First foreigner EVER to be convicted in Colombia on pedophile charges

[z_k_g]

Was The Killer in Mississippi or Louisiana when he married his 3rd wife? It was a day or two before her 14th birthday and created a scandal that almost destroyed his career.  

She was 13 and his second cousin.

The laws have changed significantly since then.  Jerry Lee Lewis and Elvis, who screwed Priscella at 14, would be locked up based on our laws today.

Zulu

[Brazilophile]

Jim,

So whats my real objection with Mudd's post?  

Let me explain.

First of all, I don't want to justify any of the feminist arguments by giving "pedophila" a place here as a legitimate subject to discuss.  We all know that the feminists love news that highlight "First foreigner EVER to be convicted in Colombia on pedophile charges", hey, it fits right into their agenda.  Men are pigs and here is the proof.  "Lets expand IMBRA girls! Hey, its a huge problem, they are even discussing pedophiles on their forums!!"

Second, my position is, we DO NOT need to spend our time on this subject, pedophiles, because they (the feminists) will!!

Third, men of like minds on forums such as P-L, need to discuss, debate and rationalize LEGITIMATE issues and concerns, about relationships, love and circumstances that "enhance" our experience in Latin America and Asia.

Finally, I strongly feel we can shape the debate concerning foreign brides if we keep our focus.  Our viewpoints may not be flattering or positive; we may disagree and argue over every post;  we will get flamers and trolls and some major discussions will get sent to the Flame room.   But in the end, our posts, debates, arguments and agreements will help some poor sap avoid the traps, recognize the red flags and make the right decision!

Just my opinion.  

Zulu

I don't post often.  For what it's worth, I agree with Zulu for the reasons he outlined.  If a majority of frequent posters want to participate in this thread, then let it stay.  I feel such threads bring down the entire forum.

[Ray]

Can an adult marry a 15 year old? Yes, with the parents consent.

Zulu,

As I stated earlier, a 15 year old girl can marry without parental consent in Mississippi.

But if they get married because she is pregnant, and she is also under 18, he may get the parents permission to marry, but once they get to the courthouse for the license, and she is under age and pregnant the local constable will come a calling with an arrest warrant for statutory.

In the US, in all 50 states, any adult over 18, cannot have legal sexual relations, or touching of any type, with a minor of any age, regardless of age difference, period. Doing so, will again, result in a mandatory statutory charge.

Zulu

Wrong again. Take Mississippi again for example. Statutory rape requires the female to be under 16, not 18. Same goes for lots of other states.

All states have different laws on this stuff. Look it up…

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2003/olrdata/jud/rpt/2003-R-0376.htm

Ray

[z_k_g]

Zulu,

As I stated earlier, a 15 year old girl can marry without parental consent in Mississippi.

Wrong again. Take Mississippi again for example. Statutory rape requires the female to be under 16, not 18. Same goes for lots of other states.

All states have different laws on this stuff. Look it up…

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2003/olrdata/jud/rpt/2003-R-0376.htm

Ray

Ray,

I stand by my statement 100%.  Read what I wrote.  I agree with you concerning marriage, that's not my point.  

My point is if the young sweetie is under 18 and she walks in for a marriage license preggie (yours) you will be escorted to a cell and charged with sexual battery (statutory by another name).

The law you cite is specific and does NOT cover all circumstances. With the national "pedophile" hysteria and obsession, these laws have amended and expanded over the last 10 years.  The link you pointed out is not the entire code for Mississippi or any of those states.

However....what is absolute....is

In the US, in all 50 states, any adult over 18, cannot have legal sexual relations, or touching of any type, with a minor (under 18), regardless of age difference, period. Doing so, will again, result in a mandatory statutory charge.

By international treaty (that the US pushed heavily) a minor (Under 18) cannot i.e. "never" legally, agree to consensual sex with an adult.  (Over 18)  Period.

This is absolute, no exceptions.  You can be prosecuted under US law anywhere on the planet for this offense, try your luck with a cutie 17yrs 11months and 29days in Manila, Bogota or Rio and see where this will get you.

This actually has been expanded to include text messages, emails and facebook.  If the subject is under 18 and you do anything remotely sexual, pictures, texts, video, you are going to jail, period.

The various state laws primarily deal with minors having sexual relations with each other, within a certain age range, as to not criminalize the act, or allowing minors (15 or 16) to marry anyone they want, including a person over 18.  I will add, that allowing marriage, is NOT allowing or legalizing an adult (over 18) pre-marital sex with a minor (under 18), an illegal act.

Zulu

[thekfc]

From the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services:

http://aspe.hhs.gov/hsp/08/SR/StateLaws/statelaws.shtml#_ftnref38

[michaelb]

Perhaps it's an oversight, Z, but either you seem to be contradicting yourself or you don't believe that married couples can have sex unless they are both the same side of 18, either both under or both over. You agreed with Ray that females can get married at 15 in at least one state, then you said that no adult can not legally have sex with anybody under that age of 18, and you said  "This is absolute, no exceptions."  Wouldn't the fact that they are married to each other constitute an exception? Or do you really believe that certain married couples can't legally have sex? Most likely you meant to say "No adult can have non-marital sex with anybody under 18".....however, even if that's what you really meant, I question the accuracy of that assertion.

As for thekfc's link, while everything it says is probably accurate, it leaves out the fact that Texas (and other states too, I think) have additional laws forbidding sexual relations between educators and students, even if the student has attained the age of consent.

[JimD]

Zulu interesting information indeed. I admit I have no knowege outside of Colombia. What is the age of consent in the Phillipines? In Colombia it is fourteen. I met an eighteen year old girl a while back who had a one year old kid and the father was a policeman of all things. That´s Colombia for you. Anyway yes it is very important to note as you have that as an American you can certainly be prosecuted (and should be) in the US if you have sexual relations with a girl under eighteen in Colombia. I think this topic is salient because the majority of guys these days meet Colombian girls via sites like Colombian Cupid instead of the marriage agencies (which check their IDs but which are almost gone) and there´s absolutely no verification of anything. You could chat with a girl online for months, go to Colombia to meet her, meet her family and everything, end up sleeping with her then lo and behold find out she´s only seventeen. As to the actual process of prosecution though I would guess it´s not so cut and dried. I would think the girl or her family would have lodge a complaint about the gringo offender with the US Embassy in Bogotá. (If it were lodged with the local polce and he didn´t hit her they´d probobly say huh?) If we´re not talking some sort of police sting operation with underage hookers this possibility would be remote. There are absolutely no seventeen year old colombianas who have the remotest inkling of this US law and in the villages at least it is absolutely the norm that underage girls are with men over eighteen and usually way over eighteen since the older the man the more financially stable he is likely to be.

So if you´re chatting up a very pretty but suspiciously young looking chica online: Beware!  

[JimD]

As for thekfc's link, while everything it says is probably accurate, it leaves out the fact that Texas (and other states too, I think) have additional laws forbidding sexual relations between educators and students, even if the student has attained the age of consent.

Is that true? Since when? ¡Que horror!

[michaelb]

Since September 1, 2003. Here's a link:
http://www.totalcriminaldefense.com/news/articles/sex-crimes/teacher-student-sex.aspx

[z_k_g]

Perhaps it's an oversight, Z, but either you seem to be contradicting yourself or you don't believe that married couples can have sex unless they are both the same side of 18, either both under or both over. You agreed with Ray that females can get married at 15 in at least one state, then you said that no adult can not legally have sex with anybody under that age of 18, and you said  "This is absolute, no exceptions."  Wouldn't the fact that they are married to each other constitute an exception? Or do you really believe that certain married couples can't legally have sex? Most likely you meant to say "No adult can have non-marital sex with anybody under 18".....however, even if that's what you really meant, I question the accuracy of that assertion.

As for thekfc's link, while everything it says is probably accurate, it leaves out the fact that Texas (and other states too, I think) have additional laws forbidding sexual relations between educators and students, even if the student has attained the age of consent.

Mb,

Read exactly what I wrote, no contradictions, no corrections.

You can marry at 15 in Miss, without parental consent, but If you are proven to have had sex with the minor (under 18), BEFORE the marriage, and that would be the case if she walks in preggie at the courthouse to get the license with your kid inside, then you will be arrested.

After the marriage the law does not apply obviously.

Zulu

[z_k_g]

Zulu interesting information indeed. I admit I have no knowege outside of Colombia. What is the age of consent in the Phillipines? In Colombia it is fourteen.

Once again, Age of consent has nothing to do with the American/International Law for you!  Its 18, period!

I met an eighteen year old girl a while back who had a one year old kid and the father was a policeman of all things. That´s Colombia for you. Anyway yes it is very important to note as you have that as an American you can certainly be prosecuted (and should be) in the US if you have sexual relations with a girl under eighteen in Colombia. I think this topic is salient because the majority of guys these days meet Colombian girls via sites like Colombian Cupid instead of the marriage agencies (which check their IDs but which are almost gone) and there´s absolutely no verification of anything. You could chat with a girl online for months, go to Colombia to meet her, meet her family and everything, end up sleeping with her then lo and behold find out she´s only seventeen. As to the actual process of prosecution though I would guess it´s not so cut and dried. I would think the girl or her family would have lodge a complaint about the gringo offender with the US Embassy in Bogotá. (If it were lodged with the local polce and he didn´t hit her they´d probobly say huh?) If we´re not talking some sort of police sting operation with underage hookers this possibility would be remote.

You should read about the push to go after men who are ignorant of the law.  In fact there are a lot of entrapment scams that exploit this and lots of money being made on the side to get out of this type of mess.

There are absolutely no seventeen year old colombianas who have the remotest inkling of this US law and in the villages at least it is absolutely the norm that underage girls are with men over eighteen and usually way over eighteen since the older the man the more financially stable he is likely to be.

Not true.  Its not simply US law, its International law pushed by the US to stop sex toursim.  

The local cops, scammers and prosecutors know, you stand out, and everyone gets paid when you get bagged, because typically its better to just pay a "fine" or the bribe than spend time in a local jail.

So if you´re chatting up a very pretty but suspiciously young looking chica online: Beware!  

She is Robert's wife's older sister, should I be concerned?

Zulu

[michaelb]

After the marriage the law does not apply obviously.

Zulu

That's why I said "Most likely you meant to say.....".

I still don't think you're correct about the other part. The age varies from state to state. Now, if the prospective groom brought the prospective bride in pregnant and under age for her state then he might be arrested, but the age of her state is not universally 18 as you keep asserting, it varies from state to state. 

[JimD]

Zulu perhaps you misunderstood the question. What is the age of consent in the Phillipines for the native Phillipine population?

[z_k_g]

That's why I said "Most likely you meant to say.....".

I still don't think you're correct about the other part. The age varies from state to state. Now, if the prospective groom brought the prospective bride in pregnant and under age for her state then he might be arrested, but the age of her state is not universally 18 as you keep asserting, it varies from state to state. 

Mb,

Most states have started to prosecute, using the minimum age difference statues in some cases (and that varies per state, some its 18 months, some up to 4 years) and in other cases just charging the guys with statutory or some other battery related charge or whatever they can find on the books that will stick.  

All across the nation, the DA's have been given a mandate by the justice department to prosecute and worry about the "exact" law later.

There was the infamous case in Georgia last year that landed a young man in jail as soon as he turned 18 for having sexual relations with his 16 year old gf. The hour he reached 18, they arrested him.

I agree that each state has different laws, but if she is under 18 and the DA, cops, another parent, a jealous friend, facebook or a text message, someone thinks there is an issue, you will be arrested, and go through the ringer.  They will find a charge that fits and you will be guilty of something.

The new laws that concern public schools, cops and other workers who have contact with children have been enacted to handle those cases where the high school student may be 18 or older.  

These laws have been extended in a lot of cases by prosecutors to include everyone that has contact with the student not necessarily in the school environment, but interpreted as precedence to mean anyone with authority over the person.  So the state minimums that you cite become meaningless because every child must legally be in school till 18 unless they have graduated early, and theoretically under someone's authority!

I served on two juries and its not a chance that you would want to take to test the law, just not worth the pain!

Judges and juries will have no sympathy for you!  

Zulu

[z_k_g]

Zulu perhaps you misunderstood the question. What is the age of consent in the Phillipines for the native Phillipine population?

Jim,

I think its 14 or 15.

Zulu

[JimD]

Thanks. About like Colombia.

[mudd]

Once again, In the US, in all 50 states, any adult over 18, cannot have legal sexual relations, or touching of any type, with a minor of any age, regardless of age difference, period.  Doing so, will again, result in a mandatory statutory charge

one point i would like to make, (and correct me if i am wrong )   American men in Medellin having sex/ dating  girls 16 to 17 years old,  Thinking, since its legal for a Colombian, its legal for a foreigner..... But as i recall, its not  the laws in the country your in, but the laws of the country the person is from. Meaning a man 30 years old from USA, in Colombia having sex with a girl who is under 18 is illegal, and if arrested and found guilty, will be prosecuted and deemed a sex offender  under USA laws.

[michaelb]

From what you're saying it sounds not only that they won't have any sympathy, they blatantly  choose to ignore the laws they have sworn to uphold too.

[thekfc]

Jim,

I think its 14 or 15.

Zulu

This is for the Philippines - I am not sure if it is still current - someone correct me if I am wrong.

~At one time the age of sexual consent was 12 for all. There was a house bill before the Philippine Congress titled HB 683 to change the age from 12 to 16 - I do not know what become of that bill. So I am not sure if it is still 12 or now 16 or another age.

~However, contacts with minors (under 18) are an offense, IF the minor consents to the act for money, gain or any other remuneration or as the result of an influence of any adult person.

~The law on statutory rape says that any form of sex with anyone under the age of twelve is automatically a crime.

~Sexual contact with anyone from twelve to seventeen for money or renumeration is also a crime.

~It is a crime to deceive (for example, with promises of marriage) or abuse one's authority, confidence, or relationship in order to gain the consent of a female (not male) to have sex, if she is: (a) from thirteen to seventeen-years-old, and (b) a virgin or a woman "of good reputation."

~Children" refers to person below eighteen (18) years of age or those over but are unable to fully take care of themselves or protect themselves from abuse, neglect, cruelty, exploitation or discrimination because of a physical or mental disability or condition.

~The Philippines Government  did changed the act of consent so that there can be no consent between anyone trafficked into prostitution and a customer, even when consent is given. So ANY person trafficked into prostitution shall be deemed a child regardless of their age. If you are caught with a prostitute - jail.

~The marrying age is 18 with parental consent, 21 with parental advice & 25 without parental consent nor advice.

Someone who have more updated info can make the corrections.

[z_k_g]

This is for the Philippines - I am not sure if it is still current - someone correct me if I am wrong.

~At one time the age of sexual consent was 12 for all. There was a house bill before the Philippine Congress titled HB 683 to change the age from 12 to 16 - I do not know what become of that bill. So I am not sure if it is still 12 or now 16 or another age.

~However, contacts with minors (under 18) are an offense, IF the minor consents to the act for money, gain or any other remuneration or as the result of an influence of any adult person.

~The law on statutory rape says that any form of sex with anyone under the age of twelve is automatically a crime.

~Sexual contact with anyone from twelve to seventeen for money or renumeration is also a crime.

~It is a crime to deceive (for example, with promises of marriage) or abuse one's authority, confidence, or relationship in order to gain the consent of a female (not male) to have sex, if she is: (a) from thirteen to seventeen-years-old, and (b) a virgin or a woman "of good reputation."

~Children" refers to person below eighteen (18) years of age or those over but are unable to fully take care of themselves or protect themselves from abuse, neglect, cruelty, exploitation or discrimination because of a physical or mental disability or condition.

~The Philippines Government  did changed the act of consent so that there can be no consent between anyone trafficked into prostitution and a customer, even when consent is given. So ANY person trafficked into prostitution shall be deemed a child regardless of their age. If you are caught with a prostitute - jail.

~The marrying age is 18 with parental consent, 21 with parental advice & 25 without parental consent nor advice.

Someone who have more updated info can make the corrections.

kfc,

If you are a US citizen its 18. Period.

Zulu

[z_k_g]

From what you're saying it sounds not only that they won't have any sympathy, they blatantly  choose to ignore the laws they have sworn to uphold too.

Mb,

Its called pedophile hysteria, and they "find" a law to fit, so its all very legal.  

IMBRA was conceived in this atmosphere with the presumption that the pervs and wife beaters who were taking their game overseas to exploit the innocent and unsuspecting foreign babes would not be able to escape the righteousness of feminism and the long arm of the law.

They didn't have such a law, so they invented one- IMBRA!

Zulu

[EbonyPrince]

EPrince,

The age of consent only applies to minors and other minors having sex, and within the minimum age difference, in most states, 18 months.

Once again, In the US, in all 50 states, any adult over 18, cannot have legal sexual relations, or touching of any type, with a minor of any age, regardless of age difference, period.  Doing so, will again, result in a mandatory statutory charge.

Age of consent has no bearing.

Period.

Zulu

My mistake.  In the ORC (Ohio Revised Code) you are of legal age of consent at 16.  You are a minor if you are under the age of 13.  Between the ages of 13-15 you can only consent with juveniles 13-17, and if you are over 16 you can consent to anyone of any age. 

[robert angel]

ZKG,
For whatever reason, you don't seem to think that pedophilia, or, foreigners committing such a crime. is worthy of discussion here, but that's just your mindset-----your opinion. I try not to be too thin skinned and to consider the source and his or her situation. But I don't appreciate your past and certainly your most recent comment-  wise crack ref ferring to my wife. My wife had already graduated with five year university degrees in both soft and hardware computer engineering from a university tough enough that all her credits later were accepted in the USA. She worked for Coca Cola as in intern and they felt she was mature enough to be hired as regular--not as a 'contract' employee. In just over a year she was already promoted. Two years later, we married. At around age 30  now, no she didn't 'fit' the guidelines I had initially laid out, but I could tell from her demeanor, from how she didn't send me teenie bopper like suggestive photos and how she has always been one to support, Rather than have to be supported by her family, as the eldest sibling, that she was mature beyond her years. Maybe I am being a bit over sensitive here when you- --presumably joking, insinuate that my wife appears to look like your coed girl friend's little sister, but that, combined with your trivializing the serious and appropriateness of discussing pedophilia in a thread here, leave me both irked. And concerned.

[william3rd]

You are giving IMBRA too much credit. VAWA is equally responsible. That law opens the door to magic green cards.

[z_k_g]

ZKG,
For whatever reason, you don't seem to think that pedophilia, or, foreigners committing such a crime. is worthy of discussion here, but that's just your mindset-----your opinion. I try not to be too thin skinned and to consider the source and his or her situation. But I don't appreciate your past and certainly your most recent comment-  wise crack ref ferring to my wife. My wife had already graduated with five year university degrees in both soft and hardware computer engineering from a university tough enough that all her credits later were accepted in the USA. She worked for Coca Cola as in intern and they felt she was mature enough to be hired as regular--not as a 'contract' employee. In just over a year she was already promoted. Two years later, we married. At around age 30  now, no she didn't 'fit' the guidelines I had initially laid out, but I could tell from her demeanor, from how she didn't send me teenie bopper like suggestive photos and how she has always been one to support, Rather than have to be supported by her family, as the eldest sibling, that she was mature beyond her years. Maybe I am being a bit over sensitive here when you- --presumably joking, insinuate that my wife appears to look like your coed girl friend's little sister, but that, combined with your trivializing the serious and appropriateness of discussing pedophilia in a thread here, leave me both irked. And concerned.

Robert,

I have not trivialized this issue, its as serious as any issue we discuss here, not sure how you get the impression from my posts that its not, please re-read, I said that this subject was in the wrong category, and I still believe that, IMHO.

You joke quite often about your wife looking young, so it was a compliment actually and a bit of tongue in cheek because pinays look quite a bit younger than they actually are. :-)

I would never say anything offensive about you or your wife or anyone on P-L.

Zulu