Total Costs

[Godzilla]

Can you guys weigh in on what the total costs are from the time you book your plane ticket until you get your bride to be over here and then any other costs in the couple of years that follow for completion of status. K1 VS. Cr-1?

Probably going to rob my 401k and start over again to do this, but what the hell the economic crash already cost me as much. At least I will be happy with someone while I start over.

Would like to hear an average and a best case worst case scenario.

Thanks.

[thekfc]

There is no "magic" cost.
The cost depends on you - How much you want to spend, how thrifty or extravagant you are, etc.

There are a few necessary cost involve (airplane tickets, visa, application, wedding, etc). So these you can factor in and make an estimation. But remember it is NOT an upfront cost, it is a cost you incur over time.

At first I was worried at the cost but now, I do not even think about it, I do not even "count".
From the top of my head:
I have taken 2 flights so far - about $2500/RT for both  NYC / MNL.
Wedding/Honeymoon  - for me around $2000 - I am not sure of the exact figure but around that area.
Gifts - I do not count the cost of gifts, to me they are "priceless".
Communication - Free to $60.

To me, there is no average cost, everyone will give you a different figure. It depends on how you go about it, how much you want to spend, & how "smart" you are with your money.

[z_k_g]

Can you guys weigh in on what the total costs are from the time you book your plane ticket until you get your bride to be over here and then any other costs in the couple of years that follow for completion of status. K1 VS. Cr-1?

Gz, this is for the RP, not sure about totals but here are some costs that you should consider as you get started:

1. Website membership costs- Free to $50 per month
2. Communications- Free(yahoo) to $50 per month for cafe or cell phone loads
3. Shipping Costs- $15 for small package to $35+ for large or express delivery

The archives are loaded with cost data for plane fare, visas etc.

Good luck on finding the perfect pinay!

Zulu

[Capstone]

Godzilla,

Like KFC & Zulu have already said there is no 'average' cost for the process of bringing your girl over. The bulk of your expenses of course will be for the trips that you will need to take to the Philippines - and since all of us have different travel tastes, likes, dislikes, etc these travel expenses can vary greatly from person to person.

But to give you an idea of the costs involved in petitioning & applying for the K-1 and CR-1 visas, here is a breakdown of those costs:

 

K-1
I-129F Petition Fee: $455
Consulate Visa Application Fee: $350
Adjustment of Status: $1010
Total: $1815

CR-1
I-130 Petition Fee: $355
NVC I-864: $70
NVC Visa Fee: $400 ($355+$45)
Total: $825

Your girl will also be required to have a medical examination done and probably some vaccinations as well - these costs vary depending on which medical facility is used for those.

The choice of rather to go the K-1 or CR-1 route is a personal matter of which there is no 'better' way to go for all cases. The best thing to do would be to map out your and your girl's priorities and then make a determination from there. Going the CR-1 route requires that you marry your girl before bringing her over but this can have some major advantages if your girl would like to have a nice wedding because the costs of a wedding would be significantly less in the PI than in the US - plus there is the added advantage of your girl being able to get married in front of all her friends & family.

[fathertime]

Can you guys weigh in on what the total costs are from the time you book your plane ticket until you get your bride to be over here and then any other costs in the couple of years that follow for completion of status. K1 VS. Cr-1?

Probably going to rob my 401k and start over again to do this, but what the hell the economic crash already cost me as much. At least I will be happy with someone while I start over.

Would like to hear an average and a best case worst case scenario.

Thanks.

i think it is a good call to rob the 401k, live life for NOW.
from start to finish IF you find a woman quickly I bet you will be in 15-20k assuming at least 2 trips to a foreign land plus all the visa costs and all the misc. bs that always pops up. factor in airline tickets, fun, maybe even wedding costs...

it could be more if you don't find a suitable woman in the first couple trips.

Fathertime!

[Bob_S]

Costs vary depending on tastes.  Some guys who travel are comfortable living like the locals, eating fish they caught themselves and sleeping in a nipa hut.  Others like to stay in Western hotels with all the creature comforts (like AC, clean water).
So I would say, ballpark, costs can run you about 10 grand, plus or minus, spread out over 1 or 2 years.  If you ignore red flags and crash and burn with a bad one, count yourself lucky if it only costs you 10 grand to get out of it.  Then you have to start your search again for another budgeted $10k over another 1 or 2 years.  Completely do-able for an average income guy with no dependents and no big expensive hobbies.  (Basically, international courting becomes your big expensive hobby.)

[Ray]

I would figure somewhere around $150-$200 per pound...   

Ray

[robert angel]

Ten grand seems doable for getting through courtship, USCIS paperwork, and you might be able to include airfare for two RT trips for you to see her (wise) in there and a one way ticket to get her into your arms. Hopefully one way.


This is based on 'low to moderate' expenditures. Even in the least expensive areas of the Philippines, you can spend a whole lot more than that on high end hotels, meals, resort trips, etc.

OK--you wanted the 'best and worse' expenditure figures. I've written a bit about relatively short term costs, but I think every guy in your shoes should also read about possible 'long term costs' in a worse case scenario:

If she comes and the first year, hell the first five or ten--it's all possibly the same regardless of time after you're legally married, and you and her decide "Gee--we ought to buy a nicer, bigger house" and you roll, say $75,000 of equity you've built up over the years from the house you're in now, into the new house and then it appreciates another $25,000 in value, that might leave you feeling peachy keen wonderful.

What might not seem so wonderful is if after you're done 'playing house' for a while and she falls out of love with you, after you find out she wasn't as sweet, honest and innocent as you thought, that life in the materialistic USA has dramatically changed her and/or she falls in with a bad crowd, who gives her 'advice' and she decides she wants a newer, younger and richer dude and files for divorce.

Hopefully, you'll have done your homework, taken the time, found a gal compatible with you for the long term and not married a former Miss Universe who's never worked, but always has perfect clothes and nails and despite only having a high school education, knows how to spell  'Porsche'....

Because if you chose the wrong gal, then she's probably going to get a cool $100,000 from the house if it's worth $200,000-or at least $50,000.

EVEN if by some unlikely chance she says 'Honey--it's OK to keep the new house in your name" she'll almost certainly still get half of all that, plus the car you bought her, and half the value of anything you've purchased electronics, jewelry, etc., etc., or any profits from investments, retirement accounts that you (and she) may have made since you married. Your Uncle died after you married and he left you a million dollars? She just became eligible for at least half a million dollars!

Fair that someone could marry you and get half of all that just for marrying you? Half of everything you've worked all your life for?

That's up to you to decide to an extent by how you set things up BEFOREHAND, but still, it's pretty much decided by the way the law's going to cut it, and Judges have an incredible amount of flexibility in their findings--in their decision making and if it's not half of everything, it can be even MORE.

The Judge can look at that pretty little girl who has little or no career experience here and relatively little income compared to what your ugly old perv ass is making and decide she deserves MORE--plus alimony every month until you've paid for her college--vocational education and she's making some real money, comparable to what standard she was able to afford while with you.

After all--you took her from a tropical paradise and have probably had more than your share of fun from her, the Judge may decide--and decide it's her turn for some fun and liberty.

If you're lucky and years later, she has an income that begins to approximate what she had with you, then go can go get a lawyer, pay him all over again to try and stop or reduce the money you're legally required to pay her, because if you stop paying her otherwise, they'll start by taking away your driver's license, making your getting to work somewhat of a problem.

I've seen women who realized they could live quite well on such an arrangement and instead of  getting a college degree or vocation or marrying the newer, younger and richer guy, just moved in with the guy, even had children with him and the guy who brought her over here still had to keep paying her all the same. Sweet, eh?

I'm not wealthy--not a millionaire--far from it, but I advise that you buy a house or cars before you get married. If it seems like 'forever' you can always put that stuff in both your names. If something happens to me--if I get disabled or hit by a truck tomorrow and die, my wife's finances are in very good shape, I've seen to that.

If I suddenly passed away, just from insurance and what the court would finally decide on, she'd probably get between 2 and 3 hundred grand, and be back in the Philippines in six months, with a Jolibees franchise or two, with all her relatives as trusted employees.

Meanwhile, I'm still worth more to her alive than dead, and for the long haul, hopefully.

In the end--with no arrangements in place--probate court will divide your assets and they usually are somewhat fair if you have children and other dependants, family members, etc.

But I've also seen to it that my two son's interests are taken care of too and that if in a worse case scenario, she wants a divorce, that my losses, while still financially significant, are minimized by actions I made before hand--really by actions I deliberately avoided making, namely by ones I didn't choose to do, like us not buying a big expensive house  and cars, like I see so many guys doing not so long after they marry their 2nd or 3rd wife.

A lot of what I've described above could happen to a guy who marries a woman from the USA as well, but bringing in someone from overseas,after you've already got established home equity and she has very little in ways of asssets and income from any career, can really come back to bite you.

Total costs? Hopefully in the 10K range, but ultimately, YOUR mileage may vary.

BTW, I wouldn't recommend dipping into your retirement account/s if you're lucky enough to have that option, to finance your romantic exploration costs. The govt. is very cruel financially to those who withdraw funds from their retirement accounts early and you may lose as much or more than you did in recent economic downturns.  And as to 401K retirement accounts, those are divided in divorce court down the middle easier than any other retirement account--like putting a red hot knife through soft butter. Believe me--I've been there...

So you guys all punch drunk in lovey dovey land, wipe some of those stars out of your eyes for a while and try and cover as many options wisely before hand. Things can be done beforehand and you can always change the terms later on.

I wish you all the happiness in the world, but I suggest you also prepare for what might possibly happen--'just in case'.

[thekfc]

For a minute there I thought that I was reading one of jm21-2 post.
I had to go back to make sure it was big brother Robert posting.

[Ray]

Your Uncle died after you married and he left you a million dollars? She just became eligible for at least half a million dollars!

Wrong! An inheritance is not community property (as long as you keep it separate).

The govt. is very cruel financially to those who withdraw funds from their retirement accounts early...

But you can take out a loan from your 401K with no penaalty, as long as you still work there.

Ray

[piglett]

I'm out about $4300 which covered the church wedding & my air fare.

which country will you be going to big "G"

piglett


Oh also would you borrow money at 40% interest ??
if you remove cash from your 401k that is what it will end up costing you

[bcc_1_2]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfcKMid2-tA

Listen to the crazy lesbo. Don't mess with your 401k.

Costs are going to vary a lot person to person. Someone living in Texas driving down to Mexico is spending a lot less to get there than somebody flying out of a regional airport in the midwest to get to Cebu City. Regional Airport to Denver to Los Angeles, to Hong Kong to Manila, to Cebu might cost $2000 to make a trip like that just for airfare.

Now if you lived in chicago a flew to Bogota on Spirit for $250 round trip... well you see the difference.

Plus with hotels... do you need a $150 a night room? Especially in Latin America there are some hostels that have private rooms for $20 to $30 a night. Lots of these hostels are in the right part of town and are clean. Asia has wide ranges of pricing as well in that regard.

Capstones numbers look right on the K1.

[Dave H]

i think it is a good call to rob the 401k, live life for NOW.
Fathertime!

I am with you Fathertime! Watching money rotting away in a 401k can't compare to real happiness!

My round trip airfare from Florida- LA-Manila- Mindanao averages about $1400, depending on the date and other factors. Several open date (6 months and 1 year) tickets drove my average airfare costs up). Costs very with countries and areas within. A several week stay can be quite low...from next to nothing (staying at her place in the bundok and helping harvest the food) to several thousand dollars. On the high end...there are no limits!

Good luck!

Dave

[Dave H]

Now if you lived in chicago a flew to Bogota on Spirit for $250 round trip... well you see the difference.

That's cheap! I used to fly for free on cargo planes out of Miami...but think I would rather much splurge and spend $250 and get a real seat, not a McArthur Dairy milk crate! 

Dave

[Jeff S]

Also wrong that she gets half of the house and alimony if she walks, unless you do something really dumb. So if your house went from being worth $200K when you were married to $250K when she walked, she is entitled to $25K, not $125K. Consult an attorney.

It's also not true, at least in California, that the judge can look at her and decide she deserves big alimony because you, the evil rat bastard, trafficked this poor little teenage sweet thing. It's all done by formula and if you've been married less than 5 years, both are healthy and able to work, the number is  most likely zero.

[william3rd]

Those property items that were owned before the marriage are separate as are those items received by will, gift or devise. A separate property house where she is not placed on title is yours. There may be some credits to her.  Spousal support is done by the dissomaster for temporary support. Permanent support in California is handled by FC 4320 factors. You may have to have a trial to get there. If you are a high wage earner, then all bets are off. The Court can not give your separate property to you unless you are found to be hiding community property assets.

Specific questions get specific answers.

Prenups are nice; however, most attorneys wont do prenups because of the high chance of malpractice due merely to the passage of time.

[jm21-2]

For me:

Trip to meet with Chinese girl (didn't work out): ~$3,000
Trip to Thailand to meet now-fiance: ~$2,500
Trip to Taiwan to meet now-fiance and family: ~$2,000
Fiance visa fees: ~$1,800
Airfare from Taiwan to US: ~$600
Car when she gets here: ~$5,000+
Buying winter clothes:
Tiny wedding (no rings, just family):
Honeymoon: ~$2,500-3,000

So somewhere around $17-18k over the course of a bit more than a year, provided everything works out well for the visa. Then the cost of supporting her here at least for a year or two probably. I'm estimating it will be at least $7,200 per year to support her, but off-set by a tax savings of a couple grand.

Trip costs are not counting the value of vacation time. I'm self-employed and probably lost about $750-1,000 in business expenses for each trip. Also, my fiance split the hotel fees and paid her own bill at restaurants. Also had a car in Taiwan and paid the fuel costs.

It's a lot of money potentially. I really need to replace my car but am putting that off. Will probably have to take a very short-term car loan for her car. First debt of my life outside student loans.

If you find a conservative marriage-minded girl and suggest or even wonder out loud about a pre-nup, you may not get the best reaction. Speaking from experience.

I own my own house so if our marriage broke down in the first 5 years or so I'd probably be out her car and some temporary maintenance to get her on her feet.

EDIT:
After looking at car prices I'm upping the cost to ~$7,500. That extra 2.5k gets you a much better car.
Saw a Mercedes SLK that I'd really like to buy but guess I need to hold off....sigh...

[robert angel]

Re:

>>But you can take out a loan from your 401K with no penalty, as long as you still work there.<<

I still wouldn't advise it. I know things have changed and to an extent, all the old rules of wisdom aren't as applicable as they once were, but I'd leave my 401K alone and I wouldn't advise anyone to open one up (a 401K) unless it was clearly the best, or only retirement option.

In the crash of 1987, I think it was, I saw the money in my 401K take an incredible dump and I stopped contributing, basically pulling out, when I should've dumped everything I could back into it. The market had bottomed out and boy, did it eventually roar back and I was left on the sidelines. 20-20 vision, looking back, of course......

If I stayed at that place of employment and kept contributing, I'd be looking at retiring soon, instead of more like in seven years, as I am now.


We're not as much at the bottom as we were (close though) regarding where the people who run those 401Ks invest the money, but there's still (hopefully) a lot of upside yet. I know there's a lot of naysayers saying--'no--it'll never come back', but the real big fish are out there, bottom fishing and picking up choice stocks on the cheap.

More than a few of us wish we bought into the likes of General Electric, Alcoa Aluminum and Google not so long ago, to name but a few, and I don't see those companies disappearing anytime soon. Impossible that they won't flounder terribly? No--look at General Motors.

I am not a big proponent of borrowing in this market and overall economy and even less so to finance 10 or 20 grand in finding a good wife.

"To each his own"

[fathertime]

I am with you Fathertime! Watching money rotting away in a 401k can't compare to real happiness!

 
Dave

that is my feeling to Dave.  Whether it makes perfect financial sense is not that relevant when a person is solo and without any other way to find the money to take the trips.  I'd rather live life a little more adventurously.   

I wouldn't want to be a  person that is living off of his SS and 401k and realize that I am solo because I was too afraid to take a chance and travel when I was young/healthy and able to find a good woman/wife.  A significant % of people are dead or disabled by the time they hit retirement age, screw that, if there are no other options pull the 401k money and go for the young beautiful wife before you need an oxygen tank during sex!

Fathertime!

[Godzilla]

Thanks to all for you helpful advice. As the saying goes I am not a rich man, I'm a truck driver. I had started a search for a Filipina bride several years ago before my sister who is disabled was divorced and I was the only one willing to support her financially. All I had went to that, including robbing the 401K twice before to replace cars she, ah, wrecked  So the 401k is all I have and I agree with Piglett on that matter. Happiness now, and build a future together with my future wife.

I am going to be careful in my search, I think I learned a few things from my last search. I just started talking to a nice lady in Cebu who works in production building computer parts. I am 47 she is 34. I am definitely not looking for the 20 year old virgin beauty queen goddess.  I like to say that I am looking for someone to grow old WITH me.

As for the 401K there is only about 14K in there now, that's why I thought it would be perfect to fund my expedition in romance and happiness. It's not a huge sum and won't take all that long to replace. I'm not getting any younger and have been alone for a long time so that's my motivation. I guess I better do it right the first time though. If it does end in divorce I probably wouldn't be able to afford it again. 

35 was about the bottom range I was looking for so she only fell 1 year under the radar. So far she is the only one I have chatted with but I like her. Still looking and keeping an open mind tho.

Thanks all.

[thekfc]

Something else to consider beside the cost is the time factor. I am sure you know about that but for any "newbie" who is reading this post, consider the time that you will have to invest - the "search", chatting, visitation (s)  & afterwards (marriage, etc). 

I have made 2 visits to Manila - both were great. The first I stayed in a rented house about a block from where my wife (then fiancee) lived & the 2nd visit, I stayed at her place thus there was no rental cost involved. I would love to make a 3rd visit before she comes to NYC but time is not on my side. I have NO vacation time left for the year & my next vacation cycle do not start until June (at my job - our vacation cycle goes by our hired/anniversary date & not the calendar year). I have a lot of personal/sick days left (I haven't used any) and I want to use them for when she comes.

I have seen some airfares - RT NYC to Manila for around/under $1000. For the East Coast to Manila, with only 1 stopover, either being HK, Narita or South Korea - that is great. Now most of these fares are gone plus I do not have any vacation time left. 

[Ray]

zilla,

On the 401k thing…

You probably already know how this stuff works, so this is also for Robert’s information.

I am assuming that your previous withdrawals were 401k loans and not early withdrawals. Usually, your plan administrator will let you borrow up to 50% of your balance at a very low interest rate and there is no tax or penalty involved as in an early withdrawal.

The danger comes in when and if you get laid off or leave your job. Then you must pay off the loan in full within a couple of months or face the tax and penalties of an early withdrawal.

If you are still paying off previous 401k loans, you may not be allowed to borrow any more yet, or only a lesser amount. I would talk with your HR people and get all the facts first.

I’m with Dave H and FT on this. If the choice is between keeping your 401k intact until the next stock market crash or finding a nice Filipina wife, I would take the latter. If you listen to Robert, you’re likely to end up a lonely old man. If Robert’s wife ever dumps him, she will likely get half of that 401k that he is so protective of, if the stock market doesn’t get it first.   

Ray

[Jhengsman]

If you are using tax advantaged retirement savings to finance this then you are not yet in position to go this route. You will probably not be in the Philippines with family caring for you when you get old.

Don't take that $7K, after taxes and fees, from your retirement take this year while you are on the internet and build that $10K courting fund.

Edit to add:
Remember this is the beginning and she probably will not work for a while plus she probably will still be child bearing age with a clicking clock and my take of the culture is that being a single mother is better then being an old maid