Riots in the streets 2008-2013 style.

[euforia51]

Maybe a good thing is that this will be a wake up call to politicians and encourage them to implement austerity measures.

I'm not holding my breath. I believe there will be more of the same and very little will get done until after the election next year; and even that is a stretch. The best thing one can do is get themselves out of debt as fast as possible and stash some cash away to help soften any blows that may be coming; if they haven't already. We should have all be living this way in the first place...
 
Still, it could be worse. They could put sanctions against Colombia and the Phillipines, tax International airfares into oblivion, tell us we can't go there to look for wives anymore, and force us all crawling back to AWs ... and like it. 

[Colgando]

 
Still, it could be worse. They could put sanctions against Colombia and the Phillipines, tax International airfares into oblivion, tell us we can't go there to look for wives anymore, and force us all crawling back to AWs ... and like it. 

Man, that is depressing, I think I am going to have nightmares tonight....nooooooooooooooooo.....leave us international wife hunters alone Mr. PResident, you got enough problems.....jjejejjejeje   

[fathertime]

The obozo administration is trying to discredit S & P now.  Calling them amateurs, talking about 2 trillion dollars mistakes they made, and Barney Frank already said ‘not to listen’ to them.


China is now telling us to cut our military…they own us….we owe them more than 1trillion dollars…and they said today that we can no longer borrow our way out of problems.


This is a pretty big deal in my opinion, the downgrade has further exposed us. The S & P was not going to let our govt. try to intimidate them any longer and talk them out of the much deserved downgrade.  Much of our economy was exaggerated  and is actually pretty hollow…we were able to borrow  in part because of our large GDP, but the GDP is  a BS number and others are figuring that out.


I'm very curious and a little concerned how this plays out first this monday, and for the long term.  Austerity measures might really impact the enjoyment for some people, depending on what freedoms we lose.


Fathertime!

[euforia51]

This is a pretty big deal in my opinion, the downgrade has further exposed us.
...

I'm very curious and a little concerned how this plays out first this monday, and for the long term. Austerity measures might really impact the enjoyment for some people, depending on what freedoms we lose.

You're absolutely right that this is a big deal. But is it enough to pull Congress from it's recess to reconvene and get something done? Heck no. Listen, if I my small business was circling the drain  and I could save it by buckling down, making some sacrifices, and changing a few bad habits, you'd better believe there would be no vacation until it was stable again.
 
China is absolutely right to tell us that the good old days of borrowing are over. They are absolutely right to call us out, lecture us, and go to the extent of embarrassing us. We owe them serious money! What would you do if your neighbor across the street borrowed $1000 bucks and wasn't making any efforts to pay you back; but had new cars sitting in the driveway, a professionally manicured lawn, and was coming home with shopping bags full of crap every week? Your blood would be boiling, I promise you.
 
It's obvious there's going to be some real pain coming. Hell, it's already started. But still the marketing machine continues to churn on TV with Buy Now! No Payments! No Interest! Beckoning to the broke and entitled to come oil its jaws. Congress is out on recess. And the population at large would sit seemingly helpless and pissed off. Just how serious is the situation? The truth, a plan, and an effort would be nice ... for a change.
 
 

[Colgando]

The obozo administration is trying to discredit S & P now.  Calling them amateurs, talking about 2 trillion dollars mistakes they made, and Barney Frank already said ‘not to listen’ to them.


China is now telling us to cut our military…they own us….we owe them more than 1trillion dollars…and they said today that we can no longer borrow our way out of problems.


This is a pretty big deal in my opinion, the downgrade has further exposed us. The S & P was not going to let our govt. try to intimidate them any longer and talk them out of the much deserved downgrade.  Much of our economy was exaggerated  and is actually pretty hollow…we were able to borrow  in part because of our large GDP, but the GDP is  a BS number and others are figuring that out.


I'm very curious and a little concerned how this plays out first this monday, and for the long term.  Austerity measures might really impact the enjoyment for some people, depending on what freedoms we lose.


Fathertime!

Riots in the streets one way or the other, to one severity or another. The US has to build out a substantial poor class with people falling off the govt benefit programs, one way or another, by choice or by market forces. It is going to be painful. It sucks that the govt cannot correct itself like the free markets do, get rid of excess, find newer and better ways to do things and then build back up to something sustainable, more productive and efficient. Thankfully, this is a global economy and world will not go into a new dark age, the overwhelming majority of Americans will still have jobs, it is just going to suck to be the tens of millions of people that have no opportunity.

[euforia51]

...the overwhelming majority of Americans will still have jobs, it is just going to suck to be the tens of millions of people that have no opportunity.

Think about this ... there's a statistic out there that says something to the effect that immigrants are 4 times as likely to become millionaires than native born Americans. Why? Because they have the heart, soul, and desire that Americans used to have. They will take a crappy job and work their ass off. They will take what they earn and save it. They will drive around in a crappy car instead of a new one. And they typically have way more hurdles to overcome ... including language barriers. To them, just being here is an opportunity.

[fathertime]

Another thing I don’t agree with is this notion that we always have to be “GROWING”.   It is like a damn Ponzi scheme.  Our resources are limited, yet today I listened to T Boone Pickens saying that we don’t need to worry that ‘demand’ is still there for oil and the price will pick up.  He acts like ‘demand’ is a good thing.   I’ve heard others talking about demand for this and demand for that, again acting like that is a good thing.  Well I don’t think demand for goods is a good thing.  I think it is better if supply outstrips demand.  As a consequence, I’d like to see our economy DEFLATE and less ‘demand’ should be encouraged.  It is completely jackassacle for us our ridiculous leadership to continue to promote consumption.    I know that is how our society is situated but that is going to change sometime, I hope.   One problem is our retirement system only works if we are ‘growing’…it also is a ponzi, waiting to go bust.


Imagine if nice houses here in decent neighborhoods cost 50k instead of 400k.   If a plummer cost 20 bucks instead of 160.  A college textbook cost 10 bucks instead of 175.   Prices for everything are inflated. 


Fathertime!

[Researcher]

Hey Rese: Note that I said I agree that Investment Bankers were a part of the problem. Interesting, Greenspan did not take any responsibility for the easy monetary policy he promoted, which spurred record low interest rates and made it easier to borrow money, for everybody in the economy, banks and consumers.


Just pushing back against people who want to blame the fat cats on wall street only, personally, I take issue with the real estate appraisers and real estate agents who helped to drive up the prices, and of coarse, in-sufficient regulation that allowed companies to sell these exploding mortgages to people, sub-prime product, no income verification products, no asset verification products, option to pay mortgages etc. I also look to greedy consumers whose eyes were bigger than their wallet. Sure, Wall Street did provide demand for these assets, so that is a part of the problem. You can also look to investors in the bond market who loaned investment banks money to fund these MBS, greedy, even when the numbers did not support these business models, see Lehman brothers, their creditors are getting pennies on the dollar on the money they loaned Lehman Brothers. There are many people that made billions shorting the mortgage industry, so it was possible to see through the bad numbers on this.

       Yes Colgando there is plenty of finger pointing but to me the final blame lies with the government for not regulating or paying any attention to  this.Just like ol' Bernie Madoff.His Ponzi Scheme was huge because people had thier heads buried in the sand.Just like the illegal immigration problem that we have because the laws aren't being enforced.No one can even say how many illegals are here.It could be 10 or 20 million or maybe 22 million.Too many folks with their heads buried in the sand or up their arses!!

   

  Researcher

[Researcher]

China is now telling us to cut our military…they own us….we owe them more than 1trillion dollars…and they said today that we can no longer borrow our way out of problems.

Fathertime!

    Oh no, not our warm and fuzzy friends China! The emerging market that all the free marketeers worship because of the cheap labor!! I have to laugh at the folks that praise China. Many of them worship at the alter of free markets but thier hero, China, is a communist country! hehehe!

    Researcher

[Researcher]

Think about this ... there's a statistic out there that says something to the effect that immigrants are 4 times as likely to become millionaires than native born Americans. Why? Because they have the heart, soul, and desire that Americans used to have. They will take a crappy job and work their ass off. They will take what they earn and save it. They will drive around in a crappy car instead of a new one. And they typically have way more hurdles to overcome ... including language barriers. To them, just being here is an opportunity.

     Hey Euforia, you are partially correct but look into tax breaks and small business loans for immigrants and you will see they have a definite advantage.

     Researcher

[Researcher]

The obozo administration is trying to discredit S & P now.  Calling them amateurs, talking about 2 trillion dollars mistakes they made, and Barney Frank already said ‘not to listen’ to them.



Fathertime!

    Of course FT this is what Oblamer (Obama) does, he doesn't take responsibility for anything.It's also Bush's fault even though we are pretty far into Obama's term.

     Researcher

[thekfc]

Both the Isarael & Saudi stock market open to huge loses - trading in Tele Aviv trading was halted..

http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/2011/08/07/israel-exchange-halted-saudi-stocks-crashing-5-opening-50981/

[Colgando]

Both the Isarael & Saudi stock market open to huge loses - trading in Tele Aviv trading was halted..

http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/2011/08/07/israel-exchange-halted-saudi-stocks-crashing-5-opening-50981/

Monday may be a bloodbath in the US markets, big sigh, hopefully we will get some buying at the end of the day to provide a new support level for the markets.....

[no comment]

The obozo administration is trying to discredit S & P now.  Calling them amateurs, talking about 2 trillion dollars mistakes they made, and Barney Frank already said ‘not to listen’ to them.

This is a pretty big deal in my opinion, the downgrade has further exposed us. The S & P was not going to let our govt. try to intimidate them any longer and talk them out of the much deserved downgrade.  Much of our economy was exaggerated  and is actually pretty hollow…we were able to borrow  in part because of our large GDP, but the GDP is  a BS number and others are figuring that out.

On the other hand the rating agencies blew the call on so many companies prior to their downfall.  Enron, Lehman Bros., Bear Stearns, Countrywide, etc.   If they can't call the obvious, what good are they?

[euforia51]

     Hey Euforia, you are partially correct but look into tax breaks and small business loans for immigrants and you will see they have a definite advantage.

Perhaps this might be the case, Researcher ... but I think you're going to be hard-pressed to find very many immigrant millionaires who did it because they had an advantage, or upper hand if you will over an American, with tax breaks. Small business loans? Maybe ... but tax breaks? No way. Besides, everyone knows the really good tax breaks don't come around until after you're rich. Just ask Warren Buffet, or GE.    The point of my comment was in response to Colgandos's talking about the millions of people "with no opportunity."

[fathertime]

On the other hand the rating agencies blew the call on so many companies prior to their downfall.  Enron, Lehman Bros., Bear Stearns, Countrywide, etc.   If they can't call the obvious, what good are they?

i find it ironic that the USA is now castigating the s&p because it did not downgrade those companies like Lehman Bros, when we all know damn well that the rating agencies were receiving lots of pressure from our govt. to NOT downgrade those companies at the time.     we have lost our ability to intimidate these rating agencies any longer so now our govt is criticizing them and trying to destroy their credibility.  i'm not fooled.


Fathertime!

[Alabamaboy!]

Let's make some predictions for how the market will look at the end of the trading day tomorrow. I will predict
-300 pts.

[Colgando]

Perhaps this might be the case, Researcher ... but I think you're going to be hard-pressed to find very many immigrant millionaires who did it because they had an advantage, or upper hand if you will over an American, with tax breaks. Small business loans? Maybe ... but tax breaks? No way. Besides, everyone knows the really good tax breaks don't come around until after you're rich. Just ask Warren Buffet, or GE.    The point of my comment was in response to Colgandos's talking about the millions of people "with no opportunity."

Hey Euphoria: Structural unemployment/underemployment is going to be a problem in the US for some time to come. The housing and construction industries will be a drag on employment and the economy for a while I suspect, several years to a decade maybe. Many immigrants made their money in the construction industry, low-skilled, can work of the books, etc., so when I say no opportunity, I mean there will be a lot of low-skilled workers without any work in their trade/craft. The military is poised to shrink, even now, I read it takes a year or so just to get to boot camp after someone enlists in the military. It is going to be a tough go for a lot of people in the US, a lot of hard working people with nothing to build.

[euforia51]

Hey Euphoria: Structural unemployment/underemployment is going to be a problem in the US for some time to come. The housing and construction industries will be a drag on employment and the economy for a while I suspect, several years to a decade maybe. Many immigrants made their money in the construction industry, low-skilled, can work of the books, etc., so when I say no opportunity, I mean there will be a lot of low-skilled workers without any work in their trade/craft. The military is poised to shrink, even now, I read it takes a year or so just to get to boot camp after someone enlists in the military. It is going to be a tough go for a lot of people in the US, a lot of hard working people with nothing to build.

I hear ya, Colgando ... my comment was from coming off a high after watching one of those motivational speakers who is an immigrant (ducking from the tomatoes). But listen, I was thinking about this for the past couple of days. It seems alot of entrepreneurial websites are claiming you can make it big by using Facebook and other social networks, blah, blah, blah to advertise your small business of doing freelance writing, etc. So it's apparent to me that the crafts/trades are dwindling. We hear alot about how the younger generation doesn't know how to do very much except operate an X-Box and utter the words "Can I take your order?" So if someone does know how to weld, build houses, or do even a trade that is specialized, etc. why can't he be successful? I realize you weren't saying that. And it will in fact be a tough go of it for the masses. But dare I suggest, and shame on me, that many within those masses who do have some talent and skill are just plain lazy and/or unmotivated...

[euforia51]

Let's make some predictions for how the market will look at the end of the trading day tomorrow. I will predict
-300 pts.

Bama, I think you're being generous. I gave it a little thought before you suggested making a prediction and was thinking more along the lines of -1000; simply because the media will blow this out of proportion.

[Colgando]

Let's make some predictions for how the market will look at the end of the trading day tomorrow. I will predict
-300 pts.

I have no clue, if there is an economic report coming out, that might exacerbate the situation.


Dow Futures down 300 points I just saw....whhheeeeew....it is going to be a wild ride on Monday, people are going to come out dumping stocks on Monday. Stocks will be on sale, so we may see buying in the afternoon, then another round of sell-offs....whew, I am glad I am not a day trader, that is a little too hectic for my taste.

[Alabamaboy!]

Well I don't think we will need to guess much longer because the Asian markets should be opening soon, then Europe will play off that. And with Europe already in a mess, if Asia looks bad, Europe will probably really take a dump. And with us batting clean up, we will probably get taken down along with them even if we do not have any inherently horrible economic reports. Everything is just tied together so close.

[fathertime]

I can't remember ever seeeing the dow futures -300.   I'm curious to see if Obozo tries to get out in the morning and say something to try to calm the markets.  I'm a little concerned about how exactly this downgrade is going to cascade through our economy.  Somehow, I think that weird events that we couldn't predict are much more likely to happen now.  I'm not necessarily talking about tomorrow, but over the next few months.


Fathertime! 

[michaelb]

I can't remember ever seeeing the dow futures -300.   

October 19, 1987 it dropped a little over 500 points, which was over 20% of what it started the day at. I know first hand.....that's the day my wife called me and said "The man from the stock broker office called. What's a margin call, and why am supposed to give him $2000?"

[fathertime]

October 19, 1987 it dropped a little over 500 points, which was over 20% of what it started the day at. I know first hand.....that's the day my wife called me and said "The man from the stock broker office called. What's a margin call, and why am supposed to give him $2000?"

I remember that day as well!  Were the futures off by 300 points before the day started though?   


Can you imagine if the stock market fell by 22% now?  The tsunami sirens would be going off and even the cartoon network would have 'special reports' on  "The Great Stock Crash 2011"!


Fathertime!