The Mistakes Men Make with Foreign Women

[fathertime]

I read your page in its entirety and while anyone can offer differing opinions about the minutiae, and I do have some, but overall I think you did a good job of laying out the basics that everyone contemplating this road should be well aware of before they dive in.
- Jeff

I'm going to have to agree with Jeff on this.  I thought it was an excellent 'take' on the overall situation.  There are some aspects of the women that I personally haven't experienced, but that isn't to say they don't happen often for others. Definately a good read.


 

[fathertime]

Hopefully this can stay on topic and not become TOO brutal. I've used both Jamie's and William's services and as far as I'm concerned they both do an excellent job in their given roles in this process.  I've met AB and talked with him quite a bit, although he clearly made some missteps, to his credit it looks like he is trying to make it right with his lovely lady.  I don't see any bad guys here.   

Fathertime!

[fathertime]

This is a very interesting topic and should be read by all... I made a very big mistake a few years back, i have learned a lot since then and now i am taking it very slow with a great Colombian by my side.. I could not have done it without the help from this board and the many good people i have met...

once again this is a must read....


Ray

Come on Ray, you gotta spill your guts on what is going on now with this new woman!
Is she Colombian? Who? How? Where? etc! 
I wish you luck in your new adventure, I don't doubt you learned a lot from the mistakes of the last one!

Fathertime!

[Dan]

CAUTION!    CAUTION!


If you guys are not REALLY careful, you are going to be accused of a FIRST here at PL. You will be guilty of taking a topic that was headed off the rails and destined for the flameroom - and bringing it back from the brink to be a topic worthy of keeping in the forum that provides genuine value and assistance to others.

- Dan

[whitey]

TONS of good information on Jamie's web site ... this is a must read for anyone dating in Colombia.  I remember enjoying his site (not just the pictures!) before my first trip to Colombia and learning alot, even though I didn't use his services. 

I'm kinda glad I didn't listen to the advice, though, about writing beforehand and only dating one woman - I was one of those one hit wonder dudes. 

Hmmm ... I never thought to ask whether she had worms ... might explain why she's so slim ... guess that will be something we can talk about tonight. 

[robert angel]

Regarding 'The Mistakes Men make', etc- I think it's a worthwhile read for pretty much anybody here and interesting in that it most certainly doesn't sugar coat some of the ugly realities of the, shall we say: 'situation' down there.

The insights as given, seem to portray the mental--psychological state of most women there and the overall culture, in a less than flattering way.

Seeing how most agencies would rather present more of a make believe version of Shangri-La that a lot of guys are all too anxious to believe, reading this might raise some eyebrows and open the eyes a bit.

Sure it presents a case to use Jamie's agency and some might question it on that and under estimate the merits of insights given, but it certainly provides some helpful food for thought about not just Colombia, but for dating any women, especially women from third world countries.  

It certainly shows how doing your homework, referencing here and elsewhere can hugely effect your outcome.

And for all you lurkers out there--come on out of the darkness!--What are you afraid of--that Ray's gonna bite you?

Kudos to P-L for allowing a link in the initial post to allow members access.

[Dan]

Kudos to P-L for allowing a link in the initial post to allow members access.

Oh - well, actually there are only a handful of links that are blocked here. We operate in a VERY open fashion and allow links to all sorts of places. Having said that, I can easily imagine some of the remaining few troublemakers who will 'test' the limits of that openness - but I am hopeful that everyone will be able to demonstrate some level of maturity and will honor the policies of our site and keep things consistent with the Values that have been established.

- Dan

[Zon]

I admit it - I am a skimmer!  Rarely, do I read deeply these pages.

However, I just read Jamie's page; and I have to say RIGHT ON!  I mean really a must read for anybody foolish enough to embark with serious intentions.  ESPECIALLY, THE SECTION "UNDERSTANDING COLOMBIAN WOMEN"  If you are a newbie, read it now with no further delay.  It is a searing, truthful, and 100% accurate observation of the general single scene, Colombian style.

Colombia is NO place for a guy to go alone without friends, language skills, and limited time. Finding a woman to marry in that case, would be like finding a needle in a hay stack.

These words might not make sense to the human eye.  The problem is that when you SEE all the potential eligible women, your eyes do not filter: good family; education; values; and a host of other considerations. (In the USA, we have a much more homogeneous culture) When I lived in Cali, I drew the firm conclusion that if i saw 100 women with whom I was attracted, only 7 - 15 would have the requirements to be taken serious.  The others, even though they LOOKED great, would prove disappointing, or even dangerous.

I have never heard anything first hand negative about Jamie's agency (which is almost impossible when you stop and think about it). On the contrary, there is much positive.

================

It is important to get the rose colored glasses slapped off your face.

Having said that, there are many, many good people in Colombia that do not fit this accurate, albeit general stereotypes.   So, you have to DIG and be very energetic.  I do not think it is possible to be successful without a good knowledge of Spanish, or a good willingness to learn. 

[Researcher]

 

I'm kinda glad I didn't listen to the advice, though, about writing beforehand and only dating one woman - I was one of those one hit wonder dudes. 

   Now Whitey, if you jumped off a bridge would you expect everyone else to do the same. hehehe(just kidding)

    It does work out for some guys like that sometimes but I have to say I wouldn't expect it to if I were a newbie just starting out.The first woman a guy meets could be the one but IMHO, it is best to take the approach of planning on meeting many women.

  Researcher

[El Escéptico]

I don't know who you are and I am sure you are going to hide from telling us. But if you were one of the guys who I quoted my criticism stands as does my defense of AB. If you feel I am not suitable for giving advice on relationships you have plenty of my material to dispute. Please tell us what I wrote that you feel is wrong or bad advise.

Hide from you? not interested in posting my identity to an open board and to someone who I have no connection, interest, care, or concern. Let's me guess AB used your agency? So of course you have no interest in defending him. LOL Really now! My comment Jamie is not just about your words. Your article is very good, excellently written, with important information and incite. But tell us about you Jamie? Do you practice what you preach. How long have you been married? Tell us how all the knowledge you have gained has given you that diamond of a women? Words show the wit of a man, but actions his meaning. If you can tell me that all the knowledge you have gained has given you a long lasting successful relationship/marriage then I will take credence in what you say but if your out there looking of healing from a broken relationship then your just like the rest of us and your knowledge is impractical because even you can't apply it.

"The most important ingredient we put into any relationship is not what we say or what we do, but what we are. And if our words and our actions come from superficial human relations techniques  rather than from our own inner core , others will sense that duplicity. We simply won't be able to create and sustain the foundation necessary for effective interdependence. "
"It is not whether your words or actions are tough or gentle; it is the spirit behind your actions and words"

[Researcher]

  Well Esceptico, for someone who has no interest, concern or care for Jamie you certainly have alot of interest ,concern and care for Jamie.Or maybe you have a reason to hide and only want to put Jamie on the spot.Well, maybe I can help since I found,married and am still married to a Colombiana, which in your eyes makes one an expert.Jamie's advice is right on target and anyone would benefit by taking it.Hope that helps clarify.

  "You could get a good look at a T-bone steak by sticking your head up a bull's a$$ but wouldn't you rather just take the butcher's word for it?"


  Researcher

[fathertime]

Hide from you? not interested in posting my identity to an open board and to someone who I have no connection, interest, care, or concern. Let's me guess AB used your agency? So of course you have no interest in defending him. LOL Really now! My comment Jamie is not just about your words. Your article is very good, excellently written, with important information and incite. But tell us about you Jamie? Do you practice what you preach. How long have you been married? Tell us how all the knowledge you have gained has given you that diamond of a women? Words show the wit of a man, but actions his meaning. If you can tell me that all the knowledge you have gained has given you a long lasting successful relationship/marriage then I will take credence in what you say but if your out there looking of healing from a broken relationship then your just like the rest of us and your knowledge is impractical because even you can't apply it.

I don't know that Jamie's personal situation (whatever it is) is all that relevant.  He lives in Colombia with beautiful women crawling around him each and every day.  We are here in the USA, Canada, Europe, without these beautiful babes crawling all over us.  

You acknowledge his information is good in your post, so what does it matter if he follows his own good advice, his situation is different.  He may or may not be looking for a lasting marriage, whereas most of his clients and people populating this website are.  What he has written benefits these posters/clients.  His own personal goals, don't have to be equal to his clients in order for his advice to be valid and for his business to be strong.  Is there any specific advice you disagree with?

I don't think he singled you out when he made his initial post. He simply disagreed and cited the criticism that was piled onto AB.  You just happened to be the author of some of it.  Not a big deal.    

Fathertime!

[El Escéptico]

 Well Esceptico, for someone who has no interest, concern or care for Jamie you certainly have alot of interest ,concern and care for Jamie.Or maybe you have a reason to hide and only want to put Jamie on the spot.Well, maybe I can help since I found,married and am still married to a Colombiana, which in your eyes makes one an expert.Jamie's advice is right on target and anyone would benefit by taking it.Hope that helps clarify.

  "You could get a good look at a T-bone steak by sticking your head up a bull's a$$ but wouldn't you rather just take the butcher's word for it?"


  Researcher

Hogwash.  Next.

[Dan]

Hide from you? not interested in posting my identity to an open board and to someone who I have no connection, interest, care, or concern. Let's me guess AB used your agency? So of course you have no interest in defending him. LOL Really now! My comment Jamie is not just about your words. Your article is very good, excellently written, with important information and incite. But tell us about you Jamie? Do you practice what you preach. How long have you been married? Tell us how all the knowledge you have gained has given you that diamond of a women? Words show the wit of a man, but actions his meaning. If you can tell me that all the knowledge you have gained has given you a long lasting successful relationship/marriage then I will take credence in what you say but if your out there looking of healing from a broken relationship then your just like the rest of us and your knowledge is impractical because even you can't apply it.

"The most important ingredient we put into any relationship is not what we say or what we do, but what we are. And if our words and our actions come from superficial human relations techniques  rather than from our own inner core , others will sense that duplicity. We simply won't be able to create and sustain the foundation necessary for effective interdependence. "
"It is not whether your words or actions are tough or gentle; it is the spirit behind your actions and words"

EE,

Couple of comments regarding your post.

First of all - thank you for making a thoughtful and thought-provoking post. Your compliments of Jamie's information was probably more effusive than I might write - but - I have a VERY strong personal leaning toward individual choice and the personal freedom to take any route that works FOR THE PARTICULAR INDIVIDUAL. I found Jamie's page a bit too prescriptive, though if taken as merely input for a person to consider (then accept and reject the pertinent parts FOR THEM), it is well-done.

Next, in terms of the questions posed to Jamie about 'walking the talk' - that is entirely fair game - the question, that is. Whether or not the answers are given, or if they are given, whether they are relevant is an entirely different matter. Jamie is not a "public figure" in the sense of a celebrity or a professional athlete - but when someone takes on the mantle of offering public advice, it is natural to want to know if that person has any credibility in the topic.

Credibility does not necessarily mean that they are living examples of the principles/suggestions they espouse. Credibility can be earned in any number of ways - the one most often cited here at PL is the "success" of a marriage to a foreign partner - but that is not the only route to credibility.

There are research scientists who have made massive contributions to human-kind yet have virtually zero real-life experience in the topics of their expertise.

There are highly successful coaches who have never played at a high level in the sports they coach.

In fact - if you REALLY stop to think about it (not only you EE - I mean it as the collective 'you') - one of the isues that causes the greatest consternation at PL is over member's demands and/or challenges to other's credibility. How often do we see an opinion dismissed in the Latin forum because the author of the post is married to an Asian lady - and vice versa? How often do we see people citing that they really only pay attention to those who have made a bunch of trips or are married to a foreign lady etc.? And even more commonly, how often do we see relative newcomers who are berated by the more established members simply because the newbie has not 'earned their stripes' (whatever that means).

You see - this whole issue of "credibility" is THE primary source of argument on this, and on nearly any, internet forum.

It is a rather silly argument.

Jamie has an opinion and he expresses himself well on his site. He also owns an agency which adds a dimension to his motives for expressing those opinions that are not shared by everyone. This is not to dismiss Jamie in any way - it is merely an obvious statement of fact.

I happen to like Jamie. I think he is straight-up and forthright. I have also seen him be heavy-handed - more so than I am comfortable with. Jamie has his flaws as does everyone.

In this case, you took exception to some decisions made by another member. I happen to align with much of your perspective on that situation. That does not make AB's decisions wrong - for him. It means that AB's decisions would have been wrong for YOU - and maybe for me - and possibly for others - but so what?!? The fact that AB was forthcoming with his experiences and decision-making means that we ALL benefit by examining those decisions IN THE CONTEXT OF OUR OWN VALUES. From that, we can determine if there is anything we might learn, or not.

The part that I get upset with is the constant petty harping that leads to deterioration of otherwise useful topics.

At the end of the day (one of my favorite British idioms), your opinion is worthwhile and our members would be well-advised to listen and then adopt anything of value that works FOR THEM. The same can be said for Jamie's opinions. The same can be said for Alabamaboy's opinions. The same can be said for Ray's opinions. And the same can even be said for DaveH's opinions (j/k Dave - we love your warped humor).

This is the value of PL - when the diverse and sometimes conflicting opinions are expressed AND ACCEPTED with a genuine interest in learning something.

- Dan

[El Escéptico]

Well Fathertime it may not be relevant to you, but it most definitely is to me. I'm not taking Piano lessons from a guy who can only play Chopsticks. I think you get my point.

Hope all is going well with you....take care.

Dan thank you for taking the time out to respond. I agree 100% with what you wrote and I might add very eloquently. I will do my best to learn and keep you suggestions at heart and in my head when I post in the future.

[Researcher]

Hogwash.  Next.

   Oh don't run away, explain what is "hogwash" about it.It's alot easier to stand in the shadows and throw eggs.Come on out into the light and fill us in.Don't be afr



    Researcher

[Woody]

Woody, please feel free to criticize or question any points that you have doubts about.

Actually, after re-reading it to find those things that stood out, I couldn't find them. Hell, I couldn't even find the typo I saw the first time around (it was a word starting with the letter a, correctly spelled but the wrong word in context. Maybe you caught it and fixed it.) I think it may have been the shock the first time around, probably had to do with the whole education/worldview aspect. However, you articulated something that was bugging me for a while and I didn't quite know how to assemble into a solid concept.

I think the most unnerving part was the Q&A page that I read in the middle of reading the complete article. Caused me to do some self-reflection.

[fathertime]

Well Fathertime it may not be relevant to you, but it most definitely is to me. I'm not taking Piano lessons from a guy who can only play Chopsticks. I think you get my point.

Hope all is going well with you....take care.

Thanks, all is going well here,
But I don't get your point.  You if indeed agreed with what he wrote on his website, then what is the disagreement about? The page he wrote was harsh, perhaps overly so, is that what you complaint is?  After years in the biz it seems to me he has established credibility on the subject. 

Fathertime!

[Researcher]

Thanks, all is going well here,
But I don't get your point.  You if indeed agreed with what he wrote on his website, then what is the disagreement about? The page he wrote was harsh, perhaps overly so, is that what you complaint is?  After years in the biz it seems to me he has established credibility on the subject. 

Fathertime!

   Hey FT, this mystery poster seems only interested in attacking the source(Jamie).He isn't defending his point of view or offering any alternative to what Jamie wrote so I don't think you will get much out of him that is constructive or useful.


  Researcher

[Alabamaboy!]

Hide from you? not interested in posting my identity to an open board and to someone who I have no connection, interest, care, or concern. Let's me guess AB used your agency? So of course you have no interest in defending him. LOL Really now! My comment Jamie is not just about your words. Your article is very good, excellently written, with important information and incite. But tell us about you Jamie? Do you practice what you preach. How long have you been married? Tell us how all the knowledge you have gained has given you that diamond of a women? Words show the wit of a man, but actions his meaning. If you can tell me that all the knowledge you have gained has given you a long lasting successful relationship/marriage then I will take credence in what you say but if your out there looking of healing from a broken relationship then your just like the rest of us and your knowledge is impractical because even you can't apply it.

"The most important ingredient we put into any relationship is not what we say or what we do, but what we are. And if our words and our actions come from superficial human relations techniques  rather than from our own inner core , others will sense that duplicity. We simply won't be able to create and sustain the foundation necessary for effective interdependence. "
"It is not whether your words or actions are tough or gentle; it is the spirit behind your actions and words"

I have used Jamie's services in the past and can say that I was 100% satisfied. I have also met and dated Colombianas without his service in different cities, and have met many, many Colombianas online, in person, etc. So I think I have a pretty solid base from which to make my statements/observations.

[Alabamaboy!]

Excellent post Dan! This is a good thread because it is pulling together a few very important concepts in regards to the function of the forum, individuality, and decision making while pursuing an international relationship.

[Gato4Astrid]

I have read Jamie's information in "The Mistake Men Make" and there are many very good points but also some points that I wish to point out.

WRITING BEFORE MEETING:

Personally, I do not believe in agency.   I prefer to write woman before meeting.  It works for me far better than using the agency.  
"We have had clients write women months in advance of visiting and within one hour of meeting these women, for whom they had such high hopes, realize she's not the one. A two hour date can tell you more about your attraction and connection to a woman than months of writing"

In a way, you are right, but it does not tell us all about her, but having "Chemistry" isn't the only thing to keep the relationships working.  Men could get chemistry with any "bad" women.    

Some men do not want to spend thousands on many trips, and most importantly they cannot keep taking time off work all the time.    

[Researcher]

I have read Jamie's information in "The Mistake Men Make" and there are many very good points but also some points that I wish to point out.

WRITING BEFORE MEETING:

Personally, I do not believe in agency.   I prefer to write woman before meeting.  It works for me far better than using the agency.  
"We have had clients write women months in advance of visiting and within one hour of meeting these women, for whom they had such high hopes, realize she's not the one. A two hour date can tell you more about your attraction and connection to a woman than months of writing"

In a way, you are right, but it does not tell us all about her, but having "Chemistry" isn't the only thing to keep the relationships working.  Men could get chemistry with any "bad" women.    

Some men do not want to spend thousands on many trips, and most importantly they cannot keep taking time off work all the time.    

  Those are good points Gato but when you are only writing someone you don't get what someone is like completely, only what they want you to know.Writing is a good way to keep in contact with someone but I wouldn't rely on it completely.

  I would rather spend thousands on travelling in the beginning than several more thousands later in a divorce.

  Researcher

[El Escéptico]

Thanks, all is going well here,
But I don't get your point.  You if indeed agreed with what he wrote on his website, then what is the disagreement about? The page he wrote was harsh, perhaps overly so, is that what you complaint is?  After years in the biz it seems to me he has established credibility on the subject. 

Fathertime!

My point is that no man has any business business telling others/me how to find/build a relationship if he has not been able to do it himself. That's just my belief. It may not be yours or others but that's how I would choose the people I would take lessons from in life.

[El Escéptico]

   Hey FT, this mystery poster seems only interested in attacking the source(Jamie).He isn't defending his point of view or offering any alternative to what Jamie wrote so I don't think you will get much out of him that is constructive or useful.


  Researcher

I'm not going to try and defend my point with you Researcher because I don't like the tone of your posts. Look at Dan's post... when you can write like that I'll engage your positions.