First foreigner EVER to be convicted in Colombia on pedophile charges

[mudd]

read this on another board, was worth putting on here. sick but true. Ran into a few  guys like this weirdo in medellin, most were staying in the  Medellin Mansion,  but are now living in the city. you just wanted to beat the krap out of them.


First foreigner EVER to be convicted in Colombia on pedophile charges - 15 years sentence


It's telling that this is the very first time that a foreigner has been convicted on these charges in Colombia. He gets to spend 15 years in Colombian jail. Hopefully, he'll last much less in the jail...

Source: http://www.elheraldo.com.co/ELHERALD...?CodSeccion=29

"CARTAGENA

La sala penal del Tribunal Superior de esta capital ratificó la condena de 15 años, proferida en primera instancia por el Juzgado VI Penal del Circuito, contra el italiano Paolo Pravisani, por los delitos de pornografía infantil, estímulo a la prostitución y acto sexual abusivo con menor de edad.

Por el escandaloso y aberrante caso también fueron condenadas Hilda Martínez y Angélica Tovar, cómplices de los abusos del italiano a varios menores de edad.

Pravisani es el primer extranjero condenado por estos delitos, luego de un prolongado proceso judicial que trató de eludir.

Las dos mujeres, que eran su enlace con los niños abusados sexualmente, deberán purgar 10 años de cárcel.

Freddy Del Toro, abogado de la familia del menor Yesid Tovar, muerto en uno de los actos del pedófilo italiano, quien, al parecer, además consumía y les hacía consumir droga a sus víctimas, manifestó sentirse conforme con la decisión del alto tribunal.
“Sin duda en este caso se ha hecho justicia”, dijo el defensor.

Del final del proceso solo le preocupa que las víctimas, es decir los familiares de Yesid Tovar, no podrán ser reparadas como ordenó la Justicia, pues se conoció que el italiano ya no tiene propiedades a su nombre ni tiene los recursos económicos que se esperaban."

[z_k_g]

Mudd,

I disagree, I don't think this is worth posting here in any section of the forum, just my personal opinion.

Zulu

[mudd]

then i guess, have it removed. Dan can remove it.

[Gato4Astrid]

Not surprised!  Some pedophilers tried to add my novia's 13 years old daughter in Facebook.  They are 46 and 60 yo

[Dan]

Mudd,

I disagree, I don't think this is worth posting here in any section of the forum, just my personal opinion.

Zulu

What is the problem with it, exactly?

- Dan

[JimD]

That Italian is certainly not the first foreigner to be convicted of sex crimes involving Colombian minors. The big deal in that story is obviously the fact that one of them died from forced drug use. I know of a foreigner who was convicted of child (that can mean seventeen of course) pornography quite a few years before this story. I´ve had second hand input on a number of other cases. And just a month ago there was an article in Cali´s El Pais stating four American tourists had been arrested for seeking sex with underage girls. There is a huge campaign going on in Colombia right now warning against sexual child abuse. There are big signs in even regional airports warning of the consequences. And not just airports. I was in a town recently where such a sign nearly hid the police station it was so big. A reminder that this isn´t just directed at foreigners since Colombians are the worst offenders.

As to Colombian jails I had occaision to visit a relative of a girl I was dating in jail once. An interesting and at times amusing experience all told but I left thinking man if they ever throw me in the slammer I hope it´s in Colombia and not the US. The reason being all Colombian jails have conjugal visits on Sundays. What this means is you can have your wife, your girlfriend or a prostitute come visit you ie. you can have sex with a woman once a week. Guess what that cuts down on or as I was told pretty well cuts out altogether. 

[z_k_g]

Dan,

Are we that bored here?  

I personally don't see how this particular news adds to the conversation about relationships.

I can see that the discussions about potential robberies, scams, and potential safety issues are relevant to General Discussions about Dating and relationships in Colombia, the Philippines or Thailand.  I get those posts.

Do we talk about pet abuse next?  Am I the only person concerned with this trend, I think not.

Lets get back on task with P-L, RELATIONSHIPS!

Like I said, my personal opinion.

Zulu

[Dan]

Dan,

Are we that bored here?  

I personally don't see how this particular news adds to the conversation about relationships.

I can see that the discussions about potential robberies, scams, and potential safety issues are relevant to General Discussions about Dating and relationships in Colombia, the Philippines or Thailand.  I get those posts.

Do we talk about pet abuse next?  Am I the only person concerned with this trend, I think not.

Lets get back on task with P-L, RELATIONSHIPS!

Like I said, my personal opinion.

Zulu

It is not a matter of being "bored."

So long as a topic does not violate the Terms of Service and is generally thematic, there is no problem with its posting.

- Dan

[z_k_g]

It is not a matter of being "bored."

So long as a topic does not violate the Terms of Service and is generally thematic, there is no problem with its posting.

- Dan

Dan,

P-L is a forum dedicated to relationships and dating.  The General discussion section is "Any Latin international dating topic not covered elsewhere"  with emphasis (mine) on dating.

I actually enjoy getting insights on news and updates that add to our wide ranging discussions on dating whether the Asian or Latin boards.

My issue with this post, and some others lately, that I haven't expressed this concern about, is that, even though is occurred in Colombia, it is so divergent from the purpose of P-L that someone has to get us back on course.

Mudd is one of the most insightful and valuable contributors on P-L and I am always looking forward to his posts and his viewpoint, whether I agree or disagree.   But this post was, in my opinion, useless in furthering any discussions about relationships.  

Of course it does not violate the Terms of Service, but we have to have loftier goals than that in my opinion.  
Recently there was a spirited discussion on the Asian board about cars.  This is not a car discussion forum and it should have been curtailed.  That discussion got so off base that they started discussing quality control issues!

No Terms of Service violations there either, but it got a bit silly.  This is not a car forum and we must keep that in mind.

As far as pedophiles are concerned, how does that further our knowledge and insights into relationships? What value will that bring to our discussions about Latinas?  (except the obvious, make sure they are over 18!)

Dan, there is an area called "Off-Topic Items-Topics having nothing to do with foreign women"

Just as the Flame room has its purpose, so does the Off-Topic Items area- for subject such as pedophiles (and cars)!!

Mudd should know better!  

Zulu

[JimD]

Mudd has made and continues to make timely and interesting posts concerning subjects of considerable interest to those of us here on the LATIN FORUM whose focus is on Colombia. Posters whose interest lies entirely in other geographic areas will likely find subjects of greater interest to them if they simply click over to their forum.

To Mudd: thanks for the updates on Colombia and keep them coming!

[z_k_g]

Mudd has made and continues to make timely and interesting posts concerning subjects of considerable interest to those of us here on the LATIN FORUM whose focus is on Colombia. Posters whose interest lies entirely in other geographic areas will likely find subjects of greater interest to them if they simply click over to their forum.

To Mudd: thanks for the updates on Colombia and keep them coming!

Jim,

I've dated women from Bogota, Managua, Caracas and Sao Paulo.

My present focus is PI.

My post was about content and proper placement in the Latin forum.

Zulu

[JimD]

Zulu as I´ve expressed, I´m interested in Mudd´s post, you're not so lets see if anyone else chimes in and we´ll have sort of a vote.

[z_k_g]

Jim,

We agree, Interesting article, never said it wasn't.

Zulu

[Jeff S]

I think it has value here by virtue that it serves as fair warning to anyone contemplating traveling to Colombia that messing around with underage women anywhere can get you thrown in the slammer.

[JimD]

Not to put too fine a point on the subject but lets not bandy around the term "pedophile" erroneosly. That term speciffically refers to young pre puberty age children. It does not refer to fourteen year old girls or older who are of legal marriagable (by a Colombian) age in Colombia. As to true pedophiles 99% of the perpetraters of that crime in Colombia are Colombians. While we´re on the topic and if Dan permits it would be interesting to hear from our LATIN FORUM Philipine contingent regarding this subject.

[z_k_g]

Jim,

My great grandmother was married at 14 or 15, late 1800's, maybe around 1895, in Mississippi and no one had a problem with it nor should they have had one.  I think her husband was 28, my great grandfather.

In our country today, 2010, USA, he would be in jail, branded a pedophile and banished to a life of threats and disgrace, if he ever made it out of jail.  His productive life, raising 12 successful kids, managing a large farm and being an upstanding citizen never would have been realized in today's America.  Just an interesting note!

As far as the 14 year old girls in Colombia are concerned, its really a moot point.  

An American can't or shouldn't even look crooked at them, considering the "jail-bait" consequences.  The fact is, that there are tons of 18+ that are ready and willing without the associated dire consequences of dealing with the "under 18" female crowd.

Even though its a great subject to discuss in general, its really moot, from a relationship perspective, for the above reasons and adds little or no value to the specific discussions about foreign relationships because its never going to happen.  So why discuss this in the relationship forum? Put it somewhere else. That was my main point.  

Also, I don't think for a minute that anyone of substance on P-L has the intent to date or marry a young pre-puberty age child, or for that matter, even contemplate a relationship in Colombia with a 14 year old.

So what are we discussing here?  The arrest of a "pedophile" in a forum about foreign marriage and relationships.  I just think its not the right place to broach that subject for the above reasons; Yes, interesting, but don't we have more relevant issues to discuss here, or, as I said, are we that bored?

As far as the Asian forum is concerned, I think we have had some posts concerning underage women and the importance of avoiding any pinay (or asian female) that "looks" underage!  Check her ID!  ( Robert you better beware )

Ironically, some members have expressed a concern over seriously dating and marrying anyone under or around 20, hinting that such a goal was bordering on "latent pedophilia".  Interesting viewpoint don't you think?  Of course anyone over 25 was "ok"!  Funny thing is when they show up with the 25 year old Asian cutie in the good old USA, walking down the street with her, you are still labeled a "dirty old man".  Funny how life works, huh?  You can never win!

Anyways, this type of thinking is the foundation of the "feminist" argument that we men, who seek foreign brides, really just want young pre-pubescent girls that can't think for themselves and end up being our "submissive" sex slaves, baby factories and housekeepers.

So whats my real objection with Mudd's post?  

Let me explain.

First of all, I don't want to justify any of the feminist arguments by giving "pedophila" a place here as a legitimate subject to discuss.  We all know that the feminists love news that highlight "First foreigner EVER to be convicted in Colombia on pedophile charges", hey, it fits right into their agenda.  Men are pigs and here is the proof.  "Lets expand IMBRA girls! Hey, its a huge problem, they are even discussing pedophiles on their forums!!"

Second, my position is, we DO NOT need to spend our time on this subject, pedophiles, because they (the feminists) will!!

Third, men of like minds on forums such as P-L, need to discuss, debate and rationalize LEGITIMATE issues and concerns, about relationships, love and circumstances that "enhance" our experience in Latin America and Asia.

Finally, I strongly feel we can shape the debate concerning foreign brides if we keep our focus.  Our viewpoints may not be flattering or positive; we may disagree and argue over every post;  we will get flamers and trolls and some major discussions will get sent to the Flame room.   But in the end, our posts, debates, arguments and agreements will help some poor sap avoid the traps, recognize the red flags and make the right decision!

Just my opinion.  

Zulu

[fathertime]

Zulu,

Just let people bring up subjects  in peace that they find interesting. If it is too far off-topic it usually goes to the  off-topic area.   

I like to hear about people getting tossed in the slammer when they have committed horrible crimes.  A lot of interesting things came out because of the subject matter, like the stuff JimD brought up about prison life in COlombia. 
 I'd like to see these type of inmates have their penis decapitated.

Fathertime!

[z_k_g]

Zulu,

Just let people bring up subjects  in peace that they find interesting. If it is too far off-topic it usually goes to the  off-topic area.   

I like to hear about people getting tossed in the slammer when they have committed horrible crimes.  A lot of interesting things came out because of the subject matter, like the stuff JimD brought up about prison life in COlombia. 
 I'd like to see these type of inmates have their penis decapitated.

Fathertime!

FT,

They are getting laid!!   

Zulu

[piglett]

well i have had a bunch going on in the last couple of days so i didn't see this post before now.
in defence of ZKG i can see his point. none of us are going any place in this entire world to try to marry a 10 year old girl (or sleep with one). so yes he does have a point IMHO. i was unable to read any of the story due to the fact that i don't read Spanish for sh*t, i understood a couple of words & that was it. also the link didn't work (at least not for me)

should Mudd have posted it .......i would say it was a bit in the grey area but hey in his defence i have probably posted worse at some point. 


piglett


 

[Ray]

My great grandmother was married at 14 or 15, late 1800's, maybe around 1895, in Mississippi and no one had a problem with it nor should they have had one.  I think her husband was 28, my great grandfather.

In our country today, 2010, USA, he would be in jail, branded a pedophile and banished to a life of threats and disgrace, if he ever made it out of jail.

No true.

Technically, in Mississippi, there is no minimum age for marriage with parental consent and/or permission of a judge. Without parental consent the minimum age for marriage in Mississippi is 15 for the female.

Ray

[JimD]

A side note for FT. Here’s how my jail visit went. I arrived at the jail and was directed by other visitors to a little kiosk outside. There you take off your shoes and rent some nasty old sandals for fifty cents . Then you get on line out side the entrance to the jail and are let in in groups of ten. Once inside you go to a counter where you hand over your identity document, in my case my passport. A guard then places three different stamps on your arm. This is to make sure that the people who go in are the same people who leave. They didn’t happen to have three different official prison stamps so the last stamp was a kids toy stamp of a gorilla. If you’ve brought food which is customary you turn it in at another counter where guards put on rubber gloves and poke through it thoroughly. If you have brought a cake it will resemble mashed potatoes when they get through with it. Then you enter a small room and are strip searched. Finally you enter the “patio” of the person you came to visit. There were two so that the guerrilla prisoners and paramilitary prisoners are separated from each other with common criminals sprinkled in both. I got to sit in the guerrilla patio with a FARC commander sitting on the next bench. It was amusing to note that several prisoners I came in contact with spoke passable English. Why? Well they’d done time in a US prison. Drugs of course. There was a third area in the back of the compound all walled in of course that had a good sized field with a sort of apartment next to it and a couple of cells. The apartment had been constructed by a big narco honcho (who had been moved to Bogotá when I visited ) and the two cells had been sleeping quarters for his two armed, yes armed bodyguards. He’d had a horse that he rode around in the field. I swear to God I’m not making any of this up. The visit lasts for about four hours and then you are let out in the same group of ten that you entered with. Once outside there are a couple of kids with rags and cleaning solvent who will clean the stamps off your arm for fifty cents. Finally you go to the kiosk and get your shoes back.

[z_k_g]

No true.

Technically, in Mississippi, there is no minimum age for marriage with parental consent and/or permission of a judge. Without parental consent the minimum age for marriage in Mississippi is 15 for the female.

Ray

Ray,

You are absolutely correct, however....

Can an adult marry a 15 year old?  Yes, with the parents consent.  Once that happens they are man and wife and no issues. But if they get married because she is pregnant, and she is also under 18, he may get the parents permission to marry, but once they get to the courthouse for the license, and she is under age and pregnant the local constable will come a calling with an arrest warrant for statutory.

In the case of pre-marital sex, between minors, the age difference can be no more than 3 years (it may be 18 months).   Go over that limit, and you are looking at an automatic and mandatory statutory charge.  Minors can pretty much have all the sex they want, but any person over 18 or more than the maximum age difference, cannot participate.

In the US, in all 50 states, any adult over 18, cannot have legal sexual relations, or touching of any type, with a minor of any age, regardless of age difference, period.  Doing so, will again, result in a mandatory statutory charge.

Zulu

[EbonyPrince]

In the US, in all 50 states, any adult over 18, cannot have legal sexual relations, or touching of any type, with a minor of any age, regardless of age difference, period.  Doing so, will again, result in a mandatory statutory charge.

Zulu

I know that at least in the state of Ohio you have to look at the age of consent.  The age of consent I believe is 15 in Ohio, so fathers be forewarned.

I am happy to see the world cracking down on these freaks.  I have seen on America's Most Wanted in the past couple of weeks where these men from Western countries go to places like Asia to take advantage of these young kids.  Some of these guys use their money to start orphanages in order to mask their criminal intent. 

Can't feel sorry for these people that know exactly what they are doing.  They travel to these countries because they suspect that no one is watching them over there. 

[michaelb]

No true.

Technically, in Mississippi, there is no minimum age for marriage with parental consent and/or permission of a judge. Without parental consent the minimum age for marriage in Mississippi is 15 for the female.

Ray

Was The Killer in Mississippi or Louisiana when he married his 3rd wife? It was a day or two before her 14th birthday and created a scandal that almost destroyed his career. 

[z_k_g]

I know that at least in the state of Ohio you have to look at the age of consent.  The age of consent I believe is 15 in Ohio, so fathers be forewarned.

EPrince,

The age of consent only applies to minors and other minors having sex, and within the minimum age difference, in most states, 18 months.

Once again, In the US, in all 50 states, any adult over 18, cannot have legal sexual relations, or touching of any type, with a minor of any age, regardless of age difference, period.  Doing so, will again, result in a mandatory statutory charge.

Age of consent has no bearing.

Period.

Zulu