Riots in the streets 2008-2013 style.

[El Escéptico]

I was the #5 poster on this thread. Granted you were #3 I believe, but look at what you wrote.....classic as usual. The comment I was referring to by Ray (not your post) was a normal response. And Ray was talking about prisons, not fire and police departments.  When the people are saying "good, who cares?, etc." when their state is in the worst shape financially, by far, that is basically the reason they are in that situation. Is there a problem saying that? It is the truth.

Can you try and act mature for just one day?

[robert angel]

I think Ray uses his own bullets and then reloads them with extra strength powder---I've been looking and salivating over the Desert Eagle 50 caliber hand guns, but I think Ray would find more use for them than me----they definitely can stop criminals from repeating their crimes. If the prices come down enough, maybe we can send him one.

That said, even though we know that most drug rehab stints don't stop druggies from going back to their old ways after they get out of the slammer, even if it does get 20% to quit dope and slows down another 20%, it'd save a lot of money, reduce repeat crime and prison space.

This is not an unusual case, but I know a kid who was a 17 year old honor roll student and star athlete (what's unusual is he was pro baseball draft material)--anyway--he was out cruising with four guys and they pulled into a 'convenience store and one got out and with handgun, held up the place. They were caught at the next stop light. Real career criminals, wouldn't you say?


This kid was back in the car, stupidly oblivious to the crime--I know the family--the kid's grand dad is in the baseball hall of fame--with no prior criminal record, was given the mandatory ten years in jail at age 17. he even knew Farsi--an Arabic language he learned for fun and the Army told the court that they'd allow him to enlist, but the Judge said: "NO--TEN YEARS--NO PAROLE."

Pot is not good--it's become so strong in most cases, that you're more intoxicated after smoking a joint than if you quaffed a whole six pack of beer. Still, I don't think if you're caught with an ounce, that means you're automatically more than a personal user, breaking into homes, strong arm robbing people and for even a first offense, should go to jail on felony charges.

If an 18 y/o high school senior is caught in the back seat with a  willing 17 y/o high school junior, he can be --and they sometimes are--arrested on felony underage sex charges and put on the sex offender registry. That is not right.

People usually come out of USA jails in worse shape than they entered, better trained in criminal ways. Few actually complete vocational or academic programs available. They get out and with criminal, often felony records, are basically unemployable. There is little rehabilitation.

We have way too many people in jail on offenses that don't warrant it and not enough thugs who repeat violent, armed crimes and somehow get out and repeat them again and again who need to be locked away w/o cable TV privileges, weight rooms , air conditioning and conjugal visitation rights.

I accidental came across an online site that for a fee, will help you find your 'love match' from a long list of men and women behind bars for serious offenses. I was appalled.

I know some people are saying 'well-- you can't have it both ways--having your cake and eating it too'. Or that giving junkies free needles and syringes like Switzerland does, or cheap, legal methadone instead of heroin, isn't the answer either.

I think that most of us do think--the crime victims and tax payers alike--think that the criminal justice system and prison system is really screwed up and locking em up and throwing away the key isn't the answer.

[robert angel]

Re:

>>If we were all allowed to carry weapons on the flights,<<


If so, I hope the bullets hit a few people rather than go through the plane's fuselage because if they do, there's a real good chance that besides losing cabin pressure, that whole plane's is going down, once the gun fights are completed...

[fathertime]

Like Ray, I don't have much sympathy for criminals, especially repeat or violent offenders.  I don't think it should be society's problem that a person can't play nicely with others.  If a person has proven that he is incapable of 'playing nice' and physically  harms others multiple times, then lock him up for decades, give him bread and water, work his fingers to the bone, and beat the crap out of him if he misbehaves or abuses guards.  When he has finished his sentence, he can go live in on a designated island where all these guys can stay for the duration of their lives.
 The rest of us can enjoy a slightly more secure and less violent society.
Fathertime!

[Ray]

Ray: "Good? Who cares?" That is why your State is beyond bankrupt.

If you want to talk to me then you'll have to make an appointment at least a month in advance...

 

[Ray]

I was the #5 poster on this thread. Granted you were #3 I believe, but look at what you wrote.....classic as usual. The comment I was referring to by Ray (not your post) was a normal response. And Ray was talking about prisons, not fire and police departments.  When the people are saying "good, who cares?, etc." when their state is in the worst shape financially, by far, that is basically the reason they are in that situation. Is there a problem saying that? It is the truth.

And it is funny how you say you will not respond to things with name calling and stupidity, in the exact same post that you are doing that exact thing.

Just relax, say what you want and I will do the same. I am not going to be making childish remarks to you guys anymore because it is a fruitless endeavor. I was just doing so to reflect back what you were doing so maybe you would stop, but as you can see that strategy has not worked.

Let's have a little bet, and I am willing to let our mutual friend Fathertime be the judge and jury. How about the first one that makes a personal attack or uses stupid graphics against the other pays the guy $1,000? I'm willing to make the same wager with Ray if he is reading this.

I just want to post here without being harassed on every single point I make.

Well, here’s a free tip for you… Practice what you preach!

You can start by leaving my name out of your ignorant postings.

Bye!

[Alabamaboy!]

Well, here’s a free tip for you… Practice what you preach!

You can start by leaving my name out of your ignorant postings.

Bye!

So I'll take that as a "no" then that you are not going to take me up on the bet?

[Dan]

So I'll take that as a "no" then that you are not going to take me up on the bet?

AB,

Ray made a direct request and one that is easy to honor. Please do so. You have crossed the line into baiting, and any repeats will receive intervention.

- Dan

[fathertime]

One thing I find ironic is that housing prices are not being allowed to utterly collapse.  The govt. is trying anything it can to delay the inevitable. 

I think it would be a good thing if houses cost much less, then people would have more income to enjoy other parts of their lives, rather than being a debt slave to a mortgage.  I can't help but think, a part of the govt's motivation is that they get to collect taxes based on the purchase price of the home.  If a home is purchased for less money, the govt collects property tax. 

Fathertime!

[piglett]

also you pay property taxes on your homes value
mine just went down 30k according to the tax collector on my town
so now my property taxes went down almost $500 a year


sounds good to me
pig

[Researcher]

   Yep, the fed is working hard on creating the next financial crisis.Obama says he wants to increase exports from the US but by devaluation of the dollar comes inflation.When will the government wake up and realize that all the voodoo economics doesn't work.

   Researcher

[robert angel]

The banks are still cheating people. Not that many are likely to be surprised at that statement.

My youngest sister has been looking to buy her first house--a 'fixer upper' in a nice area outside of Detroit, MI. Yes, folks--there are nice places there still!

She's bid on foreclosures and apparently had the winning bid, but the banks keep stalling her until someone can come along with cold cash, and pay in full. Never mind she'll put 20% down, has a great credit record and has had the same job for twelve years.

The Realtor was pretty much pleading with my sister to go out and borrow enough cash from family members to pay for the house with the cash, up front.

I know the banks are running scared and they don't want to go back to making loans to people who have no business borrowing--and I can't blame them there, but they've really been treating my sister badly and there isn't really a thing she can do legally about it.

It's basically depriving people who have shown financial responsibility and have earned the right to buy a home the opportunity to do so.

On the other hand, my brother in law was able, because he had cash on hand, to buy a similar fixer upper they were asking $75.000 for, for $40.000 cash. I bet Michael fixes that place up rite nice, sinking $10,000 in materials into it and doing the work himself and sells it for $140.000 plus in two years, or rents it out and does even better long term, as he can do any needed maintenance himself.

Same as it ever was--'It takes money to make money'

[fathertime]

The banks are still cheating people. Not that many are likely to be surprised at that statement.

My youngest sister has been looking to buy her first house--a 'fixer upper' in a nice area outside of Detroit, MI. Yes, folks--there are nice places there still!

She's bid on foreclosures and apparently had the winning bid, but the banks keep stalling her until someone can come along with cold cash, and pay in full. Never mind she'll put 20% down, has a great credit record and has had the same job for twelve years.

The Realtor was pretty much pleading with my sister to go out and borrow enough cash from family members to pay for the house with the cash, up front.

I know the banks are running scared and they don't want to go back to making loans to people who have no business borrowing--and I can't blame them there, but they've really been treating my sister badly and there isn't really a thing she can do legally about it.

Hey Robert A! 

I don't really think the banks are cheating your sister.  Generally speaking, foreclosures are all cash deals.  At a minimum, financing is typically in place for the buyer.  Unless something was misrepresented in this particular case, I would think that she doesn't have a legal leg to stand on.  Perhaps you could loan her the balance and then she can pay you back over time with interest. 

Fathertime! 

[piglett]

The banks are still cheating people. Not that many are likely to be surprised at that statement.

My youngest sister has been looking to buy her first house--a 'fixer upper' in a nice area outside of Detroit, MI. Yes, folks--there are nice places there still!

She's bid on foreclosures and apparently had the winning bid, but the banks keep stalling her until someone can come along with cold cash, and pay in full. Never mind she'll put 20% down, has a great credit record and has had the same job for twelve years.

The Realtor was pretty much pleading with my sister to go out and borrow enough cash from family members to pay for the house with the cash, up front.

I know the banks are running scared and they don't want to go back to making loans to people who have no business borrowing--and I can't blame them there, but they've really been treating my sister badly and there isn't really a thing she can do legally about it.

It's basically depriving people who have shown financial responsibility and have earned the right to buy a home the opportunity to do so.

the same thing is happening around here
I know an older guy who has perfect credit looking to put 10% down on a repo house that is in Realtor hands
every time he makes an offer they just don't get back to the Realtor & then it ends up selling at auction for about 1/2 of what he was offering to pay. he knows this because he keeps going into the court house & researches the deed after the auction.

something is dam fishy about the entire deal


pig

[robert angel]

Re:

>>I don't really think the banks are cheating your sister.  Generally speaking, foreclosures are all cash deals.  At a minimum, financing is typically in place for the buyer.  Unless something was misrepresented in this particular case, I would think that she doesn't have a legal leg to stand on.  Perhaps you could loan her the balance and then she can pay you back over time with interest.<<

FT.

I honestly think you know a bit more about financial markets than me and while I think you're right in that it wasn't exactly illegal, I think it should be. In fact, we had it looked at legally and indeed it wasn't strictly illegal.

The realtor didn't want to come right out and tell my sister how things 'really work' but in a lot of words and in her and the bank's actions, it eventually became clear. It just sucks that nobody wants to be 'straight up' because they know it basically stinks  that if you're not high risk and  have saved tens of thousands towards hopefully buying a house,  eventually it ends as you find out that you're not good enough to them to buy a house with a conventional mortgage.

So there you are--a good citizen, earnestly saving money, fortunate enough to have worked at the same job for many years and suddenly you feel devalued and disenfranchised as an American--denied what was one of the most basic of American dreams--owning your own home, no matter how humble it might be.

Personally I find it unethical in that the banks selling the houses should be able to offer loans to financially sound people and they're supposed to, and they can repo them in worst case scenarios.

I think it's discriminatory against those without a lot of money already--and I generally dislike using that term, because it lends itself to having a 'pity party' and all too often including horns and other 'party favors'.

There is good reason for the banks (finally) to be scared of real estate loans and the same goes for people.

Don't you fondly remember when then federal reserve chairman Allen Greenspan said that regarding the financial markets--before the shyt all hit the fan, that perhaps we were experiencing what he called  an 'irrational exuberance' in basically saying we were buying a lot of over priced things/investments/homes and subtly insinuating that the bubble was ready to not pop, but explode?

That was too cute in how the very guy who helped make the big mess possible, put it in such a nice way, was finally naming the train he'd been shoveling coal into, as it hurtled further down the downhill tracks and on into an incredible wreck before retiring himself to millions of dollars in speaking and talk show fees.

Part of it was as a nation, many of us got into a pretty greedy mode, and the way in which we looked at homes and houses changed. whereas the typical American might in past times, buy one or two homes in a life time and eventually pay off a thirty year mortgage, people saw how homes were, as it turns out now artificially, appreciating at rapid rates and were buying houses, seeing their supposed values increase in a year, maybe three years, and would sell, buy a more expensive one/s with the bank's blessings and do the same thing over and over again.

It just wasn't sustainable and the banks (most of them) wanted the gravy train to go on forever and raked in billions in fees arranging what often turned out to be bad loans.


It was like buying base ball cards, spinning one after another off for newer cards while the market wasn't as solid as people thought.

So in real estate and in other economic sectors, we're experiencing what can at best be nicely called a 'market correction' in my opinion, and I think we have to change the way we think about spending, saving and when to hold and when to put out.

Lending to people--even my family? I really don't like going there--it ultimately causes stress. I have done it and I have borrowed money from my family, but don't like to--I am actually getting a couple grand back from all places--the Philippines and five years after the fact! And it's not from my immediate family--they'd never ask--it was from extended family. And when its family, if I'm dumb enough to loan, I don't charge interest--probably a dumb move, once again. I'd rather send baskets with fruit, chocolate and sausage...

Meanwhile just this morning, really bad housing reports are being released and serious questions still are being raised about whether or not there's going to be a lot more nasty fallout from the banks.

[robert angel]

Regarding exports, I live around the third busiest port in the USA--even in recent years, the port has had double digit growth, largely because we export a large amount of raw materials to Asia and import a whole lot of finished products from Asia and to a lesser extent, Europe.

Our leading exports are by far, all raw goods--we don't send much manufactured stuff that's made in the USA--they don't want it anymore like they used to.

People in the USA don't eat a lot of chicken feet, but the Chinese sure do. We were exporting hundreds of millions of dollars worth of chicken feet  a year to China, but they have cracked down on it and making it more difficult and much less profitable, so chicken feet exports have plummeted. Oddly, Hong Kong has not changed their trade rules, so it's not an issue there.

So who's really calling the shots here?

[fathertime]

Well Robert A.,

I am not really on the side of the bank either. The govt. and banks are working together and it isn't always to John Q. Public's benefit.   I understand that they really don't want to get burned twice on the same property though.  So they pretty much want all cash offers for foreclosures.   It is their choice, since it is presumably their customers that have loaned them (through deposits) the money to use most prudently. 

My feeling is that houses still need to come down in price.  That would probably help your sister out some and anybody else that is interested in buying a home.  If the homes were high priced because of demand that would be acceptable in my eyes, but the prices are being held up falsely through governmental intervention.  I don't like to see the govt. pick winners and losers like that.  The housing market should stand or fall on its own merits.

Fathertime!

[Researcher]

  It does seem that we are long away from the end of the financial crisis.The government seems to just keep propping everything up.I think that all these problems are just part of the transition to a global economy.The sooner this country accepts that things are probably never going to be the same as before the better off we will be.Our government needs to get a grip on overspending as well as the citizens.

  I wonder what would happen if the majority of people here in the US changed their view on money and decided to only buy the bare essentials.Maybe put their houses up for sale to trade down for something just big enough to live in.If their house didn't sell they would just walk away from it after borrowing as much cash as they could and maxing out their credit cards to get enough money to maybe pay for a small place.Then just walk away leaving the banks and credit card companies holding the bag.

  With consumer spending being around 70% of the world's largest economy, I bet ALOT of companies and countries would crumble.One things for sure, the future is probably not going to be boring.I'm not too worried about riots in the streets.I think it is a definite possibility.One of the scariest things I've seen on TV was a protester holding a sign that said " a job is a right".Thats just scary to me to think someone actually believes that.

  Researcher

[piglett]

  It does seem that we are long away from the end of the financial crisis.

when i was in the PI. back in June the dollar was worth 48 pesos
now it's only worth 40 pesos, maybe my math is way off but isn't that about 18% 
how can the dollar slip so much in just 6 months?
the roads ahead looks to be real dam bumpy so buckle up & hang on tight boys & girls.


piglett

[Researcher]

   Piglett, the way the government is printing money I'm surprised the dollar isn't worth even less.Who knows what it will be once QE2 has worked its way through.I get the feeling that the government's idea is "so what if the value of the dollar goes down, we can make our exports cheaper this way and maybe spur some job growth".It also makes imports more expensive causing inflation, which they don't seem to be worried about.Just more voodoo economics.


  Researcher

[fathertime]

 Has the world ever seen this many protests/riots occur all in rapid succession and the food prices are only just now beginning to rise.

   I've noticed what is happening in Wisconsin when union members are asked to start making a sacrifice.  Lets see how this plays out.  The cuts are necessary and it won't be long now before we start seeing similar or more drastic proposals cropping up in other states.  I gotta applaud this governor of Wisconsin.  Obviously their legislature is completely broken and corrupt.  It is complete desperation to walk out of the vote and hide out in other states.
 
To all those naive and bitter jackasses out there that thought this could never happen.  All I can say is "I told you so!"

The fabric of our society is a lot frailer than people think.  The best we can hope for is that it unravels in an orderly way rather than complete chaos.
Fathertime!

[Ray]

FT,

I am so damn sick and tired of these whiny-assed, arrogant unions. As far as I’m concerned, they can all kiss my butt.

Remember when Governor Arnold tried to take on the unions and they trashed him till he turned into a whimpering girly-man? That was the final flush of the California toilet bowl and there is no turning back. Jerry Brown and his Democrat buddies will never have the balls to take on the unions because the unions got them elected and they are just cheap whores anyway.

I hope Wisconsin is finally successful in busting the stupid unions. The public employee unions are the main cause of California's financial mess and finally a lot of other states can see the handwriting on the wall if they don’t stop this nonsense NOW.

Ray

[fathertime]

FT,

I am so damn sick and tired of these whiny-assed, arrogant unions. As far as I’m concerned, they can all kiss my butt.

Remember when Governor Arnold tried to take on the unions and they trashed him till he turned into a whimpering girly-man? That was the final flush of the California toilet bowl and there is no turning back. Jerry Brown and his Democrat buddies will never have the balls to take on the unions because the unions got them elected and they are just cheap whores anyway.

I hope Wisconsin is finally successful in busting the stupid unions. The public employee unions are the main cause of California's financial mess and finally a lot of other states can see the handwriting on the wall if they don’t stop this nonsense NOW.

Ray

i have to agree with you about unions that are only trying to protect their own...the teachers union comes to mind...it needs to be weakened and people shouldn't HAVE to join if they don't want to...many teachers are disgusted their union dues go towards lobbyists lobbying politicians  that are polar opposite to what the teacher believes and would want his/her money to go towards...i have a teacher friend who is making more in retirement than he made as a teacher...over 70k a year...no union dues either in retirement...more take home pay...we (the tax payers) get to pay that for the next 20-30 years...way too much!

between the bloated union contracts, illegal aliens, and the club med prison system, we are spending way to much on stuff here in CA, that we can do without...I'm ok with the execution of all 1st degree murderers, it should be automatic...child rapists, ditto...i don't want to pay for their medical care and food.

it is going to be exciting to see what the hell happens in the next year or two...hopefully by some miracle, the govt starts listening to us 'racist rednecks' and starts controlling that damn border and using researchers 'slingshot' for the illegals already parked and grazing here.

Fathertime!

[Researcher]

       It's unbelievable that this country is going down the tubes and people are standing by and watching it happen. When someone does try to do something people take to the streets in protest.Everyone should sacrifice something, God knows the nonunion private sector has taken a beating now its time for government workers to sacrifice.


       Researcher

[Bob_S]

I gotta say, it's a lot of fun watching the socialist state in total meltdown.  With the D's absent in WI, the R's can get a lot of reforms done that don't include budget issues.  I wonder if they have the guts to act on their professed principles.  It would certainly be a first if they do.  The R's in CA certainly don't.