Luisa or Claudia?

[fathertime]

If you just need visa, immigration info, green card, etc. you can get that anywhere.

This site offers a great free assistance to expedite and save bucks, but most other avenues can do the same thing!  Hundreds of websites do this and do as good as or better job than P-L (Some for cost however)

The value of the P-L forum is in the peer review of the relationships- choices, mistakes, red flags, train wrecks, and how to not make mistakes in your choice of a future bride.  This is what makes P-L a jewel-  The archives and the real time advice of the member posters.

If you are in a hurry, whats the use of P-L?

Do your quickie- Pick your babe, go to a spousal visa website, check on your budgets, plane tickets, etc, get married, get her finalized and live unhappily ever after   (joke)

I don't see the need of spending weeks posting and getting guys opinions if you are looking for the quickie, seems like a waste of time if you are in a hurry.

If i was in a hurry, spending precious time on P-L posting, reading Robert long ass replies (love ya Angel) wouldn't make a bit of sense.  I wouldn't do it, period.

That's my point.

Zulu

Zulu,

If a person wants to move quickly, he can still benefit from reading the archives and analzying the experiences of those that went before him.    The poster can choose the path he wants partially based on the experiences he has read about. 

  I don’t know that ‘peer review’ of relationships is all that big a benefit on the general forum.  Many men realize they are the closest to their situation and don’t put their relationship up for general review.  I don’t recall you putting yours up for review.  Many times after a man has already made his decision he wants confirmation that it was the right one.   

For various personal reasons, there are many PL members that have moved fast and also found use for the info on this website, myself included.  For me, moving fast was proposing marriage after a mere 3 months and two trips to Colombia.  For better or for worse many people are comfortable taking a version of this route.

Fathertime!

[z_k_g]

Zulu,

If a person wants to move quickly, he can still benefit from reading the archives and analzying the experiences of those that went before him.    The poster can choose the path he wants partially based on the experiences he has read about.  

Reading and analyzing years of posts takes time, if I'm in a hurry, I just am not gonna take the hours to sift through posts.

 I don’t know that ‘peer review’ of relationships is all that big a benefit on the general forum.  Many men realize they are the closest to their situation and don’t put their relationship up for general review.  I don’t recall you putting yours up for review.  Many times after a man has already made his decision he wants confirmation that it was the right one.  

I spent 2 solid months reading posts on P-L.  I used that knowledge to pick wisely and that took another 3 months.

I chose a single pinay, and I am just at step 1 with no issues, except some general cultural things, which I did bring to the forum to discuss, read some of my posts.

When I hit a brick wall, I'll call up the P-L troops.  You may not recall those posts because there were no train-wrecks.

That 5 months of preparation and selection was invaluable.

For various personal reasons, there are many PL members that have moved fast and also found use for the info on this website, myself included.  For me, moving fast was proposing marriage after a mere 3 months and two trips to Colombia.  For better or for worse many people are comfortable taking a version of this route.

I just think that's awesome, but i err on the side of caution.  I've done the 3 month thing before and I would not go that route again.

Maybe I overstated when I said they don't need P-L.  

I'll restate that by saying that, If you are in a hurry, "git er done", then then will not get the full benefit of the P-L forum.  

We should agree to disagree FT.

Zulu

[fathertime]

We should agree to disagree FT.

Zulu

I think we have already agreed to disagree on the issue of whether it is always a good strategy to move fast or slow.

The issue here was the addendum you added that stated that the fictional people moving fast also don't need the information on PL because they were of the mindset ‘get er done’.  It appears you are modifying your statement, to this:

Maybe I overstated when I said they don't need P-L.   

I'll restate that by saying that, If you are in a hurry, "git er done", then then will not get the full benefit of the P-L forum. 

 This statement might be true (depending on the individual), so I won’t challenge the updated statement.   

Fathertime!

[CROW]

The above described scenario plays itself out countless times all over the world, with women wanting entry into the USA  any which way they can get it. A lot of guys get used and burned badly in the process and a lot of guys do girls wrong, lead them on and dump them, leaving the girls really pissed and they 'act out' and a lot of times, their friends follow suit.

It's like did the chicken come first or the egg? There's the players and the played and they're of both sexes and in all countries.

The only way you 'possibly' avoid this--or better to say 'lessen your chances' of getting burned, is not to rush right in and not to be blinded to the point of making rash, stupid decisions because you're focused on how hot looking, how sizzling the sex is and how sweet she is to you--for now anyway....

Said it before and I'll say it again, coming to the USA changes every person who comes here and with foreign women who come here and 'lose their way'--they tended to have a few bad characteristics that became much, much worse after a year or two here and got even worse from there.

Chances are, the guy either was so stupidly smitten with lust and the 'love bug'  to notice or maybe even noticed a bit and didn't weigh the possible consequences down the line.

Never think "Oh--that does bother me a bit, and I don't like her friends, but once I get her back to the states, she'll be fine"--WRONG'


I am not saying "Wait for the PERFECT one"--hell, nobody is perfect. If my wife was 15 years older--that'd make her more perfect and for YEARS before I married her, I struggled with our age gap, but we talked and worked out that issue with each other (I think) and our families many times, over a long period and long engagement and I didn't see any other 'red flags'.

Who knows--that situation may come back to bite me, yet. I was married once before (for 14 years) to a foreigner, went through a very painful, expensive divorce--the worst was that two kids were involved, but it left me cynical and thinking "Never assume anything is FOREVER"

People can and do change--they can grow apart, or closer to each other, change their priorites and life goals, money issues can raise havoc, etc.--and in the USA--those are all perfectly acceptable reasons for a divorce--unlike in most foreign countries...

Time, time, time  is the only insurance and is still no guarantee!

You can judge (hate that word, but it fits) someone by how their family is and a poor woman's family can easily have more morals and 'true' class than a rich woman's.

If you pay attention and take the time, you can learn a lot by getting an idea of how loose and dishonest, bad mannerd, etc that the friends the woman socializes with are.

I am basically wasting my words here, because probably more than 95% of the guys here are just going to act like a bird dog and when a hottie comes along who seems to treat him oh so good, he'll rush in and figure it'll save him several expensive trips back to her home country by starting on the paperwork pronto.  

Most of the time, he won't even think he's moving too fast until it's too late--he'll go with his 'gut instinct'--which is also driven by his libido a lot of the time.  The reality is that acting like that may end up costing a lot more--both monetarily and emotionally...

Listen, I don't want to beat up you wife hunters too much but most of the posts on this thread are misleading including this very nice one above....so it looks like I'm going to have to give you guys a reality check. jajaja

Any guy that goes down to Colombia with the expressed single minded purpose of finding a wife is kind of desperate to begin with....any guy that proposes marriage to a colombiana that he has spent less than a month face time with is really really desperate and the woman that accepts such a proposal is just as bad off...if not emotionally....certainly financially.

Sure the idea of holding off a bit and waiting before rushing in to a marriage with someone you hardly know seems like a good idea. But this whole idea of waiting to see if she flakes on you might give some guys the idea that if she doesn't that she is some how the right one. LOL!!!

The idea that if you wait  or if the chica isn't that hottest thing to look at will some how increase your chances of a life long marriage is just plain stupid in my book. Because very, very few of you are every going to spend enough face time and bed time with these women to ever even think about making a logical choice. At most you can only hope to weed out the complete wackos. LOL!!

My advice is to you guys is "nut up" and realize you are taking a big gamble and go for the chick that really blows your mind in bed so at least you can get some enjoyment out of this endeavor.

On a bright note....I never under estimate the what two desperate people can accomplish once they get together...so some of these marriages can and do work out in the end.

Waiting in a long distance relationship and not going for the hottest thing in high heels might increase your odds of success by about 3 or 4 percent. If you want to increase your odds by 20 percent take my advice. Date women that are looking for love and not marriage per say....women here that will marry someone at the drop of a hat are just looking for a meal ticket....seems like common sense but I think in this situation it needed to be said.

Seems to me that you guys that really spend so little time down here with your women that you probably really should go for the one that is the hottest in bed....I really don't know what more can be gleaned with such little face time except that you are both sexually attracted to each other and that you can satisfy each other in the bedroom.

[fathertime]

Although I don't agree with all that crow says, I sure like his attitude about things!

Fathertime!

[Alabamaboy!]

Crow, what is the longest period of time that the mind blowing sex part has lasted with any of your serious relationships? For me it would have to be about 3 months,  even if you are sleeping with a supermodel. Unless of course you are "rotating the stock".

[robert angel]

I think for almost everyone, the quickest way to put a damper on a red hot sizzling sex life is to marry the gal, sadly enough. It takes work and imagination to keep the heat up there...

[z_k_g]

Any guy that goes down to Colombia with the expressed single minded purpose of finding a wife is kind of desperate to begin with....

That's what this website is all about, which make this point moot.  

Everyone on this website is doing, or has done, or is interested in doing EXACTLY THIS!  Finding a foreign wife.

any guy that proposes marriage to a colombiana that he has spent less than a month face time with is really really desperate and the woman that accepts such a proposal is just as bad off...if not emotionally....certainly financially.

Totally Agree!!!!

Sure the idea of holding off a bit and waiting before rushing in to a marriage with someone you hardly know seems like a good idea. But this whole idea of waiting to see if she flakes on you might give some guys the idea that if she doesn't that she is some how the right one. LOL!!!

Not sure what post or poster you are referring too, but my suggestion is to not marry any woman, wherever in the world you are, quickly.  Those type hook ups rarely make sense, emotionally or financially, too much risk!

I am simply applying that common sense rule to foreign marriages!

As far as "waiting to see if she flakes out", that's pretty impractical....she may "flake out" in 10 years, you gonna wait that long!

Taking your time is not about "waiting to see if she flakes out", its about making the right decisions and not taking a major commitment lightly and without thinking through the details, especially if you are marrying a foreign bride.

This may take 6 months for some and 2 years for others, depending on their circumstances, there is no specific time frame, everyone is different.

As far as choosing a HOT PINAY (my country of choice is Philippines)- that was secondary on my list of importance.  

I'm not desperate or a loser in the USA, I can still pick up young hotties in the US with no problem because of the industry I work in, but, that's not what I'm looking for in a wife.

The woman I chose, look wise and body wise, is not even close to my assistant, and help, in terms of hotness, from my last project.  But those females are Zeros in terms of their potential as a long term mates and future mother to my children.

So...you can make your decisions based on whatever criteria that you choose, its a free country and you can pick your poison.

I choose to pick an attractive woman, with morals, a high work ethic, submissive and respectful to her husband and I will spend as long as it takes to make sure I am picking the right woman. (Hopefully less than 2 years!!)

Zulu

[CROW]

Crow, what is the longest period of time that the mind blowing sex part has lasted with any of your serious relationships? For me it would have to be about 3 months,  even if you are sleeping with a supermodel. Unless of course you are "rotating the stock".

I was married to a woman that still blew me away after 3 years....although she was the hottest chick on the planet at the time. jajaja!!

I get your point...over time you lose interest in doing the same thing over and over again. Of course their are going to have to be other enduring qualities that the woman
must posses and well as qualities that you must have as well to make the relationship go the distance. But these wife hunters don't really have a hope in hell to determine if she has
these qualities in such short face time in a long distance relationship and she isn't going to know if you posses them as well.

I don't see too many but the craziest wife chasers claiming that they actually know their women very well so I don't see an argument on this point.

So my point is are you really willing to marry someone that you don't know all that well and doesn't blow your mind in bed?

I think guys should concentrate on what can be determined reasonably in a short amount of face time and that is do the two of you satisfy each other.

The idea that you can really get to know someone by phone or chatting on the internet is huge load of BS especially in the context of finding wife.

I strongly urge you guys to stop perpetuating this fallacy and own up to the fact that you are all rolling the dice plain and simple....otherwise the whining and crying about bad women
will never stop....and god forbid we start talking about the bone headed men that think this is a sure fire way to find a life long partner. LOL!!!

[CROW]

That's what this website is all about, which make this point moot.  

Everyone on this website is doing, or has done, or is interested in doing EXACTLY THIS!  Finding a foreign wife.
Totally Agree!!!!
Not sure what post or poster you are referring too, but my suggestion is to not marry any woman, wherever in the world you are, quickly.  Those type hook ups rarely make sense, emotionally or financially, too much risk!

I am simply applying that common sense rule to foreign marriages!

As far as "waiting to see if she flakes out", that's pretty impractical....she may "flake out" in 10 years, you gonna wait that long!

Taking your time is not about "waiting to see if she flakes out", its about making the right decisions and not taking a major commitment lightly and without thinking through the details, especially if you are marrying a foreign bride.

This may take 6 months for some and 2 years for others, depending on their circumstances, there is no specific time frame, everyone is different.

As far as choosing a HOT PINAY (my country of choice is Philippines)- that was secondary on my list of importance.  

I'm not desperate or a loser in the USA, I can still pick up young hotties in the US with no problem because of the industry I work in, but, that's not what I'm looking for in a wife.

The woman I chose, look wise and body wise, is not even close to my assistant, and help, in terms of hotness, from my last project.  But those females are Zeros in terms of their potential as a long term mates and future mother to my children.

So...you can make your decisions based on whatever criteria that you choose, its a free country and you can pick your poison.

I choose to pick an attractive woman, with morals, a high work ethic, submissive and respectful to her husband and I will spend as long as it takes to make sure I am picking the right woman. (Hopefully less than 2 years!!)

Zulu

Hey...I'm not trying to tell you guys what to do with your lives.

But it does seem a little strange to me to see guys holding out the prospect of marriage like a carrot and then having the nerve to complain about the women they attract.

All I'm saying is the way you guys are going about finding a wife is not normal.....the months or years that a normal guy would spend with a women is truncated to days and weeks and the idea that you can effectively determine who is wife material and who isn't is just BS you are selling yourselves.

I'd personally feel a lot better and really believe you guys would be a lot happier in the long run if you just owned up to the fact that you are taking a big chance by marrying these women and stop the whining about them. LOL!!!

[fathertime]

     Well zulu, you are quick to agree with Crow’s point and label both the man and woman desperate when they choose to move fast, but then later on go into a long explanation about how you are not desperate.  It would appear that you are just not going to let this point rest, just keep in mind that there is a significant percentage of  ‘desperate’ men on this site that proposed marriage within 30 days of physical face time.   
Crow is certainly entitled to his opinion, my impression is that that he has had years of face time in Colombia so his perspective is coming from a totally different place then us bloated gringos that travel there a few times a year at best.  If I lived in amongst the babes for as long as he seemingly has, I’d probably feel the same way that he does about marriage and those that propose relatively quickly. 

   It is rolling the dice and some of us are not adverse to ‘getting it on’ rather quickly.  Instead of wasting time ‘getting to know’ a woman from 1000’s of miles away.  That is some of the logic behind moving fast, it is not necessarily desperation, it is about not potentially wasting  years (from start to finish) to find out something that can be found out much sooner.

    Now for the record, I couldn’t give a rat’s ass about the rules of the fiancée visa program.  If I wasn’t happy with my woman during that the three month timespan I would have provided an airline ticket home.  Although I had a very good feeling about my woman, I DID at least in part use the three months I had with her to REALLY gauge whether I thought we could mesh together.  If people can’t travel abroad often, I suggest they do the same.  We have 10-15 million illegal aliens in this country, and the govt. wants to us to to use extreme caution when bringing a gal over for marriage.  The govt can kiss my the totality of my ass on that one.  Live life, take a chance.  If you think you have a reasonably good chance of making a relationship work, then go for it and get her over here! If it doesn’t work, well as Meg Tilly said in the movie “Let it Ride”   â€œNothing ventured, nothing ventured”

Fathertime!

[whitey]

All I'm saying is the way you guys are going about finding a wife is not normal.....the months or years that a normal guy would spend with a women is truncated to days and weeks and the idea that you can effectively determine who is wife material and who isn't is just BS you are selling yourselves.

I'd personally feel a lot better and really believe you guys would be a lot happier in the long run if you just owned up to the fact that you are taking a big chance by marrying these women and stop the whining about them. LOL!!!

Hmmm ... kinda sounds like you're lumping us all into the same "one week agency marriage tour" category.

Well, I'll agree with you that doing what we're doing here is NOT "normal" ... very few men will ever make the effort and take the risk to travel to another country, learn a new language and culture, and marry a foreign woman.

But if the process is done thoughtfully and over sufficient time, it's no less risky than marrying the woman next door.

I think constant physical proximity is VERY overrated in getting to know someone.  How much am I going to learn about a woman by sitting next to her on the couch watching tv every night?  For those of us seriously getting to know someone online, because we can't be together physically, we're TALKING for a long time, usually every day.

Hopefully you're talking about your hopes, your dreams, what you want out of life, your morals and beliefs, your family and friends, your expectations for each other, etc, etc.

If that time is used wisely, you can get to know someone really really well.  And if you're doing it over time, you can see how each of you relate to each other over time, whether the relationship is stronger than the distance, how you both handle what life throws at you each day, etc.

In my case, I got to know my wife online for 9 months before I went to see her the first time.  7 more trips and 2 years later we were married.  Not everyone has that much time or needs that much time, but it worked for me.  

To be honest, I don't think I really learned much new about her over the last year.  What it did was confirm that our love was enduring, that neither of us was changing or letting some kind of mask slip, and that she was even better than I imagined.

[mudd]

most of the time i don't agree with CROW and even in this case, some of the things i don't agree with, but he does point out some valid points, and the biggest one is " face time" how in the hell can anybody marry somebody who they have maybe spent a few months together in total in a few short trips.  phones and internet web cams dont even compare to spending time  with her, her friends and her family.

would you marry a girl in your city that you have only spent  a month together?  and don't give me the " oh we are soul mates, we are so close" krap!!!!

most guys are in such a rush to either " get laid" and get married, or on a Budget that they cant make multiple trips, that they are setting themselves up for a future disaster. you think making a few trips is costly, try a divorce. for what i have seen, all the guys i have met over the years who married a girl from Colombia, and got married within a year,  most ended up divorced

[z_k_g]

    Well zulu, you are quick to agree with Crow’s point and label both the man and woman desperate when they choose to move fast, but then later on go into a long explanation about how you are not desperate.  It would appear that you are just not going to let this point rest, just keep in mind that there is a significant percentage of  â€˜desperate’ men on this site that proposed marriage within 30 days of physical face time.  

FT, Actually Marrying a woman after a few months is "desperate" to get married, whether she is American, Colombian, Philippina or from Pluto, that we agree on 100%.  (Marrying and proposing to marry are two different things!)

But the mere fact, you choose to marry a woman from a foreign country, and pursue a long distance relationship, just makes you a guy looking for a foreign marriage option.

If you want a foreign wife, and you don't want the Americanized version,  you have to go where they are, so inherently you will be involved in a long distance relationship.

Zulu

[fathertime]

FT, Actually Marrying a woman after a few months is "desperate" to get married, whether she is American, Colombian, Philippina or from Pluto, that we agree on 100%.  (Marrying and proposing to marry are two different things!)

But the mere fact, you choose to marry a woman from a foreign country, and pursue a long distance relationship, just makes you a guy looking for a foreign marriage option.

If you want a foreign wife, and you don't want the Americanized version,  you have to go where they are, so inherently you will be involved in a long distance relationship.

Zulu

ok zulu my bad you were referring to marrying within 30 days. 

I still don't agree with your labeling though. 

People make the choice to get married for various reasons and don't deserve to be tagged as desperate because their time frame for making important decisions is different then yours or what society at large considers appropriate. 

I imagine there are some people 'desperate' to marry within the group of quick decision makers.  I also have a friend here who dated for 9 years prior to getting married, he was desperate to marry the whole time, but it took him the full 9 years to convince his girlfriend that he was marriageable material.  Two years later they were divorced. What a waste.

Fathertime!

 

[JimD]

Hey...I'm not trying to tell you guys what to do with your lives.

But it does seem a little strange to me to see guys holding out the prospect of marriage like a carrot and then having the nerve to complain about the women they attract.

All I'm saying is the way you guys are going about finding a wife is not normal.....the months or years that a normal guy would spend with a women is truncated to days and weeks and the idea that you can effectively determine who is wife material and who isn't is just BS you are selling yourselves.

I'd personally feel a lot better and really believe you guys would be a lot happier in the long run if you just owned up to the fact that you are taking a big chance by marrying these women and stop the whining about them. LOL!!!

Crow you´re absolutely right, it´s a total crap shoot. However odds the relationship will last a longer time are higher if you marry an older woman who already has several kids to worry about like UC did. If you marry a young hottie and bring her stateside you´re probobly cruisin´for a bruisin´.

[utopiacowboy]

Crow you´re absolutely right, it´s a total crap shoot. However odds the relationship will last a longer time are higher if you marry an older woman who already has several kids to worry about like UC did. If you marry a young hottie and bring her stateside you´re probobly cruisin´for a bruisin´.

Calipro used to point out that a woman in my wife's situation should worship the ground I walked on - which has pretty much been the case.

[z_k_g]

Calipro used to point out that a woman in my wife's situation should worship the ground I walked on - which has pretty much been the case.

Cowboy, your wife is totally HOT (even with kids), so shut up!, you don't qualify to respond!!! 

[z_k_g]

If you marry a young hottie and bring her stateside you´re probobly cruisin´for a bruisin´.

I agree its a total crapshoot. But Jim, Craps is one of the few games where you can get an edge on the house and possibly win!

I will admit that my choice for a pinay was 25 and under, a young woman who wants kids and is family oriented.  I feel your "cruisin for a bruisin" statement does not apply to Pinays. 

For Latinas, a higher possibility, but just depends on the woman!

My advice, bring loaded dice!!

Zulu

[fathertime]

I agree its a total crapshoot. But Jim, Craps is one of the few games where you can get an edge on the house and possibly win!

Zulu

Well Zulu, let me make a slight correction here.  Craps is NOT one of those few games you can get a slight edge on the house with, although I wish it was because I love playing the game.   The games you speak of involve cards and keeping track of them. Although when played correctly, the house advantage in craps is about as low as it gets. 
Poker is about the only game that a player can win at fairly consistently.

Fathertime! 

[Researcher]

I imagine there are some people 'desperate' to marry within the group of quick decision makers.  I also have a friend here who dated for 9 years prior to getting married, he was desperate to marry the whole time, but it took him the full 9 years to convince his girlfriend that he was marriageable material.  Two years later they were divorced. What a waste.

Fathertime!

      I once saw a study that said people who were together 2 years before marriage had the best success rate.The ones who married quickly didn't last any longer than those who spent many years together.The above quote is a perfect example.

     But for me it comes down to one thing.How comfortable you feel marrying someone.Risk is always involved with marriage but it doesn't have to be a total crap shoot.IMO, you can get to know someone from a distance but not as well as spending face time with them.Then there is only so much you can learn from that.The rest is learned and dealt with after marriage anyway.When you wake up next to someone everyday that you are financially,legally and emotionally tied to, then you really get to know them.IMO, this is a process to be taken a step at a time and I wouldn't move to the next step until I was comfortable with the risks involved.



     Researcher