secondary cities in Cafe Triangle

[Zon]

Anybody have any recent experience in Armenia; Periera; or, even Manizales (although I am not crazy about the weather in Manizales)?  Medellin and Cali are well documented by comparison.  There is very little on these secondary towns.  Cali is a blast, and I know Medellin is more sophisticated ... but, in truth, so is the city that I currently live in the USA.  I sort of like the more "old fashion" part of Colombia and the traditional Colombian culture.

I have two Colombian friends that have started businesses in Armenia in the last year.  I have one gringo friend that is planning to move his business from Cali to Periera.  They claim a more slow and clean lifestyle and a greater cost of doing business / living advantage as being the driving force.  (And, the fact that fewer gringos and less affluence, attracts more opportunities in emerging markets - big fish small pond.

However, I have another friend that has lived in Manizales for over 3 years, and reports a fast erosion of security over the last 12 months?

The point of this post is to collect recent impressions - pros and cons - of this region of Colombia where, in truth, fewer gringos visit.

[JimD]

Los Termales De Santa Rosa are still safe. Around Manizales only finca owners are at risk. Go to the Eje Cafetero and enjoy and invest.

[AndyLee]

When I moved to Colombia last year from USA I wanted to try all the regions to see which I liked best. So, I lived in Bogota, Barranquilla and Medellin. I visited Bucaramanga, Santa Marta, La Ceja and Cartagena. I am not a beach person so the heat and grit of the North Coast is not so appealing to me. The cold in Bogota and La Ceja did not appeal to me. Medellin is big, almost 4,000,000 population, noisy, crowded, polluted and muy expensive. Then I visited Armenia. Nice little city but saddened by all the deaths and destroyed properties from the last major earthquake. They have rebuilt a beautiful downtown with a Pedestrian mall that is many blocks long. I would live in Armenia but not as appealing to me as Pereira.
I moved to Pereira region three months ago and I like it here a lot. Pereira is a busy city but small and easily understood. seems safe as long as you keep your wits about you. Nice shopping in Exito, Carrefour, Home Center and several nice malls. Plenty to do and see in a city of about  500,000. Compared to Medellin and Bogota people in Pereira are friendlier, costs are lower by a lot. The bus terminal is small, the air port is small, there aren't tons of night clubs to hang out in, no big casinos, none of the big doings like going on in Bogota and Medellin.
Pereira has it's drug and crime problems just like any other small city in the world, but it seem to me to be a healthier, safer city than any of the others I've visited.
For my lifestyle, more traditional and less stressful, cleaner, better cost of living, closer to the farms and mountains for recreation, in my estimation Pereira is an all around nice place to live.
The one big drawback to Pereira is the rain. The nature of the climate means it rains a lot, usually quite hard in the early to mid afternoon. Granted, right now is the rainy season so it seems a little more pronounced, but its a fact of life that in Pereira it rains more than in Medellin or Bogota. Not an alarming thing, but one to consider if you like to do outdoor activities in the afternoon.
currently I live in a village of 8,000 people about 1.5 hours from Pereira. It costs $3.50 US to take the bus to go shopping, but, there are three small supermarkets in my town and I can buy just about anything I need here so I only go to Pereira infrequently. It is a special treat for me to take the bus toPereira, shop at Exito-Carrefour-Home Center, have a unique meal in the food court at Victoria Mall, then grab a bus back to my quiet little finca in the country.
I hope this is the kind of information you are looking for. I'll be happy to answer questions if I can.

[robert angel]

Hey AndyLee,

Nice post. That sounds like a lovely area, but I wonder if the cost and quality of keeping a residence, say 20 minutes from the metro area, versus 90 minutes away, is that much different? I guess maybe it sounds like I want to have my cake and eat it too, but while I like having my garden, some reasonable peace and quiet and recreation closer to my home--I like being 10 to 20 minutes --no more than 30 minutes, from malls, the historic district downtown and that sort of thing.

[AndyLee]

I lived for a week in the little village of Combia, about 8 km and 15 minutes by bus from center of Pereira. The rents in Combia are only about half what something similar would cost in Medellin.
In Pereira proper you can rent a decent 2 or 3 bedroom 2 bath apartment on a safe street for about $400,000-$600,000 pesos month. That's near the University section of the city, not too far from the bus terminal and within walking distance of downtown.
Comparatively, 90 minutes from Pereira, I rent a new, 4 bedroom 2 bath single family home on a finca for $300,000 month. I have fantastic mountain and valley views out of every window. I'm 1/2 mile from the center of my village, about a 10 minute walk each way. Quiet, peaceful, tranquil even, where I live.
It costs me $14,000 round trip bus fare to go shopping in Pereira, which I do about 2 or 3 times month. I enjoy the bus ride because of the beautiful scenery and I enjoy people watching as we motor through the countryside and pass through little villages.
There are several nice neighborhoods on the edge of Pereira, close enough to take the bus to center, or walk if you like exercise and have time. yet far enough out to be quieter and safer and less expensive than downtown.
Best way to know if you like an area is spend a week or more there and ride the bus everywhere it goes. In Pereira it is $1400 pesos to ride the bus from one side of the city to the other. A taxi costs about $7000 for the same journey.
Living in Pereira is not comparable in many ways to living in Bogota or Medellin. Pereira is a small city with only a few distractions. There aren't any big stores like Panamerica and there isn't any Bogota Brewing Company. But, still, the lifestyle is better suited for me.

[JimD]

Excellent report AndyLee! I too am outside a big city but only forty five minutes which means easy access to cine and nice restaurants when I want. I looked at property around Armenia, north to Filandia, southwest to Quimbaya etc. but problem there is these areas are popular with the narcos and they´ve run the prices up artificially. My ideal place would be in that valley with the river running through that you drop down into from the Coffee highway just before starting up the mountain to Salento. Maybe you know it.

[Zon]

good solid, timely info!  Thanks.

A couple follow-up questions from what you have posted:

1, elaborate on narcos and other groups: safety and social affect.  What about the higher class / business class of these areas?  When you say increase price, what exactly do you mean.  For example, my friend just moved a business from Cali to Armenia, and says that rents are 30 - 50 % less expensive for business and residential.

2, I am attracted to rural, simple living 60 % of my time in Colombia, but I do not want cabin fever either!  Also, although I truly enjoy "real people", I value educated people capable of a world view / modern life.  Can you comment on the people in these regions.

Gracias

[JimD]

Narcos have bought up a lot of fincas in the eje cafetero region (areas mentioned above). They have a lot of money to throw around (maybe launder) so have paid prices way higher than the avaluos of the properties. They are not known to be great neighbors either. If they want to throw a party and block off the road to your finca for day or two not much you can do about it. These are complaints I heard from people in the area.

[fathertime]

When I moved to Colombia last year from USA I wanted to try all the regions to see which I liked best. So, I lived in Bogota, Barranquilla and Medellin. I visited Bucaramanga, Santa Marta, La Ceja and Cartagena. I am not a beach person so the heat and grit of the North Coast is not so appealing to me. The cold in Bogota and La Ceja did not appeal to me. Medellin is big, almost 4,000,000 population, noisy, crowded, polluted and muy expensive. Then I visited Armenia. Nice little city but saddened by all the deaths and destroyed properties from the last major earthquake. They have rebuilt a beautiful downtown with a Pedestrian mall that is many blocks long. I would live in Armenia but not as appealing to me as Pereira.
I moved to Pereira region three months ago and I like it here a lot. Pereira is a busy city but small and easily understood. seems safe as long as you keep your wits about you. Nice shopping in Exito, Carrefour, Home Center and several nice malls. Plenty to do and see in a city of about  500,000. Compared to Medellin and Bogota people in Pereira are friendlier, costs are lower by a lot. The bus terminal is small, the air port is small, there aren't tons of night clubs to hang out in, no big casinos, none of the big doings like going on in Bogota and Medellin.
Pereira has it's drug and crime problems just like any other small city in the world, but it seem to me to be a healthier, safer city than any of the others I've visited.
For my lifestyle, more traditional and less stressful, cleaner, better cost of living, closer to the farms and mountains for recreation, in my estimation Pereira is an all around nice place to live.
The one big drawback to Pereira is the rain. The nature of the climate means it rains a lot, usually quite hard in the early to mid afternoon. Granted, right now is the rainy season so it seems a little more pronounced, but its a fact of life that in Pereira it rains more than in Medellin or Bogota. Not an alarming thing, but one to consider if you like to do outdoor activities in the afternoon.
currently I live in a village of 8,000 people about 1.5 hours from Pereira. It costs $3.50 US to take the bus to go shopping, but, there are three small supermarkets in my town and I can buy just about anything I need here so I only go to Pereira infrequently. It is a special treat for me to take the bus toPereira, shop at Exito-Carrefour-Home Center, have a unique meal in the food court at Victoria Mall, then grab a bus back to my quiet little finca in the country.
I hope this is the kind of information you are looking for. I'll be happy to answer questions if I can.

Damn that is great information Andylee.

Fathertime!

[AndyLee]

Before I discovered this little village called Santuario (the Sanctuary) I was all set to rent an apartment at the edge of Pereira. There is a little section there called Parque Industrial, which is an absolute misnomer, there is no Industrial Park but there are quiet side streets, incredible long distance views in all directions, only minutes by foot into the mountains on a hundred different trails, and only minutes by bus from central Pereira. I would live in Parque Industrial in a heartbeat.
However, in response to your question about the valley before Salento, yes, it is a gorgeous place. There is a similar valley on the other side of Pereira going north. I swear it reminds me of the best parts of the Shenandoah Valley in Virginia where I used to live. Really long distance pastoral views, ringed with mountains, just beautiful, sparsely populated but only 20 minutes to Pereira.
As for finding world class conversation, yes, it's a prerequisite of mine, too. I've lived on 4 continents so far and I have a much different view of world affairs than your average redneck....anyway, the biggest reason I chose Santuario is because of 3 new Colombian friends who live here, two of whom lived off and on in Canada for many years, (one is professor at university in Montreal) and the other who lived in Richmond, Virginia for many years.
I have another new friend from Pereira who is British but has lived in Colombia since '91. He has the best collection of early rock n roll of any I've ever seen. He teaches here in Santuario two days a week so I always plan to have at least beer or dinner with him every week.
Then yet another new friend in Pereira who was born in USA but grew up in Brazil and has lived in Colombia for 6 years. All these new friends are college educated and world traveled and have a huge range of interests so cultured, intelligent conversation is readily available.
There seems to be something special about the coffee region so I plan to stay here one full year. I will still continue traveling throughout the country looking things over. Every once in a while I hear about a new area I'd like to see. Lately I heard about a village of Anapoima about 60-80 km west of Bogota that claims to have the world's most perfect weather. Hmmmm, think that might be worth checking out? http://www.colombianparadise.com/destinations/anapoima-colombia.html

[John W]

Great posts AndyLee.  Thanks for sharing the information.  I have been to Salento and Valle de Cocora, and that area is stunning.  Driving through Quindio I took some back roads and saw some amazing fincas.  Your description of the areas outside of Pereira sounds similar.  El Eje Cafetera is an amazing area, and living on a finca there sounds great.  However, I am curious about the potential downsides with security and safety.  A member (Been There/Gerry/Son of Piddy) here and on other sites posted a little about his experience owning a finca outside of Cali.  I think the gist of his post was that finca owners in general and especially foreign finca owners are targets of shakedowns by local narcos/mafiosos.   

[fathertime]

Looks like this Andylee character is a goldmine of information about Colombia.  Out of curiosity, what kept you away from a city such as Cali?

Fathertime!

[JimD]

John W lots of foreigners own and live on fincas both in Quindio and Valle De Cauca (including Cali outskirts). They (we) are not targets for shakedowns or other threats. Certainly there are other areas such as Chocó department where a foreign finca owner  could be at risk.

[AndyLee]

Looks like this Andylee character is a goldmine of information about Colombia.  Out of curiosity, what kept you away from a city such as Cali?

Fathertime!

Just haven't gotten to Cali yet, perhaps January I'll go.....I'm really am enjoying traveling around Colombia...I've been to Bogota 2 weeks, Bucaramanga 1 day, Santa Marta 1 day, Barranquilla 1 month, Cartagena 1 week, Medellin 3 months, La Ceja 1 week, Armenia 2 days, Pereira 1 week and Santuario, Risaralda (1.5 hours from Pereira) for 3 months where I live full time. I'm from Missouri and Virginia in the USA.
As I have money available and as my Spanish improves I want to continue traveling around this beautiful Colombia. I want to see the plains and the Amazon and go higher in the mountains, and see the Pacific Coast. It will take me a while to see it all.
I'm new on the P-L forum and am enjoying reading a LOT of good posts with an incredible range of information, not only about my chosen country Colombia, but other places in the world. I've lived in Asia, North America, Europe and visited Central America, the Mediterranean and the Caribbean, but I'm pretty convinced Colombia is the best I've seen so far in terms of climate and terrain, and of course beautiful women. Fathertime, you too have a wealth of information and a steady manner, I enjoy and appreciate reading all your posts. There are a lot of good posters on this forum with a lifetime of experiences to share.

[utopiacowboy]

Just haven't gotten to Cali yet, perhaps January I'll go.....I'm really am enjoying traveling around Colombia...I've been to Bogota 2 weeks, Bucaramanga 1 day, Santa Marta 1 day, Barranquilla 1 month, Cartagena 1 week, Medellin 3 months, La Ceja 1 week, Armenia 2 days, Pereira 1 week and Santuario, Risaralda (1.5 hours from Pereira) for 3 months where I live full time. I'm from Missouri and Virginia in the USA.
As I have money available and as my Spanish improves I want to continue traveling around this beautiful Colombia. I want to see the plains and the Amazon and go higher in the mountains, and see the Pacific Coast. It will take me a while to see it all.
I'm new on the P-L forum and am enjoying reading a LOT of good posts with an incredible range of information, not only about my chosen country Colombia, but other places in the world. I've lived in Asia, North America, Europe and visited Central America, the Mediterranean and the Caribbean, but I'm pretty convinced Colombia is the best I've seen so far in terms of climate and terrain, and of course beautiful women. Fathertime, you too have a wealth of information and a steady manner, I enjoy and appreciate reading all your posts. There are a lot of good posters on this forum with a lifetime of experiences to share.

I noticed that you left out Manizales. Any reason for that?

[JimD]

A L Pacific coast. Yes by all means check out Nuquí and Bahia Solano. There are direct flights from Pereira. And for a romantic (and pricey) geteway with your girl try Capurganá.

[fathertime]

Just haven't gotten to Cali yet, perhaps January I'll go.....I'm really am enjoying traveling around Colombia...I've been to Bogota 2 weeks, Bucaramanga 1 day, Santa Marta 1 day, Barranquilla 1 month, Cartagena 1 week, Medellin 3 months, La Ceja 1 week, Armenia 2 days, Pereira 1 week and Santuario, Risaralda (1.5 hours from Pereira) for 3 months where I live full time. I'm from Missouri and Virginia in the USA.
As I have money available and as my Spanish improves I want to continue traveling around this beautiful Colombia. I want to see the plains and the Amazon and go higher in the mountains, and see the Pacific Coast. It will take me a while to see it all.
I'm new on the P-L forum and am enjoying reading a LOT of good posts with an incredible range of information, not only about my chosen country Colombia, but other places in the world. I've lived in Asia, North America, Europe and visited Central America, the Mediterranean and the Caribbean, but I'm pretty convinced Colombia is the best I've seen so far in terms of climate and terrain, and of course beautiful women. Fathertime, you too have a wealth of information and a steady manner, I enjoy and appreciate reading all your posts. There are a lot of good posters on this forum with a lifetime of experiences to share.

Thanks fort the explanation regarding Cali.  I'm going to have to agree with you, the various people with specific knowledge on this forum has been excellent, I'm glad you decided to visit us. 
Man o man, it is damn nice to have the money to buy that sort of freedom. If I'm in that same situation financially when the last of my non Colombian kids are grown, I'd be way up getting into a finca in Colombia.  I love growing avocados here in California and the Colombian avocados are even bigger and better tasting then the store-bought ones here!  That is a way off though and who knows what might change in the interim. 

Fathertime!

[AndyLee]

I noticed that you left out Manizales. Any reason for that?

Well.....my friends who have been to Manizales say it is cold, like Bogota, which I'm not partial to anything colder than 1500m elevation. I spent a week in La Ceja one hour outside Medellin at 2100m elevation and loved the vistas and the people but didn't care for the coolness.
However, I might be drawn to Manizales for the universities. I'm partial to an academic feel and the number of universities in one small city is impressive. Probably 1/3 of the population is either a student or associated in some way with one of the Universities (just a guess).
I'm reminded of where I lived in Lexington, Virginia in the Shenandoah Valley. Three universities in a county with a population of only 25,000. The inside joke was that 1/2 the people in that county have written books and the other half have never read a book. I'm not saying that's true of Manizales, though, just a poke at my old community.
I hope to visit Manizales within the next few weeks, I'll let you know how it goes.