Riots in the streets 2008-2013 style.

[Researcher]

     We don't have full scale riots yet but it looks like FT's prediction could be right on the mark.



    Researcher

[fathertime]

       It's unbelievable that this country is going down the tubes and people are standing by and watching it happen. When someone does try to do something people take to the streets in protest.Everyone should sacrifice something, God knows the nonunion private sector has taken a beating now its time for government workers to sacrifice.


       Researcher

well researcher i'm going to have to agree with you here, our society has learned not to give an inch or sacrifice for the greater good, we are bitterly divided and without a certain unity we are doomed...and i might add rightfully so.

i'm not seeing anything positive happening...i just saw that the false GDP number for the 4th quarter that we were given a while back was quietly revised down today, probably on page 55 of the wall street journal...revised downward around 15%, that is not a small miss, from 3.2 to 2.8%  totally predictable, i wonder what that sort of thing does to all the expected revenues that will never materialize for the govt...soon our yearly deficit will be 2 trillion.

Fathertime!

[no comment]

I'm stocking up on Mayan calendars for 2012.  They're sure to be collector's items as there won't be any more after that.

[Researcher]

      I just happen to catch a call in talk radio show this afternoon. They were talking about the protests in Wisconsin. Several callers were just plain P.O. 'd about the state wanting to take away bargaining rights from the Union. Seems to me something needs to be done but these folks were really angry. Riots may not be far off.

    Researcher

[piglett]

      I just happen to catch a call in talk radio show this afternoon. They were talking about the protests in Wisconsin. Several callers were just plain P.O. 'd about the state wanting to take away bargaining rights from the Union. Seems to me something needs to be done but these folks were really angry. Riots may not be far off.

    Researcher

they claim to be teachers , can any of them do 3rd grade math?
you know 2 minus 3 = whoops not enough 

pig

[Researcher]

     That's the thing Piglett, the callers were from all over the US and they were pissed.


      Researcher

[fathertime]

      I just happen to catch a call in talk radio show this afternoon. They were talking about the protests in Wisconsin. Several callers were just plain P.O. 'd about the state wanting to take away bargaining rights from the Union. Seems to me something needs to be done but these folks were really angry. Riots may not be far off.

    Researcher

I am not entirely onboard with stripping away the union's collective bargaining.  I would be very happy if they agreed to take pay cuts and/or layoffs, and benefit cuts.  I don't know that they need to have their collective bargaining rights stripped in order for this to happen. I'm open to hearing more on that particular issue. That being said, we are going to have a world of problems if anytime there is a major disagreement one side walks out and prevents a quorum.  That precedent is going to have to be squashed somehow and Obama should be condemning the tactic, regardless of what side of the issue he is on.  

Fathertime!  

[Jedironin]

I agree with you FT, the problem is that the Unions WON'T agree to ANY reductions! That's why we're in this mess to begin with...    On the other side, though, the politicians see a precedent, "Oh, you let us reduce this last year, so it must be okay if we reduce it more this year, right?" They tend to go overboard with the "give them an inch and they'll take a mile" as well, so how do you find reasonable compromises with two sides that usually are not reasonable?

I also agree that the Democrats who walked out should be punished for it. There are already Democrats in Indiana who have pulled the same stunt...    Do they understand the meaning of Dereliction of Duty and the word IMPEACHED?! Let me call my boss today and tell him I'm not coming in to work today, because I'm afraid he'll demand that I DO MY JOB. Any guesses how that will go over?   

[fathertime]

I also agree that the Democrats who walked out should be punished for it. There are already Democrats in Indiana who have pulled the same stunt...    Do they understand the meaning of Dereliction of Duty and the word IMPEACHED?! Let me call my boss today and tell him I'm not coming in to work today, because I'm afraid he'll demand that I DO MY JOB. Any guesses how that will go over?   

You know if Obama were to take a strong stand regarding the walkout, they would probably be back in the office voting the next day.  Obama is supposed to be leading this country.  I'd give the president credit if he were to put politics aside and tell those fellow democrats to be present for the vote.  By enabling this walkout to occur he is making matters worse and showing absolutely no leadership.  If he EVER expects others to stop 'playing politics' he should be setting the painful example, but he is not behaving like a good leader and he can expect that the rest of society will follow suit. 

 I don't know who is the right person for the job of president, but I'm more and more convinced that Obama is definitely the wrong person for this job.

[Jeff S]

You guys DO know that federal workers had their right to collective bargain stripped away in the late 70s by Jimmy Carter and a Democrat congress? I don't hear them whining too loudly.So Obama certainly cannot do anything but give lip service to the unions. Besides the Feds cannot nor should not interfere with how the states run their states. It is strictly forbidden by the constitution.

The big difference between public and private employees unionizing and collective bargaining is that in the private companies, the union sits on one side of the table to represent the workers, and  management sits on other to represent the stockholders, those footing the bill. In a public employees union, the union sits on one side of the table to represent the public servants, to negotiate with a public servant, who the union helped elect. Who's there to represent the taxpayer who has to foot the bill?

[Researcher]

   I agree that the Feds shouldn't tell states how to run their state. Tell that to Arizona. It wasn't long ago that the Feds were meddling in their business. Government unions don't really make sense.


      Researcher

[fathertime]

   I agree that the Feds shouldn't tell states how to run their state. Tell that to Arizona. It wasn't long ago that the Feds were meddling in their business. Government unions don't really make sense.


      Researcher

I also prefer that the feds don't interfere in state issues.  This Wisconsin thing is more of a govt. breakdown then the underlying issue and I think that the president should make a strong statement about the governmental breakdown that is happening. 

Like researcher said, Obama had to open his big mouth and crawl right up AZ's a$$ about their laws regarding immigration, yet he won't say a thing to these congress members that are dodging the vote.  I'm convinced he is more concerned about politics then actually being a good leader. 

I'm starting to see why these public employee unions are dangerous and corrupt.  The people footing the bill need to be represented in the negotiations.

Fathertime!

[Bob_S]

yet he won't say a thing to these congress members that are dodging the vote.

Of course not!  A major funding source for the Democrats is unions, and most union workers are government employee union workers.  There's no way in hell that Barry O. will do anything that might cut the power of the government workers' union which is just what will happen if the Democraps now on vacation hiding out of state show up in the state house to form an official quorum.  They know they are on the losing side of the vote and nothing they say in debate can change the minds of the Repubs who are itching for a chance to kill the cow of free money the Dems have been milking for decades.

[Ray]

Jeff had it exactly right!

The unions, particularly public employee unions, have become nothing more than a major wing of the Democratic Party.

The unions fund the election campaigns of the Democrats, who in turn give them whatever they want.

So you end up with Democrat Union bosses sitting across the table from the Democrat politicians who are in their pockets, “negotiating” on how to screw the taxpayers.

California is effectively run by the unions and they ran the state into the ground.

Screw the unions!

Ray

[fathertime]

Jeff had it exactly right!

The unions, particularly public employee unions, have become nothing more than a major wing of the Democratic Party.

The unions fund the election campaigns of the Democrats, who in turn give them whatever they want.

So you end up with Democrat Union bosses sitting across the table from the Democrat politicians who are in their pockets, “negotiating” on how to screw the taxpayers.

California is effectively run by the unions and they ran the state into the ground.

Screw the unions!

Ray

i'm going to have to agree with you guys on this one...the unions, esp. the teachers union in this state only care about themselves...ultimately their bloated benefits will have to get picked up by the taxpayer...a teacher practically has to rape a student in order to be fired and even then it isn't easy, they just store the bad teachers in a special room where they get paid their full salary to sit around and play checkers with each other.

i was just reading about how the latest unemployment number was once again skewed and fudged to get it to 8.9%...as a bunch of people simply dropped out of the workforce....we are currently at the lowest % of people working in almost 30 years..only 64.2% of the people are working.  Most people are not going to examine the number in too much depth, so the majority of people will say, "wow I guess things are getting better"  Real better, the cheapest gas station in my neighborhood is $3.85 for regular unleaded... You know what is sorta funny about that, is that when the govt. measures GDP, they will say our economy is 'growing' but all the growing we are doing is spending money on gasoline from overseas...

Fathertime!

[afj56]

I don't know why President Obama comes under so much criticism.  The Republicans don't want to work with him.
President Obama isn't perfect.  But who is?  President Obama is definitely better for the U.S.A. than our previous
President.

I am a School teacher in Maryland, U.S.A.  I have worked for my benefits.  People need to think about a school teachers salary, which needs to be increased.  We are educating our future.

[Jeff S]

Nonsense. Republicans want to work with Obama. What Republicans don't want, nor any of the people who voted them in, is to scrap the ideas this country was founded on and took it to be #1 in the world, in favor of a socialist agenda that have proven to be a failure every time it's been tried.

Why should teachers receive more pay? Isn't any commodity worth what someone is willing to pay? Should you be forced to pay $10 a dozen for eggs when people will gladly sell you them fir $3? Why should you pay a teacher $100,000 a year when plenty of equivalently competent people will line up to take it for $50,000?

State education bureaucracies have tier after tier of non-teachers also administrating, or doing whatever they do. Add this to the current teacher pay and  and it's no wonder private schools in California give students a better education for about $5000 per student per year than state schools give for about $13,000 per student per year.

Enter the unions and regulatory bodies who close off who can enter for no other reason than to protect their jobs. According to the rules in most states and of course the unions, Paul McCartney couldn't teach Music, Bill Gates couldn't teach Computer Science and J. K. Rowlings couldn't teach Writing. Some system you have, there.

Personally, I have no problems with great teachers making great salaries and benefits, even more than they make now, just as I don't have any problem with great engineers, great writers, great athletes, or great surgeons, living large applying their natural and developed skills. I just have a problem with typical union socialism - everyone makes the same - everyone gets paid the same, no one can be sent packing - the highly motivated and skilled, as well as the incompetent boobs.

The answer is to privatize the schools. Costs go down, quality of the product goes up, and job satisfaction for the workers improves greatly every time it is tried. It works.

[piglett]

I don't know why President Obama comes under so much criticism.  The Republicans don't want to work with him.
President Obama isn't perfect.  But who is?  President Obama is definitely better for the U.S.A. than our previous
President.

I am a School teacher in Maryland, U.S.A.  I have worked for my benefits.  People need to think about a school teachers salary, which needs to be increased.  We are educating our future.

are you saying if we pay you 5 times as much you will do 5 times as good of a job ? i don't think so


piglett

[afj56]

are you saying if we pay you 5 times as much you will do 5 times as good of a job ? i don't think so


Piglett,

I didn't say that.  Everyone knows that School teachers are underpaid in the U.S.A.

[euforia51]

Everyone knows that School teachers are underpaid in the U.S.A.

Here's a noble thought that should take both sides of the politics out of this topic and put the responsibility where it really belongs ... if yoú're so concerned about being under-paid and wanting to make more money ... why did you become a teacher in the first place?

[afj56]

Here's a noble thought that should take both sides of the politics out of this topic and put the responsibility where it really belongs ... if yoú're so concerned about being under-paid and wanting to make more money ... why did you become a teacher in the first place?

Euforia,

I became a teacher to help others.  Definitely, not for the money.  At this time teachers pensions are under attack in Maryland, U.S.A.  I am just trying to protect what I have worked for.  It is definitely up to me to make a living for myself and my family.  Just as it is for everyone else.  I'm not crying.

[euforia51]

Here's a noble thought that should take both sides of the politics out of this topic and put the responsibility where it really belongs ... if yoú're so concerned about being under-paid and wanting to make more money ... why did you become a teacher in the first place?

Euforia,

I became a teacher to help others.  Definitely, not for the money.  At this time teachers pensions are under attack in Maryland, U.S.A.  I am just trying to protect what I have worked for.  It is definitely up to me to make a living for myself and my family.  Just as it is for everyone else.  I'm not crying.

OK so everything that you have worked for personally ... your livelihood, your home, your car, your savings, and everything else that is directly within the limits of your control, you are trying to protect ... and flourish I'll also add. Great. Now help me out because I'm a little uneducated with regards to teachers pensions being under attack.

Are these pensions not a perk or benefit that comes with along with the salary of being a teacher, much like a financial bonus may also come to an employee of a typical private company if that company is making money?

For the typical peasants in a private operation, (and I use the term in jest to refer to those being lower tier blue collar and white collar workers who are non-union ... and yes, I am a peasant) and based on company policies, bonuses are paid when the company is making money, 401K company matches are paid when the company is making money, health insurance is paid when the company is making money.

Any of these perks can and will be taken away at any time if it is determined that the company is losing money. This is usally done to help the company survive and also to save your job. If you don't like it, you leave and find something better or more suitable. That's usually how it works in the private sector. An employee is not entitled to perks and benefits nor are these perks and benefits guaranteed.

Now with that said, I am all for you protecting the things you are working for as an individual just as much as I am all about anyone who is working hard and earning more money as a reward for that hard work. But if I'm hearing you right, I think you're going to have hard time getting any compassion out of anyone because the benefits you've been receiving are coming under attack because the company you're essentially working for is falling on hard times and needs to make some cuts in perks to survive and maybe also save your job.

[afj56]

Euforia51,

In Maryland, the recession has caused us to have a budget shortfall.  It has been proposed, to cut teachers pensions, to make up for the budget shortfall.  We as teachers feel that there are other areas that can be cut to balance the budget.

afj56

[euforia51]

It has been proposed, to cut teachers pensions, to make up for the budget shortfall.  We as teachers feel that there are other areas that can be cut to balance the budget.

Boy, that's a pickle, isn't it? In the private sector that might sound something like this:
We as engineers were told we have to take a 5% pay cut because the company isn't making as much money as it should be in order to survive ... because of the recession.

But we, as engineers, think the company's Marketing department personnel should take a 10% cut ... so the engineers don't have to take a 5% cut. Because it's not the engineer's fault the company isn't making enough money ... it's the recessions fault.

[fathertime]

I didn't say that.  Everyone knows that School teachers are underpaid in the U.S.A.

i don't agree that the average teacher is underpaid...working less then 9 months a year + 10 sick days is an incredible deal.  Many teachers are done by 3pm and once a teacher has their curriculum established, it isn't very time consuming to tweak it every so often.  The top pay in California is 80-90k in many districts.  Average salary in CA is about 64K and in your home state of Maryland it is 58k...those numbers are from 2006.  When teachers can retire and earn 70k+ (Plus cost of living adjustments) for 30 years, I don't see that as sustainable, the public is getting fleeced. 

I like the idea of privatizing education.
http://712educators.about.com/od/jobopenings/tp/teacherpay.htm

Fathertime!