The myth of the invincible Latina goddess. (Vulnerabilities)

[fathertime]

     While some might view the latinas as being an aggressive wild bunch that simply run over shrinking, pussy-whipped men, I view them as being shockingly vulnerable.  Their vulnerabilities begin in Colombia and continue to a lesser extent when they are here in the states.  They often come from families without a protective father and are at the mercy of whatever physically stronger male that decides to assault them.  They can hear catcalls on the street and be felt-up in the crowded buses and need to be on the alert for  rapist taxi cab driver at all times.  The laws are weak and a combination of home life and schools leave many without a viable long-term career path. Their children often live without involved fathers and in crowded and substandard conditions.

     Given all these generalities, it makes perfect sense that many of these young ladies are devoted wives (for the right man).  Making these ladies feel safe and secure is Job 1.  For many of them it is the fist time in their lives, that they have had this ‘luxury’. Locking the doors of the house at night is not all I’m talking about here, keeping a wife secure is also done with something intangible regarding attitude towards her.  Being accepting and backing her 100% (even if she is slightly wrongheaded) goes a long way.  There is nearly always a later time to gently nudge her in the right direction.    If a man is able to fulfill these basic needs, he is well over ½ way home, in my opinion.  That is assuming, he has chosen both a good woman (big assumption there) and one that will keep him captivated and wanting to ‘protect and serve’ her. 

     In many ways an older man/younger woman is the best possible match for both parties.  Nowadays it is my genuine belief that a significant % of these ladies would actually prefer an older man (but not TOO old) due to the constant vulnerability they have experienced in their lives.  Generally older men are able/willing to provide a more secure home, they are more attentive and able to assess a wife’s needs, and are less likely to be do something risky that puts all the family members in jeopardy.  As always there are many exceptions.   

For those slightly older men that are intimidated/discouraged about this process, you only need to look in the mirror and be the right man and you can have a young loving wife that never would have thought possible.

Based on my experience these are my opinions.  I’m open to modifications.

Fathertime!

[z_k_g]

FT,

Good post!  Very insightful and straight to the point.

I think that most of us sometime forget why we had a feminist movement in this country.  It was a great concept and you listed a lot of the reasons why it was necessary.  

Unfortunately it become a 7 headed beast, created the femnazis and has now destroyed relationships and families by reducing relationships from men and women, to mere "partners".

With that being said, women need to be protected and loved by men, regardless of this folly.

Thanks for reminding us of this basic need of a healthy relationship between a man and woman,  brings everyone down to earth.

Zulu

[InnocentVixen]

love your post FT

While there always be exceptions and variations (an over protective father could easily cause the same effect for example) I think you have a pretty clear idea of how things work for a lot of women in latinamerica, it is a vulnerability and if you are a good man by all means please take "advantage" of it, it should not be a matter of being a macho or having the white knight syndrome, it should be a matter of balance, a man and a woman that complement each other.

If you think about it, a bad man and a bad woman in this case would still be quite a great match, the problem comes when it's a good man and a bad woman or viceversa.

About the age difference I can only speak for myself, after all this time of trying to keep a more open mind about it I still think someone less than 5 years older than me is just too young and 15 years older than me is still my limit, I would like to remind you guys that what you consider young might not be considered young in the country of your choice.

Example (in Mexico)
young female 18-25
mature female 25-35
older female 35-45
old female 45+

[robert angel]

That really was a great post, FT. A lot of people have a lot of misconceptions and buy into stereotypes, shortchanging their own mindsets. and even poisoning other's.

 I was so hung up on trying to make sure my second marriage didn't turn into a 'crash and burn' (I was married 14 years the first time) that I was hung up on a narrow age ranges and other 'stipulations'.

In doing so, I almost lost out with my current wife, who showed a helluva a lot of patience. I also realized that she, her family and my family, didn't have issues with our age difference--it was all in MY head.  As I said before, my older son--then 14 y/o, after giving our union his blessing well before we married, changed his mind, but kids that age often aren't comfortable with themselves, never mind anyone else. My kids and their very--I'll admit, 'spoiled American kid' ways, compared to my wife's six younger siblings and kids 'back home' in general, have proven to be the hardest thing on our marriage.


In regards to those, who in their silence or behind our back might have commentary they make in snide ways, I defer to the wisdom of famed chlidren's author, Dr. Seuss, who put it pretty well when he said:

      “Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.”

[whitey]

About the age difference I can only speak for myself, after all this time of trying to keep a more open mind about it I still think someone less than 5 years older than me is just too young and 15 years older than me is still my limit, I would like to remind you guys that what you consider young might not be considered young in the country of your choice.

Example (in Mexico)
young female 18-25
mature female 25-35
older female 35-45
old female 45+

Good point IV ... I don't know how it is in Mexico, but in Colombia a woman over 30 who isn't married is pretty much considered an old maid.  This is starting to change in the bigger cities, though.  It's very hard for we extranjeros to understand at first that most latinas (and pinays it seems) seek an older man, since most North American women are looking for men very close to their age.  And some of the divorced older women are now looking for younger men!

I'm 13 years older than Nazly, and probably close to the outside of her preferred age range.  My 19 year old daughter sounds a bit like Robert's son ... she doesn't "approve" of our relationship.  I think it's partially the age thing, partially that she's from Colombia, partially that she thinks it's too soon after my divorce, and partially that she doesn't think the relationship is real because it's long distance and we don't share the same language.

Sigh ... aren't kids fun?    

[fathertime]

Well I’m glad what was written struck a cord with you guys/gals.  Thanks IV for the validation of many of my points, it is good to hear a woman’s perspective. 

    I have noted a few things I’d like to add now.  I find it a little humorous that many women in the USA seem to believe that it is a good thing that they ‘require’ more by way of possessions/experiences.  I am speculating the women on the prairie 100 years ago did not expect/demand much, but from what I have gathered they lived fulfilling lives.  I am of the feeling that less is better and I would highly prefer a wife that has a similar point of view.  Sometimes people ask, Is your wife bored?  They ask this because she prefers to be in the house, rather than going to work every day.  In many ways I view this lifestyle to be a perfect existence for her, I hope she feels the same way.  There is no real pressure to “Do” that much, the main thing necessary is to “Be”. 
1. To be pleasant with me and the kids, and gorgeous to look at!
2. To be a good mother (near future) and all the duties that entails.
3. To be a good housekeeper/cook. 
4. To be fulfilled with her role and to do it cheerfully. 

It was only 50 years ago that here in the USA most wives lives were completely home-based.  Some couples still prefer that lifestyle.  My feeling is it only REALLY works if that is what both marriage partners want.  The way the finances of our society have evolved it is very difficult for many married couples to live (in the style they want to) on only one real income.  I think it is good that women have more options now, but I don't think the way our society has evolved is a good thing for the long run.

In regards to those, who in their silence or behind our back might have commentary they make in snide ways, I defer to the wisdom of famed chlidren's author, Dr. Seuss, who put it pretty well when he said:

      “Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.”

Well Robert Angel that is a good quote that you have provided and a nice segues into a main point in the post.  Those ‘men’ that need to be pacified really aren’t great wife material for many of these latinas.   It is no surprise that people with this inherent insecurity have never been able to find a woman that will respect them.  They have been created to be doormats for the international ladies, and we must feel some pity for their inability to adapt and their perpetual state of fear.    I must chuckle a bit when I read posts from such people, when their actions prove that they tremble when challenged.
 
Fathertime!

[fathertime]

I'm 13 years older than Nazly, and probably close to the outside of her preferred age range.  My 19 year old daughter sounds a bit like Robert's son ... she doesn't "approve" of our relationship.  

Sigh ... aren't kids fun?    

Hey whitey! 
If you don't mind, please tell me what your 19 year old is doing/saying that makes you believe she does not support your current relationship.  This can make for a sticky situation, although I think over time these issues tend to lighten, but in some cases they do worsen.

Thanks,
Fathertime!

[whitey]

Hey whitey! 
If you don't mind, please tell me what your 19 year old is doing/saying that makes you believe she does not support your current relationship.  This can make for a sticky situation, although I think over time these issues tend to lighten, but in some cases they do worsen.

Thanks,
Fathertime!

Hey FT, I agreed with every point you made in the post above this one.

What is my daughter doing/saying ... well ... it's pretty sad ...

She refuses to have anything to do with Nazly ... doesn't want to meet her, talk to her, receive any emails, didn't want to go the the wedding, etc. 

The only thing she will admit to is that she thinks the marriage is a sham because we only know each other via long distance or on vacation and we don't speak the same language.  And for those reasons, she questions Nazly's motives and thinks she's either after money or a visa.

What she chooses not to believe is that Nazly would rather stay in Colombia if given the choice, that she has a good job, owns property, has a loving family and good friends.  In many ways (although not all - mostly security), her life is better in Colombia than it will be here.  Except for me of course!   

I would prefer to live in Colombia, but I have a daughter to put through university and a retirement to save for ... hopefully in 7-10 years. 

[fathertime]

Hey FT, I agreed with every point you made in the post above this one.

What is my daughter doing/saying ... well ... it's pretty sad ...

She refuses to have anything to do with Nazly ... doesn't want to meet her, talk to her, receive any emails, didn't want to go the the wedding, etc. 

The only thing she will admit to is that she thinks the marriage is a sham because we only know each other via long distance or on vacation and we don't speak the same language.  And for those reasons, she questions Nazly's motives and thinks she's either after money or a visa.

What she chooses not to believe is that Nazly would rather stay in Colombia if given the choice, that she has a good job, owns property, has a loving family and good friends.  In many ways (although not all - mostly security), her life is better in Colombia than it will be here.  Except for me of course!   

I would prefer to live in Colombia, but I have a daughter to put through university and a retirement to save for ... hopefully in 7-10 years. 

Wow that is really pretty heavy duty.  My girls are much younger than 19, but I imagine I'd be pretty torn up over the situation that you are currently dealing with.  DO you think you are going to be able to even have you daughter over to the house while your wife is there, or is she threatening to never set foot in your house.  How is Nazly, dealing with this.  To be frank, I had a similar incident occur with my mother and it is pretty much smoothed out now, but it took a very long time for my wife to get past the less than welcome reception she received from her.  It is tough to try always be trying to foster family relations, but the good thing for me was that those days ended.  For whatever it is worth, I never wavered and stood four-square with my wife throughout and for others the option was 'accept it' or kiss the totality of my ass.  When family members saw there options and realized my wife was genuine, they all got in line, like they should have to begin with!

Fathertime!

[whitey]

Nazly has been very cool about it, although I'm sure she's saddened ... as am I.

Whatever happens will be my daughter's choice ... she's an adult now and has to make her own decisions.  It might be a much more difficult decision if she were younger and especially if she were living with me ...

Nazly will be sharing every aspect of my life, including holidays with my family like Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter, etc.  My daughter will be invited, but at this point she may choose not to go.  I hope she'll change her mind over time ...

[robert angel]

Whitey,

My sons are 13 and 19 y/o. My 19 y/o was absolute pain at first, a major behavior problem, who was very verbally disrespectful to me in front of my wife and pretty much silently cold--what you might call "passive aggressive" towards her. She'd never see anything like it in her life.

Foreign doesn't begin to describe her experience with American kids in general. I am glad that at her work, she's worked with every grade from Kindergarten through fifth grade, if just to show she her how my kids aren't totally 'unique' in their behavior.

Sadly, I can't say my son and I get along any better today, as he wrecks car after car (hell, I was the same way at his age--karma?) and falls madly in love with mostly pretty and wealthy girls, only to quickly 'crash and burn' with them, without even salvaging lasting friendships. He has a lot of positive attributes, but also a lot of growing up to do yet. It seems to me that boys don't 'grow up' as fast as they used to.

But today, if I asked him, as I did some months back, if he held my wife in high positive regard, he wouldn't even blink--he'd emphatically say "yes". And he's been that way for about two years. The first 2, really the most  of 3 years, were rough, but eventually it became clear that his anger wasn't sourced from my wife --not from my marital situation anymore.

No, they're not on a warm 'huggy' basis and when my wife has advice --'views' on how to disclipine my boys, she expresses them quite well--but only to me in private. She doesn't discipline or order my sons around, but she gets mad when they disrespect me and don't show any gratitude for all they have.

That's her choice--her way of dealing with the situation. Personally, I wish she'd let out her disapointment--even anger that she has, with my 13 y/o, who she's seen go from a chubby little 3rd grader, who covered his eyes when people kissed, to a popular teenager who today has to shave and has older girls chasing him. They go back through a lot more changes and time together than she does my older son.

But I respect the way she's chosen not to directly discipline them and her fortitude in dealing with both of the boys. Many a woman would've run off long ago, aghast how American kids, kids she didn't have any hand in raising and who don't return love and affection are, compared to the children back home--or to the children she would've raised, in her mind.

Part of it back then was I think, that my older son thought that somehow, someway, I was trying to 'replace' his mother with my new wife. I can't imagine that he had any inkling that there was even a remote chance of his Mom and I getting back together, because to this day, she's the only woman I've ever had a relationship with and years later, wouldn't get at least a hug and a peck on the cheek from--I can't even have a normal conversation with her. But maybe in his immature mind--he had that hope that it would somehow change and everything would go back to how it once was--a cool, but nonetheless dysfunctional relationship, but what he was used to.

My ex wife doesn't talk to my wife, but she doesn't really care to talk with anyone except for two friends, so that's not unusual. She's more about 'things' than people--but she's never tried to sabotage my marrriage--hasn't bad mouthed my wife to the boys.

I am pretty sure that with your daughter too, that eventually she'll see that Nazly's not going anywhere soon and that probably beyond polite respect, there will be genuine affection.

As much as we'd like to pack it all up and move abroad, with one son in college and another but thirteen y/o and clearly headed to college also, it's just not in the cards yet.

So for now, we'll just ride this wave and wait for better days ahead. Time has a way of healing, I think and I hope that with over ten years divorced from my ex that there might even yet be healing there. I'm all but positive that in a year or two, quite possibly sooner, your daughter will warm up to Nazly.

[fathertime]

Nazly has been very cool about it, although I'm sure she's saddened ... as am I.

Whatever happens will be my daughter's choice ... she's an adult now and has to make her own decisions.  It might be a much more difficult decision if she were younger and especially if she were living with me ...

Nazly will be sharing every aspect of my life, including holidays with my family like Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter, etc.  My daughter will be invited, but at this point she may choose not to go.  I hope she'll change her mind over time ...

Well Whitey, your response tells me that you are going to deal with this in a strong manner, which is the only reasonable manner in my mind.   It also tells me that the issue with your daughter has to do with something other then the sincerity of your wife.  If she were concerned about her sincerity and were interested in ‘protecting’ you, she would want to be a little closer to the situation.  Maybe she is choosing ‘mama’s side’ for some reason.  You probably have as much experience as me in this area.   I have found that when one of my girls chooses ‘mama’ during a dispute, I accept their decision, as I think they may feel sorry for mama and I want them to be able to empathize with her unhappiness, at least to a certain extent.   They always come back to papa though.  I think it would be a little scary though if they were 19 and didn’t feel they needed to come back, so I am sorta feeling your pain on this one.   Is my theory plausible in your situation?  I am going to be very curious as to how all parties deal with this going forward. 

Fathertime!

[z_k_g]

Whatever happens will be my daughter's choice ... she's an adult now and has to make her own decisions.  It might be a much more difficult decision if she were younger and especially if she were living with me ...

Whitey,

I've been there before, just keep doing what you are doing, she will either come around...or not.

Maybe a movie, a book or a person's story close to her will give her some wisdom and she will get out of this immature place in her life.

Only time will tell.

Zulu

[InnocentVixen]

Good point IV ... I don't know how it is in Mexico, but in Colombia a woman over 30 who isn't married is pretty much considered an old maid. 

Over here a girl that is going to university is expected to marry or at least be engaged by the end of her career, this would be at age 23-24 and to be married by the time she is 25, girls who are not students are expected to get married younger but yes, if you hit 30 you will pretty much have to settle and choose someone fast if you still want to have kids (men will not choose someone over 30 to have kids with) or maybe become some guy's misstress, the only alternative to that would be to be mommy's and daddy's princess for a looong time. I know of some that got lucky and managed to meet a widow, not many divorced men over here.

There is no real pressure to “Do” that much, the main thing necessary is to “Be”. 
1. To be pleasant with me and the kids, and gorgeous to look at!
2. To be a good mother (near future) and all the duties that entails.
3. To be a good housekeeper/cook. 
4. To be fulfilled with her role and to do it cheerfully. 

I think it might have to do with us being used to a more slow paced life while in the states is all work and everyone is always in a rush, some men even look down on women who's mayor ambition is to be a devoted wife and do exactly what you posted FT, I am hoping to find someone who will see his home as a sanctuary from his hectic life.

@whitey: I am sorry to hear Nazly has to go through that, I've always thought that if I met someone who's kids didn't like me I would have to give it a second, third and fourth thought before getting in a relationship, of course I am in a different position where I can visit more often, and win them over I guess, she is a brave lady and she must love you so much!

[Researcher]

Nazly has been very cool about it, although I'm sure she's saddened ... as am I.

Whatever happens will be my daughter's choice ... she's an adult now and has to make her own decisions.  It might be a much more difficult decision if she were younger and especially if she were living with me ...

Nazly will be sharing every aspect of my life, including holidays with my family like Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter, etc.  My daughter will be invited, but at this point she may choose not to go.  I hope she'll change her mind over time ...

       Single dads and international marriage....that could be an interesting thread.I have much respect for you guys that make it happen.


   Researcher

[Dave H]

I think that much of this bad behavior is being directed through the kids by their mother (ex-wife)! I was amazed when my kids started to sound just like my ex and their abuela! I ended that crap real quick!!! The kids also have their loyalty to mommy, even if she is a serial killer! They are afraid that they might upset mommy, should they actually like their new step mom, thus they keep their distance and praise mommy any chance they get...often about things mommy has never done in her life! Since most of our new wives are much younger and prettier than mommy...she is really pissed and wants to make our lives a living hell and will do what she can to destabilize our new marriages! Mommy and abuela were so nice to our faces, but I learned from others that they said SO MUCH SH-IT behind our backs! Stupid me, my wife and I tried to stay on good terms until the sh-it finally hit the fan!

It takes a lot of time and patience, along with letting your children know that you will not tolerate their disrespectful behavior. It took my kids until they were around 20 (4 and 9 years respectively) and on their own to finally think for themselves and realize that mommy and abuela are often full of SH-IT!

Good luck,

Dave

[whitey]

Thanks everyone for your comments and encouragement.

My daughter is becoming very much like my ex-wife ... both the good and bad.  She's smart, hardworking, and pretty - but also can be very judgemental, oversensitive, and too willing to shut people out.

Time will tell, and hopefully she'll come around.

Robert, it sounds like your wife has the patience of a saint ... you're a lucky man.  Our situation should be quite a bit easier, as my daughter doesn't live with me, and is planning to move to another city in two years when she's finished her undergrad degree to work on her post grad.  So, the awkwardness will be limited to family gatherings.

[fathertime]

Mommy and abuela were so nice to our faces, but I learned from others that they said SO MUCH SH-IT behind our backs! Stupid me, my wife and I tried to stay on good terms until the sh-it finally hit the fan!
 

Hey Dave! 

I can relate, same situation mama and abuela always nice when we are around.  I am darn near 100% sure they rag relentlessly though when we are out of site and in front of the children.  The kids still come to papa though, and so long as they remain respectful to my new wife, all is good.  Actually everybody likes each other just fine so far, to the chagrin of the ex-wife's family.  I realize I tend to overreact but sometimes which can create problems, but it also keeps other ex family members from even thinking about getting to up into me and my kids business.  It is a tightrope act at times except falling off the rope doesn't kill ya, because I've found that preteen kids are so forgiving!  All in all it does add another layer of complication to the whole international wife affair!

Fathertime!

[Pivery]

 Good post FT. Definitely makes a great deal of sense. My lady was living by herself without a man for 3 years before I came along. She told me the other day that she
wasn't going to settle for just any guy that came up to her, and there were quite a few.

She just always knew that the right man would come along, and when he does (showing respect, love and the ability to provide a sense of security for her) she was his.

Now I receive all the fruits of being the right man and without all the American woman games and ball-busting. Definitely worth the effort! 

Pivery

[bcc_1_2]

teenagers are a piece of work i can admit (being one just 6 or 7 years ago). now granted my parents aren't broken up... but had they... i can imagine i'd have been a nightmare to deal with. And regardless of what you do as DAD it will take some time to sink in and as your kids continue to mature and come around to the situation it will sink in... and someday your kids may have a decent relationship with your wife.


From Mexico City to Bogota you can imagine why a latina might have to put up a tough facade. I can agree a recently divorced man who was walked all over by his ex is gonna get it in Latin America... but I'm not that guy so personally it wasn't an issue. But yea I'm sure a lot of guys in that situation go their hearts crushed. in the end it is all about due dilligence and research.

[Dave H]

I realize I tend to overreact but sometimes which can create problems, but it also keeps other ex family members from even thinking about getting to up into me and my kids business. 

Fathertime!

Hey Fathertime,

Good for you! I was trying to be the "nice guy" for the sake of my sons. I finally had to "overreact" and flip out on my ex and her mother to get any respect at all and make them back off!

Dave

[Jeff S]

About teenagers:

“When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished by how much he'd learned in seven years.”

- Mark Twain

[Kiltboy1]

I am lucky that my 14 year old daughter and my wife get along great. My daughter is her friend, not her stepmother, so they can talk about make-up, boys, ect. She had a problem at school a few weeks ago and asked my wife for advice , not me. I was proud of both of them. 

KB

[Researcher]

     
     Given all these generalities, it makes perfect sense that many of these young ladies are devoted wives (for the right man).  Making these ladies feel safe and secure is Job 1.  For many of them it is the fist time in their lives, that they have had this ‘luxury’. Locking the doors of the house at night is not all I’m talking about here, keeping a wife secure is also done with something intangible regarding attitude towards her.  Being accepting and backing her 100% (even if she is slightly wrongheaded) goes a long way.  There is nearly always a later time to gently nudge her in the right direction.    If a man is able to fulfill these basic needs, he is well over ½ way home, in my opinion.  That is assuming, he has chosen both a good woman (big assumption there) and one that will keep him captivated and wanting to ‘protect and serve’ her. 

   

      Very wise words here and right on target.While it has been said that latinas will quickly lose respect for a guy that lets her run over him the answer is not to go the complete opposite and be an "A" hole either.I have found that with many women(not just latinas) you have to find the right balance.For me it was disconnecting from what the "culture" here in the US tries to drill into our heads (as men) and finding what I feel comes naturally to me as a man.Finding the right woman that "keeps me captivated and wanting to 'protect and serve' her" says it all.


    Researcher

[fathertime]

I am lucky that my 14 year old daughter and my wife get along great. My daughter is her friend, not her stepmother, so they can talk about make-up, boys, ect. She had a problem at school a few weeks ago and asked my wife for advice , not me. I was proud of both of them. 

KB

Hey KB!

My experiences have been similar regarding my 12 year old and wife.  This is not a stepmother-daughter relationship.  If the wife sees something that needs to be addressed it is done through me.  They do each others nails, hair, and and perhaps in a couple years makeup.  I try to foster this behavior and stay out of their way when they have this sort of bonding.

 A little side story for you.  When my wife first arrived she wore some very short shorts, you know the type that makes men drool all over themselves.  Well when my girls were shopping with her at macys they wound up buying those same sorta shorts for themselves (except not quite as short), which was very atypical for them as they are sporty and usually were sports shorts and things like that.  I normally wouldn't be real comfortable with this but I liked that they had bonded, and I feel that a little balance in clothing wear is not a bad thing. 

Fathertime!