly made sex between a 17 year old and a 15 year old a misdemeanor but did not make the new law retroactive.

[mudd]

what i am wondering is, if every state in  the USA is different, and the general rule/ law for an American traveling to an foreign country is over 18 years old, and he is busted having sex with a minor ( under 18 years)  by local police, even thought the age there maybe 16, and say, his state in the USA is 16 also, will he be convicted as a sex offender under USA laws?

because what i have seen and learned, their are some  ( usually old men) doing this. would be nice to see them busted.

[z_k_g]

what i am wondering is, if every state in  the USA is different, and the general rule/ law for an American traveling to an foreign country is over 18 years old, and he is busted having sex with a minor ( under 18 years)  by local police, even thought the age there maybe 16, and say, his state in the USA is 16 also, will he be convicted as a sex offender under USA laws?

because what i have seen and learned, their are some  ( usually old men) doing this. would be nice to see them busted.

mudd,

Yes, by international treaty, 18 is the age of consent for sex, period.

Doesn't matter about your state law, when you leave the USA, its 18 if you visit a foreign country, and it doesn't matter about local laws, statues or customs concerning age of consent of the country you are visiting, etc.

However, I am not sure about marriage under the same circumstances, if the female is under 18.  There may be some exceptions for parental consent.  But I think they included provisions in the treaty to prevent the marriage of child brides moving across boarders, not sure tho.

If you are jailed and sentenced in the foreign country, you will serve your sentence there and then you will be deported and be charged here also.  

If found guilty of course you will serve time in the states.

Zulu