Riots in the streets 2008-2013 style.

[Researcher]

     The debt deal has been passed and the markets still took a tumble...why? Because consumers aren't spending and jobs look bleak.The over 9% unemployment is starting to catch up with the economy.This is all near an election year so it will be interesting to see what propping up the govt. will try now.

      Researcher

[Alabamaboy!]

Huh? Exactly as he had planned?
 
Did Osama plan on having the top of his head blown off and his brains splattered all over the wall by a Navy SEAL? Did he plan on having his stinking corpse dumped into the sea and fed to the sharks by the US Navy?
 
Personally, I think Osama was a dumbass and grossly underestimated our will to follow through until we killed every one of his stinking kind.
 
Furthermore, Osama was a dumbass for thinking that the Pakistani Government could protect him from the Americans.
　
Osama was a dumbass for staying in one place for such a long time. If he wanted to live, he should have stayed in his cave with the bats.
　
Osama was a dumbass for leaving all of that evidence in his house for us to pick up and take with us. What was that moron thinking anyway?
　
Bring on the next dumbass…

 
 
　Ray

These guys do not think about one guy, one life, one generation. They look at the big picture, maybe a century, 2 centuries. And with that in mind, they are doing just fine against a gigantic behemoth as the United States. Look at what is happening all over the world. Does it seem like the US or Europe is going up or down? The "Western" economies are collapsing one by one. And that is what he said would happen.

In the meantime their populations are exploding. And are gaining more and more share of the world population as time goes on.

[fathertime]

These guys do not think about one guy, one life, one generation. They look at the big picture, maybe a century, 2 centuries. And with that in mind, they are doing just fine against a gigantic behemoth as the United States. Look at what is happening all over the world. Does it seem like the US or Europe is going up or down? The "Western" economies are collapsing one by one. And that is what he said would happen.

In the meantime their populations are exploding. And are gaining more and more share of the world population as time goes on.

The United States certainly isn’t ‘winning’ the war vs terrorists in Afghanistan, When everything is factored in, I bet we have wasted trillions, and at the end of the day there will be no stability in Afghanistan.  Once the military leaves the terrorists will regroup and plan some sort of revenge.  Bin Laden is no longer alive, I don’t see what else we can realistically do now.  The wars have helped to ruin our nation’s finances.   Hopefully future wars will be fought differently and in a way where we don’t ruin ourselves in order to ‘win’.


I've often heard the line, They (being terrorists) are jealous of our "way of life", I've never really believed that line to be true.  I figured they had their reasons, but that is too bad, this world can be dog eat dog.  Instead of shooting the dog, our form of warfare is more like slapping the dog on the butt with a newspaper, which just enrages the dog and gives him a chance to bite us...I guess we need to be fast and ruthless in war. 


Fathertime! 
Fathertime! 


Fathertime! 

[fathertime]

What do you guys predict with the showdown on the debt ceiling? I think they will raise taxes on the $500K and above folks, close some of the President's pet peeve loopholes (to make it appear to common folk that he is doing something significant) such as the personal jet tax benefits, eliminate cash given to big oil, maybe $2 trillion in cuts....which probably will never happen anyway...but they will raise the debt ceiling.

I think the Republicans are too weak to hold their ground against the President and will just crumble in their resistance. I thought that Boener guy was a pretty straight shooter and could handle his business, but at this time he seems like a pansy who gets star struck when he is behind closed doors with the President.

hey AB,
Your prediction wasn't too far from the truth.
We will see in the next few months about the tax increases for the people making over 500k
Fathertime! 

[fathertime]

Frankly I'm starting to believe that higher education is not worth the cost in many cases.  You hear about poor idiots that get art or photography degrees and they are in debt 120K i have no ideal how the hell they are going to pay that back with interest.  These outrageous student loans can be a form of slavery just like being saddled with a huge mortgage.  I am going to try like hell to focus my kids for college and not encourage them to get a degree if it is just going to be a worthless piece of toilet paper... there are fields that are good that require a specific education and that is what I would like to gear my kids towards.


Fathertime!

I had to take the dreaded action of quoting MYSELF here.  I found out how the young ladies are paying off their 100k college loans and the website is called Seeking Arrangement, apparently it is pretty popular, and those old guys are "Just trying to help" they are real 'philanthropists'!  Some of the ladies actually have convinced themselves that this is not prostitution!
 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/29/seeking-arrangement-college-students_n_913373.html
Fathertime!

[Ray]

These guys do not think about one guy, one life, one generation. They look at the big picture, maybe a century, 2 centuries. And with that in mind, they are doing just fine against a gigantic behemoth as the United States. Look at what is happening all over the world. Does it seem like the US or Europe is going up or down? The "Western" economies are collapsing one by one. And that is what he said would happen.

In the meantime their populations are exploding. And are gaining more and more share of the world population as time goes on.

These guys?
 
You were talking about Osama Bin Laden and he is a dead piece of shyt rotting in Davey Jones' Locker with the crabs chewing on his worthless crotch.
 
He really believed that we didn't have the stomach to continue this war against the jihadists after what happened in Lebanon and Somalia. George Bush proved him wrong and Obozo at least had the balls to kill the little prick when the opportunity presented itself.
 
FT is an isolationist who wants to save billions of dollars by weakening our military. What are we going to spend those billions on? More welfare for the lazy a-holes, another 3 years of unemployment benefits for the dumbasses who aren't even looking for work, for more pay and benefit raises for the overpaid unions?
 
I do believe that we will be going to war with Iran one way or another in the not-to-distant future. Do we want to take them on with a strong military and existing bases next door to them. or with a weaker military with no presence in the region and Iran with nukes? Of those 2 scenarios, which is your choice FT?
 
Ray
 
 

[fathertime]

 
 
FT is an isolationist who wants to save billions of dollars by weakening our military. What are we going to spend those billions on? More welfare for the lazy a-holes, another 3 years of unemployment benefits for the dumbasses who aren't even looking for work, for more pay and benefit raises for the overpaid unions?
 
I do believe that we will be going to war with Iran one way or another in the not-to-distant future. Do we want to take them on with a strong military and existing bases next door to them. or with a weaker military with no presence in the region and Iran with nukes? Of those 2 scenarios, which is your choice FT?
 
Ray

Hey Bozo! 
I'd be happy to respond to your questions as soon as you respond to the questions I asked you on response 606 of this thread a few days ago. 


Fathertime! 

[euforia51]

I found out how the young ladies are paying off their 100k college loans and the website is called Seeking Arrangement, apparently it is pretty popular, and those old guys are "Just trying to help" they are real 'philanthropists'!  Some of the ladies actually have convinced themselves that this is not prostitution!
 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/29/seeking-arrangement-college-students_n_913373.html

I didn't read the story here (yet) but I did hear about it on the radio today. There's no doubt the insane cost of education and student loan system is a grim shackle to the cube for the up and coming. How about getting your Associates degree from a community college first; and then transferring for your Junior and Senior years once you finally have an idea of what you think you want to do with your life; buying your books used; going in-state, etc. These are much cheaper alternatives. How about working a part time job while you're going to school? How about getting up and showing some initiative to get on-board with a company and having the company pay your tuition? Here again, we the consumer are biting off way more than we can chew. But to be whoring yourself out to supposedly pay your student loans is absurd and shows a lack of creative, resourceful, and critical thinking.

[utopiacowboy]

These guys?
 
You were talking about Osama Bin Laden and he is a dead piece of shyt rotting in Davey Jones' Locker with the crabs chewing on his worthless crotch.
 
He really believed that we didn't have the stomach to continue this war against the jihadists after what happened in Lebanon and Somalia. George Bush proved him wrong and Obozo at least had the balls to kill the little prick when the opportunity presented itself.
 
FT is an isolationist who wants to save billions of dollars by weakening our military. What are we going to spend those billions on? More welfare for the lazy a-holes, another 3 years of unemployment benefits for the dumbasses who aren't even looking for work, for more pay and benefit raises for the overpaid unions?
 
I do believe that we will be going to war with Iran one way or another in the not-to-distant future. Do we want to take them on with a strong military and existing bases next door to them. or with a weaker military with no presence in the region and Iran with nukes? Of those 2 scenarios, which is your choice FT?
 
Ray

If we had any brains, we would give Israel the green light to destroy Iran and India the green light to do the same to Pakistan. We spend more on defense then every other nation on the globe combined and this "strength" is destroying the US. Like the USSR before us, the USSA is spending itself into oblivion.

[fathertime]

  But to be whoring yourself out to supposedly pay your student loans is absurd and shows a lack of creative, resourceful, and critical thinking.

That is the most ironic part of the whole college education issue.  A good reason to go to college for young ladies is so they DON"T have to whore themselves out, yet because of the ridiculous cost of college, the young ladies wind up whoring themselves out to pay student loans, instead of for drugs or rent.   


If a student is going to be burdened with 100k loan after college, they better damn well be employable when they are done! 

Fathertime! 

[euforia51]

That is the most ironic part of the whole college education issue.  A good reason to go to college for young ladies is so they DON"T have to whore themselves out, yet because of the ridiculous cost of college, the young ladies wind up whoring themselves out to pay student loans, instead of for drugs or rent.   


If a student is going to be burdened with 100k loan after college, they better damn well be employable when they are done! 

Employable ... I'm thinking Doctor, Lawyer ... or Politician! 

[Alabamaboy!]

You were talking about Osama Bin Laden

One man, Osama Bin Laden, has cost the most powerful country in the world TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS. And has put us on the ropes economically.

And how ironic, that largely because of him personally motivating others, and our hunt to kill him,  our country has no choice but to make drastic cuts in military spending, thus leaving us weaker than before to defend against future attacks.

Do you think this was just coincidence or something??? He released a video saying he was going to do exactly what has happened.

Do the math man, we are pretty much toast at this time. The economy is quickly losing what little steam it had previously built up. There will be many, many more jobs lost. Taxes coming into the federal government will be stagnant or declining. And the deficit will continue to climb higher and higher. With a weak military, crappy economy, declining tax base, increasing deficit, we are in for a hell of a rough ride.

This was the easy part. Wait until next year. I think we still have a long way to drop before we hit rock bottom. The cuts that will be made are just pocket change compared to what really needs to be done to fix things with the budget. But the cuts are going to also result in massive job losses. But the longer we use the smoke and mirrors to hide all the problems, we will never be able to rebuild our country and its economy. It is obvious after watching this debt ceiling debacle, that neither party is yet ready to put down the crack pipe.

[Researcher]

If we had any brains, we would give Israel the green light to destroy Iran and India the green light to do the same to Pakistan. We spend more on defense then every other nation on the globe combined and this "strength" is destroying the US. Like the USSR before us, the USSA is spending itself into oblivion.

      I agree.There are many other ways to deal with our enemies.Besides the way the US is throwing money at our problems via the military we are in so much debt that soon we will need to ask China's permission to go to the crapper let alone go to war!

       Researcher

[Researcher]

I didn't read the story here (yet) but I did hear about it on the radio today. There's no doubt the insane cost of education and student loan system is a grim shackle to the cube for the up and coming. How about getting your Associates degree from a community college first; and then transferring for your Junior and Senior years once you finally have an idea of what you think you want to do with your life; buying your books used; going in-state, etc. These are much cheaper alternatives. How about working a part time job while you're going to school? How about getting up and showing some initiative to get on-board with a company and having the company pay your tuition? Here again, we the consumer are biting off way more than we can chew. But to be whoring yourself out to supposedly pay your student loans is absurd and shows a lack of creative, resourceful, and critical thinking.

           Part of the problem with student debt is there is a new trend where corporations are buying private schools and revamping them.Now, I'm not criticizing companies that are privatizing colleges because they have improved some on them.But we have another situation similiar to the mortgage crisis brewing.And here we go again with the blame game.

         Some will say it is the student's fault for borrowing too much.That is partly true but just like housing used to be an education is looked at as an investment that is very safe.Truth is it has just became less safe.In the past people bought houses any way they could because it was a safe bet and then we had the combination of Fannie and Freddie and mortgage backed securities that fueled a bubble that didn't break, it exploded.Now we have corporations pushing federal loans and some are using questionable practices, like having degree programs that lack accreditation so students that finish can't work in the field they borrowed money for and worked to get a degree in.Is that the student's fault for not checking? Partly, but many schools lie to these students.

       Some will say it is these evil corporations fault for tricking students.That too is partly true but for the most part corporations have done things like put teachers on 1 year contracts so they can get rid of them if they don't perform.These corporations are doing what companies do: make profit.But they are also pushing their employees to enroll as many students as they can and this sometimes makes for dishonest practices.The best thing is for students to be aware and really checkout these schools.

      This situation has potential to be a popping bubble soon in the student loan arena.The good news is that investment bankers haven't gotten involved to create toxic assets that could threaten the entire banking system.So it won't be as big a disaster as the mortgage crisis.

      Researcher

[Researcher]

That is the most ironic part of the whole college education issue.  A good reason to go to college for young ladies is so they DON"T have to whore themselves out, yet because of the ridiculous cost of college, the young ladies wind up whoring themselves out to pay student loans, instead of for drugs or rent.   


If a student is going to be burdened with 100k loan after college, they better damn well be employable when they are done! 

Fathertime!

     Hey FT, these young women are turning to prostitution to pay for college? So stripping doesn't pay enough anymore or what?   I guess things are tough all over!

      Researcher

[fathertime]

Well well well , another stock crash today….long overdue….i’m curious to see the ‘cooked’ number we get for a jobs report tomorrow…it is all bullshyt:
1. GDP..bs
2.  Unemployment %…bs
3. real estate prices….bs
4. college diplomas bought instead of earned….bs
 
5. reason for Libyan bombing (and eventual invasion)….bs
6. free cellphones for welfare recipients on taxpayer nickel…bs


What am I forgetting here?




Fathertime!

[euforia51]

But we have another situation similiar to the mortgage crisis brewing.And here we go again with the blame game.
...
         Some will say it is the student's fault for borrowing too much.That is partly true but just like housing used to be an education is looked at as an investment that is very safe.
...
      This situation has potential to be a popping bubble soon in the student loan arena.The good news is that investment bankers haven't gotten involved to create toxic assets that could threaten the entire banking system.So it won't be as big a disaster as the mortgage crisis.

Well, if you're spending 50K or more to get a degree to be a film maker, I'd say it's the student's fault. What are the odds that you're going to be the next Spielberg? With that kind of change, you'd better be breathing, eating, and crapping making movies in your spare time.
What seems to be lost in the whole college degree mess is a lack-luster love of your chosen field. Nursing seems to be a big thing right now because the money's good. Now how many are wasting good coin to go be a nurse because it pays well vs. how many are going into it because they feel it's their calling in life? There are probably aren't any stats on this but I'm going to venture to say the nurse who got in it for the coin might have a more difficult time looking for work. It could be a nurse, an engineer, a film maker, etc. I'm of the school that teaches part of being successful in what you do comes from having a love for it in the first place.
 
Now there's little doubt that companies are marketing and potentially bankrupting the uninformed and it's a sin. And as I understand it, Sallie-Mae is the federally backed student loan maker (similiar to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac) and it is also ineligible to be written off in bankruptcy like credit cards and other consumer debt. So that means anyone with student loan debt they can't pay are burdened with this for life (or until it's paid for). FT said it best ... if you're going to sink a boat load of money into a college degree, you'd better be employable when you graduate.

[Colgando]

           Part of the problem with student debt is there is a new trend where corporations are buying private schools and revamping them.Now, I'm not criticizing companies that are privatizing colleges because they have improved some on them.But we have another situation similiar to the mortgage crisis brewing.And here we go again with the blame game.

         Some will say it is the student's fault for borrowing too much.That is partly true but just like housing used to be an education is looked at as an investment that is very safe.Truth is it has just became less safe.In the past people bought houses any way they could because it was a safe bet and then we had the combination of Fannie and Freddie and mortgage backed securities that fueled a bubble that didn't break, it exploded.Now we have corporations pushing federal loans and some are using questionable practices, like having degree programs that lack accreditation so students that finish can't work in the field they borrowed money for and worked to get a degree in.Is that the student's fault for not checking? Partly, but many schools lie to these students.

       Some will say it is these evil corporations fault for tricking students.That too is partly true but for the most part corporations have done things like put teachers on 1 year contracts so they can get rid of them if they don't perform.These corporations are doing what companies do: make profit.But they are also pushing their employees to enroll as many students as they can and this sometimes makes for dishonest practices.The best thing is for students to be aware and really checkout these schools.

      This situation has potential to be a popping bubble soon in the student loan arena.The good news is that investment bankers haven't gotten involved to create toxic assets that could threaten the entire banking system.So it won't be as big a disaster as the mortgage crisis.

      Researcher

Well, one major difference between mortgage loan products and student loan products is that student loans have forbearance and deferment options, both public and private loans, whereas mortgage loan products do not. So, unless they change this, most students coming out of college who do not find a job will not have to start paying the money back, the interest does accrue on the loan. Once they get a job, the graduate will have the money to pay back the loan, although they will probably be squeezed with stagnant and low wages. Further, the public loans have very good rates, private loan rates are higher. I could see these student loan liabilities preventing people from buying a house, or that new car, or having that fancy wedding, when they eventually get a job. This is not similar to the mortgage crises, IMO, primarily because the graduate does not have to pay the money back if they do not have a job.


Also, investment bankers did not create the toxic assets. Traditional investment banks do not take deposits and lend money to consumers, that is reserved for traditional retail and commercial banks. By the time investment bankers get their hands on the mortgage loan asset, the loan has already funded, the investment banker plays in the secondary market, not the primary market. The investment banker chops up and securitizes the asset, they do not create it, or fund the asset. Look to the mortgage lenders (Retail Banks) and mortgage brokers for the people who executed the loan documents with the customer, thereby creating the asset. Investment bankers buy the asset, chop it up and sell it at a profit. I suppose one could argue that investment bankers promoted the securitization of bad assets, thereby are contributers to the problem, I can agree with that, but the line is very, very long of the people responsible for the mortgage meltdown. Of coarse, it is easy to blame wall street for the world's problems.

[euforia51]

Well, one major difference between mortgage loan products and student loan products is that student loans have forbearance and deferment options, both public and private loans, whereas mortgage loan products do not. So, unless they change this, most students coming out of college who do not find a job will not have to start paying the money back, the interest does accrue on the loan. Once they get a job, the graduate will have the money to pay back the loan, although they will probably be squeezed with stagnant and low wages. Further, the public loans have very good rates, private loan rates are higher. I could see these student loan liabilities preventing people from buying a house, or that new car, or having that fancy wedding, when they eventually get a job. This is not similar to the mortgage crises, IMO, primarily because the graduate does not have to pay the money back if they do not have a job.

These are good points also worth mentioning, Colgando. But the fact remains, these loans cannot be written off and must be paid back sooner or later. And a graduate can carry these things around for years and years and years ... and all while the interest clock is ticking. Ít's very sad, IMO; because being in debt to that extent is stifling to ambitious and creative efforts it takes to make a fulfilling lifestyle. It wears you down and steals your soul. But there is a better way... take the community college route I mentioned a few posts up ... put off the buying a house for a few years ... get married at the courthouse ... and for god's sake ... buy a used car! Buying a new car on an entry level salary is lethal. I am floored when I hear about some of these people making $500 / month car payments for 5-6 years and are flat broke. It just doesn't make sense.

[Alabamaboy!]

People think I am crazy, but I always say that the "car culture" of the US is one of the biggest cancers of this country. And I love cars. But wow, look around. It is absolutely nuts how much money is wasted on cars, gas, insurance, tags, upkeep. Almost every one of my employees have shot themselves in the foot for the next 4-5 years with car purchases. They are virtually financially paralyzed at this time.

[euforia51]

People think I am crazy, but I always say that the "car culture" of the US is one of the biggest cancers of this country. And I love cars. But wow, look around. It is absolutely nuts how much money is wasted on cars, gas, insurance, tags, upkeep. Almost every one of my employees have shot themselves in the foot for the next 4-5 years with car purchases. They are virtually financially paralyzed at this time.

I think it's far from crazy. And dare I say they'll be financially paralyzed for a long time to come if they keep on trading in and trading up ... like they're suppose to. As a population, we have come to just accept having car payments as a way of life. But I'll be the first to tell you, there's nothing like the freedom of not having one. There's nothing like not ever having to worry that you're lifeline on 4 wheels is going to end up on the back of a repo-man's flatbed if you can't make the payment for some reason.

[michaelb]

Student loans are a racket run by and for the benefit of both those providing the product and those providing the financing......If the vendors (colleges) weren't so positive that their customers (students) could borrow $100,000 to finance their product, then their product surely wouldn't cost $100,000, it could only cost how much the students have access to through savings, part time employment or scholarships..........not how much the usurers are willing to lend them.

Current system works great for both the colleges, who can (and do) inflate their prices to consume all available money and those providing the money, with government guarantees and no discharge through bankruptcy protecting them.......doesn't work too awfully well for the students.

Be that as it may, in reference to the Seeking Arrangement article, a word or two to Ms. Jennifer and her ilk: No matter how thin you slice it, it's still bologna, and no matter if you spend your earnings on college expenses, your mother's health care or opium, it's still prostitution and you are a whore. 

[Researcher]

Well, one major difference between mortgage loan products and student loan products is that student loans have forbearance and deferment options, both public and private loans, whereas mortgage loan products do not. So, unless they change this, most students coming out of college who do not find a job will not have to start paying the money back, the interest does accrue on the loan. Once they get a job, the graduate will have the money to pay back the loan, although they will probably be squeezed with stagnant and low wages. Further, the public loans have very good rates, private loan rates are higher. I could see these student loan liabilities preventing people from buying a house, or that new car, or having that fancy wedding, when they eventually get a job. This is not similar to the mortgage crises, IMO, primarily because the graduate does not have to pay the money back if they do not have a job.


Also, investment bankers did not create the toxic assets. Traditional investment banks do not take deposits and lend money to consumers, that is reserved for traditional retail and commercial banks. By the time investment bankers get their hands on the mortgage loan asset, the loan has already funded, the investment banker plays in the secondary market, not the primary market. The investment banker chops up and securitizes the asset, they do not create it, or fund the asset. Look to the mortgage lenders (Retail Banks) and mortgage brokers for the people who executed the loan documents with the customer, thereby creating the asset. Investment bankers buy the asset, chop it up and sell it at a profit. I suppose one could argue that investment bankers promoted the securitization of bad assets, thereby are contributers to the problem, I can agree with that, but the line is very, very long of the people responsible for the mortgage meltdown. Of coarse, it is easy to blame wall street for the world's problems.

Colgando, do you know who Brooksley Born is? She was the chairperson of the CTFC from 1996 to 1999.She wanted to be able to monitor off exchange market for derivatives because they were basically unregulated and secretive. She warned that this could cause potential problems and was told to stop pushing the issue. Larry Summers told her that if she didn't stop she would cause the biggest economic crisis since the end of WWII. So she stopped. Now we've had the biggest economic crisis since the Great Depression.

    You say that investment bankers don't deserve blame for the mortgage mess but Alan Greenspan disagrees with you.Here is a quote from a wikipedia article:


"In Congressional testimony on October 23, 2008, Greenspan finally conceded error on regulation. The New York Times wrote, "a humbled Mr. Greenspan admitted that he had put too much faith in the self-correcting power of free markets and had failed to anticipate the self-destructive power of wanton mortgage lending. ... Mr. Greenspan refused to accept blame for the crisis but acknowledged that his belief in deregulation had been shaken." Although many Republican lawmakers tried to blame the housing bubble on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, Greenspan placed far more blame on Wall Street for bundling subprime mortgages into securities."

  Here is an article that this reference was based on:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/24/business economy/24panel.html

    Surely there is enough blame to go around but the size of the mess was fueled by the global demand for these mortgage backed securities that were created so there was a push for more and more of them.But if you really get down to it the government failed to regulate or at least oversee this situation. Too much regulation is very bad because it stifles the free market. No regulation is bad because of situations like the mortgage crisis can happen. I think a "hands off by the government" policy is the best but the government at least needs to be aware of what is going on or we'll end up with more of the same bubbles that we have had.

   Researcher

[Researcher]

Well, if you're spending 50K or more to get a degree to be a film maker, I'd say it's the student's fault. What are the odds that you're going to be the next Spielberg? With that kind of change, you'd better be breathing, eating, and crapping making movies in your spare time.

   That's the typical example of saying the student is to blame and it is only partially true.We are talking about education here.The coveted stepping stone to prosperity.Things have changed.There are examples of people going to college for nursing but they can't get a job.Why? Because the school lied about thier credentials. I remember seeing one story about a woman who got a PHD in Psychology only to find out that the college she chose wasn't accredited so her $100,000 degree is worthless.

    My wife wants to go to college here.I think it is a good idea so we have been looking into schools.After talking with a few schools I did some digging and I have to say some of them will flat out lie to you and it is the ones with high tuition that push federal student loans.I'm not saying that students are completely blameless but there are definitely some predatory practices going on.

       Researcher

[Researcher]

I think it's far from crazy. And dare I say they'll be financially paralyzed for a long time to come if they keep on trading in and trading up ... like they're suppose to. As a population, we have come to just accept having car payments as a way of life. But I'll be the first to tell you, there's nothing like the freedom of not having one. There's nothing like not ever having to worry that you're lifeline on 4 wheels is going to end up on the back of a repo-man's flatbed if you can't make the payment for some reason.

   I agree with you Euforia.Buying a new car is a rip off.Before I worked for an auto manufacturer I had only bought one new vehicle and if I didn't get the employee discount I wouldn't be buying new ones now.I always like to have more than one vehicle.My wife and I have 3 now, 2 of them are paid for.

    Researcher