give your girlfriend a computer, find out whats going on. well hum maybe not

[whitey]

hey camteeenn,
for the most part his 'heart' might have been in the right place, but really a full grown man has to have better judgement.  if this gal was smoking hot and he looks in the mirror notices that he was wrinkled, old, and completely out of her league, he should be able to realize this and either move on willingly or accept the situation.    We don't really know all the details, so I'm only speculating, but there are some REAL unrealistic men that travel to Colombia, and he sounds like one of them.   All that being said, I don't have a problem with what he did, my argument is he should not have needed to do it, he should have been able to read the situation without taking the measures he did.  i don't view him the same way zulu does either, i don't know that he was a jerk, just a foolish old man.
Fathertime!

Gotta agree with FT on this one.  I don't have a problem with what he did, but it shouldn't have been necessary.  You should NEVER go "full retard" and start giving a colombiana money, and if you're an old guy with a hot young chica, you have to be realistic about why she "likes" you.

[robert angel]

I agree it shouldn't have been necessary if the guy took his time really learning and figuring all he could about this chica. It takes 3 things: time, time and time.

I can't condemn him--it probably saved him time and money, but it's all too 'cloak and dagger' for my tastes.

I can usually 'sense' when something seems not quite right and it's not because I'm paranoid. I don't care what everyone is saying behind my back!

[william3rd]

He has the right, at any time, or at any place, to check up on the activities of his girlfriend ( or wife). As do the rest of you. If you think something is amiss in your relationship, or you just want to know for sure, do whatever it takes to investigate. Whether it be a keystroke register, a private investigator or a phone tap, it's all fair game.

I had lined up Cheaters in my last marriage but they were working Texas at the time. My ex got caught before the show was in the area to look at my case. Too bad- it would have been exciting!!!

[JimD]

Mudd granted the cel phone option is pricey and if you´re in the US you´d have to have someone in Colombia report to you but I do know of such a case where the guy is in Italy. As to computer vs cel well if I had something serious with a girl in Colombia but had doubts I´d be a whole lot more interested in knowing who she´s screwing (cel) than who she´s scamming (computer).

[Researcher]

    Alot of lessons can be learned here.
 
    1)Don't send money right off the bat.This alone will eliminate the scammers of this type.If you don't send anything and they disappear then you know what they are about.I ran into this more in the Philippines.Not that they are any worse, I just relied more on the internet and found many, many young women who said if I sent them money they would "love me long time!".Yeah right . Online prostitutes.

    2)Don't rely too much on the internet to get to know a woman.There is no substitute for "facetime".

    3)I agree, be realistic.If you are an old coot be wary of the young hotties.Unless you have the cash to keep one of these women when they are here then don't bother.If you DO have the cash for a woman like that then find a young AW, there are plenty and you don't have to mess with immigration.


     I've got mixed feelings about what this guy did.What made him do it in the first place? If he had a feeling something wasn't right, he should have moved on like Zulu said but some guys need to see for themselves I guess.Kudos to the guy for informing the other pigeons about what was happening.I guess it worked out.


  Researcher

[ignorante]

if the man was dating a gal totally out of his league

Darn it, fathertime!  I always date "out of my league" here in America, both in terms of age and looks.  I thought maybe it would work better in Colombia . . .

Darn it!

Darn it!

Hey, wait, look at your avatar!   

[robert angel]

Re:>>Whether it be a keystroke register, a private investigator or a phone tap, it's all fair game<<

Obviously, a phone tap's legality depends on who's doing it and local laws. Even though it was never used in court, I had hours of damning phone calls recorded of my ex changing her mind and demands every which way and acting real strange.

I was told that in my state of residence, as long as there weren't any children heard in the back ground or otherwise known to be present, it was admissible in court. Check the laws--you don't want to be surprised to find you showed up in court w/ illegally obtained 'evidence'.

God forbid you do go thru a divorce, don't waste your money and your lawyer's time with tons of nasty little details that bother you, but ultimately have little or no bearing on the outcome of the case. He/she may have the paralegal read it (maybe) and charge you regardless --big bucks--many hours for supposedly 'reading' it. And you'll have a very hard time proving otherwise if you think they didn't really read it. They'll have copies on hand to 'read' if you do challenge them on it later...

[z_k_g]

In my opinion, this is simply a ethical decision and I say that-

"The ends do not justify the means"

Let me explain my reasoning:

From an ethical standpoint there is no justification for his actions.  To somehow say that a man in the relationship has the right to violate the female privacy at will "just because" he is the man and he suspects wrongdoing, is morally vacant.

As the leader and decider in the relationship, a man must have an ethical code that he lives by and demonstrates to his gf, wife, children etc.  Willfully and maliciously violating your significant others privacy is NEVER justified and means that you are not fit to lead anyone. 

Leaders live by codes and standards; the led, the wife, gf, children or significant other, must follow the leaders example and entrust and place their lives in his hands. 

To say that you have a right to violate a persons privacy to prove wrongdoing is a gross example of the logical fallacy "begging the question" - "She was guilty so I spied on her to prove it". 

Its a violation and abuse of your right to lead.

This standard does not apply to children or minors because you have to make decisions for them and your control must be absolute. 

But, the same standard does not apply to adults.  As a leader you must demonstrate mutual respect your gf, wife or significant other to make their own decisions (good or bad) - they have that right.

Sometimes that mutual respect recognizes their right to cheat, to be dishonest and to lie.  When they demonstrate that incorrect behavior, and you really can't accept it or deal with it, then just LEAVE!!

Using her alleged wrongdoing to justify your own wrongdoing corrupts your position.  You are both wrong, now we have two jerks instead of just one!

I stand by my position, this guy is a jerk.

As far as him "warning" the other guys involved. He simply delayed the inevitable, they were just saved to be fleeced another day, net benefit, zero.

Zulu

[ignorante]

I was marries for 14 years.  What is this "privacy" thing to which you refer? 

[z_k_g]

I was marries for 14 years.  What is this "privacy" thing to which you refer? 

He was not married.

Zulu

[Ray]

Firstly, I think this guy should be congratulated and praised for what he did - for being both smart and also calm and dignified in his conduct.

Smart??

So she got a free computer out of the deal and now she can really step up her efforts to scam other suckers.

I agree with FT…they were both using each other and they are both dumb-asses!

Finally, it is also sad and pathetic that so many guys are STILL sending money to scam artists the world over, despite the efforts of so many websites and forum postings. It is perhaps proof of the old adage that there's no cure for stupidity…

Excellent point! Just recently on this forum, we had another dumb-ass arguing that there is absolutely nothing wrong with sending money to these girls that he has never met.

He insisted on sending money to a young girl who didn’t want it, then hired a “private investigator” to find out what she really did with the money. Man, talk about dumb-asses!

I say let the dumb-asses throw their money away any way that they wish. But when they later show up here whining and crying that they were “scammed”, don’t show any sympathy whatsoever.

Ray

[z_k_g]

Smart??

So she got a free computer out of the deal and now she can really step up her efforts to scam other suckers.

I agree with FT…they were both using each other and they are both dumb-asses!

Excellent point! Just recently on this forum, we had another dumb-ass arguing that there is absolutely nothing wrong with sending money to these girls that he has never met.

He insisted on sending money to a young girl who didn’t want it, then hired a “private investigator” to find out what she really did with the money. Man, talk about dumb-asses!

I say let the dumb-asses throw their money away any way that they wish. But when they later show up here whining and crying that they were “scammed”, don’t show any sympathy whatsoever.

Ray

I was trying to be more subtle!!  ROTFLMAO!!!

Zulu

[Ray]

I was trying to be more subtle!!  ROTFLMAO!!!

Zulu

Zulu, I wouldn't waste all that time and energy trying to be subtle... 

Ray

[z_k_g]

He insisted on sending money to a young girl who didn’t want it, then hired a “private investigator” to find out what she really did with the money. Man, talk about dumb-asses!

This pretty sums up this situation also.

Zulu

[fathertime]

Darn it, fathertime!  I always date "out of my league" here in America, both in terms of age and looks.  I thought maybe it would work better in Colombia . . .

Darn it!

Darn it!

Hey, wait, look at your avatar!   

well ignorante you got me on that one.
I think I stretched to the farthest outskirts of what I could pluck from the bountiful tree of colombian babes...Given my own limitations regarding appearance/age/success. 

Fathertime!

[robert angel]

And like FT--I'm afraid I'm also 'guilty as charged'. I probably never should've posted photos, hehe...

[CeeTeeEnn]

Ray, she got a tainted computer out of the deal - a poisoned chalice. Granted, she may have gained a few hundred dollars out of making use of it. However, assuming that this relationship was heading the way of the guy getting serious and preparing in the longer term to have her join him in the West, for her limited gains she lost her sugar daddy and her journey to the promised land! This may all be based on a questionable assumption, but when most gringos wander down there in search of a "novia" this is the outcome most of them have in mind. The guy was smart in that for a small (but recoverable) cost he could have saved himself an expensive train crash further down the line. The girl was dumb because she used the laptop without thinking twice about the consequences. If she was really smart she would have reserved it for mundane use but in the evening made it down to the cafes to carry on scamming. Alternatively, she could have had it looked over for suspicious software and then either declined to use it or else invent a technical excuse of some system crash happening which forced her to re-install the OS completely. At the very least she could have refused to surrender it without question. But she did none of these things.

Regarding the point that "the ends do not justify the means" and that if you violate the privacy of your significant other you lose your right to lead... well, sorry ZKG but i simply cannot agree with you. Maybe in more gentle times when a woman's reputation would be jealously guarded and would reflect upon the social standing of both herself and her family, a man could afford the luxury of taking such a stance. In this particular case, it could be argued that the guy in question could have resolved matters differently or walked without bothering to resolve them at all. However, I can honestly say that if I was in an established relationship with a girl abroad and was making plans to facilitate her entry to the UK, but had encountered serious reasons to doubt her integrity which I was unable to assuage through discussion alone, I would consider using similar means before taking my committment further. I certainly wouldn't hesitiate to do so if I strongly suspected her dishonesty once she was married to me. unfortunately, we now live in a time when we are no longer respected as leaders to be looked up to and obeyed within the household, and therefore I see no reason why we must necessarily follow behavioural codes once attributed to such leadership.

The only moral to emerge from this story is the fact that Colombia and its women have once again been shown in a bad light on the P-L forum. There is now an awful lot of smoke in the air, and the fires feeding it can no longer be ignored - newbies take note.

[Researcher]

 I agree with you somewhat CeeTeeEnn.Newbies take note indeed but remember that these kinds of situations happen in many parts of the world, not just Colombia.

  As far as the woman scammer losing her "golden opportunity" FYI, the goal of many scammers is to fleece as many unsuspecting fools as possible.They have no intention or desire to leave their own country.Why should they if they can make money in this way.There seems to be a never ending supply of attention starved gringos willing to send money to someone they have never even met.I bet this chica is back at it and never thought twice about stopping.So, newbies take note its buyer beware, CYOA and just plain common sense.


  Researcher

[z_k_g]

CeeTeeEnn,

The Ends do NOT justify the means, no matter what circumstances.

In society we have come to accept wrongdoing and evil actions by people in authority (police, military, etc) to catch wrongdoers and evil doers because they convince us its the "only" way for justice! 

How ironic. 

Once you accept this type of irresponsible behavior from a person in authority to justify his/her sinister deeds we no longer need to have ethical limits.  Anything goes.

For example in our circumstance, forget about putting a keylogger on her computer; lock her up in a room, take away her cell phone, feed her twice and day, don't allow her to see the sunlight, now that will fix that problem!

This type of behavior is a slippery slope and, as we have discovered after 9/11, once you justify evil to catch evil, there is no going back.

So?

Lie to catch a liar?
Cheat to catch a cheat?
Kill to catch a Killer?

Where do you stop?

Ethics are what separate a just society from an unjust society and are the basis for law.  Leaders enforce the laws, the ethical code.

A corrupt leader is not worthy to lead, he twists the rules, the ethical code, to allow him to commit unjust and evil acts (the means) and justifies everything because the outcome (the end) is just (or so he contends).

I don't buy it.

As I've said many times, this case is really simple, just get another babe!!

Zulu

[fathertime]

I don’t like all encompassing ‘profound’ statements like ‘the ends don’t justify the means’.
  To me it is obvious that sometimes they do and it does not lead to the woman ‘being locked in her room without sunlight’

 That being said, I agree with zulu that the man  should have recognized he was not very important to the babe.  Perhaps this situation will help build up his perception a little better.   I like what he did with the information once he got it.  Although zulu asserted that they are just going to get scammed by someone else, we don’t know that those long distance guys are going to get scammed again by someone else.  They might, but they might not. Some people do learn from these experiences. 

  Regardless if the man outed her out of spite or out of genuine goodwill, he prevented those greenhorn gringo dodo’s from wasting their time/money on a deceptive lady.   By taking action he did do them a favor.  It would have been much easier for him to just let them get scammed.  I know must people would not get in this situation but given a choice, which would you choose? To out the scammer or knowingly let her continue to scam people you could otherwise alert.    For me, I would let the guys know, but try not to spend too much time with it.  You can lead a horse to water..etc etc.

Fathertime!

[mudd]

in all fairness, i have seen many many gringos in Medellin dating multiple girls without the girl knowing that her novio is a dirt bag and is dating on the side. eventually, these stupid gringos get caught and end up with a bad reputation.  Medellin is a fairly big city, but not that big and you always seem to run into somebody someplace that either knows you personally, or indirectly.

hell, i know a guy who was at a restaurant with friends and a date at a table, his novia didn't even know he was in Medellin, until one of her friends friend saw him and took a cell phone photo of him and sent it to her. it was not a pretty site when she got to the restaurant and  started screaming at him and calling him names in front of everybody. wow what a scene that was, but he deserved it and he really looked like a 1st class jerk

[CROW]

in all fairness, i have seen many many gringos in Medellin dating multiple girls without the girl knowing that her novio is a dirt bag and is dating on the side. eventually, these stupid gringos get caught and end up with a bad reputation.  Medellin is a fairly big city, but not that big and you always seem to run into somebody someplace that either knows you personally, or indirectly.

hell, i know a guy who was at a restaurant with friends and a date at a table, his novia didn't even know he was in Medellin, until one of her friends friend saw him and took a cell phone photo of him and sent it to her. it was not a pretty site when she got to the restaurant and  started screaming at him and calling him names in front of everybody. wow what a scene that was, but he deserved it and he really looked like a 1st class jerk

Is not dating more than one woman at a time part of the wife-hunter's creed?

 I think some of you guys need to put your balls back on when you leave the US otherwise you are  setting yourself up to being used and abused. Promising marriage, fidelity and god only knows what kind of material goods to attract and keep these business like Paisas is a fools game if you ask me.

I usually date three or so women at a time here in Cali when I'm on the market....for the most part calenas don't seem to think you are their exclusive property unless you live with them and they usually never ask if you are seeing someone else. It is kind of a don't ask don't tell policy around here.

I have seen a couple of overly honest gringos that against my advice felt it was their duty to inform their calena girlfriends that they were seeing other women. The look on their face was priceless...not really angry or hurt but rather surprised and ultimately insulted. I guess they didn't see or appreciate the unnecessary revelation and most thought they were being dumped.

I stopped asking calenas that I date here if they have a boyfriend because even if they do they'll lie and say no9 if they really want to go out with you) or give you my personal favorite "Yes, but we are fighting right now".

I have heard that one so many times that every time I have a fight with a girlfriend of mine here.... I tell her that doesn't give her the right to go out and [snip] some other guy. jajaja

When I read these posts and complaints about these women I really can't help but feel that it is mostly the fault of the wife-hunters because you guys are really trying to circumvent the whole dating process and getting to know someone and going straight for committed relationship and marriage.

You love sick souls are getting way to emotionally and financially invested in these women way to fast if you ask me.

Where a normal guy might find out the girl he is dating is seeing someone else and be a little disillusioned that he and the women were not on the same page and didn't have the same level of interest in one another......some of you guys are devastated and emotionally scared for life. LOL!!!

I have found out that some of the girls I was dating here were seeing other guys....and I never felt I had the right to complain because I wasn't financially invested and why look a gift horse in the mouth? If you really want an exclusive relationship you can up the ante and let them move in or support them.

My current girlfriend had a gringo boyfriend when we met....she didn't dump him completely until I told her she can move in.....a year and a half later my girlfriend still shows me emails from this poor soul offering to marry her and bring her to the states....I used to think the guy was an idiot but now I just feel sorry for the guy.

[william3rd]

You will not use it in court. It just cancels her ticket, or visa, for herself.

What is this clap about leadership? If you got the goods,, the only leading you will be doing is out the door!!!

If your gf is showing the signs of cheating, prove it up.

[Researcher]

Is not dating more than one woman at a time part of the wife-hunter's creed?

 I think some of you guys need to put your balls back on when you leave the US otherwise you are  setting yourself up to being used and abused. Promising marriage, fidelity and god only knows what kind of material goods to attract and keep these business like Paisas is a fools game if you ask me.

I usually date three or so women at a time here in Cali when I'm on the market....for the most part calenas don't seem to think you are their exclusive property unless you live with them and they usually never ask if you are seeing someone else. It is kind of a don't ask don't tell policy around here.

I have seen a couple of overly honest gringos that against my advice felt it was their duty to inform their calena girlfriends that they were seeing other women. The look on their face was priceless...not really angry or hurt but rather surprised and ultimately insulted. I guess they didn't see or appreciate the unnecessary revelation and most thought they were being dumped.

I stopped asking calenas that I date here if they have a boyfriend because even if they do they'll lie and say no9 if they really want to go out with you) or give you my personal favorite "Yes, but we are fighting right now".

I have heard that one so many times that every time I have a fight with a girlfriend of mine here.... I tell her that doesn't give her the right to go out and [snip] some other guy. jajaja

When I read these posts and complaints about these women I really can't help but feel that it is mostly the fault of the wife-hunters because you guys are really trying to circumvent the whole dating process and getting to know someone and going straight for committed relationship and marriage.

You love sick souls are getting way to emotionally and financially invested in these women way to fast if you ask me.

Where a normal guy might find out the girl he is dating is seeing someone else and be a little disillusioned that he and the women were not on the same page and didn't have the same level of interest in one another......some of you guys are devastated and emotionally scared for life. LOL!!!

I have found out that some of the girls I was dating here were seeing other guys....and I never felt I had the right to complain because I wasn't financially invested and why look a gift horse in the mouth? If you really want an exclusive relationship you can up the ante and let them move in or support them.

My current girlfriend had a gringo boyfriend when we met....she didn't dump him completely until I told her she can move in.....a year and a half later my girlfriend still shows me emails from this poor soul offering to marry her and bring her to the states....I used to think the guy was an idiot but now I just feel sorry for the guy.

   I agree with alot that you said here CROW but I thought the subject was  a woman taking a few gringos for a ride by pretending to be interested in them and getting money from them, not dating in general.Basically it is more of an outright scam than anything.Maybe I missed something I don't know.

  Researcher

[CROW]

  I agree with alot that you said here CROW but I thought the subject was  a woman taking a few gringos for a ride by pretending to be interested in them and getting money from them, not dating in general.Basically it is more of an outright scam than anything.Maybe I missed something I don't know.

  Researcher

Seems to me that there is a recurring theme on this board of guys having all kinds of problems with colombianas. Not just on this thread but Luisa or Claudia? and No luck on Colombian Sites and that is just on the first page here. I can't remember how many I have read since I joined.

It has been my experience that colombianas are the nicest women to meet, date and make love to on the planet and just thought that it might be worth pointing out that this focus on marriage the moment you meet a woman might be the source of a lot of their problems.

If anything I'd like to see the emails of the wife hunters on the board.....if they are anything like the poor slob that keeps writing my girlfriend telling her (or bribing her on) how he would marry her and take her to the states for a better life then we would all know where the problem lies. LOL!!

But what do I know....carry on wife hunters...jajaja